Thomas Roberts Sr.
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Thomas Roberts Sr. (abt. 1600 - aft. 1673)

Thomas Roberts Sr.
Born about in Woolaston, Gloucestershire, Englandmap
Ancestors ancestors
Son of [uncertain] and [mother unknown]
[sibling(s) unknown]
Husband of — married [date unknown] [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Died after after about age 73 in Dover, Strafford, New Hampshiremap
Profile last modified | Created 13 Sep 2010
This page has been accessed 18,191 times.
There are disproven, disputed, or competing theories about this person's parents. See the text for details.
The Puritan Great Migration.
Thomas Roberts Sr. migrated to New England during the Puritan Great Migration (1621-1640). (See The Directory, by R. C. Anderson, p. 285)
Join: Puritan Great Migration Project
Discuss: pgm

CAUTION. As per an earlier comment, work to update Thomas' profile continues. Please continue to collaborate using profile comments.]

Contents

Biography

There remains insufficient evidence to determine the parents of Thomas Roberts, as well as the parents and last name at birth of his wife. See: Disputed Parents and Uncertain Wife in the Research Notes below.

Thomas was a fishmonger.

Thomas Roberts was made an apprentice (1615) and later a member (1623) of the London Fishmongers Guild.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8] He took on his own apprentice in 1624.[9][10]

At the March, 1640 elections, Thomas Roberts was chosen Governor or President of the County in place of Gov. John Underhill. He held that office until Dover (then Northam) came under Massachusetts rule in 1642.[4][5][6][11][12][13][14] (Noyes observes that "the territory under his authority was only one town".)

Thomas Roberts signed the Dover Combination, “Combination of the People of Dover to Establish a Form of Government”, in October 1640.[5][15][16][17]

He held various minor town offices; he was a regular member of the church for many years, but was inclined to be liberal in his views, so when the Quaker missionaries came to Dover (1662) he favored giving them a fair hearing and opposed having the women whipped, as they were by order of the court.[5][6][13][14]

He died between September 27 1673 and June 30 1674 those being the dates of his last Will and its probating.[12][13][18][19]

Thomas Roberts was buried in the northeast corner of the Old Burying Ground at Dover Neck. His gravestone is inscribed: "Thomas Roberts. Born 1600 – Died 1674. Pioneer Settler at Dover Point With Edward Hilton – 1623. Colonial Governor of Dover 1640 – 1643."[5][13][19]

Will of Thomas Roberts

Summary Thomas Roberts will is dated 7 Sep 1673; it is settled by 30 Jun 1674.[18]

He bequeathes cash sums, in shillings to his children: John (20); Thomas (5); Hester, now wife of John Martyn (5); Anne (now the wife of James Philbrooke of Hampton (5); and Elizabeth, no[w] the wife, of Benjamin Heard, of Cochechock (5).

He "bequeath, unto my Sone, in Law Richard Rich, the husband, of my dearly beloved daughter Sarah, and to his heires, Lawfully begotten (or to bee begotten) on the Body of my said Daughter (be it Either Males, or females) the Males, to bee Ever prferred, before the females, and the elder, before the younger, and to his, and their assignes forever, my dwelling house, where in, I now dwell, Lieing and Scituate, in Dover aforesaid, to gether also, with all, and Singular, the Out houseing, Orchards, planting Land, and pastures, within fence, or Laying, in Common priviledge, of Commons, proffitts, or Commodities, Advantages, hereditamts, and appurtenances, whatsoever, thereunto belonging, or in any wise, appertaining, and now in my owne Tenure, and occupac'on, and also, a Lott of fouer Acres, of planting Land, lieing and Scituate, in Dover aforesaid, neare my Said dwelling house, and Likewise three Acres, of marsh, by Estimac'on, bee it more or Lesse, Lieing, and Scituate, at the mouth of Winnycott River, neare Greeneland, in Piscattaqua River ..."

He nominated Richard Rich to be "my whole and Sole Exeuctor, (& in Case of Mortallity, my Daughtr Sarah above menc'oned) ..."

Research Notes

Disputed Parents and Uncertain Wife

There are competing theories:

[1] "Thomas Roberts was born in England about 1600, according to deposition. Rev. Dr. Everett S. Stackpole imparts the information that he had learned on 'excellent authority' that Thomas Roberts was apprenticed to a fishmonger of London, as 'son of John Roberts, of Wollaston Co.,[sic] Worcester, 29 April, 1622, and probably came over at once, as an apprentice to Edward Hilton, and lived within a stone's throw of Hilton's house, on Hilton Point.' He was not married at the time of coming over, but probably was married in 1627. The maiden name of his wife is not known, but there is a tradition she was sister of Edward Hilton. Further than that we know not.

