Roger (Quincy) de Quincy

Roger (Quincy) de Quincy (abt. 1195 - 1264)

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Sir Roger "2nd Earl of Winchester" de Quincy formerly Quincy
Born about in Winchester, Hampshire, Englandmap [uncertain]
Ancestors ancestors
Husband of — married about 1221 [location unknown]
Husband of — married before 12 Jun 1250 [location unknown]
Husband of — married Jan 1253 [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Died in Englandmap
Profile last modified 24 Oct 2019 | Created 5 Jul 2011 | Last significant change: 24 Oct 2019
09:01: Liz (Noland) Shifflett edited the Biography for Roger (Quincy) de Quincy (abt.1195-1264). (added to source list) [Thank Liz for this]
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Contents

Biography

Roger de Quincy, Knt., 2nd Earl of Winchester, was the son of Saier Quincy and Margaret Beaumont.[1] He was probably born about 1195[2] (in 1217/18 he consented to a charter made by his father, so must have been of age).[3][4]

Roger was the second but eldest surviving son of Saher de Quincy, a Magna Carta Surety, and became his heir after his older brother Robert died.[1]

Roger married Ellen,[5] daughter of Alan Fitz Roland, Lord of Galloway, by his first wife, a daughter of Roger de Lacy, Knt.[1][6]

Roger and Ellen had three daughters:[1]

  1. Margaret (or Margery) de Quincy, married William de Ferrers, 5th Earl of Derby[1][7]
  2. Elizabeth (or Isabel) de Quincy, married Alexander Comyn[1][8]
  3. Ellen de Quincy, married Alan la Zouche of Ashby de la Zouche in Leicestershire[1]

Roger's wife Ellen (or Helen) of Galloway died after 21 November 1245 and was buried at Brackely, Northamptonshire, England.[1]

By 12 June 1250, Roger had married (2) Maud de Bohun. They had no children.[1]

Just previous to 17 January 1252/53, Roger married (3) Eleanor Ferrers,[1] the widow of William de Vaux and daughter of Roger's son-in-law William de Ferrers (Margaret's husband).[9][7] They also had no children. Eleanor survived Roger and remarried in 1267 to Roger de Leybourne.[1]

Roger de Quincy, 2nd Earl of Winchester, Constable of Scotland, died 25 April 1264 and "was probably buried at Brackley, Northamptonshire."[1][10] After his death, his lands were held in dower by Eleanor and her husband Roger de Leybourne to be distributed to Roger de Quincy's three daughters.[11]

Life Events

On 16 December 1215, Roger was excommunicated by the Pope, along with his father, in consequence of his father guaranteeing the provisions of the Magna Carta.[1]
He "probably joined his father on the Fifth Crusade in 1219, where the elder de Quincy fell sick and died. Since Roger's older brother Robert had died a few years earlier, he inherited his father's estates on his return, but was not recognised as earl until his mother died in 1235."[2]
Roger married Helen, eldest daughter and co-heiress of Alan, Lord of Galloway. Without legitimate sons to succeed him, Alan's lands and dignities were divided between the husbands of his three daughters, so Roger acquired Alan's position as Constable of Scotland, and one-third of the lordship of Galloway (although the actual title of Lord of Galloway went through Helen's half-sister Devorguilla to her husband John I de Balliol).[12]
In 1247, Roger's too strict rule of Galloway incited a revolt. His castle was besieged and, deciding to make a dash for it rather than starve to death, he mounted his horse and bolted through the gates with a few followers. They cut their way through the enemy lines and rode all the way to the Scottish court, where King Alexander came to his aid, punished the rebels and restored the earl's authority.[1]
"In the parliament of Oxford of 1258 he was one of the twelve elected by the 'community' to attend the three annual parliaments and exercise the rights of parliament. He was further elected one of the twenty-four commissioners to treat of aid to the king (Annals of Burton, i. 449–50), and was one of the witnesses to the king's confirmation of the acts of the council (ib. p. 456). When Richard of Cornwall was returning from Germany early in 1259, Earl Roger, in company with Walter, bishop of Worcester, and others, on behalf of the barons met him at St. Omer, and forbade him to cross over to England until he had sworn to observe the provisions of Oxford. After eleven days of dispute they obtained a satisfactory guarantee (Wykes, iv. 121–2)."[12]

Arms

The arms of Roger de Quincy are described as "Gules, seven mascules conjoined, three, three, and one, or."[13]
Professor Salisbury, Family Memorials (1885), page 308, reports that Roger de Quincy assumed the device of the seven mascules and goes on to explain that "it appears that the descendants of the younger sons of Saher de Quincy were very numerous, and, as the lands and property were divided, they went into different employments, and became part of the yeomanry of England, but yet carefully retained the arms, and the tradition of their Norman descent." This may explain the use of this device by the Quincys of Massachusetts to this day.[14]
According to Richard Thomson, An Historical Essay on the Magna Charta of King John, these arms were borne by Ferrers of Groby;[15] who were descendants of William de Ferrers, a younger son of Margaret de Quincy and William de Ferrers, 5th Earl of Derby.

