Project: A table of descendants of Edward III

Categories: Edward III descents


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Descendants of Edward III of England

This is the first page in the project, which starts with WikiTree's 5-generation descendancy chart as of 16th December 2016, with updates.

This is a working page and starting point, checking the current state of WikiTree, not necessarily the historical facts. This is intentional. Please do not fix genealogical errors on this page without fixing WikiTree.

(Idea: proposed changes based on the tables below are being listed; marking DONE or G2G POST can help track what has been acted on.)

The first reconciliations below have been based on a limited number of sources, mostly Douglas Richardson, with MEDLANDS used for continental lines. To go beyond 5 generations will require more use of visitations and continental works.

Further work building upon this can be done by anyone starting a new project page to study any aspect of Edward III's descents further. So far (please add):

Edward III's Suggestion report.[1]


Codes

[ns] "No spouse" flag is set
[nc]"No children" flag is set
[UNC]"Uncertain" flag is set on this parent
[DNA]"Confirmed with DNA" flag is set on this parent
(=)Appears as a spouse of another Descendant here
BoldThis person is a Descendant through both parents
(<)Father's side here
(>)Mother's side here
Spouses
Not shown for generation 5
BoldThis spouse is also a Descendant
(<)Appears as a Descendant (father's side) here
(>)Appears as a Descendant (mother's side) here
(=)Appears as a spouse of another Descendant here



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Main line

Compare to descent on Genealogics webpage by the late Leo van de Pas.

Also see MEDLANDS and Wikipedia.

#01234 5 ______________________________________________ _______________________________________ - Notes
0 Edward III (Plantagenet) of England 13 Nov 1312 - 21 Jun 1377 PA // PA1:77 for Alice Perrers (currently not linked to Edward in WT)
0=m. (24 Jan 1328) Philippa Hainaut abt 24 Jun 1310 - 10 Aug 1369
1 Edward (Plantagenet) of Woodstock K.G. 15 Jun 1330 - 08 Jun 1376 RA: confirmed child V.1 ENGLAND p.85, children p.97
2 John Sounder Not in RA and known as dubious // Shown by Weir apparently
2 Roger Clarendon aft 1345 - 1402 RA V.1 ENGLAND p.102. No issue.
2 Edward FitzEdward 1349 Wikitree cites RA V.2, p.467 but that is a 12th century Walter fitz Edward! Merge with brother? Something needs to be done, but there might be a real person in some sources see Genealogics, and he also appears on MEDLANDS.
1= =m. (6 Oct 1361) Joan Plantagenet LG 28 Sep 1328 - 07 Aug 1385
2 Edward (Plantagenet) of Angoulême 27 Jan 1365 - abt 29 Sep 1370 RA V.1. "England" p.100. no issue
2 Richard (Plantagenet) England [Richard II] 06 Jan 1367 - abt 06 Jan 1400 RA: confirmed child V.1 "England" p.102, detail p.103. no issue
3 Richard Maudelyn No source in wikitree, not in RA. Has now been disconnected/ Profile represents a common and old story. Might come back?
2=1=m1. (20 Jan 1382) Anne of Bohemia LG 11 May 1366 - 07 Jun 1394
2=2=m2. (4 Nov 1396) Isabelle Valois 09 Nov 1389 - 13 Sep 1409
1v Isabella (Plantagenet) de Coucy LG [UNC] abt 16 Jun 1332 - bef 05 Oct 1382 PA // SEE OWN TABLE
1 Joan Plantagenet of the Tower [nc] [UNC] abt Feb 1335 - 02 Sep 1348 PA // RA V.1. ENGLAND, p.85 no issue Why UNC?
1 William (Plantagenet) of Hatfield [ns] [nc] bef 16 Feb 1337 - bef 08 Jul 1337 PA // RA V.1. ENGLAND, p.86 no issue
1v Lionel (Plantagenet) of Antwerp KG 29 Nov 1338 - 17 Oct 1368 PA // SEE OWN TABLE
1v John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG abt 24 Jul 1340 - 03 Feb 1399 SEE OWN TABLE
1v Edmund (Plantagenet) of Langley KG 05 Jun 1341 - 01 Aug 1402 RA V.1 ENGLAND p.88 See YORK for issue (V.5. p.445) SEE OWN TABLE
1 Blanche Plantagenet [nc] [UNC] abt Mar 1342 - abt Mar 1342 PA // died very young
1 Mary (Plantagenet) of Waltham [UNC] 10 Oct 1344 - bef 13 Feb 1361 PA
1==m. (abt 3 Jul 1361) Jean Montfort KG abt Nov 1339 - 02 Nov 1399 Richardson says no issue V.1. p.88
1 Margaret (Plantagenet) Hastings [nc] [UNC] 20 Jul 1346 - aft 01 Oct 1361 PA // Aka Margaret of Windsor
1==m. (May 1359) John Hastings 29 Aug 1347 - 16 Apr 1375 Richardson says no issue V.1. p.89
1 Thomas of Windsor Reported by Alison Weir, [included] by MedLands, primary source not identified. Ian Mortimer (Perfect King p.434) says he comes from a mistaken report in Froissart
1 William (Plantagenet) of Windsor [ns] [nc] bef 24 Jun 1348 - bef 05 Sep 1348 PA // Died as baby
1v Thomas (Plantagenet) of Woodstock KG [UNC] 07 Jan 1355 - 08 Sep 1397 RA V.1. ENGLAND. See BOURCHIER (V.1 p.479) for issue SEE OWN TABLE
Possible illegitimate childrenSome writers place any or all of these children
as the children of one or other of Alice's husbands
1 John (Southeray) de_Southeray 1364 - 1383 PA // RA ENGLAND V.1 p.96 says probable son of E3, but also probably no issue
1 Joan Perrers 1365 PA // RA ENGLAND V.1 pp.95 thinks she is clearly from Alice's husband, not E3 // now disconnected
1 Jane (Plantagenet) Despayne PA // RA ENGLAND V.1 pp.96-7 says probable daughter of E3, but subsequent history unknown

Conclusion at 5th generation: No continuing lines in this table, but go to the tables named.

Proposed actions:

  • Check children of Edward III marked as uncertain UNC but not treated that way by RA
  • Do something with Edward FitzEdward



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Isabella

Isabella's family are mainly/all aristocrats, so useful to refer to the family on: Genealogics, MEDLANDS.

#01234 5 ______________________________________________ _______________________________________ - Notes
0 Edward III (Plantagenet) of England m. Philippa Hainaut
1v Isabella (Plantagenet) de Coucy LG [UNC] abt 16 Jun 1332 - bef 05 Oct 1382 PA // RA V.1. "England" pp.86-7. Shows two daughters
1==m. (27 Jul 1365) Enguerrand Coucy KG abt 1339 - 18 Feb 1397
2vv Marie (Coucy) de Bar-le-Duc abt Apr 1366 - aft 03 Mar 1405 PA // RA V.1. "England" p.86 not followed in RA, but 2 sons given in PA (Rob and another Enguerrand). "Descendants include Mary Queen of Scots"
2==m. (Jan 1384) Henri Bar-le-Duc abt 1366 - abt Nov 1398
3 Enguerrand Do we need to add Enguerrand. WP says died young?
3vvv Robert (de Bar) Bar-le-Duc - 25 Oct 1415
3==m. (abt 1414) Jeanne de Bethune abt 1398 - abt 1459
4vvvv Jeanne (de Bar) de Bar-le-Duc abt 1415 [2] Now connected to her husband and 2 of her children already on WT
4==m. () Louis de Luxembourg 1418 - 19 Dec 1475 The family on: Genealogics, MEDLANDS. Both name 7 chilren
5????? Jean de Luxembourg d in battle. MEDLANDS and Genealogics mention no children. French and German Wikipedia have articles for the family, but do not mention him.
5vvvvv Helene Luxembourg - 23 Aug 1488 MEDLANDS and Genealogics agree she married Janus de Savoie, Comte de Faucigny and they had Louise de Savoie. Louise married twice and had 1s to second husband, who has descendants and is not in wikitree.
5vvvvv Jacoba Luxemburg abt 1435 - 1511 More commonly called Jacqueline? MEDLANDS and Genealogics agree she married Philippe I de Croÿ, Seigneur de Croÿ et d'Araines. Descendants in Belgian region.
5vvvvv Pierre II de Luxembourg abt 1440 - 25 Oct 1482 MEDLANDS and Genealogics name the same 5 children, 3 died young. Descendants from Marie who had children from 2 husbands. Françoise m but maybe no issue. MEDLANDS adds one illegit., Charlotte, m. Phillipe d'Estavayer co-Seigneur d'Estavayer.
5vvvvv Antoine de Luxembourg Children from several wives. Should eventually be in wikitree. Genealogics
5vvvvv Charles de Luxembourg MEDLANDS: "Canon at Köln Cathedral 1455. Deacon at Laon Cathedral 1463. Bishop of Laon, pair de France 1473. Charles had two illegitimate children by an unknown mistress or mistresses:" Genealogics does not name them, but MEDLANDS says François de Luxembourg Seigneur de Bornival, and Charles.
5????? Philippe de Luxembourg MEDLANDS says Abbot at Moncel.
3 Elizabeth (Langton) Stanley abt 1400 - abt 1435 Disconnected. She can be seen RA V.2. p.487, but different parents named (Wikitree only cites Ricardson)
3==m. () Thomas Stanley Esq. abt 1392 - May 1463
4 George Stanley Esq abt 1440 - abt 1509
4==m. (aft 16 Nov 1471) Eleanor Sutton abt 1439 - 1513
5 Anne (Stanley) Wolseley aft 1472 - aft 1532
5 John Stanley Esq abt 1476 - 07 Oct 1534
2 Philippa (Coucy) de Vere LG bef 18 Apr 1367 - Oct 1411 PA // confirmed child RA V.1. "England" p.86 descent at VERE 5.ii.a (RA V.5. p.261, says no issue)
2==m. (5 Oct 1376) Robert de Vere 16 Jan 1362 - abt 1392

Conclusion at 5th generation: Apart from lines traced in other tables, only the de Luxembourg family can be continued. Genealogics, MEDLANDS both name 7 children. At least 5 have descendants. See second page.


Proposed actions:

  • Do we need to add Enguerrand or did he die young?



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Lionel of Antwerp - Mortimer

#01234 5 ______________________________________________ _______________________________________ - Notes
0 Edward III (Plantagenet) of England m. Philippa Hainaut
1v Lionel (Plantagenet) of Antwerp KG 29 Nov 1338 - 17 Oct 1368 PA // RA ENGLAND V.1 p.87
1===m2. (1368) Violante Visconti abt 1353 - Nov 1386 2nd wife. RA says no issue
1===m1. (9 Sep 1342) Elizabeth Burgh 06 Jul 1332 - 10 Dec 1363 1st wife. RA says 1d Phillipe
2vv Philippa (Plantagenet) Mortimer 16 Aug 1355 - abt 07 Jan 1378 RA V.1. ENGLAND p.87 only descent from Lionel. See MORTIMER 13
2===m. (abt May 1368) Edmund Mortimer 01 Feb 1352 - 27 Dec 1381 RA V.4. p.174. Says 2s (Rog, Edm); 2d (Eliz, Phil)
3vvv Elizabeth (Mortimer) Camoys 12 Feb 1371 - 20 Apr 1417
3==1=m1. (bef 10 Dec 1379) Henry Percy KG, KB 20 May 1364 - 21 Jul 1403 RA: PERCY 12. (V.4. p.355) says 1s (Henry) and 1d. (Eliz)
4vvvv Elizabeth (Percy) Neville abt 1390 - 26 Oct 1436
4==1=m1. (abt 1404) John Clifford KG abt 1389 - 13 Mar 1422 RA: CLIFFORD 14. Says 2s (Th, Hen), 2d (Mary, Blanche "wife of Robert Waterton, Knt.").
5vvvvv Thomas Clifford 25 Mar 1414 - 22 May 1455 Followed RA V.2. p.246 under CLIFFORD 15 m. Joan Dacre 4s (John, Roger, Rob, Tom); 5d (Eliz (m Wm Plumpton, Jn Hamerton), Maud (m Jn Harington, Edm Sutton/Dudley) , Anne (m Rich Tempest and Wm Conyers) Joan (m Sim Musgrave), Marg (m Rob Carr)// Son Roger married Joan Courtenay, see Courtenay table
5????? Henry Clifford 1416 - 1460 Mentioned RA V.2. p.246 CLIFFORD, but not followed. Not in Genealogics. Clay says d. without issue
5vvvvv Mary (Clifford) Wentworth 1416 - 04 Oct 1478 RA: NETTLESTEAD 16. RA 4 p.218 says 1s (Henry), 2d (Marg, w Th Cotton, and Eliz)
5 Beatrice or Blanche (Clifford) Waterton 1416 - 04 Oct 1478 Not in Genealogics.
4=2=m2. (bef 20 Jul 1426) Ralph Neville [2nd Earl] abt Sep 1406 - 03 Nov 1484 RA: NEVILLE 14.i.
5 John Neville [nc] aft 1421 - abt Mar 1450 apparently no issue
4vvvv Henry Percy 03 Feb 1392 - 22 May 1455
>>>>> Marriage and descendants See #Percy
3=2=m2. (aft 3 Jun 1406) Thomas Camoys KG abt 1351 - 28 Mar 1421 RA: CAMOYS 8. At least 1s Roger should be added but 5g no issue. // Ruvigny shows a daughter Alice Camoys, who married Sir Leonard Hastings, with issue, but she turned out to be Thomas's daughter by his 1st wife.
4 Roger Camoys RA V.2 pp.71-2 under CAMOYS. Now has article.
4=1 m. () Isabel RA says no issue
4=2 m. () Isabel de Beaunoy RA says no issue
3vvv Roger Mortimer 11 Apr 1374 - 20 Jul 1398 RA: MORTIMER line
3==m. (7 Oct 1388) Alianore Holland abt 1373 - 23 Oct 1405 2s, 2d with Roger
4 Eleanor (Mortimer) Courtenay abt 1387 - aft Jan 1414
4==m. (bef 20 Nov 1409) Edward Courtenay abt 1385 - 05 Dec 1419 RA: COURTENAY 8.i.a. No issue.
4vvvv Anne (Mortimer) of York (=) 27 Dec 1390 - 11 Sep 1411
4==m. (May 1406) Richard York [2]Sep 1376 - 05 Aug 1415 RA: YORK 11. See Langley table. 2s 1d. WT misses Henry who died young
>>>>> Descendants of this marriage See #York
4 Edmund Mortimer 06 Nov 1391 - 18 Jan 1425 No issue
4==m. (1415) Anne Stafford abt 1399 - 20 Sep 1432 also m 2 descendants of EIII, also appears in Holland table
Descendants from her other marriages See #Holland
4 Roger Mortimer abt 23 Apr 1393 - abt 1413 died young so apparently no issue
3??? Philippa (Mortimer) de Mortimer 21 Nov 1375 - 24 Sep 1401
3==m1. (aft 1386) John Hastings 1372 - Dec 1389 RA HASTINGS 14 V.3. p.263 says no issue
3==m2. (15 Aug 1390) Richard FitzAlan KG 25 Mar 1346 - 21 Sep 1397 RA FITZ ALAN 12 V.2. p.610 says no issue
4 John Fitzalan abt 1394 - abt 1397 RA says there was no such child. Wrong mother?
3==m3. (aft Apr 1398) Thomas Poynings abt 1355 - 07 Mar 1429 RA PAULET 11 (V.4 p.323) No children mentioned
3??? Edmund Mortimer 09 Nov 1376 - 1409 RA says 1s Lionel and 3d. Apparently 1 daughter lived?
3==m. (Nov 1402) Katherine Glendower aft 1383 - 1413
4???? kids
3 Sir John Mortimer [UNC] abt 1378 - 1424 Disconnect and split? See discussions on Med Gen. John lived in Enfield and there seems to be a Mortimer family there. See also discussions which show there might be another John Mortimer who was related to the Edward III descendants somehow.
4 Averia (Mortimer) Wroth [UNC] 1395 Disconnect branch?
4==m. () William Wroth 1402 - 1450 Disconnect branch?
5 John Wroth - 1480 Disconnect branch?


Conclusion at 5th generation: At least two have descendants, Thomas Clifford and Mary (Clifford) Wentworth. See second webpage for further tracking.

Followed further on Lionel of Antwerp descent page

Worth further study?

  • Beatrice or Blanche (Clifford) Waterton. Not followed in RA or Wikitree. Not in Genealogics. RA calls Blanche, but she's usually called Beatrice. Probably no issue. No profile for husband, who is very problematic. He might have had a son, but by a previous wife. See for example Brad Verity's post.
  • RA also mentions a daughter of Edmund Mortimer and Katherine Glendower survived? What happened to surviving daughter of Katherine Glendower, if any? On the Medieval Geneaology forum it has been said the girls were probably put in nunneries if any lived. (They were dangerous heirs.)

To do:

  • John Fitz Alan (child of Phillipa de Mortimer) maybe does not exist or perhaps has wrong mother?

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John of Gaunt

First generations

#01234 5 _______________________________________________ _______________________________________ - Notes
0 Edward III (Plantagenet) of England m. Philippa Hainaut
1v John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG abt 24 Jul 1340 - 03 Feb 1399
illegitimate
2 Blanche (Lancaster) Morieux (illeg.) abt 1357 Her "daughter" probably needs to be disconnected
2==m. () Thomas Morieux abt 1357 - 05 May 1387 Sister was heir.
3 Elizabeth (Morieux) FitzLucas [UNC] 1360 Father actually appears to have been John Morieux disconnect? // Now disconnected
3==m. () Edmund Fitz Lucas abt 1349 disconnect branch?
4 John Fitz Lucas 1375 disconnect branch?
4==m. () Christian Brampton abt 1378 disconnect branch?
5 Edmund Fitz Lucas 1398 disconnect branch?
First wife
1==m1. (13 May 1359) Blanche Plantagenet abt 1341 - 12 Sep 1368 Richardson names 4 sons and 2d by Blanche. RA V.1. ENGLAND p.88 See LANCASTER for issue. WT has no articles for the 2 sons named John who died young. Daughter Isabel is not in Richardson.
2 John died young
2 John died young
2 Edward Lancaster 1365 - 1365 died young, buried Leicester
2vv Henry (Lancaster) of England KG [Henry IV] 15 Apr 1367 - 20 Mar 1413
>>> Descendants SEE OWN TABLE
2 Isabel (Lancaster) Plantagenet 1368 - 1380 Marlyn Lewis says "may not even have existed".[3]
2vv Philippa (Lancaster) Portugal LG 31 Mar 1359 - 19 Jul 1415
>>> Descendants SEE OWN TABLE
2vv Elizabeth (Lancaster) Holand LG abt 1362 - 24 Nov 1426
>>> Descendants SEE OWN TABLE
Second wife
1==m2. (29 Sep 1371) Constanza Castilla LG 1354 - 24 Mar 1394 1d Catalina
2vv Katherine (Lancaster) de Castilla LG 31 Mar 1373 - 02 Jun 1418
>>> Descendants SEE OWN TABLE
Mistress then wife. Children (Beauforts) legitimated later
1==m3. (13 Jan 1396) Katherine Roet 1350 - 10 May 1403 4 children legitimized, Jn, Hen, Th, Joan
2vv John Beaufort KG abt 1371 - 16 Mar 1410 RA: SOMERSET 11. V4 p.645 also had illeg. s John
3??? John, illeg "Bastard of Somerset" MCA 4:43. Richardson puts here. MEDLANDS puts the same person (same records) as a son of the next John, this one's son. Seems to be no evidence of children or wife.
3??? Isabel?, illeg A daughter maybe named Isabel is claimed to have married the Gascon noble Louis d'Aspremont. [3], [4]
2==m. (bef 28 Sep 1397) Margaret Holland abt 1385 - bef 08 Jan 1440 RA V4 p.645 4s Hen, John, Th, Edm, 2d Joan, Marg // she m (2nd) his nephew Thomas of Lancaster
3vvv Joan (Beaufort) Stewart abt 1398 - abt 15 Jul 1445
>>>> Descendants SEE OWN TABLE
3=1=m1. (Feb 1424) James Stewart 25 Jul 1394 - 21 Feb 1437 Do not merge // RA BRUS 12
3=2=m2. (21 Sep 1439) James Stewart abt 1383 - 17 Aug 1451 Do not merge // RA STEWART 12
3 Henry Beaufort 25 Nov 1401 - 25 Nov 1418 d unmarried
3vvv John Beaufort KG abt 25 Mar 1404 - 27 May 1444
>>>> Descendants SEE OWN TABLE
3==m. (aft 2 Aug 1441) Margaret Beauchamp abt 1410 - bef 03 Jun 1482 RA TUDOR 12
3 Thomas Beaufort 1405 - 31 Dec 1432 d unmarried
3vvv Edmund Beaufort KG abt 1406 - 22 May 1455 RA SOMERSET 12
>>>> Descendants SEE OWN TABLE
3==m. (bef 21 Oct 1434) Eleanor Beauchamp Sep 1408 - 06 Mar 1467
3vvv Margaret (Beaufort) Courtenay abt 1408 - Nov 1449 RA follows in SOMERSET
>>>> Descendants SEE OWN TABLE
3==m. (aft 1421) Thomas Courtenay 1414 - 03 Feb 1458 3s Th, Hen, Jn (cleric) 5d Joan, Eliz, Anne, Maud, Eleanor (Eliz in RA: m but no issue)
3 Jean Beaufort abt 1410 - 15 Jul 1445 ??? Not in RA. Note name is same as Joan, above, and she has clearly been given the same death date and place, despite that being in Scotland (exact birth date not given for either).
4 Thomas Wilcox abt 1450 - abt 1500 disconnect?
2vv Henry Beaufort abt 1374 - 11 Apr 1447 Cleric with children.
>>> Descendants SEE OWN TABLE
2 Thomas (Lancaster) Beaufort KG abt Jan 1377 - 31 Dec 1426 RA:LANCASTER says 1s Henry
2==m. (bef 17 Apr 1401) Margaret Neville abt 1383 - bef 29 Apr 1424 Wrong father. Probable bad merge. Her real father was Furnival's 4th cousin 1x removed, Thomas Neville of Hornby, dead by 1387 leaving Margaret as sole heiress to her grandfather Sir Robert Neville-187. She was succeeded by her aunt Margaret Harrington and cousin John Langton. Farrer.
3 Henry Beaufort - bef 31 Dec 1426 Richardson says no issue
2vv Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG 1379 - 13 Nov 1440 HAS 2 TABLES for 2 HUSBANDS
2=1=m1. (bef 30 Sep 1390) Robert Ferrers abt 1372 - bef 29 Nov 1396 WEM 13 V.5. p.340
>>> Descendants SEE OWN TABLE
2=2=m2. (bef 29 Nov 1396) Ralph Neville KG, PC abt 1364 - 21 Oct 1425 RA: NEVILLE 13. V.4. p233 says 9s (Rich, Hen, Th, Cuthbert, bshp Robert, Wm, Jn, Geo, Edw) 5d (Joan nun, Kath, Eleanor, Anne, Cecily)
>>> Descendants SEE OWN TABLE

Conclusion: this table does not go to 5th generation, but needs to be tracked to sub-tables on this webpage first.