Proposed father: John Roberts (1571-1615) of Wollaston
WkiTree son: Thomas Roberts Sr. (abt.1600-aft.1673) of Dover

[2] "As regards his ancestry the following may be of interest... In Mckenzie's book, 'Colonial Families of the United States, Vol. 2, pages 619 et seq. is given the genealogy of the Roberts family in England, and it is traced back to A.D. 1482.... Among the descendants is given Sir Thomas Roberts, of Glassenburg; born A.D. 1560; buried 20 Feb., 1627... married Fances James.... Their children were: Sir Walter; Thomas; Frances; William, who emigrated to Maryland...; Elizabeth; John; Ann. Those who have investigated the matter think there is a strong probability that the second son, Thomas, who emigrated somewhere is the Thomas Roberts who came over and helped colonize Dover."[20] (The WikiTree has assigned Thomas Roberts a life of his own, so this theory is now void.)

Proposed father: Sir Thomas Roberts (1561-1628 of Glassenburg
WikiTree son: Thomas Roberts (1590-1664), Chancellor of Cork

[3] It has also been speculated that Thomas was the grandson of a John Roberts of "Wolastone," Huntingtonshire, who was mentioned in a visitation pedigree as the first husband of Cassandra ap Rhese.[21] However, this Wolaston in Huntingtonshire seems to be different from the Wollaston, co. Worcester, where Thomas Roberts is said to have originated.

Proposed grandfather: John Roberts (1526-1647) of "Wolastone," Huntingtonshire
WikiTree son: none
WikiTree grandson: none

[4] Each of the above hypotheses concerning the identity of Thomas Roberts's father are discussed further in an extensive blog post entitled "Thomas Roberts of Dover, New Hampshire" by Jeanie Roberts.[22] The core of Ms. Roberts's argument hinges of the research of Fredric Z. Saunders, who provides sourced details (with references) about a fishmonger named Thomas Roberts from England.[7]

Proposed father: John Roberts (1559-1615) of Woolstone, Gloucestershire
WikiTree son: Thomas Roberts (abt.1590-) — fishmonger

There is no reason to believe that Thomas Roberts's mother was named Jane Nutter.

Insufficient Evidence

The paragraphs presented here represent facts about Thomas Roberts life and his associations, and historical recollections. We are actively seeking more evidence before considering these as facts that are worthy of elevating into the Biography. For example, if we accept that our Thomas Roberts is the fishmonger from Woolaston, then we should probably accept that John Roberts is his father, which is not currently stated in the Biography, although he is currently attached as father. On the other hand, without seeing that the deposition that Thomas Roberts was reported to have given, we can't confirm any of his basic facts, including his age.

Birth: Thomas Roberts was born circa 1600 in England.

Woolston, Wooster: There are three "Woolston" towns in or near Worcestershire, and another that may otherwise be relevant. Firstly, there is "Wallaston", which is now considered to be in West Midlands, but was historically a part of Worcestershire. Wollaston is inland, not far from Birmingham. Secondly, there is "Woolstone, Gloucestershire", the presumed birthplace of Thomas Roberts (abt.1590-), who claims to the fishmonger apprentice, and whose Roberts patrlineal line at Woolstone is documented through wills for three generations. Thirdly, there is "Woolaston, Gloucestershire", the presumed birthplace of our Thomas Roberts Sr., later of Dover, New Hampshire, the subject of this profile, who also claims to be the fishmonger apprentice, but has no English history, other than a father named John, of "Woolston, Wooster". Woolaston, Gloucestershire "lies on the north side of the Severn Estuary... eight km from the Welsh border". Finally, there is a "Woolstone" in Milton Keynes, which is situated 1.5 miles from Northwich, the birthplace of the Hilton brothers, William and Edward, later of Dover, New Hampshire.

Google Maps: Here is a link to a view of four of the most relevant "Woolston" placename homonyms. Two are in Gloucestershire, one in Worcestershire.

Reported Source Thomas Roberts was born in England about 1600, according to a deposition.[6][12] (Lack of evidence. The deposition itself has yet to be found.)

Reported Source Thomas Roberts was son of John Roberts of Woolaston, Worcestershire.[2][5][6][7][8][12] (Based on Fishmongers apprenticeship record.)

Attestations Thomas Roberts was apprenticed to the Fishmongers' Guild on 22 Sep 1622.[6][12] (Actually, he was made freeman in 1623.)

Source Letter Captain Edward Brawnde is said to have sailed [the Nachem] from Dartmouth, March 8, 1616, and to have reached Monhegan, April 20.[23] Thomas Roberts is listed as a crew member of the Nachem at Monhegan in 1616 as reported by Captain Edward Brawnde in a letter to Captain John Smith.[24][25] [26] (Is the Thomas Roberts on the Nachem at Monhegan both the fishmonger apprentice and the future Governor of Dover? Can we tie Captain Brawnde to Thomas's master William Adys?)

Reported Source Edward Hilton was granted freeman on 10 Aug 1621, admitted and sworn to the Fishmonger's Guild.[7] (Mentioned here as it is relevant to the relationship between Thomas Roberts and the Hiltons.)

Disputed Thomas Roberts is said to have come over with Edward Hilton in 1623.[4][5][13][27] Quint writes: "The tradition that he came with the Hiltons should be abandoned".[14] Jeanie Roberts writes: "However, the Hilton brothers were not in New Hampshire in 1623, so that sinks that story."[8] (We lack evidence.)

