Dorothy Ogle (b. 1488/90), was the daughter of:[1] living 09 Sep 1513.[2][3][4][5][6][7]
Ralph, 3rd Baron Ogle (b. abt.1468 - d. Jan 1513)[2]
Margaret Gascoigne (living 16 Jul 1516), dau. of Sir William Gascoigne and Margaret Percy.[2]
Veracity of Data
She is not the daughter of the 5th Baron,[8] but some state Dorothy married Thomas Forster in 1572[9] ... and went on to have 8 children by this first marriage.[10]
That's wrong...
Her dad died before the Battle of Flodden (09 Sep 1513).[5] So even if she was born that same year, it implies she suddenly started having kids at the ripe old (menopausal) age of 59.
Preposterous!
In any case, it's a good thing that the actions of her son Sir John Forster,[11] were well-documented. Although the year of his birth is unknown, it's been estimated around 1520 -- seven years before his father died.[11]
But more importantly, the battles he fought prove that there is NO WAY Dorothy married his father in 1572. For instance ... by November of 1542, John was engaged in the Battle of Solway Moss. And five years later, he was knighted.[11]
In any case, Ogle, (1902) is the authority for Ogle genealogy. He states there is no way Dorothy could be the daughter of Robert, 5th Baron Ogle, and that her father is Ralph, 3rd Baron Ogle[12]. Evidence for Thomas Grey is further supported in the [[Space: Will of Isabelle Gray
|will]] of Dorothy's daughter, Dame Isabell Grey of Ogle Castle.[13]
Some sources conflict when it comes to identifying Dorothy's second husband. Burke (1831), states he's John Grey of Horton,[3] while Parliament, and Ogle (1902) say he's Sir Thomas Grey of Horton (ante.1512 - 05 Aug 1570), who served as Marshall of Berwick.[4] But Burke (1833), later agrees that she married Thomas Grey of Horton,[20] so there was a publishing error at some point.
m.2 (after 1527) Thomas Grey of Horton and Newstead, NBL and Bethnal Green, MX (anti.1512 - 05 Aug 1570)[4]
Margery[26][23] (will 03 Nov 1612, proved: 19 Mar 1613/4)
m. John, son of George Heron of Chipchase and Marion Swinburne
Society for Medieval Genealogy biography of Dorothy (Ogle) Grey
DOROTHY OGLE, m. (1) Sir Thomas Forster, m. (2) Sir THOMAS GREY, kt., of Horton, Northumberland.[30] Thomas, b. by 1515, d. Bethnal Green, Middlesex, 7 Aug. 1570,[31] bur. St. Botolph's without Aldgate, London, 10 Aug. 1570 (‘Sir Thomas Graye Knighte’).[32] He requested to be buried nighe to the sepulture or grave where Sy’r Arthure Darcie lyeth buried.’[33] MP, Northumberland (1553, 1554, and 1558).[34] Co-executor to the will of his father Syr Rog’r Gray Knyght (1540[/1]).[35] He only names two children in his will: Katherine Carre and Isabell wife of Syr Rauffe Grey, with most legacies going to extended family members.[d]
Isabel Grey, m. Sir Ralph Grey, of Chillingham Castle, Northumberland. Ralph, d. 17 Dec. 1564.[37] Legatee in her father’s will. Their son, Sir Ralph Grey (c1552-1623), of Chillingham Castle, held many public offices, including Sheriff of Northumberland (1582-3, 1591-2, 1593-4, 1611-2), and Member of Parliament (1604). Paul Hunneyball writes ‘With a cumulative estate of almost 250,000 acres, he was possibly Northumberland’s richest resident.’[38]
Agnes/Ann Grey, co-heir, m. Robert Clavering, esq., of Callaly Twp., Whittingham Par., Northumberland. Robert, d. betw. 30 Nov. 1582 and 19 Jan. 1582/3, bur. Whittingham (in the church, south side of the quire, next the wall before my wife’s seat), Northumberland.[39]
Margery Grey, m. John Heron
Barbara Grey
Roger Grey
Ursula Grey, m. Humphrey Heron
Margaret Grey, m. betw. 1563 and 1570, John Baxter.