Proposed:

  • Morieux descendants need to be disconnected. DONE.
  • Jean Beaufort and her Wilcox son also look dubious.

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John of Gaunt's son King Henry IV

#01234 5 _______________________________________________ _______________________________________ - Notes
2vv Henry (Lancaster) of England KG [Henry IV] 15 Apr 1367 - 20 Mar 1413 Mention of a baby, lived 1 day 1382? RA V.3 p.500 LANCASTER says 1 illeg s by an unknown mistress, Edmund de Boorde, Canon of Eigne.
3 Edmund Labourde, illeg. abt 1387 - abt 1392 cleric, no children mentioned in RA
2=2=m2. (7 Feb 1403) Jeanne Evreux abt 1370 - abt 10 Jul 1437 no children mentioned in RA
2=1=m1. (bef 11 Feb 1381) Mary Bohun LG abt 1369 - 04 Jul 1394 RA V.3 p.500 LANCASTER says 7 children (1st child b. abt 1383, shortlived). Ian Mortimer, Fears of Henry IV, App 3, says this child was not Henry's, but a misunderstanding of the records. The baby was Humphrey de Bohun.
3 Henry (Lancaster) England KG [Henry V] 16 Sep 1387 - 31 Aug 1422 King Henry V
3==m. (2 Jun 1420) Catherine Valois 27 Oct 1401 - 03 Jan 1437 1s
4 Henry (Lancaster) of England [Henry VI] 06 Dec 1421 - abt May 1471 King Henry VI.
4==m. (23 Apr 1445) Margaret Anjou 23 Mar 1430 - 25 Aug 1482 1s
5 Edward (Lancaster) of Lancaster [Prince of Wales] [UNC] 13 Oct 1453 - 04 May 1471 UNC in this case represents claims made in his own lifetime. no issue
3 Thomas (Lancaster) of Lancaster KG KB [Duke of Clarence] 29 Sep 1388 - abt 22 Mar 1420 Clarence. RA says one illeg son.
4 John of Clarence, illeg. 1400 - 1450 Article now made. "Bastard of Clarence" RA mentions no wife or children, but certainly lived to adulthood and there are claims of descendants around. Comment by Richardson: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.genealogy.medieval/GXgwyWtuSzk
3==m. (abt 10 Nov 1412) Margaret Holland abt 1385 - bef 08 Jan 1440 His uncle's widow. RA says no issue
3vvv John (Lancaster) of Lancaster KG KB [Duke of Bedford] abt 20 Jun 1389 - 14 Sep 1435 Bedford. RA says 1 illeg son Richard Esq, and 1 dau Mary
4 Isabel of Lancaster Plantagenet 1420 - 1463 ??? Does not appear in RA. remove? // If she is this person then highly dubious because Lancaster was a common gentry name in that region. More likely the one in France? (In which case she has wrong father?)
4vvvv Mary (Lancaster) de Lancaster 1434 - 1458 illeg RA says m. Pierre de Montferrand and had 3s (Th of Aiguille, Bertrand of Montbadon, François of Uzeste and Portets, 1d Mathilde)
4= =m. Pierre II de Montferrand Soudan de La Trau, Seigneur de Lesparre. Genealogics. Richardson posted this descent (someone else's work?)

See Roglo's record just listing one son, François (see below).

5????? Thomas of Aiguille apparently "mort jeune vers 1470."
5????? Bertrand of Montbadon apparently "mort jeune vers 1470. Ils donnent tous deux le 28 juillet I466 des fiefs dans la paroisse de Colles aux Jacobins de St-Emilion."
5vvvvv François of Uzeste and Portets Genealogics. See Bailly.

See also Roglo's, where he is named François de Montferrand.

5????? Mathilde
4???? Richard of Lancaster Plantagenet 1435 - 1491 legitimated and married, but line apparently not traced (says RA). Was made an honorary member of the guild of merchant taylors, as "Richard Bedford". Still alive in 1452.
4= =m. Isabel RA V.3 p.507 says Isabel was widow successively of John Boys Esq. of Chaldwell Essex (living 1409) and Nicholas Rickhill Esq. (living 1430, d bef July 1432). Also she was daughter or grand daughter of Margaret de Halughton (living 1407). Apparently died 1443, before her husband.
3=1=m1. (bef 15 May 1423) Anne Bourgogne abt May 1404 - 14 Nov 1432 RA says died in childbirth, no surviving issue
3=2=m2. (22 Apr 1433) Jacquette Luxembourg Jul 1416 - 30 May 1472 RA says no issue
3vvv Humphrey (Lancaster) of Lancaster KG, KB [Duke of Gloucester] abt Oct 1390 - 23 Feb 1447 RA says 1 illeg son Arthur and 1d Antigone
4???? Arthur of Gloucester, illeg. 1420 involved in a rebellion. profile made
4vvvv Antigone (Lancaster) Grey, illeg. abt 1428 - aft Jun 1451 m twice, second to a Frenchman Jean d'Amancy (Leo van der Pas thought too late in life to have more children)
4=1=m. () Henry Grey 1419 - 13 Jan 1450 RA LLOYD 9 V.3 p.589 confirms 2s Rich, Humphrey 1d Eliz
5vvvvv Richard Grey 05 Nov 1436 - 17 Dec 1466 RA says knight and Lord Grey of Powis. Wikitree equates to the one in Touchet table.
5vvvvv Humphrey Grey abt 1438 RA gives no further information. But Cracroft website says he married Eleanor, a daughter who does not appear in RA in the TUCHET 15 family. It says they had issue. Genealogics says Humphrey did not have issue? But Welsh sources claim he had a son John, ancestor of the Vaughns of Llwydiarth. Pedigree. Here is a statement of the problem, showing a quartered shield for "umffre grae" and his wife, it seems, "merch arglwyd awdle" (girl of the Lord Audley), noting his brother certainly married such an Audley girl. There seems enough information around to be confident of at least a few more generations, eg, in this visitation
5vvvvv Elizabeth (Grey) Kynaston abt 1440 - aft 1501 RA confirms m Roger Kynaston and says 4s Humph, Lanc, Rich, Oliver, 5d Marg (m. Richard Hanmer), Ermin (m. John ap John Euton/Eyton), Mary, Jane (m. Th Corbet, Ieuan Llwyd, Edw Sackville), Jane (again)
5 Joan? David Topping wrote: "As well as a sister Elizabeth, wife of Roger Kynaston, Bartrum identifies a sister called Jonet who married Ieuan ap John and had issue. ". Also see here
4=2=m. () Jean d'Amancy Or d'Amancier An ecuyer (squire) who worked on royal business internationally. RA only notes isolated events. Van der Pas noted that Cahiers de Saint Louis, page 835 describes the match as sans posterité. But it seems the family continued (in Savoie). Here is the family seat.
3=1=m1. (9 Feb 1423) Jacqueline Wittelsbach 25 Jul 1401 - 08 Oct 1436 RA says no issue
3=2=m2. (1428) Eleanor Cobham abt 1400 - 07 Jul 1452 RA says no issue
3 Blanche Lancaster 1392 - 21 May 1409 m. Ludwig III. // Should be merged with Of_England-273. Had 1s, who shows on that other profile and had no issue himself // Now merged
3==m. Ludwig (von Pfalz) Bayern 23 Jan 1378 - 30 Dec 1436
4 Ruprecht (von der Pfalz) Bayern 22 May 1406 - 20 May 1426
3??? Philippa Lancaster 1393 - abt 05 Jan 1428 RA and MEDLANDS only mention 1 husband, Erik. Neither mention any living issue
3=1=m. (26 Oct 1406) Bogislaw Pommern [Erik VII of Norway] bef Jan 1382 - bef 16 Jun 1459

Conclusion at 5th generation: 2 illegitimate 4th generation lines have further descendants in this table: Antigone daughter of Humphrey, and Mary daughter of John of Bedford, who had children in Gascony. Genealogics. See table on second project webpage for the ones known to have children.

Note: descendants of Richard Grey of Powis are followed further on Touchet table (and see also second project page).

Worth further study?


To do:

  • Seems to be an extra Isabel?



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Philippa and her Iberian line

Genealogics descendants table for Philippa. The story starts in Portugal.

#01234 5 _______________________________________________ _______________________________________ - Notes
2vv Philippa (Lancaster) Portugal LG 31 Mar 1359 - 19 Jul 1415 RA says 6s, 3d (matches WT). MEDLANDS names 12 children (WT 9), but 6 died young. Genealogics shows 9. With children showing in ML and Genealogics are Edward, Pedro, Isabel, João, all in Wikitree already. (The extra ones in MEDLANDS are Leonor #6, Juana #11, Diniz #12 ; all marked as d young)
2==m. (2 Feb 1387) ♔King John (João) I of Portugal 11 Apr 1357 - 14 Aug 1433 Not followed in RA except the Burgundy marriage.
3 Blanche (of Lancaster) Lancaster abt 13 Jul 1388 - 06 Mar 1389 RA and MEDLANDS. MEDLANDS names two Brancas who both died young, another in 1398
3 Afonso (of Lancaster) Lancaster abt 30 Jul 1390 - 22 Dec 1400 RA and MEDLANDS. died young
3vvv King Edward (Duarte) I of Portugal KG 31 Oct 1391 - 13 Sep 1438 RA and MEDLANDS call him Duarte. King of Portugal. line followed in MEDLANDS, which gives 9 legit and 1 illeg children. Genealogics agrees. With issue in both are Afonso, Fernando, Leonor, and Juana, plus João Manoel the illeg son.
4???? João Manoel Illegitimate monk and archbishop with 2 illegitimate kids Genealogics. BUT Portuguese Wikipedia says NOT a son of the King.
5????? Nunho I Manoel, Seigneur de Salvaterra Genealogics shows lots of descendants
5????? Joao Manoel, 1.Grand-alcade de Santarem Genealogics traces 4 generations.
3==m. (4 Nov 1428) Leonora de Aragon 1402 - 19 Feb 1445
4vvvv King Afonso V of Portugal 15 Jan 1432 - 28 Aug 1481 now added to this family.
5????? Alvaro, illeg Issue by 2nd marriage? // Wikipedia: Afonso V of Portugal. Only appears in unsourced English Wikipedia article.
4=1=m. (6 May 1447) Isabella (Aviz) of Coimbra 01 Mar 1432 - 02 Dec 1455 cousin also see below in this table children need adding
5 João d. young MEDLANDS: "Infante dom JOÃO de Portugal (Sintra 29 Jan 1451-before 1455, bur Batalla)."
5 Joana Saint Joan. Dominican nun. Was regent.
5vvvvv King João II of Portugal married his cousin, sister of Manuel I (who appears twice on this table!)
4=2=m. () 2nd wife no issue from this marriage // Wikipedia: Afonso V of Portugal
4vvvv Fernando Aviz 17 Nov 1433 - 18 Sep 1470 MEDLANDS gives 10 children, apart from Manoel, there are João, Leonor (m. cousin and had issue), Isabel, Diego (issue named) + 5 who died young. Genealogics names children for Isabel.
4==m. (1452) Beatrice Aviz - 1506 cousin also see below in this table (children shown below only)
5vvvvv King Manuel I abt 31 May 1469 - 13 Dec 1521 King of Portugal
5vvvvv Leonor de Portugal m her cousin King João II of Portugal. Descendants at least through Jorge de Lancastre
5vvvvv Diego de Portugal Medlands Had children with Leonor de Sotomayor, wife of Alfonso de Aragón Duque de Villahermosa
5vvvvv Isabella de Portugal Genealogics shows descendants
5 6 more kids for Fernando + Beatrice 5 died young and Joao was Duke but MEDLANDS and Genealogics seem to think no issue
4vvvv Leonor (Aviz) de Portugal 18 Sep 1434 - 03 Sep 1467
4==m. () ♔Emperor Friedrich Habsburg V(III), H.R 21 Sep 1415 - 19 Aug 1493 MEDLANDS names 5 children, but 3 died young
5vvvvv Maximilian (Habsburg) Österreich 22 Mar 1459 - 12 Jan 1519 had issue, including many illegitimate
5vvvvv Kunigunde (Hapsburg) Wittelsbach 1465 - 1520 married, but MEDLANDS does not seem to follow further
5 3 more kids for Leonor + Friedrich apparently all died young
4 5 more kids for Edward + Leonora apparently none had children
4vvvv Juana Mar 1439 - 12 Dec 1475 (posthumous) MEDLANDS says m King Enrique IV "the impotent" of Castilla y Leon (1d) and was mistress to Pedro de Castilla great grandson of Castilla-79 (2s Andres, who seems to have issue, and Pedro)
5vvvvv Andres "m MENCÍA de Quiñones de Banares, daughter of JUAN de Banares & his wife Beatriz de Quiñones. Their descendants bore the surname "de Castilla y Portugal"." MEDLANDS calls their continuing family "Castilla of Guadalajara".
5vvvvv Pedro mentioned in MEDLANDS, has WP article and seems to have founded a Castilla line in the Canary islands
4==m. () ♔King Enrique IV of Castile el Impotente
5 Juana Apparently no issue or marriage
3vvv Pedro (Aviz) de Coimbra 09 Dec 1392 - 20 May 1449 RA and MEDLANDS. MEDLANDS gives a wife Isabel of Urgel and names 6 children. Only 2 show daughters seem to have had children.
3==m. Isabella de Urgel Genealogics
4 Beatrice now connected to this family
4==m. Adolf von Kleve MEDLANDS says 2 children, Phillip and Louise. Louisa not yet followed in MEDLANDS or WT?
5????? Louise Genealogics shows exact death date, but shows no husband or children
5 Philip MEDLANDS shows no issue, but a wife. WT gives no surname or wife. Married but 2 children from different mistresses it seems.
5==m. Françoise de Luxembourg, Comtesse d'Enghien , Genealogics.
4vvvv Isabella (Aviz) of Coimbra 01 Mar 1432 - 02 Dec 1455 MEDLANDS says she married cousin Afonso son of Duarte. Names 3 children, 1 with issue, João, whose son Afonso married Isabel (who has an article that only mentions her other husband) .
4==m. (6 May 1447) Afonso Aviz 15 Jan 1432 - 28 Aug 1481 cousin also see above in this table children not in WT? MEDLANDS says 3, 1 died young, 1 a nun, and 1 was King João II of Portugal who m Leonor his first cousin, daughter of Fernando and Brites/Beatrice.
>>>>> Descendants of this marriage See above
4???? Pedro of Portugal Genealogics. b. 9 Dec 1392, d. 20 May 1449, Alfarrobeira (in battle). MEDLANDS calls Constable of Portugal.
4???? João of Portugal Duke of Coimbra. Regent of Cyprus and Prince of Antioch 1456. m. Charlotte de Lusignan, princess of Cyprus who was in line for that throne. She married again.
4 Jaime of Portugal Bishop of Airas 1453. Archbishop of Lisbon 1453. Titular Bishop of Paphos 1454. Cardinal-deacon 1456.
4 Phillipa Nun at convent of Odivellas 1493.
3??? Henrique (Aviz) de Avis 04 Mar 1394 - 13 Nov 1460 MEDLANDS mentions no children
3vvv Isabella (of Lancaster) Portugal 21 Feb 1397 - 11 Dec 1471 RA and MEDLANDS give 3 sons: Antoine, Josse, Charles. WT misses Antoine, but apparently died young
3=1=m. () Phillip III of Burgundy merge proposed (lnab issue) Phillip the Good
3=1=m. (7 Jan 1430) Philippe De Bourgogne 31 Jul 1396 - 15 Jun 1467 merge proposed (lnab issue) Phillip the Good
4 Josse (Capet-Valois de Bourgogne) Bourgogne died young
4vvvv Charles (Capet-Valois de Bourgogne) Bourgogne 21 Nov 1433 - 05 Jan 1477 Charles the Bold. had issue
4=1=m1. (19 May 1440) Catherine de Valois abt 1428 - 13 Sep 1446
4=2=m2. (30 Oct 1454) Isabelle De Bourbon abt 1436 - 25 Sep 1465 MEDLANDS says 2nd wife, and only one showing issue (1 daughter, Marie)
5vvvvv Marie (Bourgogne) de Bourgogne 13 Feb 1457 - 27 Mar 1482 MEDLANDS says married twice, but no issue from other one. Had issue from Maximilian (above)
4=3 =m3. (3 Jul 1468) Margaret York 03 May 1446 - 23 Nov 1503
4???? Antoine
3 Blanche of Lancaster abt 11 Apr 1398 - 27 Jul 1398 RA and MEDLANDS. The second Branca also died young.
3vvv João (Aviz) Portugal 13 Jan 1400 - 18 Oct 1442 had issue MEDLANDS mentions Diego, Isabel, Brites, Filippa
3= =m. (1424) Isabella Braganza 1414 - 1476 MEDLANDS calls Isabel de Portugal
4vvvv Beatrice Aviz - 1506 Presumably same as Brites. MEDLANDS names 10 children. see above
4= =m. (1452) Fernando Aviz 17 Nov 1433 - 18 Sep 1470 cousin also see above in this table
>>>>> Descendants of this marriage See above
4vvvv Isabella (Aviz) de Castilla 1428 - 15 Aug 1496 MEDLANDS names 2 children, Isabel and Alfonso
4==m. () King Juan II Castilla 06 Mar 1405 - 20 Jul 1454 See Catalina table Goes more generations in that table.
>>>>> Descendants of this marriage See below
4???? more kids for João and Isabella Genealogics and MEDLANDS both only mention Diego, Constable of Portugal in 1442, d. 1443.
3??? Fernando (of Lancaster) Lancaster 29 Sep 1402 - 05 Jun 1443 No wife or children mentioned on MEDLANDS or Genealogics, died a hostage
3??? more kids for Philippa and João? The extra ones in MEDLANDS compared to RA and Genealogics are Leonor #6, Juana #11, Diniz #12 ; all marked as d young.

Conclusion at 5th generation: Lines which continue are listed on second project page

To do:

  • Merge of the 2 Phillips of Burgundy
  • Portuguese and Burgundy lines (not in RA), and very incomplete. So far using MEDLANDS: Portugal, Burgundy.

Note:

  • The Catalina lines all seem to merge back into these ones except for Katherine of Aragon who merges into the Tudor line.

