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Dorothy Ogle (abt. 1488 - aft. 1550)

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Dorothy Ogle aka Forster, Grey
Born about in Bothal, Northumberland, Englandmap
Ancestors ancestors
Wife of — married about (to ) [location unknown]
Wife of — married after [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Died after in Horton, Northumberland, Englandmap
Profile last modified | Created 8 Jul 2011 | Last significant change: 16 Jan 2019
20:57: Bree Ogle edited the Biography for Dorothy Ogle (abt.1488-aft.1550). [Thank Bree for this | 1 thank-you received]
This page has been accessed 3,090 times.

Categories: Northumberland, Ogle Name Study | Forsters of Etherstone | Frederick Clifton Pierce Fraud | Estimated Birth Date.


The Birth Date is a rough estimate. See the text for details.

Contents

Biography


//** Dorothy Ogle (b. 1488/90; [1] living 09 Sep 1513.[2][3][4][5][6][7][3] **//


Parents

  • Ralph, 3rd Baron Ogle (b. abt.1468 - d. Jan 1513)[2]
  • Margaret Gascoigne (living 16 Jul 1516), dau. of Sir William Gascoigne and Margaret Percy.[2]

WikiTree © 2014 -- Dorothy, is the daughter of Ralph, 3rd Baron Ogle and Margaret Gascoigne (not Skargill).[2]

Veracity of Data

She is not the daughter of the 5th Baron,[8] but some state Dorothy married Thomas Forster in 1572[9] ... and went on to have 8 children by this first marriage.[10]

That's wrong...

Her dad died before the Battle of Flodden (09 Sep 1513).[6] So even if she was born that same year, it implies she suddenly started having kids at the ripe old (menopausal) age of 59.

Preposterous!

In any case, it's a good thing that the actions of her son Sir John Forster,[11] were well-documented. Although the year of his birth is unknown, it's been estimated around 1520 -- seven years before his father died.[11]

But more importantly, the battles he fought prove that there is NO WAY Dorothy married his father in 1572. For instance ... by November of 1542, John was engaged in the Battle of Solway Moss. And five years later, he was knighted.[11]

In any case, Ogle, (1902) is the authority for Ogle genealogy. He states there is no way Dorothy could be the daughter of Robert, 5th Baron Ogle, and that her father is Ralph, 3rd Baron Ogle[12]. Evidence for Thomas Grey is further supported in the [[Space: Will of Isabelle Gray |will]] of Dorothy's daughter, Dame Isabell Grey of Ogle Castle.[13]

Siblings

Marriage

She married twice.

Forster of Etherstone

m.1 (1503/5) Sir Thomas Forster of Etherstone, marshall of Berwick-upon-Tweed.[1][3][14][15] Knt.[4][10][16][17] (d.1527)[11]Issue: 8.[3][18]

children
  • Thomas Forster of Adderstone (d. abt. 1589),[6][19][18][20] Sheriff of Northumberland: 1564; 1572.[21]
  • Sir John Forster (c.1520 - 1602) of Bamborough Castle[19][18][21]
  • Reginald (Rannald) of Capheaton (will dated 18 Nov 1565/6, and also named in his father's will).[7][19][20]
  • Roland (Rowland) of Wark (living 1589 and named in his father's will).[8][9][19][20]
  • Elizabeth[19][20]
m. George Finch of Kent
  • Margaret[20] (ante 1517 - after 1596)[19]
m.1 William Heron of Ford
m.2 John Heron of Thornton
m.3 George Heron of Chipchase
m. Sir Reginald Carnaby of Halton
m.1 George Craster, Esq. (d. 06 Mar 1546)
m.2 Robert Widdrington, Esq.