Attestation: According to Wadleigh (pp.1-5), in 1623, William and Edward Hilton, along with David Thomson, fishmongers one and all, were given license by Captain John Mason and Governor Fernando Gorges to establish a fishery and a colony at the mouth of the Piscattaqua River. After establishing a salt works downriver to supply the industry, the Hiltons set up their fishing stages and drying racks at a place upriver that the Indians called Winnichinhannat; the Hiltons named it Northam, and it would later become Dover.[16]

Immigration: Lacking records, we can only repeat what historians and genealogists have reported: We do not know with any certainty when Thomas Roberts arrived in North America, and more specifically, the place we now know as Dover, New Hampshire. Possibly he was a crewman aboard the Nachem Monhegan Island in 1616; and/or maybe he arrived at Salem on the Providence in 1623 and travelled to what is now Dover with Edward Hilton; or he could have arrived around 1627 when he was supposedly married; and he may have been in the neighborhood in 1629 at the time of the Wheelwright Deed; and he had certainly arrived and established himself well before 1640, considering his then elevated role in civic life of the Colony of Dover. (We lack specific evidence.)

Attestation Thomas Roberts was not married when he came over, but was probably married in 1627.[12] (We lack evidence.)

Marriage and Family: Thomas Roberts married and they had issue. (I think we can all agree on this much.)

Attributions: The wife of Thomas Roberts is "known by tradition" as Rebecca, who is described as '"a sister of William and Edward Hilton". (Raises two questions.)

The Rebecca question: Underhill, citing "New Hampshire Deeds, Book 3:129-a" records of 1 July 1669: Thomas Roberts, Senr., and wife Rebecca, to John York, certain "land at Durham."[28][29][30] (We cannot access the historical record, but we do have a believable citation from a trusted reporter.)

The Hilton sister question: Numerous historians and genealogists repeat the Hilton sister assertions. There are no records attesting to the existence of a sister named Rebecca in this Hilton family's context; all of their sisters have been considered. Genealogically, there is no reason to accept her as a Hilton sister without some record, other than folklore.

Attestation: According to Wadleigh (p.11), in 1630 Edward Hilton receives a land grant.[16]

Attestation: According to Wadleigh (p.13), beginning in 1633, following the ascent of Captain Wiggin as Governor of the Dover colony, "The heads of the principal families now added by Captain Wiggin to the settlement, in addition to Edward and William Hilton, were John Ault, Thomas Beard, Thomas Canney, Edward Colcatt, John Dam, William Furber, John Goddard, John Hall, Thomas Johnson, Henry Langstaff, Thomas Layton, William Ieveridge, Francis Matthews, James Nute, Hatevil Nutter, James Ordway, Richard Pinkham, William Pomfrett, Thomas Roberts, Henry Tebbetts, John Tuttle and Richard Waldron."[16]

Edward Hilton and Thomas Roberts are the top Fishmongers on the "List of Emigrant Liverymen of London, in 1641". They are noted as "in New England", before Henry Watts and William Dyer.[31] (This looks like a reliable source.)

Attestation: According to Wadleigh (p.24), in 1643, Thomas Roberts was among those who received 20-acre lots on the west side of Back river.[16]

Reported Source: Thomas Roberts was a jury member of an inquest into the death of Thomas Tuttle in 1655.[32]

Dover Library Thomas Roberts family farm was passed down through many generations; it is reputed to be the oldest family farm in America.[33] (Adds historical color to the profile.)

Dover Library "The ancient burying ground, in which all the first settlers were buried, occupies a niche taken from the Roberts farm close by the highway. The graves are mostly unmarked, but that of Gov Roberts is marked with a slate headstone suitably inscribed, placed there about 25 years ago to replace the original. Gov Roberts died in 1674."[33] (Adds historical color to the profile.)

Real Estate Thomas Roberts... "lived within a stone's throw of Hilton's house, on Hilton Point.[12], now known as Dover Neck. From his will, elided for brevity, he wrote "[...] my dwelling house... in Dover... with all... the Out houseing, Orchards, planting Land, and pastures, within fence, or Laying, in Common priviledge, of Commons, ...and also, a Lott of fouer Acres, of planting Land, ...in Dover aforesaid, neare my Said dwelling house, and Likewise three Acres, of marsh, ...at the mouth of Winnycott River, neare Greeneland, in Piscattaqua River ..."[34]

In R. C. Anderson's Great Migration Directory,[35] the entry is:

Roberts, Thomas: London; 1640; Dover [NHPP 1:128; 10:701, 40:4; Lydia Harmon Anc 25; WJ 1:394; GDMNH 589; Wentworth 1:503.] (The key to the abbreviations is located here.)