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John of Gaunt - Elizabeth

(Holland)

#01234 5 _______________________________________________ _______________________________________ - Notes
2vv Elizabeth (Lancaster) Holand LG abt 1362 - 24 Nov 1426
2=1=m1/3. (1380) John Hastings 1372 - Dec 1389 RA HASTINGS 14. V.3. p.263 says no issue
2=2=m2/3. (1387) John Holand KG abt 1355 - abt 16 Jan 1400 RA EXETER 10 V.2. p.533 says 3s Rich, Jn (EXETER 11), Edw (Count Mortain), 2d Constance, Alice (m Rich de Vere, VERE 7)
3vvv Constance (Holland) Grey abt 1387 - 14 Nov 1437 RA V.2. p.537 says 2 husbands MOWBRAY 7.i and GREY 12
3=1=m1. (bef 1405) Thomas II Mowbray 17 Sep 1385 - 08 Jun 1405 RA MOWBRAY 7.i says no issue
3=2=m2. (1410) John Grey 1387 - 27 Aug 1439 GREY 12 RA V.3. p.130 says 2s Edmund and Thomas, and 1d Constance. Also m. Marg Mowbray but no issue
4???? Constance (Grey) de Grey 1414 RA says m. Richard Herbert, knight
4==m. Richard Herbert, knight
4vvvv Edmund Grey 26 Oct 1416 - 22 May 1490 RA GREY 14 had issue
4==m. () Katherine Percy 18 May 1423 - 1499 RA says 3s Anthony, Geo, John, 2d Eliz Anne.
>>>>> Descendants of this marriage See #Kent
4 Thomas (Grey) de Grey 1418 - Dec 1461
4==m. (14 Feb 1445) Margaret Ferrers 1406 - 16 Jan 1452 RA WILTON 12, V.5. p.373: no child mentioned
4==m. (aft 2 Sep 1456) Joan Tiptoft abt 1425 - bef 25 Jun 1494 RA INGALDESTHORPE 12 V.3 p.393 no issue
4 Alice (Grey) Knyvett abt 1435 - 04 Apr 1474 Not showing in RA GREY line // Wrong mother. Detach.[4] DONE (Mother corrected)
4==m. () William Knyvet 1440 - bef 02 Dec 1515 branch not connected in RA
5 Edmund Knyvett abt 1460 - 1504 branch not connected in RA
3 Richard Holland 1389 - 03 Sep 1400
3 Alice (Holland) de Vere [nc] abt 1392 - 1406
3==m. (bef 1399) Richard de Vere KG 1385 - 15 Feb 1417 RA VERE 7 V.5. p.262 no issue
3vvv John (Holland) de Holland abt 18 Mar 1395 - 05 Aug 1447 RA EXETER 11
4???? Sir William Holand PA // "Bastard of Exeter" RA. V.2. p.541
4???? Thomas Holand PA // "Bastard of Exeter" RA. V.2. p.541
4vvvv Robert Holland abt 1461 - abt 1502 PA // "Bastard of Exeter" RA. V.2. p.541, names daughter Jane m. twice KENDAL 13
4==m. Margaret
>>>>> Descendants of this marriage See #Kendall
4 John Holand, cleric PA // cleric
4 William Holand, cleric PA // cleric
3=1=m. () Anne Stafford abt 1399 - 20 Sep 1432 RA says 1s Henry, 1d Anne Also see Stafford table
4vvvv Anne (Holland) Douglas abt 1430 - 26 Dec 1486 daughter of Stafford
4=1=m1. (bef 18 Feb 1441) John Neville aft 1421 - abt Mar 1450 Do not merge RA NEVILLE 14.i.a.
4=2=m2. (bef 5 Feb 1452) John Neville abt 1410 - 29 Mar 1461 Do not merge RA NEVILLE 15
5vvvvv Ralph Neville KB, 3rd Earl abt 1456 - 06 Feb 1498
4=3=m3. (aft 1461) James Douglas KG abt 1412 - 22 May 1491 RA see NEVILLE 15
4 Henry Holland 27 Jun 1430 - Sep 1475 RA EXETER 11.i says 1d Anne m Th Grey
5 Thomas Holland [no mother] abt 1461 - abt 1502 Not in RA. Remove? Unsourced
Henry's marriage and descendants See #York
3=3=m. () Anne Montagu abt 1384 - 27 Nov 1457 RA says no issue
3=2=m. (Jan 1433) Beatrice of Portugal abt 1382 - 23 Oct 1439 RA says no issue
3 Ann (Holland) de Holland abt 1397 ???Not named in RA by Richardson
3 Edward Holland [nc] 1399 - 1413 Count of Mortain. Seems to have died young
2=3=m3/3. (bef 12 Dec 1400) John Cornwall KG abt 1360 - Dec 1443 RA APPLETON 13, EXETER 10, V.2. p.535 says 1s John (d. unmarried), 1d Constance (m. Jn Arundel ARUNDEL 11.i)
3 Constance (Cornwall) Arundel [nc] aft 1401 - abt 1427
3==m. () John Arundel 14 Feb 1408 - 12 Jun 1435 RA ARUNDEL 11.i V.1. p.154 says no issue
3 John Cornwall [nc] abt 1404 - 1422 d. unmarried

Conclusion at 5th generation: Ralph Neville has ongoing descendants. To go further, see second project page.

Worth further study.

  • What about Constance Grey and Richard Herbert? // All over the internet, always the same, no kids, no source, no further info. Cokayne doesn't do kids, most peerages don't do extinct, Burke's Extinct skips over the Greys of Ruthin before the 1st Earl. Nothing in Banks's Extinct or Baronia or Dugdale's Baronage.
  • Exeter bastards.

To do.

  • Ann Holland in gen 3 looks dubious
  • Alice Grey Knyvett needs disconnection
  • Thomas Holland looks dubious

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Kent

#01234 5 _______________________________________________ _______________________________________ - Notes
4vvvv Edmund Grey [of Ruthin, 1st Earl of Kent 26 Oct 1416 - 22 May 1490 RA GREY 14 had issue
4==m. () Katherine Percy 18 May 1423 - 1499 RA says 3s Anthony, Geo, John, 2d Eliz Anne.
5 Anthony Grey 1443 - bef 27 Nov 1480 RA V.3 p.132. Heir apparent, m. Joan Wydeville but dvp, no issue
5vvvvv Elizabeth (Grey) Greystoke 1448 - 18 Jul 1472 RA p.134 m Rob Greystoke GREYSTOKE 15
5vvvvv Anne Grey 1450 - 15 Jan 1514 RA p.134 m John Grey WILTON 14 6s 3d V.5. p.375
5 John Grey aft 1455 - 08 Dec 1494 mentioned but not tracked in RA, probably no issue. See eg this history which says in fact there were two sons John and Edmund who died young.
5vvvvv George Grey [2nd Earl] abt 1460 - 25 Dec 1505 RA V.3 p.133 says 2 wives. 1s Richard to Anne Wydeville; 3s 1d to Katherine Herbert (Hen, Geo, Anth, Anne m. John Hussey). Richard on p.134 no issue w 2 wives // Presumably older than John
5 Charles Grey [UNC] 1459 Parents marked as uncertain. Does not appear in RA

Conclusion at 5th generation: At the 5th generation George Grey is the one to continue. See second project page.

Followed further on Lionel of Antwerp descent page

Siblings of George handled in other tables:

Worth further study.

  • John Grey. mentioned but not tracked in RA, probably no issue

Proposals:

  • Charles needs to be challenged/removed

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Kendall

#01234 5 _______________________________________________ _______________________________________ - Notes
4vvvv Robert Holland abt 1461 - abt 1502 PA // "Bastard of Exeter" RA. V.2. p.541, names daughter Jane m. twice KENDAL 13
4==m. Margaret
5vvvvv Jane Holland Gateway line RA V.3. KENDALL. 3 sons with John Kendall (Edm, Wm, Walter), 1 daughter with 2nd husband John Trelawney (Jane, wife of John Widesale/Wynslade). Walter is followed in RA KENDALL 14. [5]
5????? Elizabeth ??? Not mentioned in RA Genealogics says she married John Riskimir, and that with her sister petitioned King Henry VII, asking restoration of the lands which their father Robert had been given by his brother Henry, duke of Exeter.

Conclusion at the 5th generation: Jane Holland has descendants. See table on second project page.

Worth further study:

  • Elizabeth, Jane's sister. (Not in RA)




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John of Gaunt's daughter Catalina/Katherine of Castilla

Genealogics descendants table for Catalina.

#01234 5 _______________________________________________ _______________________________________ - Notes
2vv Katherine (Lancaster) de Castilla LG 31 Mar 1373 - 02 Jun 1418 RA V.3. p.498 says 1s, 2d. WT is missing Catalina, wife Enrique of Aragon [5]. Apparently she died in childbirth.
2==m. () Enrique III the infirm of Castilla 04 Oct 1379 - 25 Dec 1406 Genealogics. MEDLANDS RA says 1s 2d and MEDLANDS agrees. Missing is daughter Catalina who married Alfonso Aragon-80's brother Enrique (no obvious profile).
3 Maria de Castilla 14 Nov 1401 - 07 Sep 1458 appears in both RA and MEDLANDS
3==m. (12 Jun 1415) Alfonso V dAragona 1394 - 12 Jun 1458 MEDLANDS // Merge with Alfonso Aragon-80
4 Leonor dAragona 1421 - 09 Dec 1449 MEDLANDS says illeg child, and Maria was not the mother.
4==m. () Giovanni Francesco Mariano Marzano 1420 - 1494 MEDLANDS says illeg child, and Maria was not the mother.
5 Maria Marzano DAragona 1440 - 1460 disconnect this line?
3 Catalina Genealogics, MEDLANDS. 3 sibs married 3 sibs, who were closer than cousins - their fathers were brothers, their mothers were half first cousins
3==m. () Enrique of Aragon Genealogics. brother of Juan II and Maria // http://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p1737.htm#i52209 // had a son by a 2nd wife
3vvv Juan (Castilla) Trastámara 06 Mar 1405 - 20 Jul 1454 King of Castile and Leon. MEDLANDS names 4 children by 1st wife, and 2 children by 2nd wife, Isabel and Alfonso. Alfonso seems to have died unmarried
3=1=m. () Maria of Aragon  MEDLANDS // sister of Alfonso V, daughter of Leonor Urraca (who was granddaughter of Alfonso XI) (triple sibling marriage) // not connected to spouse or kids on WT
4 Enrique IV el Impotente MEDLANDS
4=1=m. () Blanche - 1464 no issue on MEDLANDS
4=2=m. () Juana of Portugal
Descendants of this marriage Only 1 d Joana/Juana. Also see Phillipa table
4 3 more kids for Juan and Maria MEDLANDS lists Catalina, Leonor, and Maria, all died young
3=2=m. () Isabella Aviz 1428 - 15 Aug 1496 See Phillipa table (descendants followed here)
4vvvv Isabella (Castilla) de Castilla y León 22 Apr 1451 - 26 Nov 1504 MEDLANDS says she married Fernando II, King of Aragon, Sicily, Naples and Mallorca.
4==m. (19 Oct 1469) Fernando Aragón 10 Mar 1452 - 23 Jan 1516 MEDLANDS King of Aragon, Sicily, Naples and Mallorca. Names 6 children (Isabel, Juan, Juana, Maria, Catalina + 1 stillborn twin to Maria
>>>>> Descendants of this marriage See also Table 002
5 Isabella Aragón 02 Oct 1470 - 23 Aug 1498 MEDLANDS says married twice: 1.Afonso of Portugal, great grandson of King Duarte; 2. Manoel I, King of Portugal (See Phillipa table). Her 1 d to Manoel is not in WT.
5 John Aragón 30 Jun 1478 - 04 Oct 1497 Juan. MEDLANDS says he married Margareta of Austria and had one child who died young. Marriage in WT but not the child.
5vvvvv Joanna Trastamara 06 Nov 1479 - 12 Apr 1555 MEDLANDS says m. Phillip of Austria.
5vvvvv Maria (Aragon) Aragón 29 Jun 1482 - 07 Mar 1517 m. King Manoel I, her sisters second husband
5 Catherine (Aragón) of England 15 Dec 1485 - 08 Jan 1536 AKA Catalina. m. Henry VIII and his brother. 1d with no issue
4 Alfonso

Conclusion at 5th generation: At 5 generations, all lines going into modern times are already covered in the Phillipa (Portugal) table. So this table has no continuation on the second project page.

Proposed "to do":

  • The children of Maria and Alfonso seem to need disconnection from their mother?

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John Beaufort

John of Gaunt -> John Beaufort -> Scottish Joan Beaufort

Jean: Genealogics

#01234 5 ______________________________________________ _______________________________________ - Notes
2vv John Beaufort KG, 1st Earl m. Margaret Holland
3vvv Joan (Beaufort) Stewart abt 1398 - abt 15 Jul 1445 PA 3:224 fn119, 120 list some otherwise unlisted immigrants //
3=1=m1. (Feb 1424) ♔King James Stewart I 25 Jul 1394 - 21 Feb 1437 Do not merge with 2nd husband with same name. This is RA BRUS 12 V.1 p.657 says 8 children: Marg (m. Louis XI of France), Isab (m Franc I of Brit), Jean (m. Douglas w gateways not traced in RA), Alex (d. young), James (king), Mary (issue w 2 men in Europe), Eleanor (no issue), Annabelle (m Savoy and Gordon),
4 Margaret Stewart 1424 - 16 Aug 1445
4==m. () ♔Louis XI of France RA says no issue
4vvvv Isabella Elizabeth (Stewart) Bretagne 1426 - 05 Mar 1449 Many descendants
4==m. () Duke Of Brittany Francis I   lnab RA says 2 daughters Marg (m Franc II) and Marie (m Jean II de Rohan)
5 Marguerite m Francis II, Duke of Britanny MEDLANDS. One son Francois who died as a baby
5vvvvv Marie of Brittany Had issue with her husband Jean II de Rohan. See Genealogics. MEDLANDS.
4 Jean Stewart 1428 - 1493 merge with sister? Joan, Jean, Janet all equivalent names
4vvvv Joan Janet Stewart abt 1428 - 16 Oct 1486 merge with sister? Joan, Jean, Janet all equivalent names
4==m. () William Gordon 1430 - 1455 RA does not mention this husband. disconnect? // Sources do not even name his wife
4==m. (bef 15 May 1459) James Douglas abt 1426 - 22 Oct 1493 1st Earl of Morton. RA says 2s John (2nd Earl Morton), James (not in WT); 2d Janet (m Pat Hepburn, Earl Bothwell) and Eliz. RA says there are modern descendants not traced in RA itself.
5 John Gordon bef 1450 - 11 May 1517 RA does not mention this son. disconnect?
5vvvvv John Douglas 1459 - abt 09 Sep 1513 RA says 2 Earl Morton. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Douglas,_2nd_Earl_of_Morton Wikipedia]. Genealogics shows same 4 children as Wikitree (so no James). Cracroft shows James.
5 James Douglas dvp under age. Does appear in Cracroft website. The Scots Peerage says he is only known from writs.
5vvvvv Janet (Douglas) Hepburn 1461 - 22 Feb 1490 RA says m Pat Hepburn, Earl Bothwell.
5????? Elizabeth Douglas abt 1463 - 1492 descendants? no sign of any in most sources, but Wikitree gives her some. The Scots Peerage says she is only known from one charter.
4 Mary (Stewart) Borselen abt 1429 - 1465
4==m. () WOLFERT VI of Borselen   RA says 2s Charles and John both d young
5 kids http://genealogy.richardremme.com/tng/getperson.php?personID=I4909&tree=tree01
4 Alexander Stewart 1430 RA says died young
4vvvv King James II Stewart 16 Oct 1430 - 03 Aug 1460 RA BRUS 13. RA also names an illegitimate son John m Muriel Sutherland and had issue (not in WT?)
5????? James Stewart abt 1450 - 11 Sep 1523 Who is this?? Death date hard to match with any of the Jameses in this family // Should be John not James. The illegitimate son, m Muriel Sutherland.[6] See Scots Peerage also.
4==m. (3 Jul 1449) Maria Egmond-Gelre 17 Jan 1433 - 16 Nov 1463 RA says 4s King James III, Alex, David, John; 2d Mary and Marg
5 Elizabeth Stewart RA does not name this child. disconnect?
5 Child Stewart 19 May 1450 - 19 May 1450 Who is this??
5vvvvv King James Stewart of Scotland 10 Jul 1451 - 20 Jun 1488 King James III BRUS 14. Had issue. RA says born May 1452
5vvvvv Mary (Stewart) Hamilton 16 May 1452 - abt May 1488
5vvvvv Alexander Stewart 1454 - 07 Aug 1485 Genealogics
5 David Stewart abt 1456 - 18 Jul 1457 RA does not say what happened to him.Genealogics shows he died as a young child
5????? John Stewart 1457 - Apr 1479 RA does not say what happened to the legitimate son John, and neither does WT. Genealogics seems to think he had no issue. See Scots Peerage also which states that he died in jail, unmarried.
5vvvvv Margaret Stewart of Scotlan 1460 - 1512 RA says m William Crichton, and "they had one illegitimate daughter, Margaret" Had issue. change lnab
4 Eleanor Stewart 1433 - 20 Nov 1480
4==m. () Archduke Of Austria Sigismund   RA says no issue
4vvvv Annabella (Stewart) de Savoie 1435 - Jun 1509
4=1=m. (abt 1447 to 1458) Louis Savoie 05 Jun 1431 - abt 16 Jul 1482 RA says marriage dissolved while still young
4=2=m. (Mar 1459 to 1471) George Gordon bef 1441 - 08 Jun 1501 RA says 1d Isabel // Genealogics shows lots of kids by 3rd wife and 1 by mistress, though the lists don't match well.
5 Ann Gordon 1455 - 1492 RA does no mention this daughter disconnect?
5 Elizabeth (Gordon) Keith abt 1462 - abt 22 Apr 1525 RA does no mention this daughter disconnect?
5 Janet (Gordon) Gray abt 1462 - abt 1558 RA does no mention this daughter disconnect?
5vvvvv Isabella (Gordon) Hay 1464 - bef 1485 RA says she married William Hay 3s (William and Thomas in ET, plus master John 1d Beatrix who was contracted to marry Alexander Keith (not in WT)
5 Elizabeth Gordon 1467 RA does no mention this daughter disconnect?
5 Margaret Jean (Gordon) Hepburn abt 1470 RA does no mention this daughter disconnect?
5 Mary Gordon 1478 RA does no mention this daughter disconnect?
3=2=m2. (21 Sep 1439) James Stewart [of Lorn] abt 1383 - 17 Aug 1451 Do not merge with 1st husband. RA STEWART 12. RA V.5 p41 says 3s. The Black Knight of Lorn. 3 sons normally listed, John, James and Andrew (a bishop)
4vvvv John Stewart abt 1440 - 15 Sep 1512 RA STEWART 13. The first Earl of Atholl in this line. The Scots Peerage notes only a list of children and does not try to designate who the mothers were. (Should we mark those mother-child relationships as uncertain? Note the excess of Elizabeths and Margarets.
4=1=m1. (Mar 1460) Margaret Douglas abt 1430 - abt 1475 RA V.5 pp42ff says 3d Jean (m Alex Gordon p.44 see BARCLAY 14), Eliz (m Andrew Gray 2nd Lord Gray), Christian (m Neil Stewart of Forthergill and Garth. Genealogics does not mention Christian but does mention that "Janet" had issue with Alexander Gordon, 3rd Earl of Huntly
5vvvvv Elizabeth (Stewart) Gray aft 1460 m Andrew Gray 2nd Lord Gray
5 Christian Stewart 1473 - 30 May 1538 needs merge, but wrong mother (unless RA and Genealogics are wrong) Perhaps it is simply not clear who the mother was. See Scots Peerage.
5????? Christian Stewart abt 1476 - 30 May 1538 needs merge Apparently had children with Neil. Genealogics.
5vvvvv Joanna (Stewart) Gordon 1461 - 27 Oct 1510 Genealogics names 6 children, 4 with issue // See this G2G post for possible line to Rob Roy and chiefs of Clan Gregor
4=2=m2. (aft 1475) Eleanor Sinclair abt 19 Apr 1457 - 21 Mar 1519 RA says 2s John (m Janet Campbell) and Bishop Andrew and 9d Kath, Eliz/Isab, Marg, Jean, Eliz, Jean/Janet
5vvvvv Jean (Stewart) Arbuthnot - abt 19 Apr 1522 RA SPOTSWOOD 14
5vvvvv Katherine Stewart abt 1473 - abt 1515 RA says m John Forbes 6th Lord Forbes
5vvvvv Elspeth (Stewart) Innes 1474 - 1564 RA says m Robert Innes of Innermacky
5vvvvv Elizabeth (Stewart) Ross aft 1476 RA mentions an Elizabeth but m to John Stewart 3rd earl of Lennox not m to Ninian Ross.
5????? Margaret Stewart 1476 - 26 Jul 1524 This profile current has not children or husband but has been given the Campbell wife death date. To use this profile for the leftover Marge: RA mentions a Marg m to Robert Robertson the younger of Strowan. I presume we should make her on this profile?
5vvvvv John Stewart abt 1478 - abt 1521 2nd Earl of Atholl. Married Janet Campbell daughter of Archibald the second Earl of Argyll. Scots Peerage names 6 children.
5vvvvv Elizabeth (Stewart) Robertson abt 1480 RA calls her Elizabeth, not Isabel Name fixed now. Scots Peerage. m Alexander Robertson of Struan.
5????? Jean Stewart abt 1481 - 1550 RA mentions a Jean who m Robert Gordon of Pitlurg
5 Andrew Stewart abt 1485 - 1542 cleric
5vvvvv Margaret Stewart 1487 - 06 Jul 1524 RA mentions a Marg who m William Murray of Castletown. Scots Peerage says she was actually said to m his father William Murray of Tullibardine, but the son who died at Flodden is more likely. This is in the family of the Murrays who became Dukes of Atholl.
5vvvvv Marjory (Stewart) Campbell abt 1490 - abt 26 Jul 1524 RA says m one of the Colins Campbell of Glenorchy. Scots Peerage says she died 26 July 1524.
4vvvv James Stewart abt 1442 - abt 1499 RA says he also had illegitimate children incl James and Agnes. Genealogics adds a daughter Elizabeth who it says had issue. Scots Peerage calls him "hearty James". Says he had 1 legit son Alexander and several "natural children" by Margaret Murray, including James (legitimated and Earl of Traquair) and Agnes (m Adam Earl of Bothwell).
5vvvvv Agnes (Stewart) Maxwell abt 1472 - 20 Feb 1557 illeg RA mentions mistress of King James IV, and m Hepburn, Home, Rob Maxwell and Cuthbert Ramsey. Genealogics agrees and names various issue.
5vvvvv James Stewart abt 1480 - 09 Sep 1513 illeg. Genealogics says had issue
5vvvvv Elizabeth Stuart abt 1486 illeg Appears in Genealogics which confirms issue with Home
4==m. (27 Mar 1459) Margaret Ogilvy abt 1441 - aft 1469 RA says 1s Alex. Genealogics adds a daughter with name unknown who married William Abernethy, 5th Lord Saltoun, of Abernethy
5vvvvv Alexander Stewart aft 1459 - 1505 Genealogics says had issue.Scots Peerage mentions 2 wives and issue from second.
5 Margaret Jane (Stewart) Abernathy abt 1482 - 1530 does not appear in RA and double name looks very unusual for this time and place. disconnect?
5 Margaret (Stuart) Gordon abt 1484 Not named in RA or Genealogics.
4 Andrew Stewart 1443 - 29 Sep 1501 RA says cleric. Genealogics shows no issue

5th generation with descendants. See second project page. That listing should eventually be only for people known to have descendants.