Proof of parentage (1): In 1558, William Harvey, Norroy King of Arms, recorded that ‘Sir Thomas Grey that nowe ys, knight, weddyd Dorothe, doughtre to [crossed out: Roberte] [blank] [sic], and sustre to Roberte, Lord Ogle…’[40]
Proof of parentage (2): In 1563-4, William Flower, Esq., Norroy King of Arms, recorded that ‘Sir Thomas Grey Knight …= Doraty daughter to … Ogle and syster to Robert Lord Ogle.’[41]
Proof of parentage (3): In 1570, for the funeral certificate of Sir Thomas Grey, kt., a herald recorded that ‘sir Thomas Grey married Doraty, daughter to the Lord Ogle.’[42]
Notes
Dorothy, was not the daughter of Margaret Skargill.
↑ 3.03.13.23.33.4 Burke, J. (1831). A general and heraldic dictionary of the peerages of England, Ireland, and Scotland, extinct, dormant, and in abeyance. England. Google Books.
↑ 4.04.14.2 Grey, Sir Thomas I (bef.1512-70), of Horton and Newstead, Northumb. and Bethnal Green, Mdx. HOP. Web.[2]
↑ 5.05.1 Ellis, S.G. (2009). "Region and Frontier in the English State: The English Far North, 1296-1603." Frontiers, Regions and Identities in Europe. Cliohres. Pisa: Plus-Pisa University Press. Web. Accessed 13 Jan 2014. PDF. [3]
↑ Dorothy's father was succeeded by his heir Robert before the Battle of Flodden on 09 Sept 1513. Her youngest son Sir John Ogle was probably born in 1520, so Dorothy is probably b. c. 1480/90s.
Bateson, E. (1893). "Forster of Adderstone," in a History of Northumberland, 1, pp. 228. Google Books.[5]
↑ 8.08.1 Foster, (1891) misidentified Dorothy's parents as Robert, 5th Baron of Ogle and Dorothy Widdrington (due to a typo in Glover's pedigree). While they did have a daughter named Margery ... she married Gregory Ogle of Choppington. The 5th baron's second wife also had a Margerye, but she married Robert Widdrington (p.859).
↑ 9.09.19.2CAUTION: Pierce (1899), states Dorothy married Thomas Forster in 1572.[6]That's WRONG! Wurts (1945), repeats the same error. [7]
↑ 10.010.1 Americana, 1920, 14. NY: Publishing Society of New York. Google Books.
↑ 13.013.1 Raine, J. Greenwell, W., Hogdson, J. C. & Wood, H. M. (1860). "Wills and inventories from the registry at Durham part II." Wills and Inventories Illustrative of the History, Manners, Language, Statistics, &c. of the Northern Counties of England: From the Eleventh Century Downwards, (Vol. 38, pp.). London: Mitchell and Son. Google Books.
↑ 18.018.118.2 Collins, A. (1720). The Baronettage of England, 2, pp.120 - 121. London: W. Taylor. Google Books.
↑ 19.019.119.219.319.419.519.619.7 Foster, J. (1871). A Pedigree of the Forsters and Fosters of the North of England and Some of the Families Connected with them. Archive.org. CAUTION![8]
↑ Burke, J. (1833). The portrait gallery of distinguished females: including beauties of the courts of George IV and William IV. E. Bull. Google Books.
↑ (disputed) Sir John Grey of Horton, Knt. (Burke, 1831)
↑ Brooks (2016), claims that Dorothy had 10 kids with Thomas Grey, (p. 21).
Brooks (2016), asserts that Dorothy and Thos Grey also had children: Catherine, Catherine II (unproven), (p. 21).
Brooks, D.J.B. (2016). Tales of Northumberland Ogles: Their kith and kin. The Ogle Genealogist, 37, pp. 14-24. OOFA. Print.[9]
↑ Sir Henry Asgil Ogle, Ogle and Bothal; or, A History of the Baronies of Ogle, Bothal, and Hepple, and of the Families of Ogle and Bertram, who held Possession of those Baronies and other Property in the County of Northumberland and Elsewhere ...: to Which is added accounts of Several Branch of Families bearing the Name of Ogle Settled in Other Counties ...(Newcastle, 1902), pp. 82a (pedigree), found at FamilySearch; Gary Boyd Roberts, Royal Descents of 900 Colonists, pp. 327-330; see also Gary Boyd Roberts, Royal Descents of 600 Colonists, pp. 186-188, Ancestry.com
↑ Funeral Certificate of Sir Thomas Grey, knt., 1570, College of Arms, I. 5, fol. 179 b, abstract in Edward Hasted, The History and Topographical Survey of the County of Kent, 12 vols. (Canterbury, 1797-1801), 3:133 Google Books.