Sources

  1. Livery Company : "London Apprenticeship Abstracts, 1442-1850"
    FindMyPast Transcription (accessed 24 April 2023)
    Apprentice year: 1615; Livery company: Fishmonger; First name(s): Thomas; Last name: Roberts; Details: "Roberts Thomas son of John, Woolstan, Hillhampton, Worcestershire, yeoman to William Adys, 8 May 1615, Fishmongers' Company"; Father's occupation: yeoman; Birth county: Worcestershire; Birth country: England; Record set: London Apprenticeship Abstracts, 1442-1850; Category: Education & work; Subcategory: Apprentices; Collections from: Great Britain, England
  2. 2.0 2.1 Fishmongers Company Register of Freedom. Admission and Apprentice Bindings. Library Reference No: MS 5576 1. On page 7 of the book in the year 1615: “Thomas Roberts, son of John Roberts of Woolston in the county of Wooster, yeoman put apprentice to William Adys for eight years from”."
  3. Fishmongers Company Register of Freedom. Entry of Freeman and Apprentices Between 1614 & 1650. On page 56 it is recorded that "Thomas Roberts was granted his freeman on April 29, 1623." Stated as follows: "Thomas Roberts, my apprentice, William Adys… presented and admitted… to Fishmongers Guild, admitted and sworn on 29 April 1623”."
  4. 4.0 4.1 4.2 Sybil Noyes, Charles Thornton Libby and Water Goodwin Davis, Genealogical Dictionary of Maine and New Hampshire (Portland, Maine, Southworth Press [in 5 parts, paginated consecutively], 1928-1938; Boston, Massachusetts : New England Historic Genealogical Society, 2012), p.589. (11-Thomas Roberts, Dover); digital images, InternetArchive (borrow).
  5. 5.0 5.1 5.2 5.3 5.4 5.5 5.6 Edith (Bartlett) Sumner, Ancestry of Edward Wales Blake and Clarissa Matilda Glidden with Ninety Allied Families (Los Angeles, 1948), 211-212 (Roberts); digital images, HathiTrust.
  6. 6.0 6.1 6.2 6.3 6.4 6.5 Lora Altine Woodbury Underhill, "Descendants of Edward Small of New England", 3 vols., paginated continuously (Boston, Houghton Mifflin company, 1934), 2:1097-1153 (Roberts Family) at p.1107+ (Thomas^1 Roberts); digital images, HathiTrust.
  7. 7.0 7.1 7.2 7.3 Fredric Z. Saunders. "The Roberts Family of Woolstone". See esp. footnote 23, which cites source documents of the Fishmonger's Guild at Guildhall Library London, Aldermanbury, London. (Link via the Wayback Machine, capture date 26 Nov 2018)
  8. 8.0 8.1 8.2 Jeanie Roberts, "Thomas Roberts of Woolaston, Gloucester and Dover, New Hampshire 1600-1673," The Family Connection, blog post of 5 January 2013; web content, jeaniesgenealogy.com
  9. Livery Company : "London Apprenticeship Abstracts, 1442-1850"
    FindMyPast Transcription (accessed 24 April 2023)
    Apprentice year: 1624; First name(s): Thomas; Last name: Roberts; Birth country: England; Birth county: Gloucestershire; Livery company: Fishmonger; Details: Whiteinge Thomas son of Thomas, Stroudwater, Gloucestershire, yeoman to Thomas Roberts, 29 Nov 1624, Fishmongers' Company.
  10. "Whiteing, Thomas, Citizen and Fishmonger of London"
    This record has not been digitised and cannot be downloaded.
    Date: 1665 24 Jan. (1664). Held by: The National Archives, Kew. Public Record(s). Reference: PROB 4/4760. (Accessed 27 Apr 2023) NationalArchives
  11. Jeremy Belknap. “History of New Hampshire”. Robert Aiken, Philadelphia. 1784. Vol I p.46 (Accessed 13 Apr 2023) https://archive.org/details/historyofnewhamp01inbelk/page/46/mode/1up
  12. 12.0 12.1 12.2 12.3 12.4 12.5 12.6 John Scales, History of Dover, New Hampshire, Volume 1 ([Manchester, N.H., J.B. Clarke Co.] 1923), 302-310 (Roberts Family); digital images, HathiTrust.
  13. 13.0 13.1 13.2 13.3 13.4 Alonzo H. Quint, "Genealogical Items relating to the early settlers of Dover, N. H.," New England Historical and Genealogical Register, 7 (1853):356 (Roberts), in particular part; digital images, p.356. HathiTrust.
  14. 14.0 14.1 14.2 Alonzo H. Quint, "Notes on the Dover (N. H.) Combination," New England Historical and Genealogical Register, 33 (1879):98 (Thomas Roberts); digital images, HathiTrust, "The tradition that he came with the Hiltons should be abandoned"; lists his children. p.98.
