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Robert (Quincy) de Quincy (abt. 1140 - bef. 1208)

Robert de Quincy formerly Quincy aka de Quency
Born about in Englandmap
Ancestors ancestors
Husband of — married about 1153 [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Died before before about age 68 [location unknown]
Profile last modified | Created 3 Apr 2011
This page has been accessed 19,373 times.
Medieval Project
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Contents

Biography

Origins

Robert was the second son of Saher de Quincy and Maud/Matilda de Senlis. He was probably born in about 1140.[1][2][3][4]

Marriages and Children

Robert married Orabilis, daughter and heiress of Ness of Leuchars.[1][2][3][4] They had at least one child:

Douglas Richardson says they also had a daughter, whose name is not known.[1]

Robert and Orabilis's marriage was formally ended. He subsequently married someone called Eve/Eva,[1][2][3] who, according to Charles Cawley, was sister of Christine who married William Brus of Annandale, though there seems to be no firm source for this. That Eva had a sister called Christine, and a brother Roland, is evidenced by a donation (recorded in an undated charter) she made to Melrose Abbey for the souls of her "Lords" Walter de Berkeley and Robert de Quincy, her brother Roland, and her sister Christine.[3] Walter de Berkeley was presumably a husband of Orabilis: Charles Cawley assumes that Orabilis married him after her marriage to Robert de Quincy ended[3] but Richardson says that she wed Gilchrist, Earl of Mar (presumably Gillecrist) after her Quincy marriage,[1] and Cokayne agrees,[2] as does The Scots Peerage.[5][6]

Life

Robert appears to have gone to Scotland while a young man. He witnessed a Scottish charter which may have been drawn top in 1163.[2]

His first marriage brought him lands in Fife, Lothian and Perth. William the Lion granted him the castle of Forfar[2] and appointed him Justice of Lothian.[1]

In 1190 Robert joined Richard I in the Holy Land. In July 1191 he was in charge of a group of men taking aid to Antioch. The next month he and the Duke of Burgundy went to Tyre to collect prisoners from Philip Augustus.[2]

In 1192 Robert was an heir to his nephew Saher, son of his brother Saher.[2][3] Among the English lands he inherited was Buckby, Northamptonshire, for which there is a scutage record of 1194-5.[3][7]

Robert fought in Normandy in 1194 and 1196.[2]

Death Date

Cokayne says that Robert died before Michaelmas 1197, citing an entry in the Pipe Rolls, but this appears to be wrong.[2] In 1200 Robert and his son Saher witnessed a charter of Gilbert, Earl of Strathearn and Robert's niece Maud d'Aubeney relating to the foundation of Inchaffray Abbey.[1][3] People of Medieval Scotland gives Robert's death date as 1200-1201.[8] Douglas Richardson says he was alive in 1205-1206, when there is a record of a debt he had incurred of £20, but died by 1207-8, when his son Saher answered for the debt.[1]

Research Notes

Merged-in Profile

A past profile for another Robert de Quincy has been merged into this one: Quincy-210. It was unsourced and reflected muddle in an unsourced family tree on Geni.com.[9] One entry in that family tree is for a "Richard de Quincy" who is shown there as father of Saher de Quincy (father of the Robert of this profile) whose parents and family origins are in fact not known; this "Sir Richard's" wife has an entry in the tree which names her as "Lady Judith de Quincy (Orabilis)" - the "Orabilis" suggests that there is confusion with Orabella de Leuchars, wife of the Robert of this profile, called Orabilis in sources in Latin cited in Medlands.[10] - Michael Cayley 13:22, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

First Wife

In an 1898 article, William Ireland suggested that the name of Robert's first wife was Eva.[11] Joseph Bain, in a 1900 article in the same periodical, produced evidence that her name was Orabilis,[12] but William Ireland the same year wrote a response maintaining his position, adding that he regarded "Orabilis" as being an adjective not a name.[13] Both authors seems to have become confused about Eva, Robert's second wife.