Worth further study (and eventually moving to second page):

  • The 5th Gen Van Borsselen family seems not to have descendants. See http://genealogy.richardremme.com/tng/getperson.php?personID=I4909&tree=tree01
  • Elizabeth Douglas. descendants? Wikitree has married to a Ferguson, with child, Thomas Ferguson laird of Craigdarroch. Needs better sourcing to them? The Scots Peerage says she is only known from one charter.
  • John Stewart. RA does not say what happened to the legitimate son John, and neither does Wikitree. Genealogics seems to think he had no issue but he lived to adulthood.
  • Isabella (Gordon) Hay. Only child in this Gordon family where RA (and Genealogics) seems confident of that the mother is Annabella Stewart, so there might be more Gordon siblings who should be listed here. RA says she married William Hay 3s (William and Thomas in ET, plus master John 1d Beatrix who was contracted to marry Alexander Keith (not in WT, but Scots Peerage says there was no issue).

The Lorne family gives problems, and there is a detailed comment we can compare to by Brad Verity's threads concerning doubts about the daughters of John Stewart of Atholl, here and here:

  • Christian Stewart needs merge with Christian Stewart, but mother is a problem m Neil Stewart of Forthergill and Garth. Children need to be added on Wikitree. Her husband had 2 children (but 2 wives also). John died without issue. Marie inherited. Book about family shows pedigrees where her line continues. Also see Genealogics where her line stops. At least some people think Marie has descendants. Verity believes we can not be certain about who Christian's mother was, but mentions "She is called the third daughter of the 2nd wife in DP, and is listed as the 4th daughter in SP Atholl (1904). She is omitted in BEP and not mentioned in CP."
  • Margaret Stewart. This profile current has not children or husband but has been given the Campbell wife death date. To use this profile for the leftover Marge: RA mentions a Marg m to Robert Robertson the younger of Strowan. I presume we should make her on this profile? Verity however, doubts that this Margaret exists.

Proposals "to do":

Note:

  • It seems to be difficult to tell which children of George Gordon were to his wife Annabella Stewart, and therefore relevant to be listed. Only one is given by RA and listed above. Should the rest have their mothers marked as uncertain?

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John of Gaunt-> John Beaufort-> John Beaufort

#01234 5 ______________________________________________ _______________________________________ - Notes
2vv John Beaufort KG, 1st Earl m. Margaret Holland
3vvv John Beaufort KG, 1st Duke abt 25 Mar 1404 - 27 May 1444 Title should be "1st Duke of Somerset", lose the junior titles
4vvvv Thomasine Beaufort abt 1421 - abt May 1469 called Tacine and illegitimate in RA TUDOR 12 V.5 p.203 // Tudor-46 is a garbled version. Merge proposed. // Now merged.
4==m. () Reynold Grey, of Wilton abt 1421 - abt 13 Aug 1442 RA WILTON 13 V.5 p.375 says 1 son John
5vvvvv John Grey 1448 - 03 Apr 1499 RA WILTON 14 married Anne Grey (see GREY 13). RA says 6s 3d.
3==m. (aft 2 Aug 1441) Margaret Beauchamp abt 1410 - bef 03 Jun 1482 RA TUDOR 12 V.5 pp.201-3 says one daughter Margaret
4vvvv Margaret (Beaufort) Stanley 31 May 1443 - 29 Jun 1509 Countess of Richmond
4==m1. (7 Feb 1450) John Pole KG 27 Sep 1442 - 24 Jul 1492 a divorce was allowed
4==m2. (bef 1455) Edmund Tudor abt 1430 - 03 Nov 1456 1 son
5vvvvv Henry (Tudor) of England abt Jan 1457 - 21 Apr 1509 King Henry VII
4==m3. (3 Jan 1458) Henry Stafford abt 1433 - 1481 no issue says RA
4==m4. (bef 12 Jun 1472) Thomas Stanley KG abt 1435 - 29 Jul 1504 no issue says RA

Conclusion at the 5th generation: 2 distinct lines to track further, the Wilton Greys and the descendants of Henry VII (Tudor dynasty + illegitimate). (Both of these continuations are also continuations of other tables.) See second project page.


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John of Gaunt-> John Beaufort-> Edmund Beaufort

Edmund on Genealogics

#01234 5 ______________________________________________ _______________________________________ - Notes
2vv John Beaufort KG m. Margaret Holland
3vvv Edmund Beaufort KG abt 1406 - 22 May 1455 SOMERSET 12 // Marlyn Lewis lists an extra daughter Isabel. No child or marriage in RA but clearly lived to adulthood
3==m. (bef 21 Oct 1434) Eleanor Beauchamp Sep 1408 - 06 Mar 1467 RA says 4s Henry, Edmund, John, Thomas, 6d Marg, Eleanor, Anne, Joan/Jane, Eliz, Isab. Isabel is not handled by WT yet, but no children mentioned in RA.
4vvvv Margaret (Beaufort) Stafford abt 1427 - 1474 RA says m twice STAFFORD and Darrell // DoB prob around 1437
4=1=m1. (bef 1455) Humphrey Stafford Knt. abt 1424 - aft 22 May 1455 STAFFORD 11
>>>>> Descendants of this marriage See #Buckingham
4=2=m2. (1455) Richard Darrell abt 1429 - 1489 RA says 1d Mar m James Tuchet (TUCHET 16.i)
5vvvvv Margaret (Darrell) Touchet abt 1460 - bef 29 Sep 1488 RA says m James Tuchet (TUCHET 16.i, not an E3 descendant) Had 1s John 8th Lord Audley
4vvvv Lady Eleanor (Beaufort) Spencer 1431 - 16 Aug 1501
4=1=m1. (abt Apr 1458) James Butler 24 Nov 1420 - 01 May 1461 RA BUTLER 10.i says no issue
4=2=m2. (1470) Robert Spencer 1430 - bef 12 Apr 1510 RA CAREY 13 says 2d Marg (m Th Carey) and Kath (m Hen Algernon Percy, PERCY 15.i, son of RA PERCY 15 m Maud Herbert 4s 3d.
5vvvvv Margaret (Spencer) Cary 1472 - 1536 m Th Carey RA says 2s 4d
5vvvvv Catherine (Spencer) Percy abt 1480 - bef 09 Nov 1542 See Percy table where Hn Alg would be gen 6.) RA says 3s 2d
4 Joan Beaufort 1433 - 11 Aug 1518
4=2=m. () Richard William Frye 1442 - 1504 2nd husband no issue (RA) // Richard or William? // SGM [MI lie]
4=1=m. (Jul 1478) Robert St. lawrence abt 1436 - abt 1488 1st husband no issue (RA)
4vvvv Anne (Beaufort) Paston 1435 - 17 Sep 1496
4==m. () William Paston 28 May 1434 - 1496 RA RUDYARD 13. RA says they had 1s William, 3d, Mary (m Ralph Neville; NEVILLE 16.i), Marg (d as baby), Anne/Agnes (m Gilbert Talbot), Elizabeth (m John Savile)..
5vvvvv Ann (Paston) Talbot - bef 1534 RA says also called Agnes. m Gilbert Talbot. 3d Marg (m Rob Newport), Eliz, Mary (m Thomas Astley).
5 John Paston RA mentions no John, but instead a William. In any case must have died with no heirs because his sisters were heirs to his father. // Wrong parents. Blame Burke's 2003 and merge with Paston-71
5????? William Clearly no legitimate issue
5vvvvv Elizabeth (Paston) Savile abt 1460 - abt 1541 RA says m John Savile. 1s Henry, 3d Anne (m Hen Thwaites, knt), Eliz (m Thomas Conyers knt), Marg (m Thom Wortley and Richard Corbet) // Stray surplus grandson Conyers-218. Her daughter Elizabeth did have a Conyers baby, Christopher, b 1520, no further info, and a Soothill boy Michael. IPM abstract is mysterious.
5 Mary Paston 19 Jun 1469 - 25 Dec 1489 RA says m Ralph Neville (NEVILLE 16.i) son of 3rd Earl of Westmorland (see Elizabeth of Lancaster's table), but RA says they had no issue (Neville may have other descendants though)
5 Margaret Paston 19 Jul 1474 - Nov 1474 RA says died as baby
4vvvv Henry (Somerset) Beaufort 26 Jan 1436 - 15 May 1464 SOMERSET 13.
4==m. (bef 1460) Joan Hill 1438 - 26 Apr 1493 mistress
5vvvvv Charles Somerset KG abt 1460 - 15 Apr 1526 illeg SOMERSET 14 in RA. Had issue
4???? Edmund Beaufort abt 1439 - 06 May 1471
4???? John Beaufort abt 1441 - 04 May 1471 No child or marriage in RA but clearly lived to adulthood
4 Thomas Beaufort 1442 - 1517 RA says died young
4vvvv Elizabeth (Beaufort) FitzLewis abt 1443 - 29 Jun 1509
4==m. (bef 1474) Henry Fitz Lewes abt 1440 - May 1480 RA says one daughter Mary
5vvvvv Mary (FitzLewis) Neville abt 1465 - aft 1492 RA says m: 1 Anthony Wydeville (no issue); 2 George Neville (NEVILLE 9.iii) and had 1d Anne, who had 2 sons with John Markham, John and Henry.
4???? Mary Wikipedia cites Alison Weir. Not mentioned in RA. // MEDLANDS. Says she married a Burgh.
4???? Isabel MEDLANDS. Marlyn Lewis (not from MCA)

5th generation possibly with descendants. See second project page for people listed so far.

Worth further study (maybe):

  • Edmund Beaufort. Died after Tewkesbury. At that time he had taken up the title of Duke of Somerset and was only 31.
  • John Beaufort. No child or marriage in RA but clearly lived to adulthood. Died at Tewkesbury itself.
  • 4th gen. Mary, proposed illegitimate daughter of Edmund. Wikipedia cites Alison Weir. Not mentioned in RA. // MEDLANDS. Says she married a Burgh.
  • 4th gen. Isabel, proposed illegitimate daughter of Edmund. MEDLANDS. Marlyn Lewis (not from MCA)


To do:



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John of Gaunt-> John Beaufort-> Margaret Courtenay

#01234 5 ______________________________________________ _______________________________________ - Notes
2vv John Beaufort KG m. Margaret Holland
3vvv Margaret (Beaufort) Courtenay abt 1408 - Nov 1449 RA follows in SOMERSET
3==m. (aft 1421) Thomas Courtenay [5th/13th Earl of Devon(shire)] 1414 - 03 Feb 1458 3s Th, Hen, Jn (cleric) 5d Joan, Eliz, Anne, Maud, Eleanor (Eliz in RA: m but no issue). Genealogics only follows Joan. Sons were Lancastrians. See CP under DEVON and COURTENAY.
4 Thomas Courtenay [6th/14th Earl] abt 1437 - 03 Apr 1461 prisoner at Towton 1461, forfeited, attainted, beheaded, unmarried; heir was brother (so no legit issue)
4==m. (abt 9 Sep 1456) Marie Anjou abt 1437 - aft 1471 RA says no issue
4 Henry, esq CP says he was his brother's heir (although some titles were suspended because atteinted); also eventually beheaded
4 John [7th/15th Earl] Cleric (or RA in any case says originally headed in that direction). Also no issue because CP says the patent rolls name Henry's sisters (Joan and Elizabeth) has his heirs
4 3 more daughters All died young. See CP under DEVON
4 Elizabeth 1449 m. Wikipedia:Hugh_Conway_(Lord_Treasurer). RA says no issue
4vvvv Joan (Courtenay) Clifford abt 1447 - 06 Feb 1500
4=1=m1. (abt 1471) Roger Clifford 1437 - 02 May 1485 DOUBLE COUNT NOTE: Roger is >5 gen descendant from Lionel table. RA says 1s Charles, 2d Mary (m Thomas Wingfield) and Barbara (m. Drury). Rev. Ragg reports a family story that Barbara remarried to a Cliburn? // Descendant of E3 via Elizabeth Percy, see Mortimer table
5 Mary (Clifford) Wingfield - bef 23 Jan 1469 m Th Wingfield // no descendants on WT.
5vvvvv Charles abt 1480 Descendants here [6]. For back-up see will summary here and Wikipedia. NOW ADDED. Wife is from Buckingham table.
5 Barbara
4=2=m2. (bef 8 Oct 1489) William Knyvet 1440 - bef 02 Dec 1515 RA says no issue, but note that his daughter Anne married his wife's son Charles.

Conclusion at 5th generation: See second webpage. One person so far: Charles Clifford

Worth further study:

  • Barbara Drury (and Cliburn?) may be untraceable, but would be a good discovery. Her Drury husband is asserted in old pedigrees without first name. Rev. Ragg reports a family story that Barbara remarried to a Cliburn?

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John of Gaunt - Henry Beaufort

#01234 5 ______________________________________________ _______________________________________ - Notes
2vv Henry Beaufort abt 1374 - 11 Apr 1447 Cleric. RA: STRADLING 11 V.5. p.52
2==m. (abt 1390) Alice FitzAlan abt 1373 - bef 13 Oct 1415 Uncertain. not married to Henry, but later to John Cherleton. RA STRADLING says she is "said to be" the mother of Joan. See article in FMG by Brad Verity.
3vvv Joan (Beaufort) Stradling abt 1390 - 19 Oct 1479 Verity says only she had 3 sons, and concerning daughters reports some confusing evidence: "In the Wynston pedigree of 1607, a daughter, Katherin Stradling, wife of Watkyn Wynston, Lord of Wynston, is assigned to Edward and Jane. Curiously, in the Dennis pedigree published in a manuscript copy of the 1623 Visitation of Gloucestershire (Maclean and Heane, 1885), a Katherine, daughter of Sir Edward Stradling, is given as the first wife of Maurice Dennis. An earlier pedigree of the Dennis family, dating to about 1530 and now housed in the College of Arms (London, College of Arms, Muniment Room, MS. 3/54), names the first wife of Maurice Dennis as ‘Johanna Stradling’ but doesn’t ascribe parentage to her. Neither of these daughters is found in surviving 15th-century records, and they are not named, nor are their marriages listed, in Sir Edward Stradling's account of his family from the 1560s. "
3==m. (abt 1420) Edward Stradling abt 1389 - bef 27 Jun 1452 RA STRADLING 12. 3s (Henry, John archdeacon of Llanduff, and David); 1d (Joan "or Katherine"?) What happened to David?
4vvvv Henry Stradling abt 1412 - 1476 AKA Harry. RA STRADLING 13. m Elizabeth ferch William ap Thomas 2s 2d
4==m. (bef 1449) Elizabeth Herbert 1427 - 1485 RA BERKELEY 9. 2s 2d
5vvvvv Thomas Stradling Esq aft 1454 - bef 28 Jun 1480 RA STRADLING 14. m . Janet Matthew 2s Edw (STRADLING 15), Harry, 1d, Jane (m Wm Griffith RA COYTEMORE 17)
5????? Charles Stradling RA mentions but does not follow, Genealogics names 2 children but takes no further. Note Verity comment implies that he predeceased his grandmother.
5????? Elizabeth Stradling RA says m Richard ap Jenkin, other sources says Richard Fleming?
5????? Jane Stradling RA says m Miles Parry (or ap Harry). Genealogics names a son Henry. Takes a few generations further to a Vaughn family (descended from Joan Whitney, see #Touchet table). Daughters named here.
4????? John Stradling archdeacon of Llanduff Apparently no issue, at least not legitimate. See next.
4????? David Stradling Apparently no issue, at least not legitimate. Verity: "Though youngest son David married, he apparently had no surviving children, and Jane was a grandmother only to Henry’s son Thomas Stradling and two daughters."
4vvvv Katherine (Stradling) Dennis abt 1412 - bef Nov 1437 Some uncertainty. RA says also called Joan (only poor records). Genealogics does not mention her in this family. See G2G. The mother was Stradling's second wife Alice Poyntz.
4==m. () Maurice Dennis abt 1408 - 01 Sep 1503 RA DENNIS 13. V.2 p.433 says 2s Walter knt, John
5????? Walter Dennis 1443 - 01 Sep 1503 RA V.2. p434 DENNIS. 3 wives. Issue only from second: 3s 3d. One son, Wm, is followed as DENNIS 15, and certainly had issue.
5????? John Dennis mentioned in RA but not followed

Conclusion at 5th generation: See second project page for listing of people who apparently have descendants so far. Most certain so far is Thomas Stradling Esq.

Worth further study/checking before moving to second page:

  • Charles Stradling. RA mentions but does not follow, Genealogics names 2 children but takes no further. Note Verity comment implies that he predeceased his grandmother.
  • Elizabeth Stradling. RA says m Richard ap Jenkin, other sources says Richard Fleming?
  • Jane Stradling. RA says m Miles Parry (or ap Harry). Genealogics names a son Henry. Takes a few generations further to a Vaughn family. Daughters named here.
  • Walter Dennis. See G2G Richardson says mother was Alice Poyntz
  • John Dennis. Walter's brother mentioned in RA but not followed.