  15. Everett S. Stackpole, Winthrop S. Meserve, Lucien Thompson, History of the town of Durham, New Hampshire (Oyster River Plantation) … 2 vols. ([Durham? N.H.] Pub. by vote of the town. (Dover Combination) p.5-6. (Accessed 14 Apr 2023) https://hdl.handle.net/2027/uc2.ark:/13960/t6xw4qw0n?urlappend=%3Bseq=23
  16. 16.0 16.1 16.2 16.3 16.4 George Wadleigh, "Notable events in the History of Dover, New Hampshire, from the first settlement in 1623 to 1865" (Dover, N.H. 1913). (Thomas Roberts and sons mentioned on multiple pages.) (Accessed 14 Apr 2023) https://archive.org/details/notableeventsinh00wadl
  17. Dover Public Library. "The Dover Combination". citing Wadleigh (p.18). (Accessed 13 Apr 2023) https://www.dover.nh.gov/government/city-operations/library/research-learn/history/the-dover-combination/
  18. 18.0 18.1 Probate Records of the Province of New Hampshire- Albert Batchellor, Ed., New Hampshire State Papers, Rumford Printing, Concord, 1907- Vol. XXXI, pp. 145-6. For a transcription, see Will of Thomas Roberts of Dover
  19. 19.0 19.1 Find a Grave, database and images (accessed 22 April 2022), memorial page for Thomas Roberts (1600–1674), Find A Grave: Memorial #35126239, citing First Settlers Burial Ground, Dover Point, Strafford County, New Hampshire, USA ; Maintained by Brian of NH (contributor 47111786). (Includes gravestone photo.)
  20. John Scales, History of Dover, N.H. (1989), pp. 302-303.
  21. Possible ascent of Governor Thomas Roberts of Dover (New Hampshire)
  22. Thomas Roberts of Dover, New Hampshire by Jeanie Roberts
  23. Henry Sweetser Burrage. “The Beginnings of Colonial Maine". Marks Printing House, Portland, ME. 1914. pp.134, 135. See https://archive.org/details/cu31924028809022/page/n187/mode/1up
  24. Edward D. Neill, "Voyage of Edward Brawnde in 1616 to Kennebec and Cape Cod: also, Letter of Capt. John Smith, about 1606," The New England Historical and Genealogical Register, 28 (1874):248-251; digital images, HathiTrust.
  25. Wilbur D Spencer. “Pioneers on Maine Rivers”, Genealogical Publishing Company Inc, Baltimore. 1973. p.17. https://archive.org/details/pioneersonmainer00spen/page/17/mode/1up
  26. Justin Winsor. “Narrative and Critical History of America”. Riverside Press, Houghton Mifflin Company, Boston & NY. 1884. Vol III pp.181, 182, 326. See: https://archive.org/details/narrcrithistory03winsrich/page/181/mode/1up
  27. Everett S. Stackpole,et al. (Edward Hilton and Thomas Roberts to Dover) p.2. (Accessed 12 Apr 2023) https://hdl.handle.net/2027/uc2.ark:/13960/t6xw4qw0n?urlappend=%3Bseq=20
  28. Lora Altine Woodbury Underhill, "Descendants of Edward Small of New England" at 1116, citing New Hampshire Deeds, Book 3:129-a, for 1 July 1669, "Thomas Roberts, Senr., and wife Rebecca, to John York, certain "land at Durham.""
  29. Everett S. Stackpole, et al., (Thomas Roberts sold land to John York on 1 July 1669.) p.35. (Accessed 14 Apr 2023) https://hdl.handle.net/2027/uc2.ark:/13960/t6xw4qw0n?urlappend=%3Bseq=53
  30. FamilySearch library access is restricted: Province New Hampshire deeds and probate records from 1623-1772)
  31. Waters, H. F. (Henry Fitz-Gilbert)., New England Historic Genealogical Society. The New England historical and genealogical register. [Boston, etc.: New England Historic Genealogical Society, etc.]. p.199. (Accessed 26 Apr 2023) HathiTrust
  32. The New England Historical and Genealogical Register, for the year 1868. Citing the "second volume of Deeds in the Registry at Exeter, N. H."
  33. 33.0 33.1 Dover Public Library. "The Roberts Farm — Roberts Farm for 300 Years Passed from Father to Son — Almost the First Settled in New Hampshire, Claim Is Made For It of Holding Record in America For Continuous Family Possession. By W.H.W. Benedict, Boston Sunday Globe, September 9, 1928. (Accessed 8 Apr 2023) https://www.dover.nh.gov/government/city-operations/library/research-learn/history/the-roberts-farm/
  34. Excerpt from Will.
  35. Anderson, Robert C. The Great Migration Directory: Immigrants to New England, 1620-1640: A Concise Compendium (New England Historic Genealogical Society, Great Migration Study Project, Boston, 2015): Page 285.