Grey of Horton

Some sources conflict when it comes to identifying Dorothy's second husband. Burke (1831), states he's John Grey of Horton,[4] while Parliament, and Ogle (1902) say he's Sir Thomas Grey of Horton (ante.1512 - 05 Aug 1570), who served as Marshall of Berwick.[5] But Burke (1833), later agrees that she married Thomas Grey of Horton, so there was a publishing error at some point.

m.2 (after 1527) Thomas Grey of Horton and Newstead, NBL and Bethnal Green, MX (anti.1512 - 05 Aug 1570)[5][2][16][22][23]
children
m. Lancelot, son of John Ogle (1477 - 1566) of Ogle Castle[25]
m.1 Sir Ralph Grey of Chillingham[28]
m.2 Thomas Ogle of Lorbottle (and of Ogle Castle)[2]
m. Roger Proctor of Shadon, NBL[27]
m. Robert Clavering of Callaly[27]
m. Humphrey Heron of Bockham, NBL, son of John Heron[27]
m. John Baxter of Hebborne[27]
  • Margery[27][24] (will 03 Nov 1612, proved: 19 Mar 1613/4)
m. John, son of George Heron of Chipchase and Marion Swinburne

Sources


  • Americana, (1920). (Vol. 14). NY: Publishing Society of New York. Google Books.
  • Bateson, E. (1893). "Forster of Adderstone," in a History of Northumberland, 1, pp. 228. Google Books.[10]
  • Bethan, W. (n.d.) The Baronetage of England, 4, p. 34[30]
  • Brooks, D.J.B. (2016). Tales of Northumberland Ogles: Their kith and kin. The Ogle Genealogist, 37, pp. 14-24. OOFA. Print.[11]
  • Burke, J. (1831). A general and heraldic dictionary of the peerages of England, Ireland, and Scotland, extinct, dormant, and in abeyance. England. Google Books.
  • Burke, J. (1833). The portrait gallery of distinguished females: including beauties of the courts of George IV and William IV. E. Bull. Google eBook
  • Collins, A. (1720). The Baronettage of England, 2, pp.120 - 121. London: W. Taylor. Google Books.
  • Ellis, S.G. (2009). "Region and Frontier in the English State: The English Far North, 1296-1603." Frontiers, Regions and Identities in Europe. Cliohres. Pisa: Plus-Pisa University Press. Web. Accessed 13 Jan 2014. PDF. [12]
  • Flower, W. (1881). Visitations of Yorkshire 1563 and 1564. Charles Best Norcliffe, Ed. Harlein Society. Google Books.[13]
  • Foster, J. (1871). A Pedigree of the Forsters and Fosters of the North of England and Some of the Families Connected with them. Archive.org. CAUTION![14][8][31]
  • Grey, Sir Thomas I (bef.1512-70), of Horton and Newstead, Northumb. and Bethnal Green, Mdx. HOP. Web.[15]
  • Meikle, M.M. (2004). A British frontier?: Lairds and gentlemen in the Eastern Borders, 1540-1603. pp.338. Tuckwell. Google Books.
  • Ogle, H.A.(1902). Ogle and Bothal: History of the baronies of Ogle, Bothal, and Hepple, (pp.lxvii).
  • Raine, J. Greenwell, W., Hogdson, J.C. & Wood, H.M. (1860). "Wills and inventories from the registry at Durham part II." Wills and Inventories Illustrative of the History, Manners, Language, Statistics, &c. of the Northern Counties of England: From the Eleventh Century Downwards, (Vol.38, pp.). London: Mitchell and Son. Google eBook.