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Joan Beaufort

John of Gaunt - Joan Beaufort's Ferrers family

#01234 5 ______________________________________________ _______________________________________ - Notes
0 Edward III (Plantagenet) of England m. Philippa Hainaut
1v John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG m. Katherine Roet
2vv Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG 1379 - 13 Nov 1440
2=2=m2. (bef 29 Nov 1396) Ralph Neville KG, PC abt 1364 - 21 Oct 1425
>>> Descendants of this marriage See Neville table
2=1=m1. (bef 30 Sep 1390) Robert Ferrers abt 1372 - bef 29 Nov 1396 RA: WEM 13 V.5. p.340. says 2 d Mary and Eliz. (no son mentioned)
3vvv Elizabeth (Ferrers) Greystoke abt 1393 - 1434
3==m. () John Greystoke abt 1389 - 08 Aug 1436 RA GREYSTOKE 13 V.3. p.138ff. 6s Ralph, Th, Rich, Jn, Hen, Wm, 6d Joan, Anne, Eleanor, Kath (nun), Maud (m John le Scrope, Esq), Eliz (m. Roger Thornton).
4???? many more kids Genealogics shows kids only for the same ones Wikitree does (Ralph, Eliz, Joan, Eleanor, Ann). For Maud, see discussion of Verity and Richardson (no issue). Visitations of the North Vol3 p.29 also says Thomas and Richard were "sine liberis". p.139 says same and also about Henry, and Eleanor m Ralph Yvers, knt. It also says Roger Thornton and Eliz had Joan (m Geo Lumley) and Eliz (m Rob Ogle knt and no issue).
4vvvv Joan (Greystoke) Darcy 1408 - 1456 RA says married twice: Darcy and Stoke LAUNCE 15
4==m. () John Darcy abt 1400 - 27 Apr 1458 RA LAUNCE 15 V.3. p.542 says 5s Rich, Phil, Jn, Th, Geo, 3d, Eliz, Jane (m. John Beaumont), Eleanor
5????? many more kids Genealogics shows kids for Richard and Joan only.
5vvvvv Richard Darcy 1424 - 1458 LAUNCE 16. 3s 1d
5vvvvv Joan (Darcy) Beaumont 1426 - 29 Mar 1461 m. John Beaumont Esq.
5 Thomas Darcy 1432
5 Phillip Darcy 1435
4vvvv Ralph Greystoke abt 1408 - abt 01 Jun 1487 GREYSTOKE 14
4=1=m. (abt 1 Jul 1436) Elizabeth FitzHugh abt 1419 - 20 Mar 1468 1st wife. 6s Rob, Jn, Rich (cleric), Ralph, Wm, Wm again, 6d Eliz, Joan, Isab, Marg, Mary (m Th Salvain and Edm Hastings), Anne
5????? many more kids Northern Visitation Vol.3 p.140 says Joan and Isabel died virgins, the 2 Williams died as boys, and Richard was a cleric. What happened to Ralph, Anne and John?
5vvvvv Elizabeth Greystoke 1436 - abt 10 Dec 1483 Married twice. See RA SCROPE 12 and TALBOT 16
5vvvvv Robert Greystoke 1436 - 17 Jan 1483 GREYSTOKE 15 m. twice. 1d to first wife, Eliz, see RA DACRE 16
5????? Mary (Greystoke) Hastings abt 1440 - 30 Sep 1496 m Th Salvain Esq and Edmund Hastings. Not followed in RA? Visitation of the North names 2 boys with Salvain, Radulph and Edmund. Radulph has children on Genealogics.
5vvvvv Margaret (Greystoke) Grey abt 1442 - abt 1500 m Th Gray RA GRAY 11. RA V.3. p.111 says 1s Ralph, 3d Ann (m Delavel, Hopton and Dacre), Eliz, Marg (m. Horsley).
4=2=m. () Elizabeth Tyrrell abt 1415 - abt 1470 2nd wife. 1d Anne. What happened to Anne?
5????? Anne Greystoke abt 1470 - abt 1540
4=3=m. (20 Sep 1483) Beatrice Hawcliff abt 1440 - 12 Apr 1505 3rd wife. No issue.
4vvvv Anne (Greystoke) Bigod 1412 - 27 Mar 1477 The children of Ralph are all on wikitree, just not connected to their mother?
4==m. (18 Feb 1432) Ralph Bigod 07 Jul 1410 - 29 Mar 1461 RA ASKE 13 RA V.1. p.167 says 10s Jn, Hen, Edw, Wm, Geo, Th, Ralph, Rich (cleric), Phil, Pet, 5d Eliz, Anne (m. Conyers), Kath, Maud, Agnes (m. Th Stillington)
5 Ralph Bigod Pedigrees of the North Part 3, page 139 says Ralph junior married a daughter of Rob Constable of Flamborough. That looks like Bigod-95, now a grandson instead of son, but has same death date as Bigod-263 with correct father, but mother Greystoke not connected. So seems to be disagreement about whether Ralph m Constable was son or grandson of Ralph m Greystoke. Genealogics thinks the Ralph son of Ralph was a cleric.
5 Katherine Bigod
5 Thomas Bigod
5 Henry Bigod
5 Edward
5 [[#f2f1ff|William
5 George
5 Peter
5 Philip
5 Richard
5 Maud/Mathilda Bigod seems to be missing in Wikitree
5vvvvv John Bigod 1433 - 29 Mar 1461
5vvvvv Elizabeth (Bigod) Aske 1436 - aft 08 Apr 1497 RA ASKE 14. m. John Aske. 8s, 3d. See Surtees 144 p 97
5vvvvv Agnes Bigod 1442 m. Th Stillington
5vvvvv Anne Bigod Married William Conyers of Sockburn. Genealogics shows 11 children and follows 3. Of those 3 Wikitree is missing Cuthbert.
4vvvv Eleanore (Greystoke) Eure [UNC] 1416 - 27 Mar 1477
4==m. (1440) Ralph Eure 1412 - 29 Mar 1461 RA EURE 10. V.2. p.527 6s Wm, Jn, Hugh (cleric), Ralph, Hen, Rob; 6d Eliz (m Ellerker), Joan, Marg (nun), Joan again, Maud, Anne (m. Rokeby). Several missing from WT (but most also not followed by Richardson). Genealogics adds a daughter Mary, and only follows Elizabeth.
5????? many more kids Vistations of the North Vol3 page 110 (spelling Yvers) gives 11 children, 1 with no name; says Joan no issue; Ralph d as boy; Rob knt of order of St John; Anne and Hen were twins who died. John had a will 1493.
5vvvvv William Eure 18 Feb 1440 - aft 1497 RA EURE 11 had issue. Pedigrees of the North says m Marg d of Rob Constable, knt.
5????? Ralph (Eure) de Eure [nc] abt 1442 - bef 19 Jun 1484
5vvvvv Elizabeth (Eure) Ellerker 1444 m. John Ellerker. No children in Wikitree yet, but see eg Surtees 146, p.46. Son is Ellercar-1 NOW CONNECTED
5????? Henry Eure abt 1446
5????? Robert Eure abt 1450 knight of the order of St John. Discussed as a theoretical mtDNA match to Rich III here.
5????? John Eure esq abt 1452 - bef 11 Jun 1493 Richardson does not mention esquire. His will, mentioned in Pedigrees of the North, is online. Mentions no children
4vvvvv Elizabeth Greystoke 1428 - 1440 wife of Roger Thornton but not followed in RA. Genealogics shows 2? daughters. Lumley grandchildren. Daughter now connected.
5 Elizabeth m George Lumley
3vvv Mary (Ferrers) Neville 1394 - 25 Jan 1458
3==m. (1413) Ralph Neville 1392 - abt 26 Feb 1458 RA GASCOIGNE 14. RA V.3. p.77 says 1s John Esq., 1d Jane (m. Walter Griffith, knt)
4 Havisia (Neville) Heslarton 1410 - 1500 Unsourced parentage. Not in RA
4==m. () William Heslarton 1413 questionable branch
5 Thomas John Heslarton 1437 - 1481 questionable branch
5 Elizabeth Heslerton abt 1450 questionable branch
4 Mary (Neville) de Neville abt 1414 - abt 1486 Named as Jane in RA V.3. p.77. [7]
4==m. (abt 1435) Walter Griffith 1420 - 09 Aug 1481
5????? Walter Griffith II abt 1474 - abt 30 Oct 1531 Adventurous parentage? [7] Alleged ancestor of immigrants, not recognized as gateways. // Plaque says knighted 1494, so probably born earlier than 1474, but how much?
4vvvv John Neville Esq. 1416 - 17 Mar 1482 RA GASCOIGNE 15. Also had 2nd wife but no issue.
4=1=m. () Elizabeth Newmarch 1420 - 14 May 1487 RA agrees 1d Jane/Joan.
5vvvvv Jane Neville abt 1434 - 1486 RA m GASCOIGNE 16: 3s 4d. Sole heiress of both parents. Second husband James Harington 3s, but his heir was his illegit son. Her son and heir Wm Gascoigne XII (GASCOIGNE 17) m Margaret Percy (d of 3rd Earl) and was ancestor of 4 gateways, Bladen, Reade, Mauleverer, Saltonstall. Daughter Margaret m a Warde (TUNSTALL 17) and was ancestor of 2 gateways, Bladen and Carleton. Daughter Agnes m Rob Plumpton knt. Also see Surtees 144 p.151
4=2=m. () Margaret Plumpton abt 1438 - 14 May 1487 now connected
3 Thomas Ferrers 1394 Not in RA.

Conclusion at 5th generation: See [ second project page] for those so far found to have descendants.

Needing more study: The Walter Griffith story

Proposals:

  • Hawise Heslarton looks dubious. [8] And she's all over the internet now. Please somebody make it stop
  • Thomas Ferrers in gen 3 looks dubious.
  • Eure family not complete. (Richardson does go to 5th generation.)
  • Griffith family not taken to 5th generation by Richardson.
  • Various children (bold) and people like Elizabeth Thornton and Maud Scrope not followed in Richardson or WT.

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John of Gaunt - Joan Beaufort's Neville family

First generations
#01234 5 ______________________________________________ _______________________________________ - Notes
0 Edward III (Plantagenet) of England m. Philippa Hainaut
1v John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG m. Katherine Roet
2vv Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG 1379 - 13 Nov 1440
2==m2. (bef 29 Nov 1396) Ralph Neville KG, PC abt 1364 - 21 Oct 1425 RA: NEVILLE 13. V.4. p233 says 9s (Rich, Hen, Th, Cuthbert, bshp Robert, Wm, Jn, Geo, Edw) 5d (Joan nun, Kath, Eleanor, Anne, Cecily)
3 Joan Neville abt 1398 - 13 Nov 1440 nun
3vvv Catherine (Neville) Mowbray 1399 - 1478 RA MOWBRAY 8 V.4 p.192
3=1=m. (1412) John Mowbray abt 09 Aug 1398 - 19 Oct 1432 RA MOWBRAY 8 Katherine's first husband. RA says 1 son
4 John (Mowbray) de Mowbray KG 12 Sep 1415 - 06 Nov 1461 RA MOWBRAY 9
4==m. (1444) Eleanor Bourchier abt 1417 - Nov 1474 RA says 1s John
Descendants of this marriage See #Thomas of Woodstock
3=2=m. () Thomas Strangeways abt 1393 - bef 1442 Second husband. RA says 1s Th, 2d Kath and Joan // Dates are wayward. Marriage is said to have been quite short
4???? Thomas Visitations of the North III p.106 says died as boy
4 Isabelle (Strangeways) Gerard 1409 - abt 1447 disputed parentage not in RA
4==m. (12 May 1428) Peter Gerard 02 May 1407 - 26 Mar 1447 disconnect this branch?
5 Sir Thomas Gerard 15 Jul 1431 - 27 Mar 1490 disconnect this branch?
5 Margaret (Gerard) Boteler abt 1433 - abt 1452 disconnect this branch?
4vvvv Joan (Strangeways) Brandon 1427 - 24 Feb 1485 RA V.4 p.195 says m twice: WILLOUGHBY 12.ii, BERKELEY 10.i // Why is she called Brandon? FIXED
4=1=m1. (bef 29 Jul 1461) William Willoughby abt 1432 - bef Nov 1468 RA WILLOUGHBY 12.ii V.5 p.364 says 2s Edw and Rich, 2d Cecily and Anne (m. John Beauchamp Knt)
5 Anne Tim Powys-Lybbe thinks she married this one Beauchamp-543 - 2015 version but not in 2007 version. Berkeley book also says he was heir apparent to Richard (and that the couple got the manor of Erlingham for their lives). Source Berkeley book. If she did, no surviving issue, as his sisters were co-heiresses.
5????? Edward Willoughby Genealogics names issue
5????? Richard Willoughby what happened to him?
5 Margaret (Willoughby) Sutton 1466 not listed in bio. Not mentioned in RA (or Berkeley book)'. Disconnect?? Merge with sister?'
5vvvvv Cicely (Willoughby) Sutton 1475 - Aug 1539 father dead? RA WILLOUGHBY 12.ii.a V.5 p.366 says m. Edward Sutton/Dudley SUTTON 9. // Some claimed descendants listed here (small PDF)
4=2=m2. (Nov 1468) William Berkeley KB 1426 - 14 Feb 1492 RA BERKELEY 10.i. V.1 p.338 says 1s Thomas KB, and 1d Katherine, neither followed
5????? Catherine Berkeley Berkeley book says she and her brother died young
5????? Thomas (de Berkeley) Berkeley Berkeley book says he and his sister died young
4 Katherine Strangeways [nc] abt 1438 - bef 1465 RA says predeceased 1st husband
4==m. (abt 1454) Henry Grey bef 1435 - 08 Apr 1496 RA says no issue.
3=3=m3. (1443) John Beaumont KG, KB 14 Aug 1409 - 10 Jul 1460 RA BEAUMONT 11.i
3=4=m4. (Jan 1465) John Woodville abt 1445 - 12 Aug 1469 RA WYDEVILLE 13.vi V.5 p.426 mentions no children. He was executed
3vvv Richard (Neville) de Neville KG 1400 - 31 Dec 1460
3==m. (Feb 1421) Alice Montagu 18 Oct 1405 - bef 09 Dec 1462 RA MONTAGU 11
>>>> Descendants of this marriage See #Salisbury
3vvv William Neville KG abt 1400 - 09 Jan 1463
4???? Thomas, illeg "Bastard of Fauconberg". DNB (mentions a reported brother)
4???? at least 1 more illegitimate child
3==m. () Joan Fauconberg 18 Oct 1406 - 11 Dec 1490 RA FAUCONBERGE 12 V.2 p.551 says 3 leg. d. Joan (m Edw Bethom, knt), Eliz (m. Rich Strangeways, knt), Alice (m. John Conyers CONYERS 17). Also at least 2 illeg sons, incl Thomas "Bastard of Fauconberge")
4???? Joan
4vvvv Elizabeth (Neville) Strangeways Not connected to parents
4==m. () Richard Strangeways
5vvvvv James Strangeways
4vvvv Alice (Neville) Conyers 1437 - 1490
4==m. (bef 1468) John Conyers 1445 - 20 Feb 1490 RA CONYERS 17 V.2. p.288-9 says 2s John and Wm, 2d Marg (m. Wm Bulmer) and Anne (m. Richard Lumley) (Must be Conyers-237, currently with no mother)
5vvvvv William Conyers 21 Dec 1468 - 04 Apr 1524 RA CONYERS 18 m. Mary Scrope 1d, and m Anne Neville (see Elizabeth of Lancaster table) 1s Christopher (who had issue) 2d Kath (m Franc Bigod knt) and Marg (m Rich Cholmeley knt)
5????? John not followed in RA, maybe died young?
5vvvvv Margery (Conyers) Bulmer 1469 - 10 May 1524 RA says m Wm Bulmer
5vvvvv Anne (Conyers) Lumley abt 1480 - abt 1520 now connected. RA says m Rich Lumley
5 Reginald Conyers 1501 Not in RA. disconnect?
3 Henry Neville abt 1402 - abt 1403 no issue mentioned by Richardson. Wikipedia says died young
3??? Robert Neville 1404 - abt 09 Jul 1457 cleric. Discussion of possible children [9]
3 Cuthbert Neville 1405 - 1415 no issue mentioned by Richardson. Wikipedia says died young
3vvv Eleanor (Neville) Percy abt 1407 - abt 1473
>>>> Marriages and descendants See #Percy
3 Thomas Neville 1409 - 1424 no issue mentioned by Richardson. Wikipedia says died young.
3vvv Anne (Nevell) Blount 1411 - 20 Sep 1480 Also in Stafford table, with only one husband
3==m. (bef 28 Oct 1424) Humphrey Stafford KG 15 Aug 1402 - 10 Jul 1460 RA STAFFORD 10
>>>> Descendants of this marriage See #Buckingham
3==m. (25 Nov 1467) Walter Blount KG 1420 - 01 Aug 1474 RA STAFFORD 10 V.5 p.15 says no issue
3??? John Neville abt 1413 - 22 May 1455 no issue mentioned by Richardson. Wikipedia says died young.
3vvv George Neville abt 1414 - abt 18 Oct 1476 John, George & Edward DoBs out of order
3==m. () Elizabeth Beauchamp abt 1410 RA LATIMER 14
>>>> Descendants of this marriage See #Latimer
3vvv Edward (Neville) de Neville abt 1412 - 18 Oct 1476 John, George & Edward DoBs out of order
3=1=m1. (aft 28 Aug 1428) Elizabeth Beauchamp 16 Sep 1415 - 18 Jun 1448 RA BERGAVENNY 14
3=2=m2. (15 Oct 1448) Katherine Howard abt 1414 - 29 Jun 1478 RA BERGAVENNY 14
>>>> Descendants of these marriages See #Bergavenny
3vvv Cecily (Neville) of York 03 May 1415 - 31 May 1495 RA YORK 12
3==m. (bef 18 Oct 1424) Richard York 21 Sep 1411 - 30 Dec 1460
>>>> Descendants of this marriage See #York

Conclusions at 5th generation: See second project page for listing of people who seem to have modern descendants so far.

Proposals:

  • Disconnect Gerard branch. CALLED UNCERTAIN FOR NOW, There is a theory published but there is also an old pedigree that says Isabel was daughter of a James, who was brother to the said Thomas. See here for example. Foster's Yks Visitations says the same, but cites no sources.

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Salisbury

Start of work here is Richard and Alice? Alice on Genealogics.