See also:

  • 2015 Directory. Robert Charles Anderson, "The Great Migration Directory: Immigrants to New England, 1620–1640: A Concise Compendium" (Boston, Massachusetts : New England Historic Genealogical Society, 2015). Vol. 1, p. 285.
  • 1913 George Wadleigh, Notable events in the History of Dover, New Hampshire, from the first settlement in 1623 to 1865 (Dover, N.H. 1913). (Accessed 14 Apr 2023) https://archive.org/details/notableeventsinh00wadl
  • 1907 Captain John Smith. “A General Historie of Virginia, New-England and the Summer Isles 1624”. James MacLehose & Sons, Glasgow; Macmillan Company, NY 1907 Vol II pp 205, 206. [Q.V. The Generall Historie of Virginia, New-England, and The Summer Isles)
  • 1910. Edward Arber. "Travels and works of Captain John Smith, President of Virginia, and Admiral of New England", Contributors Smith, John, 1580-1631. Arber, Edward, 1836-1912. Bradley, A. G. 1850-1943. Publication/Creation Edinburgh : John Grant, 1910. Persistent URL: https://wellcomecollection.org/works/qga23bgv
  • 1883 Rich, Shebnah, Truro -- Cape Cod, or Land Marks and Sea Marks (D. Lothrop & Co., Boston, Massachusetts 1883), Google Books on line <<books.google.com>>
  • 1893 Treat, John Harvey, The Treat Family: A Genealogy of Trott, Tratt, and Treat (Salem Press, Salem, Massachusetts, 1893) Google Books on line <<books.google.com>>
  • 1929 Rich, Evelyn, Richard Rich of Eastham on Cape Cod and some of his Descendants, (NEHGR Jul 1929)
  • 1837 Herbert, William, 1772-1851, and London (England) Fishmongers' company. History of the Worshipful Company of Fishmongers of London, Principally Compiled From Their Own Records. London: Printed by J. and C. Adlard, 1837. (Accessed 24 Apr 2023) Hathi Trust




Memories: 2
Enter a personal reminiscence or story.
Thomas Roberts II died in 1647. He is not the immigrant.

His mother was not Frances James.

See Bulletin Board

posted 15 Jun 2013 by Ed Poor   [thank Ed]
http://www.glassenbury.blogspot.com/

Read above for death of Thomas Roberts II who died in Kent in 1644. Obviously not the immigrant. Go to http://www.robertsofwoolaston.blogspot.com for the immigrants father and possible mother.

posted 28 May 2013 by Ed Poor   [thank Ed]
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Bobbie, For what it's worth.

1) Fishmongers London Freeman, MS 55871, Page 45 "Thomas Roberts son of John Roberts of Woolston, county of Worster, yeoman apprenticed to William Ayde for 8 years from 1615".

2) Fishmongers Apprentice List, page 109 "Roberts Thomas s John, Woolstan (Hillhampton), Wor, yeoman to William Adys 8 May 1615".

3) Fishmongers Company Register of Freedom, Admission and Apprentice Bindings. Year: 1615. Library Reference No: MS 5576, page 7 “Thomas Roberts, son of John Roberts of Woolston in the county of Wooster, yeoman put apprentice to William Adys for eight years from”.

4) Entry of Freeman and Apprentices Between 1614 & 1650, page 56 “Thomas Roberts, my apprentice, William Adys… presented and admitted… to Fishmongers Guild, admitted and sworn on 29 April 1623”.

5) Fishmongers Tax Roll list of London of 1641 The entry for Thomas Roberts is marked as “In New England”.

6) Topographical Dictionary of 2885 English Emigrants to New England 1620-1650 by Charles Edward Banks, Southern Book Company, 1957 "Name: Thomas Roberts, Parish: Wollaston, NE town: Dover, Notes: Banks Mss."

7) Colonial Era History of Dover, NH, by John Scales, Pg. 302 “Thomas Roberts was born in England about 1600, according to deposition. Rev. Dr. Everett S. Stackpole imparts the information he had learned on "excellent authority" that Thomas Roberts was apprenticed to a fishmonger of London, as son of John Roberts, of Woolaston, Co. Worcester 29 April 1622". Note: Because of the poor quality of the document, researchers will find that the year varies between 1622 and 1623.

8) From the genealogist hired in England on the topic of Apprenticeship Usually started at age 14. The typical length of an apprentice was seven years. In London an apprentice had to be over 14 and under 21. To find a master the typical method was for the parents to turn to their friends and/or relatives. In the 1500’s there was no fee or “premium” to be paid to a master. Beginning in the 1600’s that changed. Fees varied greatly depending on the trade. Generally, it cost between 4 and 40 pounds. However, there are examples that range from 100 to 1000 pounds. Payments then could be made in installments. Starting in the mid-1500’s a contract (written indenture) was required to complete the process.

9) In 2003 I hired a genealogist in Gloucestershire, and she researched the following... Wollaston, Staffordshire Woolaston, Forest of Dean, Gloucestershire Wollaston, Northamptonshire Woolstone, Oxfordshire Woolston, Shropshire Woolstone, Gloucestershire The Gloucestershire location is the only one she could find records with the surname, Roberts.

10) To date unsubstantiated from ancestory.com "It is believed that Thomas Roberts came from London to New Hampshire with the Mason expedition in 1623. Governor Roberts' people came from Worcestershire to London, and their ancestors came from Haverford, Wales". To date I have not been able to find a document connecting them to Haverford.