↑ PCC 34 Lyon [online images, ancestry.com], found at Ancestry.com; James Raine, Wills and Inventories … of the Northern Counties of England (London, 1835), 2(1): 115-117, found at Hathitrust Library.
↑ D.F. Coros, ‘Grey, Sir Thomas (by 1515-70), of Horton and Newstead, Northumb., and Bethnal Green, Mdx.,’ in S.T. Bindoff, ed., The History of Parliament: The House of Commons 1509-1558 (1982), found at History of Parliament Online; Fuidge, ‘Grey, Sir Thomas (bef.1512-70), of Horton and Newstead, Northumb. and Bethnal Green, Mdx.,’ in P.W. Hasler, The History of Parliament: The House of Commons 1558-1603 (1981), History of Parliament Online.
↑ James Raine, Wills and Inventories Illustrative of the History, Manners, Language, Statistics, &c. of the Northern Counties of England, from the Eleventh Century Downwards, Surtees Society Publications 2 (London, 1835), pp. 115-117, found at Google Books.
↑ Funeral Certificate of Sir Thomas Grey, knt., 1570, College of Arms, I. 5, fol. 179 b, abstract in Edward Hasted, The History and Topographical Survey of the County of Kent, 12 vols. (Canterbury, 1797-1801), 3:133, found at Google Books; Visitations of the North, Surtees Society Publications 122 (Durham, 1912), 1:134, found at Archive.org.
↑ Alan H. Nelson, Monstrous Adversary: The Life of Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford (Liverpool, 2003), p. 35, found at Google Books.
↑ William A. Shaw, Knights of England, 2 vols. (London, 1906), 2:100, found at Hathitrust Library; Paul Hunneyball, “Grey (Gray), Sir Ralph (c. 1552-1623), of Chillingham Castle, Northumb.,” in Andrew Thrush and John P. Ferris, eds., The History of Parliament: The House of Commons, 1604-1629 (2010), House of Parliament Online.
↑Wills and Inventories from the Registry at Durham, Part II, Surtees Society Publications 38 (Durham, 1860), pp. 56-60, found at Google Books.
↑Visitations of the North, Surtees Society Publications 122 (Durham, 1912), 1: 134, found at Archive.org.
↑ William Flower and Charles Best Norcliffe, ed., The Visitation of Yorkshire in the Years 1563 and 1564, Harlean Society Publications 16 (London, 1881), p. 150, found at Archive.org.
↑ Funeral Certificate of Sir Thomas Grey, knt., 1570, College of Arms, I. 5, fol. 179 b, abstract in Edward Hasted, The History and Topographical Survey of the County of Kent, 12 vols. (Canterbury, 1797-1801), 3:133 Google Books; Inquisition Post Mortum, WARD 7/13/46, found at UK National Archives.
Dorothy does need a revision. I think the 19th century error that messes up the timeline seems mainly attributed to an error filled work, which was repeated by at least 1 other. ... I need time to find/key in data.
Another error that crops up on occasion is that mom was a Skargill. Incorrect. The 3rd baron's wife was a GASCOIGNE.
Also... check out a recent article on Dorothy Ogle, published in T.O.G., 2016, v. 37. This article does est. her DOB c. 1488.
Ogle-1054 and Ogle-204 appear to represent the same person because: I believe we are posting about the same person. I did not see Ogle-204 before I added Ogle-1054.
Another error that crops up on occasion is that mom was a Skargill. Incorrect. The 3rd baron's wife was a GASCOIGNE.
Also... check out a recent article on Dorothy Ogle, published in T.O.G., 2016, v. 37. This article does est. her DOB c. 1488.