Notes


  1. 1.0 1.1 b. 1488/90; m. (1503/5) Thomas Forster (b. abt. 1466), (Brooks, 2016, p. 17).[1]
  2. 2.00 2.01 2.02 2.03 2.04 2.05 2.06 2.07 2.08 2.09 2.10 2.11 2.12 Ogle, 1902
  3. 3.0 3.1 3.2 3.3 Bateson, 1893.[2]
  4. 4.0 4.1 4.2 4.3 4.4 4.5 4.6 4.7 Burke, 1831
  5. 5.0 5.1 5.2 Grey, Sir Thomas I, n.d.
  6. 6.0 6.1 Ellis, 2009
  7. Dorothy's father was succeeded by his heir Robert before the Battle of Flodden on 09 Sept 1513. Her youngest son Sir John Ogle was probably born in 1520, so Dorothy is probably b. c. 1480/90s.
  8. 8.0 8.1 Foster, (1891) misidentified Dorothy's parents as Robert, 5th Baron of Ogle and Dorothy Widdrington (due to a typo in Glover's pedigree). While they did have a daughter named Margery ... she married Gregory Ogle of Choppington. The 5th baron's second wife also had a Margerye, but she married Robert Widdrington (p.859).
  9. CAUTION: Pierce (1899), states Dorothy married Thomas Forster in 1572.[3] That's WRONG! Wurts (1945), repeats the same error. [4]
  10. 10.0 10.1 Americana, 1920
    see also Pierce in WikiTree Cats under Category: Frederick Clifton Pierce Fraud.
  11. 11.0 11.1 11.2 11.3 Wikipedia: Sir John Forster
  12. p.61-63
  13. 13.0 13.1 Raine, Greenwell, Hogdson & Wood, 1860
  14. Wurts, 1945
  15. Adderstone (Meikle, 2004)
  16. 16.0 16.1 Meikle, 2004
  17. Bros. of Sir Roger (Meikle, 2004),
  18. 18.0 18.1 18.2 Collins, 1720
  19. 19.0 19.1 19.2 19.3 19.4 19.5 19.6 19.7
  20. 20.0 20.1 20.2 20.3 20.4 20.5 20.6 Foster, 1871
  21. 21.0 21.1
  22. (disputed) Sir John Grey of Horton, Knt. (Burke, 1831)
  23. Brooks (2016), claims that Dorothy had 10 kids with Thomas Grey, (p. 21).
    Brooks (2016), asserts that Dorothy and Thos Grey also had children: Catherine, Catherine II (unproven), (p. 21).
  24. 24.0 24.1 24.2 24.3 24.4 24.5 24.6 24.7 Brooks, 2016, p. 21
  25. This is NOT Lancelot, son of Phillis Ogle and John Ogle of Newshame, who m. Dorothy Watson (Ogle, 1902).
  26. dau. and h. of Sir Thomas Grey of Horton (Burke, 1833)
  27. 27.0 27.1 27.2 27.3 27.4 27.5 27.6 27.7 27.8 27.9 Flower, 1881
  28. Father: Sir Edward Grey of Chillingham (Burke, 1833)
  29. Bethan, n.d. p. 34.
  30. cites daughter Barbara
  31. Foster (1902), gets Dorothy's parents wrong.[5]

Questionable Data

  • Foster
  • Pierce
  • Wurts

See Also...


Profile & Merge History


  • Merged Ogle-1742 into Ogle-204 | 16 Jan 2019
  • Merged Ogle-1054 into Ogle-204| 9 Apr 2016
  • Merged Ogle-692 into Ogle-204 | 9 Aug 2014
  • Merged Ogle-217 into Ogle-204 | 12 Jun 2013
  • original import Terrass Family Tree.ged | 8 Jul 2011

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DNA
No known carriers of Dorothy's mitochondrial DNA have taken an mtDNA test.

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Images: 5
Pedigree in Ogle and Bothal (1902)
Pedigree in Ogle and Bothal (1902)

Heron of Newark-upon-Trent, Nottinghamshire
Heron of Newark-upon-Trent, Nottinghamshire

Visitations of the North: Thomas VI Grey of Horton
Visitations of the North: Thomas VI Grey of Horton

Forster of Adderstone (Bateson 1893)
Forster of Adderstone (Bateson 1893)

Grey in Visitations of Yorkshire 1563 and 1564
Grey in Visitations of Yorkshire 1563 and 1564

Collaboration

On 16 Jan 2019 at 20:15 GMT Bree Ogle wrote:

Dorothy does need a revision. I think the 19th century error that messes up the timeline seems mainly attributed to an error filled work, which was repeated by at least 1 other. ... I need time to find/key in data.

Another error that crops up on occasion is that mom was a Skargill. Incorrect. The 3rd baron's wife was a GASCOIGNE.

Also... check out a recent article on Dorothy Ogle, published in T.O.G., 2016, v. 37. This article does est. her DOB c. 1488.

On 8 Apr 2016 at 23:17 GMT Suzanne Roff wrote:

Ogle-1054 and Ogle-204 appear to represent the same person because: I believe we are posting about the same person. I did not see Ogle-204 before I added Ogle-1054.

On 8 Jan 2015 at 01:38 GMT John Putnam wrote:

Ogle-607 and Ogle-204 are not ready to be merged because: Dates do not add up as note in the 204 notes.



Dorothy is 21 degrees from Walter Morrison, 27 degrees from Alison Wilkins and 14 degrees from Victoria of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland on our single family tree. Login to find your connection.

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