Sources

  1. 1.00 1.01 1.02 1.03 1.04 1.05 1.06 1.07 1.08 1.09 1.10 1.11 1.12 1.13 Royal Ancestry, Volume IV, pages 446-449 Quincy #7. Roger de Quincy, Knt. (Richardson, citation below.)
  2. 2.0 2.1 Wikipedia: Roger de Quincy, 2nd Earl of Winchester
  3. Roger de Quincy, entry in Charles Cawley, Medieval Lands: A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families, © Foundation for Medieval Genealogy & Charles Cawley 2000-2018, accessed 10 April 2019
  4. Birth place of "Winchester, Hampshire, England" is assumed.
  5. Wikipedia (citation above) calls her Helen. Marriage date of about 1221 is based on the birth years in the WikiTree profiles of their daughters (1222, 1223) and her estimated birth year of 1204.
  6. Alan of Galloway, daughter, entries in Cawley's database (see below). The WikiTree profile Alice de Lacy is attached as Ellen of Galloway's mother as of 20 October 2018. Alice's profile notes debate about Ellen's mother, and says (in part) that "Douglas [Richardson]'s pointing to the descent of the Manor of Kippax as proof of his 1st wife's ancestry" is why the profile for a Lacy daughter is attached as Ellen's mother. It also says that "Alex Stewart names her Alice, according to Hans Vogels, in an e-mail." (Lacy-878, accessed 20 Oct. 2018)
  7. 7.0 7.1 About 14 years after Margaret de Quincy married William de Ferrers, 5th Earl of Derby, her father Roger de Quincy married as his third wife Eleanor de Ferrers, the daughter of William de Ferrers, 5th Earl of Derby, by his first wife Sybil Marshal, the daughter of William Marshal. Margaret de Quincy was Roger's daughter by his first wife, Ellen of Galloway. (Royal Ancestry, Volume II, pages 561-564 FERRERS #7. [Richardson, citation below].)
  8. Elizabeth de Quincy and Hugh de Neville were "betrothed by contract dated Feb. 1240/1.... It is uncertain if this marriage ever took place." (Royal Ancestry, Volume II, page 3 BUCHAN #8. [Richardson, citation below].) In Richardson's earlier work, Magna Carta Ancestry, Volume I, page 150 BEAUMONT #3. (Google Book online), he noted that the "marriage subsequently ended in divorce about 1256."
  9. Royal Ancestry, Volume II, pages 561-564 FERRERS #7. (Richardson, citation below.)
  10. Datafield had "(bur.) Church of St. Peter's & St. James, Brackley, Northamptonshire, England" but I couldn't find support for that in the text or sources I could access. Death in England is assumed. ~ Noland-165, 20 October 2018
  11. Calendar of inquisitions post mortem and other analogous documents preserved in the Public Record Office by Great Britain. Public Record Office; Kirby, J. L. (John Lavan); White, Andrew Dickson, 1832-1918. available at archive.org.
  12. 12.0 12.1 William Hunt, Dictionary of National Biography, Vol. 47, subentry for Roger de Quincy (WikiSource)
  13. A.C. Fox-Davies: A Complete Guide to Heraldry, London, 1909, p 147 available here.
  14. Cannot examine this reference - Salisbury's Family Memorials
  15. Richard Thomson, An Historical Essay on the Magna Charta of King John (London, 1829), p XXIII; available at archive.org.
  • Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 5 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham (Salt Lake City, Utah: the author, 2013)
  • Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, Royal Ancestry series, 2nd edition, 4 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham (Salt Lake City, Utah: the author, 2011), Vol III, pages 412-414, QUINCY #2.
See also:
  • A8B36 Bukleley Gen p 12; Royal Anc of Magna Charta Baron p 121,208; Gen of Greens Bouhs Domanet & Peerage;Eng Pub A.L.vol; Eng 116; R710 p 374; Bed 6 Vol 5 236; Bessie Rogers No 44 in Archives
  • Magna Charta Surity. Genealogical Society of Utah; Gareth Rice
  • Ancestral Roots of Sixty Colonists Who Came to New England Sixth Edition by Frederick Lewis Weis Genealogical Publishing Co. Baltimore 1988
  • The Oxford Illustrated History of the British Monarchy by Cannon and Griffith.
  • The Magna Charta Sureties by F. L. Weis.
  • Robert Sewell
  • Grant G. Simpson, An Anglo-Scottish Baron of the Thirteenth century: the Acts of Roger de Quincy Earl of Winchester and Constable of Scotland (Unpublished PhD Thesis, Edinburgh 1963).
  • Plantagenet Ancestry p. 100-02
  • Complete Peerage vol 12 pt 2 p. 753, 934, vol 2 p. 199
  • The Battle Abbey Roll vol 1, p. 26, vol 3, p. 47-49, 87
  • Doomsday Book p. 7
  • Notes and Queries 5s vol 2 p. 129, 171
  • The Roll of Battle Abbey p. 93-94
  • Dugdale's Baronage of England Vol 1 p. 686-88
  • Peerage of the British Isles 1883, p. 447
  • For additional information about early baronies, see the top-level category page Early English Feudal Baronies. Individual category pages (links below) should include information specific to the category.

