John Payne Sr (abt. 1765 - abt. 1836)

Born about 1765 in Fredrick County, Maryland [uncertain]

Ancestors

Husband of Nancy (Carpenter) Payne — married 12 Jul 1829 in Lawrence, Ohio, United States

Descendants

Died about 1836 at about age 71 in Lawrence County, Ohio

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Biography

There has been a lot of controversy regarding John Payne, but with all of the facts gathered and combined, I'll attempt to summarize his life to the best of my ability, despite John remaining a mystery for many years.

Although there is no "birth record" it is believed that John was born in 1765 to Thomas Payne and Elizabeth Parker/Porter (both names have been seen and needs further research to confirm) in Frederick County, Maryland. It has been established through DNA that John Payne is not a direct descendant of Flayle Payne (1696-1765), but we are still not certain if the paternal y-dna branched off with Thomas Edward Payne or John Payne Sr.

When John was born in 1765, his family resided on Flayle Payne's land in what is now Frederick County, MD. To speak on Flayle for a moment, he was christened on November 29th, 1696 at St. Mary Magdalene Angelican Church located on Old Fish Street, London, England. He worked as a cloth worker before coming to America, his first record in America is in Prince George's County, Maryland in 1727, where he appeared as a witness. Flayle was one of the first few to move to western Maryland due to Indian raids, etc. as a result he can be found mentioned as one of the first settlers in the new colony, and received the 34th land survey in western Maryland. Flayle is also mentioned on November 2nd, 1730 on a list of explorers, squatters, and settlers in Monocacy Valley, and was listed as an Indian Scout in Prince George's County in 1730. The family ran a ferry along the potomac where they lived, the potomac was located between Frederick County, Maryland and Loudon County, Virginia. Flayle's will was dated October 27th, 1764, one year before John is born. More information about Flayle can be found on his wikitree page. Although John may have not been a direct paternal descendant of Flayle, he is still important because John travelled with his family and lived on his land.

As I began saying, when John was born in 1765 on Flayle's land, his father Thomas, who we still have not been able to confirm or deny if he is the legitimate father of John due to John having O'Neill paternal ancestry, unlike the normal Payne haplotype. John's caretaker Thomas passed away the same year he was born, and there are no records of the mother, that I've found. Flayle willed the tract of land Payne's Industry to son Thomas, after Thomas died in 1765, he willed the tract of land to his son John Payne Sr. After Thomas's death, it's on record that John stayed with his uncle John Payne (1725-1798), the sons of Flayle continued to run the ferry for a couple years, and uncle John paid the taxes on little John's tract of land that he was too young to do anything with. The ferry was located on "Payn's Delight".

Around 1775 uncle John Payne (1725) and his wife Mary Shelton, sold their land in Maryland and moved to Bedford County, Virginia to Rock Castle Creek. There are records of John trading around land and adding tracts to his land over the years, a couple of the tracts included a branch of Mill's Creek and both sides of Goose Creek. Uncle John seems to be documented just a bit more than my John Payne (1765). We assume that sometime around 1780's or 90's that John got his own land nearby. John's land was described as being on both sides of the Staunton River, and another record described his land as being on Jumping Run. John was still living in Virginia in 1799 when his daughter Elizabeth Payne Moorman married James Moorman at his house, this marriage is listed in a book under Quaker Records in Bedford, Virginia. It's known that John and his wife Sara apparently 'complained' about trips to the court house being so far away, between Bedford and Franklin Counties because traveling to the court house was quite common for signing documents and land exchanges during this time.

After 1799, John's records start to get confusing, I'm assuming after his uncle John died is when he added the 'Sr' to his name to distinguish him from his children and cousins. There is a record of John paying property taxes in Jackson, Madison County, Tennessee. There isn't a lot of records involving the family during this time, but it is noted that quite a few of John and Sara's children were born in Jackson. The records involving Madison County were burnt in a fire, unfortunately. I believe that this is also the period of time that John attempts consulting about land in Gallia County, Ohio. The president was giving out land patents at this time for soldiers, however, the Payne's paid for their land instead of having it given to them for military purposes.

