Chet Ogan

Raymond, Thank you for finding this document. The bann is the promise or announcement of a future pending marriage. It appears in this case that the bann precedes the marriage by three months. I would have to look at the laws of Massachusetts to see whether this is prescribed by laws of the times. As a search term, into Google I entered "banns vs marriage"

From Wikipedia: "The purpose of banns is to enable anyone to raise any canonical or civil legal impediments to the marriage, so as to prevent marriages that are invalid. Impediments vary between legal jurisdictions, but would normally include a pre-existing marriage that has been neither dissolved nor annulled, a vow of celibacy, lack of consent, or the couple's being related within the prohibited degrees of kinship." It also allows the parties a period of time, in this case three months, to determine whether they are compatible and their relationship is true and not just a fling of passion. In modern marriages the wedding official will ask the audience whether there is anyone who knows why the marriage vows should not continue or forever hold their peace. I think we can agree that the marriage date of 21 Jun 1784 still stands. I went by information given to me by our cousins, Cora Linscheid 480 NE 'A' St., Dallas, OR 97338, and Velva Gay (Buker Eller) Dougherty, 14610 SE 43rd St., Bellevue, WA 98006 35 years ago. As for differences in spelling, Buker seems to be accepted now. I have seen Bowker, Buchar (close to the slavic and German pronunciation, with a hard "ch"). I have seen written records interpreted as Baker, perhaps the writer did not close the letter 'a', perhaps the transcriber simply interpreted the spelling as the more familiar "baker". I have a friend, Ralph Bucher, who does not seem to be related who says his family is from Poland, where a Bucher is a family who lives in a wooded area. In James Michener's novel "Poland" a term he uses is, if I remember correctly, "buchar", referring to a woodsman.

According to family tradition an ancient ancestor of the Buker's traveled from Turkey into the heartland of Europe (about 1492) where he settled and established the House of Bucher (Bocker, Bowcher, Boucher, or Buker as we know it today). It is thought this Bucher grandsire settled in Germany. My interpretation is that during the religious persecutions throughout the European Continent, a descendant of this Bucher grandsire took his family to England, from which three of his sons eventually embarked to the colonies in America, one going to New York, and Isreal's grandfather to New England sometime after 1736 and settled near Gray, Cumberland Co., Maine. We do not know where the third brother settled. (This is from Bertha Waters Welker). In 1453 Muhammed II conquered Constantinople, capitol of the Byzantine Empire of Constantine II. The Turks swiftly began to spread Islam toward western Europe, killing all infidels or those who would not convert to Islam. The immigration of the Buker's from eastern Europe to England in 1492 might be related to the fall of the Byzantine Empire and the onslaught of the Byzantine Turks across Eastern Europe. This type of Old Testament philosophy unfortunately still exists as we see with Putin's war in Ukraine.

Chet

Hello Chet,

Can you shed any light on this?

I was just looking at the Massachusetts, U.S., Town and Vital Records, page 536 with reference to the marriage of Israel Hilton Buker and Bathsheba Carver ...and it seems pretty clear they were married 20th of Mar 1874. This seems to be an original hand scribed document. https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/2495/images/40369_263913__0019-00239?pId=10824939

For years I have had it as 21 June 1784. There are many records being cited with the 21 June 1784 date. However, they seem to be compiled after the fact - either typewritten or typeset.

21 Jun 1784 - Massachusetts, U.S., Compiled Birth, Marriage, and Death Records, 1700-1850 for Barsheba Carver, page 67 and 72 https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/246365:61401

21 Jun 1784 - Israel Bucker in the Massachusetts, U.S., Compiled Marriages, 1633-1850 https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/106274:7853?ssrc=pt&tid=60602802&pid=34057847961 Family History Library, Salt Lake City, UT, Film # 0164691

1784 - Israel BOWCKER (see Bowker) in the Massachusetts, U.S., Town Marriage Records, 1620-1850 https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/30618:4079?ssrc=pt&tid=60602802&pid=34057847961

Thanks, Ray Buker

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Hello Chet, hope all is well with you. Do you have anymore information on James Lilly, Lilly-2337, and Ellen Romine, Romine-700. They are my 3rd Great Grandparents and I am looking for any and all information. Thank-you Rodney Long

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Hi Chet,

Thanks for your contributions to our tree.

Could you please take a few moments to review the Sources Help pages as well as the Pre-1700 Quiz for the explanations about what sort of sources WikiTree is looking for with our pre-1700 profiles.

Also - please be careful to check for duplicates before creating your profiles.

Thanks!

Dave

Chet, Hello. I added the category of Rocheport, Missouri, to both James and Betsy Ogan. I had not edited the marriage. Once I saw your post, I did go in and change the marriage location spelling to Boone. I don't know who entered it as Boon, it was that way before I added the Rocheport category.

If you need to edit the marriage information, you open up a person's profile to edit. On the right hand side it lists 'spouse' and then just under that is 'edit marriage'. Click on that to open a new screen with just the marriage information, which can then be edited. If you have any questions, just ask. I am from a small town in Missouri, and I like to add the category of the town name to profiles, which is what I did here. Hope you have a great day!

Thanks for reaching out to me, Chet. Debra K. Ogan (maiden name) is my mother. I've barely begun building out my mother's side of the family but will be getting started soon. I will be looking forward to collaborating!

Thank you Chet for the letter re the Van Gelders. I posted it to the profle.

Regards,

Doug

Hello 9th Cuz 1X. We are related on our Mayflower line! Amazing. Welcome to the FAM. I can take you and your sis to the SB Genealogy library to see the Pilgrim Silver Books if you are interested. Nice meet both of you, Cuz Renee

I've sent you an email Chet. Thanks for contacting me about your Crawford connection and brick wall. I'll do my best to help you find answers.

Greetings, Chet, I believe that there were 2 Thomas Sloans mixed up here. My gr. x 3 Grandfather was Thomas George Sloan. There was also a Thomas James.... they are mixed together here. T. G. is 1817–1894 BIRTH 1817 • Scotland/Ireland DEATH 2 MAY 1894 • Connecticut 3rd great-grandfather He did have a private school and did teach. He married, in 1841: Jane Earle Paton 1827–1901 BIRTH 17 NOV 1827 • New York, United States DEATH 2 SEP 1901 • New Haven, Connecticut 3rd great-grandmother THOMAS GEORGE SLOAN WAS A REAL ESTATE BROKER. HE DID NOT DESIGN OR MANUFACTURE HARDWARE. I have info. about the Sloans on Ancestry.com I have photos of my Gr.x 3 portraits. I MET WITH THIS CONFUSION MYSELF SEVERAL YEARS AGO. [email address removed]

Those offices,etc for Richard Taylor came from Yarmouth chronicles. I'll look for those when I get time. We don't have good library resources here, I may have to do an interlibrary loan.

Hi Chet, saw you made some changes to Taylor-287. You inadvertantly deleted the entire narrative. I restored the narrative and also added the paragraph you'd added about his various elected offices. Could you please provide a source for that information? Thanks.

Hi Chet,

Please check for duplicates before creating new profiles. There are several duplicates in the Marchant/Taylor line.

Thanks,

Dave