#01234 5 ______________________________________________ _______________________________________ - Notes
0 Edward III (Plantagenet) of England m. Philippa Hainaut
1v John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG m. Katherine Roet
2vv Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG m. Ralph Neville KG, PC
3vvv Richard (Neville) de Neville KG, [Earl of Salisbury] 1400 - 31 Dec 1460 RA NEVILLE 13 V.IV p.233ff
3==m. (Feb 1421) Alice Montagu 18 Oct 1405 - bef 09 Dec 1462 RA MONTAGU 11 V4, pp.124-5 says 6s Rich, Thom, John, Master George, Ralph, Robert 6d, Joan, Cecily, Alice, Eleanor, Kath, Marg
4vvvv[10] Joan (Neville) FitzAlan abt 1423 - bef 09 Sep 1462
4==m. (aft 17 Aug 1438) William FitzAlan KG 23 Nov 1417 - 15 Dec 1487 RA ARUNDEL 12 V.1 p.155 says 4s Th, Wm, Ge, Jn knt; 1d Mary.
5vvvvv Thomas FitzAlan KG, KB abt 1450 - 25 Oct 1524 ARUNDEL 13. RA V.1 pp.156ff. says m Margaret Wydeville 2s Wm (m twice 1s w second Anne Percy), Edw, 2d Joan (m Geo Neville BERGAVENNY 16), Marg (m DE LA POLE 10.i.a)
5????? William (FitzAlan) Arundel abt 1452 not followed under ARUNDEL in RA
5????? more kids Apart from Thomas, the list of other children is all over the internet, but only that
4???? Cecily (Neville) Tiptoft abt 1425 - 28 Jul 1450 RA says m twice See BEAUCHAMP 13.i and INGALDESTHORPE 11.i
4==m. (1434) Henry Beauchamp 22 Mar 1425 - 11 Jun 1446 RA BEAUCHAMP 13.i V.1 p.301 says 1d Anne
4==m. (1449) John Tiptoft KG 08 May 1427 - 18 Oct 1470 INGALDESTHORPE 11.i (V.1 p.301 says no issue)
4vvvv Richard (Neville) de Neville, [Earl of Warwick] 22 Nov 1428 - 14 Apr 1471 MONTAGU 12 m Anne Beauchamp 2d Isabel and Anne, also illeg Marg and Alice
5????? Margaret Neville abt 1455 - 20 Sep 1498 RA V4 p.128 MONTAGU says m twice 1 Richard Huddleston (1s Richard no issue and his heiresses and sisters 2d now connected, Marg m Lancelot Salkeld and Joan m Hugh Fleming); and 2 Lancelot Threlkeld (no issue)
5vvvvv Alice (Neville) Conyers abt 1470 RA says m Christopher Conyers see DRAKE 13 V.2 p.465 says 2s John esq and Geo esq, 3d Eliz m Rich Carlisle, Agnes m Geoff Lee 3s, Dorothy m Salter.
4==m. () Anne Beauchamp Sep 1426 - 20 Sep 1492
5vvvvv Isabella (Neville) of Clarence 05 Sep 1451 - 22 Dec 1476 RA follows as MONTAGU 13 m George Plantagenet 2s d young, 2d. Anne d young and Marg m POLE 17
5 Anne (Neville) York 11 Jun 1456 - 16 Mar 1485 m Prince Edward and then Richard III. No grandchildren
4 Thomas Neville abt 1429 - 30 Dec 1460
4==m. (Aug 1453) Maud Stanhope 1425 - 30 Aug 1497 Had several husbands. RA CROMWELL 8.i.b for ancestry. No child mentioned with Thomas at WILLOUGHBY 11.i which seems to be the only place to look.
4vvvv Alice (Neville) FitzHugh abt 1430 - aft 22 Nov 1503
4==m. () Henry FitzHugh 1429 - 08 Jun 1472 RA FITZ HUGH 16 V.2 pp.633-4 says 5s Rich, Geo (Dean of Lincoln), Edw, Tho, Jn, 6d Alice (m John Fiennes), Anne (m Francis Lovel, Viscount Lovel, Richard III's friend who disappeared), Eliz (m Wm Parr PARR 14 and Nicholas Vaux OXENBRIDGE 17), Marg (m Marmaduke Constable CONSTABLE 17; says no issue), Joan (nun) and Eleanor (a twin of Joan)
5????? Richard FitzHugh - 20 Nov 1487 RS says 6th Lord Fitz hugh. His son George however died without issue.
5vvvvv Alice (Fitzhugh) Fiennes abt 1448 - 10 Jul 1516 m John Fiennes
5vvvvv Elizabeth (Fitzhugh) Parr abt 1460 - bef 1508 m Wm Parr PARR 14 (says 3s 2d) and Nicholas Vaux OXENBRIDGE 17 // QGA lines
5 Several other children
4vvvv John (Neville) de Neville KG abt 1431 - 14 Apr 1471
4==m. () Isabel Ingoldesthorpe 1441 - 20 May 1476 INGALDESTHORPE 13. Says 1s (Geo Duke of Bedford) 5d Anne, Eliz, Marg, Lucy, Isabel.
5vvvvv Isabel (Nevell) Huddleston RA INGALDESTHORPE 14. m thrice. 1. William Huddleston esq of Millom 2s John knt (INGALDESTHORPE 15.) and Rich esq 2. Ran Dacre esq of Carlise 3. Wm Smyth (or Sibbertoft). d. 12 Oct 1516 or 12 Nov 1517
5????? Elizabeth (Neville) Wentworth - Sep 1517 RA III p.396 says m 2 times 1. Thomas Le Scrope 6th L of Masham 2. Henry Wentworth, KB of Nettlestead Both handled under NETTLESTEAD, which says no issue (at least from Wentworth)
5vvvvv Ann (Neville) Stonor aft 1457 RA says m Wm Stonor knt of Stonor in Pyrton, Oxn DE LA POLE 12 RA II p.431 says 1s John 1d Anne. Anne is DE LA POLE 13. m Adrian Fortescue, 2d Margaret (m Thomas Wentworth knt, see NETTLESTEAD 19), and Frances (m. Thomas FitzGerald 10th Earl of Kildare)
5vvvvv Margaret Now connected to parents. RA says m thrice 1. John Mortimer Knt 2. Charles Brandon KG [BRANDON 16.1.a. and TUDOR 14.v] no issue 3. Robert Downes gent. Richardson notes "Margaret Neville's illegitimate daughter, Anne, wife successively of Sir James Framyngham and Robert Brown. Richardson also considered proposals for Marg having other husbands, a Wingfield and a Home. Not the father of her illegitimate daughter might be Edward Bestney?
5vvvvv Lucy (Neville) Browne aft 1466 - 31 Mar 1534 RA says m twice both handled under [TEMPLE 13] 1. Thomas FitzWilliam knt of Aldwark ; 2. Anthony Browne knt of Calais
4???? George Neville [ns] abt 1433 - 08 Jun 1476 Archbishop etc. DNB
5???? Alice Neville abt 1455 - abt 1498 No child of George mentioned in RA [9]
4vvvv Katherine (Neville) Hastings abt 1435 - bef 25 Mar 1504
4==m. (aft 10 May 1459) William Bonville 1442 - 31 Dec 1460 RA BONVILLE 13 says 1d Cecily
5vvvvv Cecily (Bonville) Grey 1461 - 12 May 1530 m twice. [GROBY 17] 1. Thomas Grey KG KB 1st Marquess of Dorest 2. Hen Stafford KG, Earl of Wiltshire.
4==m. (bef 6 Feb 1462) William Hastings KG abt 1431 - 13 Jun 1483 RA HUNTINGDON 14 III p.368 says 4s Edw KB (HUNTINGDON 15), Wm knt (Genealogics names 2 daughters, one with descents), Rich knt, Geo; 2d Anne (m George Talbot 4th Earl Shrewsbury), Eliz
5vvvvv Edward Hastings 26 Nov 1466 - 08 Nov 1506 m Mary Hungerford 2s Geo KB [HUNTINGDON 16], William 1d Anne (m Thomas Stanley KB Earl of Derby [STANLEY 17] (a cousin, see below).
5vvvvv Anne Hastings abt 1471 - 1506 m George Talbot 4th Earl Shrewsbury
4vvvv Eleanor (Neville) Stanley 1438 - 1504
4==m. () Thomas Stanley KG abt 1435 - 29 Jul 1504 RA V p.29 STANLEY 15 says 7s (John, George Lord Strange [STANLEY 16], Rich, Edw Lord Monteagle [m twice WILTON 14], James Bishop of Ely [at least 2 illeg sons and 1 illeg daughter], Thomas, Wm; 4d (Anne, Alice, Katherine, Agnes)
5vvvvv Edward Stanley KG, Lord Mounteagle abt 1453 - abt 1523 Lord Monteagle m twice [WILTON 14] 1. Anne Harington 2 Eliz Vaughn
5vvvvv James Stanley 1458 - 22 Mar 1525 Bishop of Ely [at least 2 illeg sons and 1 illeg daughter]
5vvvvv George (Stanley) de Stanley KG, KB abt 1460 - 05 Dec 1503 STANLEY 16 m Joan Strange. RA V p.31 says 5s (Thomas STANLEY 17), Anth, Jn, James knt, Geo; 5d Eliz (m Edw Stanley knt), Eleanor, Kath, Joan, Marg (m John Osbaldeston esq)
5vvvvv Margaret (Stanley) Osbaldeston 12 May 1462 - abt 22 Jan 1533 Does not appear in many resources, only visitations, which do not all agree, but Richardson seems to think it possible.
4 Ralph (Neville) de Neville abt 1440
4 Margaret (Neville) de Vere abt 1444 - aft 20 Nov 1506
4==m. () John de Vere abt 1442 - 10 Mar 1513 RA VERE 8.i
4 Robert Neville abt 1446 no issue

5th generation with descendants: See second project page.

More study might help?

  • Elizabeth (Neville) Wentworth. RA III p.396 says m 2 times 1. Thomas Le Scrope 6th L of Masham 2. Henry Wentworth, KB of Nettlestead Both handled under NETTLESTEAD, which says no issue (at least from Wentworth)
  • The children of William Arundel and Joan Neville apart from Thomas!
  • Anne Neville, daughter of Cecile Neville and Henry Beauchamp.
  • Did Thomas Neville and Maud Stanhope have any children?
  • The rest of the FitzHugh children
  • More children of William Hastings KG.
  • Margaret (Stanley) Osbaldeston. Wrong generation?
  • More children for Thomas Stanley

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Latimer

Starts with George? See Genealogics. Sir Henry married another descendant of Edward III so his line will combine a line from another table.

#01234 5 ______________________________________________ _______________________________________ - Notes
0 Edward III (Plantagenet) of England m. Philippa Hainaut
1v John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG m. Katherine Roet
2vv Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG m. Ralph Neville KG, PC
3vvv George Neville abt 1414 - abt 18 Oct 1476 John, George & Edward DoBs out of order
3==m. () Elizabeth Beauchamp abt 1410 RA LATIMER 14 V.3 p.538 says 2 sons Hen and Thomas, 1d Kath (m. Oliver Dudley and James Radcliffe). Other sources add Joan, but primary source is not apparent and there's obviously confusion over who married who.
4 Elizabeth Neville Not in RA Probably Edward's kids who came with their mother in a bad merge
4 Richard Neville Not in RA ditto
4 Alice Neville 1434 - 22 Nov 1503 Not in RA Matches Neville-69
4vvvv Thomas Neville mentioned in RA and Genealogics, but not followed
4vvvv Henry Neville abt 1437 - 26 Jul 1469 RA LATIMER 15
4==m. (1463) Joan Bourchier 1442 - 07 Oct 1470 RA says 2 sons Rich, Thomas Esq, and 1d Joan (m. James Radcliffe, knt) But see supposed aunt Katherine.
5???? Joan Neville 1464 - 19 Nov 1532 RA says m James Radcliffe knt. See Verity comment. Seems this person might stem from an old mistake.
5vvvvv Richard Neville KB 1468 - Dec 1530 RA LATIMER 16 says m twice: Anne Stafford (6s 6d) and Margaret.
5vvvvv Thomas Neville 1468 - 1546 Winslow?![11] RA V3 p.540 says m 3 times: Anne Westerdale (no issue), Lettice Harcourt (1s Richard 3d incl Ellen m Kenelm Bucke), Anne Greville (1s John)
4???? Katherine Neville 1443 - 15 Apr 1493 RA says married with Oliver Dudley and James Radcliffe Knt . See Verity comment. Seems this one is right, but no issue.

Conclusions at 5th generation: At least two children of Henry had issue, Richard Neville KB and Thomas Neville. See second project page.

Worth further study.

  • Thomas son of George is mentioned in both RA and Genealogics, but not tracked by either and has no wikitree profile.
  • Joan Neville RA says m James Radcliffe knt. But is there a confusion with her aunt Katherine?
  • Katherine Neville. RA and Genealogics say she married with Oliver Dudley and James Radcliffe Knt . Confusion abounds. Wikipedia: George_Neville,_1st_Baron_Latimer thinks Katherine died childless, sister Joan married Dudley, niece Joan married Radcliffe.

Note:

  • RA mentions James Radcliffe under both Katherine, daughter of George and Joan, daughter of Henry.

To do:

  • George seems to have extra children who need disconnection? Could be confused versions of Edward's children (Bergavenny line), given that George and Edward's wives were previously confused.



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Bergavenny

Start of work here is at Edward Neville, 1st and third Baron Abergavenny. Genealogics

#01234 5 ______________________________________________ _______________________________________ - Notes
0 Edward III (Plantagenet) of England m. Philippa Hainaut
1v John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG m. Katherine Roet
2vv Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG m. Ralph Neville KG, PC
3vvv Edward (Neville) de Neville abt 1412 - 18 Oct 1476 RA says also marr Katherine Howard (2s, 3d)
3=1=m1. (aft 28 Aug 1428) Elizabeth Beauchamp 16 Sep 1415 - 18 Jun 1448 RA BERGAVENNY 14 V.1 p.320 says 2s Rich and George and 2d Eliz m Th Grey and Kath m John Iwardby
4 Alice (Neville) Grey aft 1435 - aft 1460 Not in RA // ??? Is she Elizabeth? Genealogics also says Alice. // Now merged away. Tudor Place shows 2 children but there is a lot of confusion around for these names.
4==m. (4 Feb 1460) Thomas Grey abt 1435 - aft 1460
4 Richard Neville 1436 - bef 18 Oct 1476 Seems younger brother was heir, so no children (at least legitimate)
4 Elizabeth (Neville) Gray 1438 - abt 1500 merge with sister Alice? DONE
4???? Katherine (Neville) Iwardby abt 1443 - abt 15 Apr 1493 Half-sisters Kate and Kate have DoBs out of order
4==m. () John Inwardby KB abt 1440 - 1525 LNAB // Child and sourcing has been added by Kirk Hess. Looking at medieval genealogy forum it looks like the most popular understanding is Richardson's which is that Katherine had no grandchildren.
4vvvv George Neville abt 1440 - 20 Sep 1492
4=1=m1. (abt 1466) Margaret Fenne 1444 - 28 Sep 1485 RA V.1 p.322 says 6s Geo, John, Wm, Edw knt, Thomas knt of Mereworth, Kent, Rich Knt, 1d Eliz.
5vvvvv Elizabeth (Neville) Covert abt 1467 - aft 1500 RA V.1. p.323 says m twice: Thomas Berkeley and Richard Covert (FISHER 11).
5vvvvv George Neville KG KB abt 1469 - abt 13 Jun 1535 BERGAVENNY 16 in RA says m 1. Joan Arundel (2d incl Jane see POLE 18) 2 Marg Brent (no issue), 3. Mary Stafford (3s 5d incl Ursula see SAINT LEGER 19), 4 Mary Brooke / Cobham, 1d.
5vvvvv Edward Neville 1471 - 08 Dec 1538 RA V.1. p.323 says m Eleanor Windsor 2s Edward (Lord Bergavenny) and Henry (master of harriers) 5d (Kath m Clement Throckmorton (OXENBRIDGE 19), Mary (m Henry Dyneley), Eliz (m Thomas Eymes Esq) Frances (m Edward Waldegrave) Gertrude [12]
5vvvvv Thomas Neville abt 1473 - 29 May 1542 knight of Mereworth, Kent. Genealogics names a daughter with Catherine Dacre. Daughter Margaret's descendants here. More.
5 William Neville 1473 - 09 Jan 1538
5 Richard Neville 1477 knight
4=2=m2. (bef 29 Feb 1488) Elizabeth Brent 1440 - 1500 RA gives no surname (and neither does Genealgics, but this surname is given by everyone to a wife of George's son, also named George), but in any case says no issue V.1 p.322
5 child ??
3=2=m2. (15 Oct 1448) Katherine Howard abt 1414 - 29 Jun 1478 RA BERGAVENNY 14 says 2s 3d
4vvvv Katherine Neville 1442 - 1517 Half-sisters Kate and Kate have DoBs out of order. RA says this one m Robert Tanfield (TANFIELD 14)
4==m. (15 Oct 1488) Robert Tanfield Esq. abt 1462 - bef 20 Sep 1504 RA TANFIELD 18 V.5 pp.129-30 says 1s William
5vvvvv William Tanfield Esq. abt 1488 - 06 Apr 1529 RA TANFIELD 20 says m Isabel/Elizabeth Stavely and had 4s 3d
4vvvv Margaret (Neville) Brooke 1448 - 30 Sep 1506 RA says m John Brooke see WYATT 18
4==m. () John Brooke abt 1450 - 09 Mar 1511 RA WYATT 18 V.5 p.409 says 8s incl Thomas (Lord Cobham), Edw, Geo, Leonard, 10d incl Mary and Faith. Genealogics only gives 7 children. Thomas, Edw, George, Mary, Dorothy, Faith
5vvvvv Thomas Brooke 1465 - 19 Jul 1529 RA WYATT 19 8th Lord Cobham. RA says m 3 times: Dorothy Heydon (7s 6d), Elizabeth (no issue), Eliz Hart (no issue). Genealogics shows 12 children, but 5 with name unknown. Others are Geo, Thomas, Wm, Sir Edw, Mar, Faith, Eliz
5 George Brooke 1469
5 Richard Brooke 1471
5 Alelye Brooke 1472
5 Edward Brooke 1473 - 06 Jun 1564
5 Faith Brooke 1473
5 Peter Brooke 1473
5 Marie Brooke 1475 - 1535 RA under WYAT V.5 p.410 says m 3 times: Robert Blagge; John Barrett, Richard Walden. Follows under CULPEPPER and FITZ HERBERT. Genealogics shows a son George Blagge.
5 Dorothy Brooke 1477
5 Anne Brooke 1478 - 26 Jun 1526
5 another 8 kids, no kidding
4 Edward Neville 1449
4 Ralph Neville [nc] abt 1451 mentioned in RA
4 Anne Neville aft 1457 - 26 Feb 1480 RA says marr John Strange (STRANGE 11) // TudorPlace and Geni make her 2nd wife, no issue. WT has only a QGA line
4==m. (1475) John Strange [9th Baron Strange of Knockyn] abt 20 May 1443 - 16 Oct 1479
5 Anne (Strange) de Ely abt 1462 Detach?

Conclusions at 5th generation: See second project page.

Worth further investigation:

  • William Neville
  • Richard Neville. knight
  • Iwardby stops at grandchild? (If so, no point having an Iwardby line on the second project page.)
  • The rest of the Brookes. Seem to exist only as a list apart from Thomas and Marie? (Maybe from an old visitation.)
  • Add children to WT for Maria Brooke

Proposals:

  • It seems Elizabeth "Brent"'s surname should be removed.



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Edmund of Langley

York

This table follows the line of Richard of York and Cecily Neville Genealogics, and includes King Edward IV Genealogics.

#01234 5 ______________________________________________ _______________________________________ - Notes
0 Edward III (Plantagenet) of England m. Philippa Hainaut
1v Edmund (Plantagenet) of Langley KG 05 Jun 1341 - 01 Aug 1402 RA V.1 ENGLAND p.88 See YORK for issue (V.5. p.445)
1=2=m2. (bef 4 Nov 1393) Joan Holland LG bef 1384 - 12 Apr 1434 RA says no issue
1=1=m1. (Sep 1371) Isabella Castilla LG 1355 - 23 Dec 1392 RA says 2s (Edw, Rich) 1d (Constance)
2vv Constance (York) Plantagenet LG abt 1374 - 28 Nov 1416
2=1=m1. (16 Apr 1378) Thomas Despenser KG 22 Sep 1373 - 13 Jan 1400 RA DESPENCER 14 (V.2. p.453 says 1s Rich, 2d Eliz, Isab)
>>> Descendants of this marriage See #Despenser
2=2=m2. (abt 1406) Edmund Holland KG 06 Jan 1384 - 15 Sep 1408 RA KENT 11 (V.3 p.436 says one daughter Eleanor)
>>> Descendants of this marriage See #Touchet
2 Edward (York) of York KG [13] [nc] abt 1374 - 25 Oct 1415 RA V.5. p.448 no issue
2==m. (bef 7 Oct 1398) Philippa Mohun - 17 Jul 1431
2vv Richard (York) of York [2] Sep 1376 - 05 Aug 1415 RA V.5 YORK p.449
2=2=m2. (abt 1414) Maud Clifford abt 1389 - 26 Aug 1446 RA says no issue
2=1=m1. (May 1406) Anne Mortimer 27 Dec 1390 - 11 Sep 1411 RA says 2s (Rich, Henry) 1d (Isabel) (Henry no profile yet?) // Died having Richard, 21st or soon after
3vvv Isabel (York) Bouchier 21 Sep 1411 - 02 Oct 1484 WT has same DoB as her brother, but they weren't twins
>>>> Marriages and descendants See #Essex
3 Henry died young
3vvv Richard (York) of York [3rd Duke] 21 Sep 1411 - 30 Dec 1460
3==m. (bef 18 Oct 1424) Cecily Neville 03 May 1415 - 31 May 1495 John of Gaunt grand-daughter. See other table. RA V.5. p.453 says 12 children. All have entries. Wikitree has an extra (Joan)!
4 Joan (York) of York 1438 Not listed in RA! Wikipedia: Richard_of_York,_3rd_Duke_of_York
4vvvv Anne (York) de_St Leger 10 Aug 1439 - abt 14 Jan 1475
4=1=m1. (bef 30 Jul 1447) Henry Holland 27 Jun 1430 - Sep 1475 RA See YORK 12.i.a Plantagenet, V.5. p.455 - says 1d Anne, wife of Thomas Grey (see GROBY 17)
5 Anne (Holland) Grey [14] [nc] abt 1455 - abt 1474 Married Thomas Grey // RA GROBY 17, V.3. p.161 says no issue
4=2=m2. (1474) Thomas St Leger abt 1429 - 08 Nov 1483 RA V.5 p.455 says 1s Anth (died young), 1d Anne (m. George Manners MANNERS 11)
5vvvvv Anne (St Leger) Manners [DNA] 27 Jul 1476 - abt 21 Apr 1526 RA MANNERS 11, RA V.4 p.24 says 5s 6d
4 Henry York [nc] abt 10 Feb 1440 - 1441 RA says died young
4vvvv Edward (York) of York 28 Apr 1442 - 09 Apr 1483 King Edward IV. YORK line in RA. RA lists 6 illegitimate children, 10 legitimate. WT has 13 total, missing 3 illegitimates. One of these Mary married Henry Harman and they had children.
5vvvvv Arthur Plantagenet abt 1461 - 03 Mar 1542 Illeg. RA V.5. p.469 says 2 wives but issue only from first. Elizabeth Grey (3d Frances, Eliz, Bridget)
5vvvvv Elizabeth (Plantagenet) Lumley aft 1461 - aft 1498 Illeg. RA says 4s, 3d [15]
5 Isabel (Mylbery) Tuchet [nc] abt 1470 Illeg. No issue
4==m. (1 May 1464) Elizabeth Woodville abt 03 Feb 1437 - 08 Jun 1492 RA says 10 children with this wife.
5vvvvv Elizabeth (York) Tudor 11 Feb 1466 - 11 Feb 1503 m. Henry VII RA TUDOR 14
5 Mary York 11 Aug 1467 - 23 May 1482 RA mentions no spouse or children
5 Cecily (York) Welles abt 20 Mar 1468 - 24 Aug 1507 RA gives 3 husbands: Scope (no issue), WELLES 13.i 2d, Kyme no issue.
5 Edward (York) Plantagenet KG 04 Nov 1470 - aft 1483 King Edward V died young
5 Margaret (York) Plantagenet [ns] [nc] 10 Apr 1472 - 11 Dec 1472 died young
5 Richard (York) Plantagenet KG KB 17 Aug 1473 - aft 1483 died young with brother
5 Anne (York) Plantagenet 02 Nov 1475 - 23 Nov 1511 1s with Thomas Howard,
5 George (York) Plantagenet Mar 1477 - Mar 1479 died in infancy
5vvvvv Catherine (York) Plantagenet abt 14 Aug 1479 - 15 Nov 1527 COURTENAY 10.i.a. 2s 1d
5 Bridget (York) Plantagenet [ns] [nc] 10 Nov 1480 - 1517 Nun
4 Edmund (York) Plantagenet 17 May 1443 - 30 Dec 1460 RA mentions how he was killed but no wife or children
4vvvv Elizabeth (York) de_la Pole 22 Apr 1444 - bef 03 May 1504
4==m. (1 Feb 1458) John Pole KG [Duke of Suffolk] 27 Sep 1442 - 24 Jul 1492 RA. DE LA POLE 10.i (V.2. p.424ff) says 6s (Jn, Edm, Humph, Wm, Rich, 1 missing?), 4d (Eliz, Anne, Kath, Dorothy). Genealogics gives 11 children 7s (including an Edward and a Geoff) and same 4d. Only follows Edmund.
5 Eleanor (Pole) de_la Pole 1463 Not in RA
5 John (Pole) de_la Pole [Earl of Lincoln] bef 1464 - 16 Jun 1487 RA says no issue with wife. Mention of a son Edward who died young (Wikipedia), probably wrong. WT has a bogus daughter Margaret. (Posted source makes her the daughter of a Michael de la Pole, younger son of an Earl of Suffolk, can't find him.)
5 Edmund (Pole) de_la Pole 26 Feb 1470 - 04 May 1513 1d Elizabeth a nun. m Scrope. beheaded
5 Dorothy La Pole abt 1472
5 Elizabeth (LaPole) Lovel 1473 - 1495 RA says no issue with Henry Lovel
5 Humphrey (LaPole) de_la Pole 01 Aug 1474 - bef 15 Feb 1513 Doctor of canon law
5 Catherine (LaPole) Stourton abt 1477 - abt 1513 wife of William Stourton KB, 5th Lord Stourton // said to be dsp
5 Geoffrey (LaPole) Pole 1478 - 1499 Not mentioned in RA, but RA says 6 sons and only names 5
5 William (LaPole) Pole 1478 - 20 Nov 1539 knight, m Katherine Stourton, but RA says no issue
5 Anne (LaPole) de_la Pole 1479 - 1495 Nun. Note that she had a half sister of same name but different mother
5vvvvv Richard (Pole) de_la Pole 1480 - 24 Feb 1525 Has descendants through a daughter Marguerite (RA V.2. p.428-9)
5 Edward (Pole) de_la Pole 06 Jan 1484 - 08 Oct 1485 cleric, canon of salisbury
5 Isabelle (Pole) Myner [UNC] 1529 ??? // husbands to merge . Not listed in RA
4 Margaret (York) of York 03 May 1446 - 23 Nov 1503
4==m. (3 Jul 1468) Charles Capet-Valois de_Bourgogne 21 Nov 1433 - 05 Jan 1477 RA says no issue
4 William (York) of York 07 Jul 1447 - 1447 RA says died young
4 John York 07 Nov 1448 RA says died young
4vvvv George (York) of Clarence KG KB 21 Oct 1449 - 18 Feb 1478
4==m. (11 Jul 1469) Isabella Neville 05 Sep 1451 - 22 Dec 1476 RA MONTAGU 13 (also E3 descendant), says 2s (Edw, Rich), 2d (Anne, Marg). Only Marg had children, but probably the others should have profiles.
5vvvvv Bl. Margaret (Plantagenet) Pole, s.j. Ctss of Salisbury 14 Aug 1473 - 27 May 1541 m. POLE 17 V.4. pp.397-400 says 4s (Henry, Arthur, Reginald, Geoffrey), 1d (Ursula)
4 Thomas York 1451 - abt 1451 RA says died young.
4 Richard (York) of England KG [UNC] 02 Oct 1452 - 22 Aug 1485 Richard III. The UNC presumably DNA misunderstanding.
5 John Gloucester [nc] abt 1470 - abt 1499 Illegitimate. What happened to him?
5 Katherine (Plantagenet) Herbert 1470 - bef Nov 1487 Illegitimate RA. HERBERT 18. V.3. p.280 says no issue
4==m. (bef 18 Mar 1472) Anne Neville 11 Jun 1456 - 16 Mar 1485
5 Edward (York) Plantagenet [ns] [nc] abt Dec 1476 - abt 09 Apr 1484 died young
4 Ursula York abt 1454 RA says died young.