Keats-Rohan

Keats-Rohan says that Robert's second wife was called Hawise, a daughter of the Earl of Chester, and that the Surety Baron Saher de Quincy was her son.[4] That Robert' second wife was Eva rather than Hawise would appear to be disproved by the donation of Eva to Melrose Abbey cited in Medlands and referred to above.[3] Keats-Rohan also gives Robert a death date of 1217.[4] She cites Sanders' English Baronies[14] but she appears to have confused the Robert of this profile with his grandson Robert who married Hawise, daughter of Hugh, Earl of Chester, and died in 1217. See also the corrections to Keats-Rohan on the website of the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy which also mentions additional confusion with a third Robert de Quincy.[15]

Previously-shown Son

Robert has previously been shown on WikiTree as father of Simon de Quincy. In his entry for Saher de Quincy, the Magna Carta Surety Baron, Douglas Richardson refers to a quarrel in 1205-6 between Saher and St Andrew's Cathedral, Scotland over the presentation of a Simon de Quincy to the church of Leuchars in Fife.[16][17] There is no indication how Simon fits into the de Quincy family.

Sources

  1. 1.0 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4 1.5 1.6 1.7 1.8 Douglas Richardson. Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 5 vols, ed. Kimball G. Everingham (Salt Lake City: the author, 2013), Vol. IV, pp.436-437, QUINCY 5
  2. 2.0 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4 2.5 2.6 2.7 2.8 2.9 G E Cokayne. The Complete Peerage, revised edition, Vol. XII, part II, St Catherine Press, 1916, pp. 747-748, viewable on Familysearch
  3. 3.0 3.1 3.2 3.3 3.4 3.5 3.6 3.7 3.8 3.9 Charles Cawley. Robert de Quincy d. after 1100, entry in "Medieval Lands" database (accessed xx-date-xx).
  4. 4.0 4.1 4.2 4.3 K S B Keats-Rohan. Domesday Descendants, The Boydell press, 2002, p. 652
  5. James Balfour Paul. The Scots peerage, Vol. IV, David Douglas, 1907, p. 6, Internet Archive
  6. James Balfour Paul, The Scots Peerage, Vol. V, David Douglas, 1908, pp.571-572 Internet Archive
  7. William Farrer. Honors and Knights' Fees, Vol. II, Manchester University Press, 1925, p. 370
  8. People of Medieval Scotland, entry for Robert de Quincy, accessed 23 September 2021
  9. Geni profile: Sir Richard de Quincy.
  10. Charles Cawley. 'Medieval Lands' database, entry for Robert de Quincy d. after 1100, accessed 5 February 2021
  11. William Ireland. Notes on the Scottish De Quenceys of Fawside and Leuchars in 'Proceedings of the Society of Antiquaries of Scotland', Vol. 32, 1898, pp. 275-294, PDF
  12. Joseph Bain. The Scottish De Quenceys of Fawside and Leuchars. Supplementary Notes in 'Proceedings of the Society of Antiquaries of Scotland', Vol. 34, 1900, pp. 124-128, PDF
  13. William Ireland. Supplementary Notes on the Scottish De Quencys, Proceedings of the Society of Antiquaries of Scotland, Vol. 34, 1900, pp. 241-251, PDF
  14. I J Sanders. English Baronies, a Study of their Origin and descent 1086-1327, Clarendon press, 1960, p. 18
  15. 'Corrections to K S B Keats-Rohan's, Domesday Descendants p. 601-900', Foundation for Medieval genealogy website, accessed 23 September 2021.
  16. Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. IV, p. 438, QUINCY 6
  17. Douglas Richardson. Magna Carta Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 4 vols, ed. Kimball G. Everingham, 2nd edition (Salt Lake City: the author, 2011), Vol. III, p. 493, QUINCY 1




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Comments: 10

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I have adopted this profile for the Medieval Project, partly to facilitate merging in another, unsourced, Robert de Quincy profile which reflects muddles on Geni.com, and which it has been suggested before should be made to disappear.
posted by Michael Cayley
At some point, the bio needs an overhaul and good inline citations. I am not able to do this at the moment: if any other pre-1500-badged member wishes to see to this, that would be great!
posted by Michael Cayley
I am now working on this profile. I will be replacing the main biography, which is copied and pasted, without acknowledgement, from elsewhere.
posted by Michael Cayley
edited by Michael Cayley
I have now finished the main work I currently intend on this profile. If anyone spots any typos etc, please either correct them or message me. Thanks!
posted by Michael Cayley
I have just checked the guidance on Sir, and it states clearly it should not be used before 1205. Help:Name Fields for European Aristocrats. So I think that gives me cover for what I did!
posted by Michael Cayley
reading this profile's bio, he is not the Constable of Leinster (Ireland) who married Basilia de Clare at Ferns, Leinster, Ireland in 1171.

Unless I missed something? Let me know if I did. Otherwise, and if no objections, I'll disconnect her as his wife.

posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett

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