11) Lastly, there are a number of books in the Dover Public Library that document Thomas Roberts, his family and their lives in Dover, NH. In fact, there are a few land deed documents that show Thomas Roberts transactions completed in English Pounds. Here are just a few of the books. New England Historical & Genealogical Register Genealogical Dictionary of Maine and New Hampshire Colonial Era History of Dover, New Hampshire Colonial Families of the United States by Mackenzie

The reason I've decided to post this is that I'm hoping there is someone in England who may be related and would respond.

CR

posted by C Roberts
I have been researching my Roberts line for 30 plus years. This has included several trips to England (London and Woolstone in Gloucestershire). I have hired researchers in England to investigate Thomas Roberts and I have done extensive research myself. All results lead me to Thomas Roberts, father is John, from Woolstone in Gloucestershire, England. There are many Fishmonger records to support this and several are sited in this thread.

Then, in 2022 my wife and I visited the Guildhall Library in London for what I thought at the time would be, one last visit. While there the staff at the Guildhall found the following book; Fishmongers Apprentice List, page 109, with the following entry; "Roberts Thomas s John, Woolstan (Hillhampton), Wor, yeoman to William Adys 8 May 1615". The staff at the Guildhall were confident that the Thomas Roberts I presented to them is the same Thomas Roberts that they showed me in the book.

It is important to note that if you review all of the records on Thomas Roberts there has been confusion over the counties of Gloucestershire and Worcestershire. Virtually everyone who does research (including myself) has concluded that the only Woolstone that applies to Thomas Roberts is one in Gloucestershire. To support this statement, I had hired a researcher in England and asked them to look/examine any and all Roberts from Woolstone in ANY county in England. The short answer is that for the timeframe (1600-1620) and the surname (Roberts), the only county with a Woolstone (of various spellings) was in Gloucestershire.

With that as a backdrop, if you were to investigate/research "Hillhampton" in Worcestershire, you will find that it is defined as a hamlet and in the hamlet is a residence named... Woolstan. Specifically, Woolstan Farm. Further, if you investigate the Lay Subsidy Rolls you will find that Woolstan (Wolstone, Wolsisdone, Wolsiston) appears back to 1275 - more than ample to support Thomas living there in the early 1600's. There are also notes and the surname "Roberts" that connect Woolstan (Worcestershire) to Woolstone (Gloucestershire). This implies, not definitive proof, that there very well could be a family connection. Note: if any of you were to try and research this, you will, unfortunately, find that the Bishops Transcripts, other church and Parish records are very incomplete. Either they have been lost over time, lost in a fire, destroyed during war or if they exist, darn near impossible to read... and these are the comments I get from English researchers on English records.

At this point, it is my conclusion... Thomas Roberts, son of John, "of Woolston in the county of Wooster", listed in several Fishmonger documents, apprentice to William Ayds, recorded as "in New England" in 1641 is from Woolstan, Hillhampton, Worcestershire, England.

Thomas may have lived in Woostone, Gloucestershire but we may never know that for certain as the Gloucestershire rectory records were lost in a fire in the 1800's. However, I am now concluding that Thomas is from Woostan in Hillhampton in Worcestershire. I hope to gain more information as I plan to be at the Guildhall Library in London later this year. I hope this is of some value to all of you.

posted by C Roberts
Thank you for your detailed research notes, C. If you find anything useful at Guildhall please let us know. Many of us are interested in further proof of his origins. Just on WikiTree, we have nearly 3000 descendants listed. so you have an audience here for any good findings.
posted by Bobbie (Madison) Hall
Recently, Bobbie Hall modified the PGM Template to indicate that Thomas Roberts is referenced in "The Directory, by R. C. Anderson, p. 285"

Heretofore, I had been given to understand that Thomas Roberts was not mentioned at all by Anderson.

I wonder whether Bobbie or anyone could summarize the information about Thomas Roberts found in The Directory on p. 285?

posted by Murray Maloney
I've added the entry to the bottom of the research notes section.
posted by Bobbie (Madison) Hall
And here's another clue for you all...

Will of John Roberts, late of Beckford, Gloucestershire. Will dated 1615. Has son Thomas who received money. Beckford is about 20 miles from Woolstone, Gloucestershire.

Name Johannis Roberts [John Roberts] Residence Beckford, Gloucestershire, England Probate Date 30 Nov 1615 Death Year Abt 1615

https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/5111/images/40611_311286-00623?treeid=&personid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Qys1&_phstart=successSource&pId=999555

posted by Murray Maloney
Father known or not?

There is father attached this profile. I have added Research Notes to that profile (q.v.: John Roberts (abt.1571-abt.1615).)

Thomas Roberts profile states, quite strenuously, that we don't know who his parents were.

I would like to detach the father. He is somebody's problem, but not Thomas Roberts. Perhaps, once he is detached, he could merge with his namesake, who is married to his wife, and continue his fate as his own self, but then maybe his father would have to be detached, and on it goes. In any case... Our Thomas Roberts does not have a known father, at least according to his WikiTree profile, so can we please detach him?