Conclusions at 5th generation: See second project page, but keep in mind that some lines may be continued in other tables because of marriages with other descendants. (Elizabeth of York m Henry VII. See [[[Project:Edward_III_descents_past_gen_5#John_Beaufort_.28II.29_table|John Beaufort II table]]].)

Followed further on Lionel of Antwerp descent page

Further checking:

  • Anne (York) Plantagenet 1s with Thomas Howard, (or did none of her children survive?)
  • More children for (gen 5) Cecily (York) Welles. RA gives 3 husbands: Scope (no issue), WELLES 13.i 2d, Kyme no issue.
  • Elizabeth of York's de la Pole family. Only Richard shows descendants so far.

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Despenser

#01234 5 ______________________________________________ _______________________________________ - Notes
0 Edward III (Plantagenet) of England m. Philippa Hainaut
1v Edmund (Plantagenet) of Langley KG m. Isabella Castilla LG
2vv Constance (York) Plantagenet LG abt 1374 - 28 Nov 1416
Descendants by Edmund Holland See #Touchet
2= m. (16 Apr 1378) Thomas Despenser KG 22 Sep 1373 - 13 Jan 1400 RA DESPENCER 14 (V.2. p.453 says 1s Rich, 2d Eliz, Isab)
3 Richard (Despenser) le Despenser 30 Nov 1396 - 07 Oct 1414
3= m. () Eleanor Neville abt 1407 - abt 1473 No issue mentioned in RA
3 Elizabeth (Despenser) le Despenser [nc] abt 1398 - 1398 Not followed in RA
3vvv Isabel (Despenser) Beauchamp 26 Jul 1400 - 27 Dec 1439
3=1 m1. (27 Jul 1411) Richard Beauchamp KB abt 1397 - 18 Mar 1422 Do not merge RA BERGAVENNY 13, says 1d Elizabeth
4vvvv Elizabeth (Beauchamp) Neville 16 Sep 1415 - 18 Jun 1448 RA BERGAVENNY 14
4= m. (aft 28 Aug 1428) Edward Neville abt 1412 - 18 Oct 1476 RA says 2s (Rich, Geo) 2d (Eliz, Kath)
>>>>> Descendants of this marriage See #Bergavenny
3=2 m2. (26 Nov 1423) Richard Beauchamp KG 28 Jan 1382 - 30 Apr 1439 Do not merge RA BEAUCHAMP 13, says 1s Hen, 1d Anne
4 Henry Beauchamp 22 Mar 1425 - 11 Jun 1446
4= m. (1434) Cecily Neville abt 1425 - 28 Jul 1450 RA V.1. p.301 BEAUCHAMP says 1d Anne. p.302 says she died without issue
5 Anne 1444 - 1449
4vvvv Anne (Beauchamp) Neville Sep 1426 - 20 Sep 1492 RA MONTAGU 12 says she had 2d with Richard Neville, (Isab, Anne)
4= m. () Richard Neville 22 Nov 1428 - 14 Apr 1471 RA MONTAGU 12
>>>>> Descendants of this marriage See #Salisbury

Conclusion at 5th generation. No continuations needed for this table. But see other tables as mentioned.


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Touchet

Work starts in this table with Eleanor Holland and her husband James Tuchet.

Note: For descendants of John de Audley, 8th Lord Audley, see the table for Edmund Beaufort. His line, the main line, did not descend from Eleanor Holland, but from Margaret Roos the first wife of James, the 5th Lord Audley.

#01234 5 ______________________________________________ _______________________________________ - Notes
0 Edward III (Plantagenet) of England m. Philippa Hainaut
1v Edmund (Plantagenet) of Langley KG m. Isabella Castilla LG
2vv Constance (York) Plantagenet LG abt 1374 - 28 Nov 1416 RA KENT 11 (V.3 p.436 says one illeg. daughter Eleanor by Edmund Holland, now removed as husband)
3vvv Eleanor (Holand) Touchet abt 1405 - 1452 RA V.3. pp.436-7. Illegitimate
3= m. (14 Feb 1430) (as 2nd wife) James Tuchet 1398 - 23 Sep 1459 RA TUCHET 15. V.5. p.197 says 3s (Humph, Edm, Th), 3d (Marg, Anne, Constance). Also kids by 1st wife.
4 Anne wife of Richard Delabere knt. internet indicates he was of Kynnersley in Hereford. Leo van der Pas, Genealogics, says no children, but seems to say that often (normal source: Cahiers de St Louis)
4vvvv Margaret (Tuchet) Vaughn 1431 - bef 02 Feb 1481 Order of marriages is disputed.[16]
4= m1. (12 Jan 1457) Richard Grey 05 Nov 1436 - 17 Dec 1466 1st husband RA says Lord Powis, d. 1466. Appears to be same one in Henry IV table.
5vvvvv John Grey abt 1460 - abt 1497 RA does not mention under TUCHET. Genealogics mentions. Grey of Powys
5vvvvv Elizabeth Grey Genealogics says "Her paternity established by David Topping". m Sir John Ludlow, of Hodnet, b. 1459, d. 23 Dec 1493 (Age 34 years) and had issue. This must be a relevant discussion. Seems worth allowing with maybe an uncertain. Elizabeth now put in Wikitree by Kirk Hess.
4= m2. (aft 17 Dec 1466) Roger Vaughan 1410 - 1471 2nd husband RA says knight, d. 1471
5 Elinor Vaughan 1457 RA does not mention under TUCHET // We show her married to Morgan Gamage. DWB thinks Morgan Gamage's wife was Vaughan's daughter by his 1st wife, Denise. Other sources agree but dates don't fit. Some sources call her Margaret.
4vvvv Humphrey Tuchet abt 1435 - 04 May 1471
4= m. (21 Mar 1464) Elizabeth Courtenay 1430 - 01 Sep 1493 RA under TUCHET says 1s (John) 3d (Jane, Eliz, Phil). Follows Eliz under SYDENHAM, and says Phillipa is wife of Richard Hadley
5vvvvv Philippa (Audley) Hadley 1461 wife of Richard Hadley. This good enough?
5 Alice Phillipa (Touchet) Kellogg 1461 - 01 Sep 1524 Not in RA and double name seems wrong She's no longer connected
5vvvvv John Touchet 1465 - 08 Apr 1529 RA says knight. Would be good to see sourcing for the assertion that he became a Norfolk man and had a family there. This good enough?
5 Elizabeth Touchet 1472 - 08 Oct 1530 merge with sister? Merge reproposed. // Now merged away.
5vvvvv Elizabeth (de AudleyTouchet) Sydenham 1472 - 1559 08 Oct 1530 merge with sister? SYDENHAM V.5 p.108 says 3 sons, Henry and 2 named John // Questionable gateway line
5 Thomas Touchet [UNC] 1475 - 24 Sep 1520 Not in RA
4 Edmund (Tuchet) Touchet 1437 - 23 Aug 1524 cleric
4 Thomas Touchet 1439 - Jun 1507 not followed in RA
4vvvv Constance (Tuchet) Whitney abt 1443 - 1531
4= m. (abt 1460) Robert Whitney abt 1440 - bef 06 Oct 1494 RA BEVAN 14 says they had 2d Joan and Eleanor V.1. p.355
5vvvvv Elinor (Whitney) Vaughan abt 1450 Married Thomas Vaughn of Bredwardine
5vvvvv Joan (Whitney) Vaughan abt 1462 - 1550 Followed in RA under BEVAN. Married Roger Vaughn of Porthaml in Brecon. 4s 4d.

5th generation with descendants. See listing progress on second project page.


To do:

  • Eleanor Vaughn??
  • Missing daughter Anne in generation 4, with husband named in RA (Delabere)
  • Alice Phillipa looks dubious, probably meant to be her sister. // Now a Back Street Boy
  • Seems to be a merge needed for Elizabeth Touchet of the Audeley family. // Done
  • Bevan gateway line has been questioned [7]



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Thomas of Woodstock

Several parts of this line are handled in other tables instead, as indicated.

#01234 5 ______________________________________________ _______________________________________ - Notes
0 Edward III (Plantagenet) of England m. Philippa Hainaut
1v Thomas (Plantagenet) of Woodstock KG [UNC] 07 Jan 1355 - 08 Sep 1397 RA V.1. ENGLAND. See BOURCHIER (V.1 p.479) for issue. 1s Humphrey, 3d Anne, Joan and Isabel (minoress nun).
1==m. (bef 24 Aug 1376) Eleanor Bohun LG abt 1366 - 03 Oct 1399
2 Emma Plantagenet [UNC] 1330 - abt 1412 Not in Richardson. Looks wrong. Dubious branch.
2==m. () David Wynne 1315 ??Dubious branch.
3 Howell Wynne 1340 - 1433 Dubious branch.
3==m. () UNKNOWN Eva   lnab Dubious branch.
4 Meredith Wynne 1370 Dubious branch.
4==m. () Morfvydd AP Goch 1416 - 1416 Dubious branch.
5 Robert Wynne 1405 - 1490 Dubious branch.
2 Humphrey (Plantagenet) of Buckingham Apr 1382 - 02 Sep 1399 RA V.1. BOURCHIER. Never married, apparently no issue
2vv Anne (Plantagenet) of Gloucester Apr 1383 - 16 Oct 1438 RA V.1. line followed in BOURCHIER:
2=1=m1. (1392) Thomas Stafford 1368 - 04 Jul 1392 No issue (RA V.1. p.482)
2=2=m2. (1398) Edmund Stafford KG 1378 - 21 Jul 1403 5th Earl Stafford. 1s Humphrey 2d Phillipe (RA, Anne (RA V.1. p.482ff). Also see STAFFORD 9 for same family (RA V.5. p.13).
3 Catherine Glendower Countess ofMarch Stafford 1380 - 1413 conflated person. Not in Richardson, looks wrong.
3vvv Anne (Stafford) Holand abt 1399 - 20 Sep 1432 RA V.1. p.484 BOURCHIER 11.
3=2=m. () John Holland abt 18 Mar 1395 - 05 Aug 1447 RA descent EXETER 11 Also see Gaunt-Elizabeth table RA says 1s Henry, 1d Anne
>>>> Descendants of this marriage See Holland table
3=1=m. (1415) Edmund Mortimer 06 Nov 1391 - 18 Jan 1425 RA descent MORTIMER 14.i Also see Mortimer table gen 4 (no issue)
3 Philippa Stafford abt 1401 - 1405 RA V.1. BOURCHIER. She was mentioned in one pedigree. We also have Bourchier-148 as a daughter from another husband. Genealogics says died young.
3vvv Humphrey Stafford KG 15 Aug 1402 - 10 Jul 1460
3==m. (bef 28 Oct 1424) Anne Nevell1411 - 20 Sep 1480 Also in Neville table also gen 3 (with both husbands)
>>>> Descendants of this marriage See #Buckingham
2=3=m3. (20 Nov 1405) William Bourchier abt 1374 - 28 May 1420 4s Henry KG (Earl Essex etc m YORK 11.i), William, Thomas (cleric), John KG (1st Lord Berners), 2d Eleanor, 'Margaret (RA V.1. p.482) Margaret not followed in RA or WT?
3 Isabel Bourchier dubious??? Not in Richardson, looks wrong.
3 Philippa Bourchier - 20 Sep 1432 dubious??? Not in Richardson, looks wrong. Maybe intended to be Stafford-781?
3 Margaret
3vvv Henry Bourchier KG 1404 - 04 Apr 1483 RA V.1. BOURCHIER Earl of Essex, Viscount Bourchier, 2nd Count of Eu. See YORK 11.i for his wife Isabel / Elizabeth.
3==m. (25 Apr 1426) Isabel York 21 Sep 1411 - 02 Oct 1484
>>>> Descendants of this marriage See #Essex
3 Anne Bourchier 1411 - 1474 Not in RA ??? Merge with other Anne? Genealogics uses the name Anne for the wife of Mowbray, who WT calls Eleanor
3vvv William Bourchier abt 1412 - 09 Dec 1471 RA V.1. BOURCHIER 9th Lord Fitz Warin. See FITZ WARIN 16 for m. Married twice
3==m. () Anne Unknown   No mention of this wife/mistress in RA?
3=2=m. () Catherine Affeton abt 1414 - 26 Mar 1467 No children mentioned in RA FITZ WARIN
3=1=m. (3 Aug 1437) Thomasine Hankeford abt 23 Feb 1422 - 03 Jul 1453 RA says 4s Fulk, Wm, John, Roger, 4d, Anne, Blanche (m. Ph Beaumont and Barth St Leger), Thomasine, Isabel. Genealogics only follows Fulke.
4 Blanche (Bourchier) Beaumont abt 1442 - 04 Jan 1483
4==m. () Philip Beaumont abt 1440
4==m. () Bartholomew Saint Ledger  
4vvvv Fulke Bourchier 25 Oct 1445 - 18 Sep 1479 FITZ WARIN 17
4==m. (abt 1467) Elizabeth Dinham 1449 - 19 Oct 1516 RA says 1s John, 2d Joan (m James Tuchet) and Eliz
5vvvvv John Bourchier 20 Jul 1470 - 30 Apr 1539 RA says married Eliz Wentworth WYNDHAM 15. But RA Vol V, p.433 says it was his 3rd marriage
5 Joanna Bourchier abt 1472 (m James Tuchet) TUCHET 16.i in RA. "issue, including two sons, John and James"
5vvvvv Elizabeth Bourchier 1474 - 08 Aug 1557 RA FITZ WARIN 18. Says she married 3 times. No issue from first, Hugh Beaumont, 1d Anne from 2nd, Edw Stanhope, 1d Eliz from 3rd, Richard Page. WT gives an extra dubious d named Margaret Stanhope.
3 Thomas Bourchier abt 1413 - 30 Mar 1480 Cleric. Apparently no issue.
3vvv John Bourchier MP abt 1415 - 16 May 1474 RA Line followed in BOURCHIER (V.1. p.484)
3==m. (1441) Margaret Berners abt 1418 - 18 Dec 1475 RA V.1. p.485 says 3s Humphrey knt, Thomas knt, John clrc, 2d Joan, Elizabeth. DR follows Humphrey, Joan and Elizabeth.
4 Fulke Bourchier Not mentioned in RA, seems dubious
4vvvv Humphrey Bourchier abt 1436 - 14 Apr 1471 Followed in RA V.1. p.485 BOURGCHIER 13 says 1s John and 2d Anne (m. Th Fiennes) and Marg (m 3 times: 1. John Sandys 1 child, 2. Th Bryan 2s (Th, Francis), 3d (Marg m. Guildford, Anne, Eliz), 3. David Zouche, no children mentioned)
4==m. () Elizabeth Tilney bef 1445 - 04 Apr 1497
5vvvvv John Bourchier abt 1467 - 16 Mar 1521 RA BOURGCHIER 14. m Katherine Howard: 1s Thomas, 3d Joan (m Edm Knyvet), Marg, Mary (wikitree found source saying m but no issue). Also had 3 illegitimate sons, Humph (m but no issue), James (BOURCHIER 15, wikitree follows 1 child), George (in father's will), and one illegitimate daughter Ursula (m Wm Sherrington knt). WT currently handles 3 of his children.
5vvvvv Margaret (Bourchier) Bryan 01 Jun 1468 - 01 Jun 1551 RA V.1. p.485 BOURGCHIER 13 says Marg m 3 times: 1. John Sandys 1 child, 2. Th Bryan 2s (Th, Francis), 3d (Marg m. Guildford, Anne, Eliz), 3. David Zouche, no children mentioned
5vvvvv Anna (Bourchier) Fiennes 1470 - 28 Sep 1529
4 Anne Bourchier 1441 - 1442 Not mentioned in RA, looks dubious
4vvvv Joan (Bourchier) Neville 1442 - 07 Oct 1470 RA follows under LATIMER 15.
4==m. (1463) Henry Neville abt 1437 - 26 Jul 1469
>>>>> Descendants of this marriage See #Latimer
4 Elizabeth (Bourchier) Welles 1446 - 02 Oct 1470 RA follows under WELLES 13.i.a
4==m. () Robert Welles abt 1450 - 19 Mar 1470 RA WELLES 13.i.a V.5 p.334 says no issue
4 Thomas Bourchier 1448 - 03 Sep 1512
4 John
3 Eleanor Bourchier abt 1417 - Nov 1474 RA V.1. p.484 BOURCHIER (child). Descent see MOWBRAY 9. Says she m John Mowbray 3rd Duke of Norfolk, m before 1424 because dispensation was dated 9 March 1433/4. This John died 1461. John and Eleanor had one son John. Genealogics uses the name Anne for the wife of Mowbray, who WT calls Eleanor
3= m. (1424) John Mowbray, 2nd Duke abt 09 Aug 1398 - 19 Oct 1432 father-in-law not husband. He had 1 wife, Katherine Neville, who survived him. Unmarry
3==m. (1444) John Mowbray KG, 3rd Duke 12 Sep 1415 - 06 Nov 1461
4 John Mowbray KG KB, 4th Duke 18 Oct 1444 - abt Jan 1476
4==m. (27 Nov 1448) Elizabeth Talbot aft 1425 - bef 10 May 1507 RA IV, MOWBRAY, p.196 says 1d Anne m Richard Plantagenet YORK 13.vi says no issue
5 Anne (Mowbray) York 10 Dec 1472 - bef 10 Nov 1481
3 Fulke Bourchier 25 Oct 1419 - 18 Sep 1479 ??? DoD matches nephew. Not in Richardson. Looks wrong.
2 Joan Plantagenet 1384 - 16 Aug 1400 RA V.1 Bourchier (child); See TALBOT 13.i for husband m Gilbert Talbot 5th Lord Talbot, Lord Strange of Blackmere. Died as a young wife in childbirth. No surviving child mentioned in RA.
2 Isabel Plantagenet [nc] abt 12 Mar 1385 - Apr 1402 RA V.1 Bourchier (child). Nun, so presumably no issue.
2 Philippa Plantagenet [nc] [UNC] abt 1389 - bef 03 Oct 1399 Not in Richardson. Comes from MEDLANDS, but MEDLANDS also describes as dubious.