John packed up his family and things, it's believed that he traveled to Greenbrier, West Virginia before coming to Ohio, when he was there it's said that he picked up cattle to bring with him to his new land. I have not been able to find the source to this statement specifically, but it is believed that John did not have farm animals claimed when living in Tennessee, yet had them when arriving in Ohio. John and his son William traveled to Ohio and handled their land out of the Chillicothe land office. On paper, their land is listed as being in Gallia County, Ohio, however, during this time Lawrence County was formed as John and William arrived. Their land was in Mason Township along the mouth of Buck Creek. Many Payne's passed down this land through generations and built many houses and landmarks in the area. John's son William Uriah's land ended up being the exact location of Fairview Baptist Church which also included a Payne cemetery.

When John moved from Virginia to Tennessee, it is to be believed that the Wilson family traveled with them. John's son William Uriah Payne (1785-1837) married Dinah Wilson from Henry County, Virginia her parents were John Culpeper Wilson and Sarah Martin Wilson. They got land nearby in Lawrence County, and their family continued their legacy in this area as well.

It is believed that John's wife Sarah Ellis may have died after he moved to Lawrence County, he remarried to a Nancy Carpenter in the 1820's. This marriage record, and the land patent for John's land can be found online and will need to be added as a source to this page. John passed away in 1836, he is buried in the family cemetery under an unmarked grave, the marker has been destroyed due to weather over the years. It is believed that a certain flower blooms over his grave every summer. There are quite a few books and articles online that attempt to piece together John's life to the best of the author's ability, there has been conflicting information regarding his ancestry long before it was apparent that he was of O'Neill Lineage.

Luckily, we live in the age of DNA, and we are finding new information all the time. Within the last 10 years or so, through Y-DNA research, it has been learned that John Payne is technically an O'Neill. He follows the O'Neill haplotype and clearly a descendant of Niall of the Nine Hostages. With further research, a few specific Payne's took one for team per-say, and purchased what is called Big Y-DNA test. This test is the most that you can get out of Y-DNA, and it is constantly updated and upgraded with technology. John's descendants follow the SNP: R-BY138316. This specific SNP, so far has shown us that John is a 'direct descendant' of Shane the Proud, an Irish Chieftan in the O'Neill dynasty. Shane the Proud (1530-1567) who ruled Ireland, was the son of King Conn Bacach O'Neill, and was born in County Tyrone. Robert Treat Paine who signed the Declaration of Independence is believed to have also been a descendant of Shane the Proud.

So far we are still researching and attempting to locate the father of John Payne, our DNA has been uploaded to Family Projects and fortunately, we continue to learn more about him as we keep researching.

Descendants of John have taken a YDNA test, and their DNA has been uploaded into Payne, O'Neal/Neal, and O'Neill projects. It is very clear that John's father came from Ireland, and was indeed an O'Neill. It's believed that he specifically descends from Shane The Proud, however we are doing what we can to get closer every day.

Payne DNA Project: John's haplogroup is listed as R-M269-01 The men that he is grouped into this haplogroup with is: John Payne 1615-1690 Gustavus Payne 1816-1896 Dennis M. Rambeau William Pearson Payne 1791-1863 Absalom Payne 1792 Thomas Payne 1498-1544

O'Neill DNA Project: John's haplogroup: R-Z1513 / FT32273 / FT87684 Men he is grouped with: Patrick O'Neill 1816 Cornelius (Neal) O'Neill 1825 Patrick O'Brien 1766 Thomas McShane 1790 Felix O'Neill 1780 Henry O'Neal 1749 Frans Edward Prins O'Brien Felix O'Neill 1837 Charles O'Neill 1755 John McCallum Hugh O'Neill 1821-1883

Much more info to come!

Sources

"Pedigree Resource File", database, FamilySearch (http://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/SR7V-WVL : accessed 2013-01-03), entry for John /Payne/, Sr. (12/29/18, file not found)