Acknowledgements

Click the Changes tab to see edits to this profile. Thank you to everyone who contributed to this profile. This page has been edited according to January 2014 Style Standards. See the Changes tab for descriptions of imported gedcoms

Magna Carta Project

Magna Carta ancestry
Sir Roger Quincy is the son of Surety Baron Saher de Quincy.
Changes for this profile show that it was badged by the Magna Carta Project in 2016, but it apparently been badged earlier (in July 2014) in the trail to de Quincy reviewed/approved by the project at that time for Gateway Ancestor Anne Skipwith.
  • Needs Source Check: Span ids are no longer allowed by WikiTree in source citations, so citations/Source section need updating. For Richardson, see WikiTree's source pages for Magna Carta Ancestry and Royal Ancestry). ~ Noland-165 17:42, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
Status of trails from his father, Magna Carta Surety Baron Saher de Quincy to Gateway Ancestors:
For more information about Magna Carta trails, see Base Camp. ~ Noland-165 20:57, 20 October 2018 (UTC)


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On 20 Oct 2018 at 19:57 GMT Liz (Noland) Shifflett wrote:

Best I can figure from the various discussions is that the medieval research experts say that people living before 1300 should not be referred to as "Knights bachelor" so I'll be removing that category. Let me know if it shouldn't be removed.

On 13 Oct 2018 at 23:37 GMT Kelley (Dolan) Rosenbach wrote:

Roger de Quincy has been identified by the Magna Carta Project as being in a trail from Gateway Ancestor Elizabeth Marshall that leads to Magna Carta Surety Baron Saher de Quincy. This trail is currently under development.

On 2 Dec 2017 at 11:24 GMT Liz (Noland) Shifflett wrote:

Hi! The project account for the Magna Carta Project will be added as a manager later this month to meet WikiTree guidelines (see Help:Project-Managed_Profiles). Give me a holler if you have any questions.

Cheers, Liz

On 22 Jan 2016 at 00:34 GMT April (Dellinger) Dauenhauer wrote:

Quincy-101 and Quincy-133 appear to represent the same person because: Quincy-133 was created by mistake - of a person who did not exist. Please help us clean up WikiTree by 'merging away' Quincy-133 into Quincy-101. thank you in advance, April Dauenhauer

On 22 Jan 2016 at 00:32 GMT April (Dellinger) Dauenhauer wrote:

Quincy-132 and Quincy-101 appear to represent the same person because: Quincy-132 was created by mistake, and I'm helping clean it up. It need to be merged away. thank you in advance for your help. April Dauenhauer

On 21 Jan 2016 at 23:58 GMT April (Dellinger) Dauenhauer wrote:

Quincy-133 and Quincy-101 appear to represent the same person because: Quincy-133 was created by mistake and should be merged into Quincy-101, which will also have Quincy-235 (the one with all the data) merged into Quincy-101.

On 21 Jan 2016 at 23:46 GMT April (Dellinger) Dauenhauer wrote:

Quincy-235 and Quincy-101 appear to represent the same person because: The questionable son of Quincy-101 has been removed -- Roger de Quincy had no sons, and his earldom reverted to the crown. Henry de Lacy (age 14 at the time of the Earl's death) was his heir. see Medieval Lands for details. He probably was born about 1195 - gave consent to a charter in 1217 (so was an adult by then). Medieval Lands gives no birth date. I'll clean up Quincy-101 to prepare for merge. The only sources on Quincy-101 are trees, which will be replaced by better sources with the merge, so they have been removed in the interest of accuracy.

On 21 Jan 2016 at 23:30 GMT April (Dellinger) Dauenhauer wrote:

Medieval Lands, the main source cited by the European Aristocrats project, shows that Roger de Quincy, (son of Saher De Quincy), had three daughters by his first wife Ellen of Galloway. He had no sons, and Henry de Lacy (age 14 at the time of the Earl's death) was his heir. His earldom reverted to the crown upon his death. For more details about Roger the son of Saher de Quincy, see 2. ROGER de Quincy (-25 Apr 1264, bur [Brackley)]. It's a free database.

This is a profile of a person who did not exists, no "ifs, ands or buts" about it.

It can "merged away" by removing the connections to the parents and removing the birth date, and merging it into the profile for Roger de Quincy-235.

On 20 Jan 2016 at 03:20 GMT David Robinson wrote:

Quincy-235 and Quincy-101 are not ready to be merged because: More facts about Quincy-101 would help greatly, such as parents and children.

On 17 Jan 2014 at 03:28 GMT J Pictet wrote:

Husband of Eleanor (Ferrers) Quincy — married December 5, 1252

Roger is 23 degrees from Carroll Shelby, 31 degrees from Joan Whitaker and 10 degrees from Henry VIII of England on our single family tree. Login to find your connection.