5th generation people with possible descendants? See listing being made on second project page.

Further study:

Proposals:

  • Wynn branch looks dubious?
  • 3 dubious daughters of William Bourgchier
  • 1 dubious daughter of his son John Bourgchier

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Mixed lines

This section for families that continued more than one of the original lines.

Essex

starts with Isabel and her two husbands

#01234 5 ______________________________________________ _______________________________________ - Notes
0 Edward III (Plantagenet) of England m. Philippa Hainaut
1 Edmund (Plantagenet) of Langley KG m. Isabella Castilla LG
2 Richard (York) of York m. Anne Mortimer
3vvv Isabel (York) Bouchier 21 Sep 1411 - 02 Oct 1484
3=1=m1. (18 Feb 1413) Thomas Grey 1402 - 26 Jul 1443 RA V.5. p.450 says no issue
3=2=m2. (25 Apr 1426) Henry Bourchier KG, Earl of Essex 1404 - 04 Apr 1483 RA V.5. YORK p.450 says 7s (Wm, Hen, Humph, John, Thomas, Edw, Fulk), 1d (Isabel). No profiles for Edw, Fulk, Isabel?
4 3 more kids Genealogics says Fulke died young.
4 Humphrey Bourchier - 14 Apr 1471 RA V.5. p.452
4==m. (abt 14 Feb 1456) Joan Stanhope abt 1436 - 10 Mar 1490 RA says 1s Ralph
5 Ralph
4 John Bourchier [nc] - bef 03 Nov 1495 RA V.5 p.452
4=1=m1. (bef 2 May 1462) Elizabeth Ferrers 1418 - 23 Jan 1483 RA refers to GROBY 15, which says no issue (V.3. p.159)
4=2=m2. (bef 6 Jul 1490) Elizabeth Chicheley - 02 Apr 1499 RA refers to GROBY 15, which lists no children
4vvvv William Bourchier - 14 Apr 1471 RA V.5. p.451
4==m. (15 Aug 1467) Anne Wydeville 1451 - 30 Jul 1489 RA says 1s (Henry), 2d (Cecily Devereux, Isabel)
5vvvvv Cecily (Bourchier) Devereux abt 1468
5 Isabel Bourchier 1470 - 14 May 1501
5 Henry Bourchier abt 1472 - abt 13 Mar 1540 2nd Earl of Essex, and had a daughter, but she died without issue
4 Henry Bourchier abt 1428 - 12 Aug 1458 Not followed in RA
4==m. (1445) Elizabeth Scales 1436 - 02 Sep 1473
4 Thomas Bourchier bef 1438 - 26 Oct 1491
4=1=m1. (abt 1472) Isabel Barre abt 1453 - 01 Mar 1489 SOUTHWICK 10.iii.a says 2d Joan and Isabel and both died without issue (neither in WT)
5 2 kids
4=2=m2. (aft 18 Mar 1488) Anne Andrews abt 1445 - 25 Jul 1520 RA LUDLOW 11.ii, says no issue

Conclusions at 5th generation: Looking for example at Cracroft, it looks like the only 5th generation people with the possibility of descendants is Cecily (Bourchier) Devereux . See second project page.

Followed further on Lionel of Antwerp descent page

Further study?

  • RA names a son for Humphrey. Possibly died young?
  • Genealogics names an illegitimate daughter for the daughter of Henry the second Earl.

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Percy

See also Ruvigny.

#01234 5 ______________________________________________ _______________________________________ - Notes
0 Edward III (Plantagenet) of England m. Philippa Hainaut
1v John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG m. Katherine Roet
2vv Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG m. Ralph Neville KG, PC
3vvv Eleanor (Neville) Percy abt 1407 - abt 1473 b 1398 m 1412.
3=1 m. () Richard Despenser 30 Nov 1396 - 07 Oct 1414 RA DESPENSER 14.i.
3=2 m. (23 May 1412) Henry Percy [2nd Earl] 03 Feb 1392 - 22 May 1455 RA PERCY 13 Joan Beaufort descendant RA says 9s (Hen, Wm, Rich, Geo, Jn, Th, Ralph, John (2nd one), Hen (2nd one); 3d (Joan, Katherine, Anne) // m 1416
4 Joan Percy [nc] 1415 Source cited on profile says she was a nun [8]
4= m. () Edmond d'Aganet d'Aganet abt 1430 - abt 1461 Not mention in RA under Percy // just Wikipedia vandalism
4 John Percy [ns] [nc] 08 Jul 1418 - bef 1419
4vvvv Henry Percy 25 Jul 1421 - 29 Mar 1461 RA PERCY 14 V.4 pp.359ff says 1s Henry 3d Eleanor (m Thomas West), Marg, Eliz (m Hen Scrope)
4= m. (25 Jun 1435) Eleanor Poynings 25 Jul 1421 - 10 Feb 1484
5 Anne Percy [UNC] Not in RA
5vvvvv Henry Percy KG abt 1449 - 28 Apr 1489 RA PERCY 15 m Maud Herbert 4s 3d. His wife is 5th gen in the Edmund Beaufort table.
5vvvvv Margaret (Percy) Gascoigne 1450 - abt 1520 RA says m William Gascoigne (RA GASCOIGNE 17)
5 Eleanor (Percy) West [nc] 1455 - 1479 See RA WEST 12. Says no issue.
5vvvvv Elizabeth (Percy) le Scrope abt 1455 - aft 20 May 1512 RA says m Henry Scrope Knt, 6th Lord Scrope of Bolton
5 Mary Percy [nc] [UNC] 1460 Not in RA.
4 John again
4 Henry again
4 Thomas Percy 29 Nov 1422 - 10 Jul 1460 RA V.4. p.357 says he was a knt and Lord Egremont. Ruvigny says no issue. Genealogics names son John.
4= m. () Unknown (no profile)
5 John Percy bef 1460 - aft 1480 Genealogics. Complete Peerage discusses him. Seems he existed but was never summoned to parliament.
5 Johanna Percy 02 May 1475 - 10 Jul 1547 Source? // This is another internet version of Arthur Harris's wife Percy-48. They've found her a different Thomas Percy to be the daughter of. Still doesn't work though. Merge away
4vvvv Katherine (Percy) Grey 18 May 1423 - 1499 RA follows under GREY 13
4= m. () Edmund Grey 26 Oct 1416 - 22 May 1490 See Elizabeth's table
>>>>> Descendants of this marriage See #Kent
4 George Percy 24 Jul 1424 - 14 Nov 1474 RA calls him Rector of Rothbury and Coledbeck
4vvvv Ralph Percy 11 Aug 1425 - 25 Apr 1464 RA says knight
4=1 m. (1455) Eleanor Acton bef 1450 - aft 1498 not mentioned in RA under PERCY
5 George Percy Esq - abt 1500
5 Ralph Percy 1451 - 1500
5 John Percy 1455 - abt 1510 [citation needed]
5vvvvv Henry Percy 1456 - 1486
5vvvvv Margaret (Percy) Harbottle abt 1462 - aft 1506 Problematic descendants include Percy-48
4=2 m. () Jane Teye 1427 - 1455 not mentioned in RA under PERCY // Wikipedia: Ralph_Percy says she's the 2nd wife, but WT says the first wife survived him. Looking dubious. Especially as the Wikipedia page has other dubious bits.
5 Catherine Percy 1451 alleged immigrant line here
4 Elizabeth Percy 1426 Not in RA listing of these children; disconnect?
4 Richard Percy 1426 - 29 Mar 1461 RA says knight
4= m. (abt 1453) Catherine Neville abt 1428 not mentioned in RA under PERCY
4 William Percy [ns] [nc] 07 Apr 1428 - 26 Apr 1462 RA says Chancellor of Cambridge, Bishop of Carlisle.
4vvvv Anne (Percy) Vaughan 1436 - 05 Jul 1522 RA says 3 husbands, follows under HUNGERFORD 14, CROMER 15
4=2 m. () Lawrence Raynsford Knt. abt 1419 - 18 Sep 1490 2nd husband. RA CROMER 15 and HUNGERFORD 14 only say there was issue but does not explain
4=1 m. () Thomas Hungerford abt 1437 - 18 Jan 1469 1st husband RA HUNGERFORD 14 says 2d Eliz and Mary
5vvvvv Mary (Hungerford) Sacheverell abt 1468 - bef 10 Jul 1533 RA says she m twice: Edward Hastings (2s George HUNTINGDON 16, and William, 1d Anne m STANLEY 17) and Richard Sacheverell (no issue). (See HUNTINGDON 15)
4=3 m. () Hugh Vaughan   3rd husband He had children, but the mother is apparently not certain: 1s Rowland, 3d: wife of Sir Thomas Victor/Viclu, Bridget (John Payne), Marg (m Staunton). (They weren't Anne's if she was born in 1436)

Conclusions at 5th generation: See second page for 5th generation people with likely descendants, listed so far.

Followed further on Lionel of Antwerp descent page

5th generation perhaps deserving more investigation:

  • John Percy bef 1460 - aft 1480 Genealogics. Complete Peerage discusses him. Seems he existed but was never summoned to parliament.

4th generation and still needing better confirmation:

  • Ralph Percy RA says knight but does not mention the wives and children Wikitree mentions.
  • Richard Percy RA says knight, but mentions nothing else
  • Anne (Percy) Vaughan RA says 3 husbands, follows under HUNGERFORD 14, CROMER 15. Should more children be granted to her?



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Buckingham

Work starts at Ann Neville and her 2 husbands? Genealogics

#01234 5 ______________________________________________ _______________________________________ - Notes
0Edward III (Plantagenet) of England m. Philippa Hainaut
1v Thomas (Plantagenet) of Woodstock KG m. Eleanor Bohun LG
2vv Anne (Plantagenet) of Gloucester m. Edmund Stafford KG
3vvv Humphrey Stafford KG 15 Aug 1402 - 10 Jul 1460 RA STAFFORD 10 V.5 p.15 says 6s Humphrey, Henry, Edward, Geo, Wm, Jn; 3d Kath m John Talbot Earl of Shrewsbury, Anne m Aubrey Vere Knt and Th Cobham of Sterborough, and Joan/Jane
3= m. (bef 28 Oct 1424) Anne Nevell 1411 - 20 Sep 1480
4vvvv Humphrey Stafford Knt. abt 1424 - aft 22 May 1455 RA STAFFORD 11 V.5 pp.17-8 also names 1 illegitimate daughter Anne and says there was an illegitimate son.
5 Anne, illeg. RA STAFFORD 11 V.5 pp.17-8 // has descent, 4s, married William Rouse who d 5/6 Dec 1505. She was living until at least 1515. Some sources named by Richardson here. Here is an example pedigree to modern times. Betham. Habington. TNA shows some papers at Shakespere Birthplace Trust.
5 son, illeg.
4= m. (bef 1455) Margaret Beaufort abt 1427 - 1474 RA STAFFORD 11 V.5 pp.17-8 says 2 sons Henry and Humphrey. It seems Humphrey is only known from isolated namings, 1464, 1465.
5 Humphrey Stafford Genealogics says he died young.
5vvvvv Henry Stafford KG 04 Sep 1455 - 02 Nov 1483 RA STAFFORD 12 m Kath Wydeville 2s 2d
4 Joane (Stafford) Ware 1424 - 1480 ??? fictitious parentage? RA confirms there is a Joan but says she married Wm Beaumont 2nd Viscount (GORDON 16) and 2nd Wm Knyvet of Buckenham. See below. remove?
4= m. (1439) Robert Ware 1415 - 1475 disconnect?
5 John Ware abt 1450 - abt 1500 disconnect?
4 Margaret Stafford 1425 - 1471 ??? doubtful existence - accidental creation? not in RA disconnect?
4 Richard Stafford 1426 not in RA disconnect? Genealogics mentions a Richard but says died young.
4 John Stafford abt 1427 - 08 May 1473 RA STAFFORD 10.iii V5 p17, says 1s Edward
4= m. (1458) Constance Green - 02 Mar 1475 1s Edward Earl of Wiltshire. What happened to him? // now created
5 Edward Stafford 7 Apr 1470 - 24 Mar 1499 Died after marrying. Did he have any issue?
4 Edward Stafford 1428 RA names as son. Genealogics says d young.
4vvvv Anne (Stafford) Cobham 1429 - 14 Apr 1472 Anne m Aubrey Vere Knt and Th Cobham of Sterborough.
4= m. () husband First husband not connected on Wikitree. Would be son of [De_Vere-344[]] it seems.
4= m. () Thomas Cobham 1412 - 26 Apr 1471
5vvvvv Anne (Cobham) Burgh abt 1465 - 26 Jun 1526 It seems unlikely we will find siblings unless new documents are found. See CP corrections proposal.
4 Henry Stafford [nc] abt 1433 - 1481 STAFFORD 10.ii m Margaret Beaufort see TUDOR 13
4= m. (3 Jan 1458) Margaret Beaufort 31 May 1443 - 29 Jun 1509 RA TUDOR 13 says no issue
4 Margaret Stafford 1435 - 1504 not in RA disconnect?
4= m. () Robert Donham abt 1430 - abt 1463 not in RA disconnect?
5 John (Donham) Dunham abt 10 Jan 1450 - 09 Nov 1524 not in RA disconnect?
4vvvv Catherine (Stafford) Talbot 1437 - 26 Dec 1476 Apart from son George Wikipedia and Cracrofts name 2 other children. Thomas is said to have died young, but Ann (not on Genealogics) apparently m a Thomas Butler (at least in Wikipedia)
4= m. () John Talbot KG, 3rd Earl 12 Dec 1448 - 28 Jun 1473 RA says 3rd Earl of Shrewsbury.
5vvvvv George Talbot KG, KB, 4th Earl]] 1468 - 26 Jul 1538 4th Earl of Shrewsbury. Genealogics
5vvvvv Thomas died young?
5vvvvv Anne m Thomas Butler? Hard to track Wikipedia's source. Unconvincing old ones include [9] [10]. This footnote opines and perhaps demonstrates, that there are confusions connected to Eleanor Talbot who married a Thomas Butler, but this was surely some generations earlier?
4 George Stafford 1439 RA names as son. Genealogics says d young
4vvvv Joan (Stafford) Knyvet abt 1442 - bef 1485 STAFFORD 10.iv
4=1 m1. (bef 4 Mar 1461) William Beaumont bef 23 Apr 1438 - 19 Dec 1507 RA GURDON V.3 p.176 says they divorced
4=2 m2. (bef 1477) William Knyvet 1440 - bef 02 Dec 1515 RA GURDON V.3 p.176 says 3s Edw (m Calthorpe no issue), Cha, Jn, 2d Eliz and Ann (m Charles Clifford esq)
5vvvvv Anne Knyvet abt 1480 Not same person as half sister Anne Knyvet-21 who married Thwaites // m Charles Clifford esq. See Courtney table
5vvvvv Charles Knyvet abt 1480 - bef 22 Oct 1528 RA names issue m Anne Lacy 3s Robert, Anthony, William; 3d Lucy (m 3 times, issue from 1st Henry Gate, 3s 3d), Anne (m 3 times, issue from first 2, 1d to Nich Robertson and 1s 1d to Leonard Irby), Alice (m Edm Verney, no issue); Also from an earlier wife, Robert (d Ketts Rebellion), Eliz (m Richard Fitzwilliam of Kilburn (FITZWILLIAM 18)
4 William Stafford abt 1444 RA names as son. Genealogics says d young

Conclusion at 5th generation. Several people have been added to the list on the second page. See here.

Still needing more study before they get moved (or not).

  • Shrewsbury line possibly has missing children, and what about Knyvets?

Genealogics says these all died young.


Note:

  • Actually Anne Knyvet-21 who married Thwaites was daughter of Alice Grey (not Joan Stafford), and had a half sister named Anne who married Charles Clifford. (According to RA.) Profiles have been made accordingly, but above table (and some others?) might need adjustment. (HAVE TRIED TO FIX.)

To do:

  • Add illeg daughter Anne, who has descent with surname Rous. Missing in wikitree

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Threads

Sources

See also

  • Barry Noonan's website: Descendants of Edward III. Additions to Ruvigny's Mortimer-Percy pt I - covers descendants of Hotspur's son Henry Percy, 2nd Earl.



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__________

  1. Julian -> Gregorian offsets are
    1000s +6 days
    1100s, 1200s +7 days
    1300s +8 days
    1400s +9 days
    1500s, 1600s +10 days
    1700s +11 days
  2. 2.0 2.1 Richard of Conisbrough, Earl of Cambridge.
  3. Richardson cites the only primary source but seems unpersuaded. PA2011 2:342 footnote 223. MedLands cites Alison Weir, who presumably got it from the same primary source and guessed the DoB. Not in RA. Certainly should be marked as dubious at least.
  4. Alice was the daughter of Sir John's half-brother John Grey of Kempston esq. by an unknown wife. This is posted on the profile. She has the right father, but she's been left with the wrong mother.
  5. Jane is an ancestor of Oliver Mainwaring MCGA ([1]) Page 138 indicates that the line is by her 2nd husband, but this is evidently a mistake. Gateway line is in place, but there are extra kids in most generations.
  6. http://jamesirvinerobertson.co.uk/BallechinStewarts.pdf claims he's recorded as brother not son of James II, but nobody else seems to agree.
  7. 7.0 7.1 Can't have survived her husband if he married Agnes Constable. Other sources show Agnes as the mother of Sir Walter. There seems to be a theory that there were 3 Walters and Agnes married the middle one. Married 1435, child 1474 is a problem. FaG has a photo of an MI, but it's not original. There's a dubious family pedigree.
  8. Foster. Ignoring all the other bogosity, generation 5 and 12 show a Ralph Neville + 2 daughters & co-heiresses Maud & Hawise - who is supposed to be a distant ancestor of William Heslarton, 13th century, not his wife
  9. 9.0 9.1 Thread. Wikipedia:Robert_Neville_(bishop), Wikipedia: George_Neville_(Archbishop), no use. Key reference DNB - note this Alice has 2 brothers Thomas and Ralph. But the writer is confused. Will in Raine "Hist Dunelm Script Tres", not found online. Dugdale, no use. Not Dugdale, cites Surtees vol 1, not found online. Norcliffe. Flower?. Tong 1530. Dalton 1558 in Surtees 122, p121. Flower 1563-7 is Surtees 133, but no Tunstalls. Fosters Yks Vis, p168, v similar to Tong and the short D2 pedigree in Norcliffe. The long pedigree in Norcliffe is slightly longer than Dalton and seems consistent with 1563.
  10. Has a Magna Carta badge, but doesn't seem to be part of a completed trail
  11. Where is Winslow mentioned? https://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/Neville--FT--41 (The guvnor is on disconnected mother temporarily, but I expect she'll be back - Winslow-4)
  12. WT shows a line to Lunsford's wife Neville-1808, but I don't see it in MCA
  13. Sometimes called "Edward of Norwich", possibly by mistake
  14. All four of Anne's grandparents were great-grandchildren of Edward III. See her Compact Family Tree - Edward III appears at 36, 44, 48, 60, 212
  15. 18th century gateway descendant. Controversies.
  16. Cokayne put Vaughan first, but DWB disagrees. This may be relevant to their alleged daughter, said to have married Humphrey Kynaston. She was born either before 1458 or after 1466, if she was their child.



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