Thank you for your time and consideration,

Murray

posted by Murray Maloney
edited by Murray Maloney
Regarding his father, supposed to be John of Woolaston:
Do we know for certain that the fishmonger's apprentice is or is not the same person as Thomas who signed the Dover Combination? (see note below)
If it appears that we don't currently have enough proof to connect the fishmonger to the man of Dover, I would detach the father/son relationship but retain the current profile for the father (John Roberts-6792). We have an apprenticeship record giving a Thomas Roberts and his father's name and residence in Woolaston. John certainly existed and should not be merged away. I would create a new Thomas Roberts to represent the fishmonger's apprentice as the son of Roberts-6792. Then link Roberts-504 (of Dover) in the biography/research notes to the new profile to maintain the data and references for the Woolaston apprentice separately from Thomas of Dover. Maintaining these profiles will help keep the disputed information clear. And if further proof arrives later, we have the profiles already sourced.
Note: you say there's perhaps no evidence that the fishmonger's apprentice is the same man as Thomas of Dover. Has the document mentioned in Saunder's report been found?
4) Thomas Roberts appears on the 1641 Fishmongers Tax Roll list of London. The entry is marked 'In New England.'
This suggests to me that the theory is plausible and should not be completely discounted.

Regarding the title of Governor:

He wasn't a state or Colony governor, but more like a board member of the Bristol Company. Would we add the title Selectman or Alderman to a profile? I won't belabor the point, but I think using the title Governor is going to confuse his position as part of a Company vs leading a Colony or State. I suppose you could go either way, if you want to compare him to Governor William Bradford of Plymouth Colony. If the title is used, please be sure to give details in the biography that explain he was a Dover Company governor, not a governor of a Colony.
[Edited a couple of words for clarity]
posted by Bobbie (Madison) Hall
edited by Bobbie (Madison) Hall
[Comment Deleted]
posted by Murray Maloney
deleted by Murray Maloney
Proven/not proven:
The reason I asked about the certainty of the father, is because I'm confused by the current state of the profile. The biography begins with a statement that there's currently insufficient evidence for the parents and wife. Then it jumps from fishmonger apprentice in London to the 1640 (Dover?) elections without giving us any route between the two. And in the research notes we're given lots of reasons to think you're trying to disprove the relationship.
Are we assuming then that he was not the Thomas Roberts on the Nachem in 1616 since he was in London in 1623?

For his father's profile (Roberts-6792):

It was originally created simply as record for a John Roberts. The "Ap Rhese wife" iteration was recent and can simply be reverted, as you'll note there has been a merge rejected where Cassandra is the wife of the other profile. The source info that applies to the other person can be removed. The unproven father, Thomas (Roberts-11503), can similarly be removed/disconnected, but please keep the link in the biography (in the research notes) that shows who was originally linked without supporting proof, and add it also to the father for record keeping purposes. Two years from now we may want to revisit all of this if new research yields more evidence, and having a trail to follow is easier.

Regarding title of "Gov.":

Restore it if you feel it's appropriate. In 1640, was Dover not simply a plantation on a land grant and not a Colony with a charter? Regardless, you can re-title him as governor.
posted by Bobbie (Madison) Hall
Hello again,

After some untangling, I think that I have unwound the "Disputed Parents and Uncertain Wife" saga a bit.

1) This is Scales, citing Stackpole to report that Thomas Roberts, son of John Roberts of Woolaston, Wooster. became an apprentice fishmonger, and the date 29 April 1622 is listed. According to the Fishmonger records he became apprentice in 1615 and freeman on 29 April 1623. The John Roberts that is currently attached as father is the John Roberts of Woolaston. But there is no "Woolaston" in "Wooster", or even in "Worcester". But there is a "Woolstone" in nearby "Gloucester" as you will see in #4.

2) This is Scales, citing "Mckenzie's book, 'Colonial Families of the United States, Vol. 2, pages 619 et seq. is given the genealogy of another Roberts family in England..." wherein he discusses Sir Thomas Roberts of Glassenberg, whose family is now linked from the Research Notes to their WikiTree profiles. There is a Thomas Roberts among the children, who is somehow the Chancellor of Cork, with no explanation of the transition. Anyway, he certainly wasn't our man at Dover, as Jeannie Roberts also explains.

3) There is nothing here. There is no line of descent to follow. A John Roberts was briefly married to a young woman; she bore him a daughter and was remarried within two years. There is no son named Thomas. Jeannie Roberts explains this all away.

4) This Thomas Roberts is also the apprentice fishmonger in #1, but he is from "Woolstone, Gloucester", not "Wooster". Turns out, Woolstone in Gloucester is the nearest place to Worcester with a name like Woolastan, and this family is conveniently available to suit the needs of most the evidence we have before us. As a bonus, it is shown that this Thomas's brother George was also sent to apprentice, as a draper. Anyway, the family profile exists on WikiTree, with the Fishmonger citations (from FindMyPast, to which I have no access). Excellent analysis by Jeannie Roberts; and Fredric Z. Saunders connected lots of dots.

It took me a while to really absorb it all. But here we are. We still don't know who his father is. And I don't care. I mean, I might care if I thought that we could prove a DNA connection to a pioneer, but alas, brother George had a daughter and no sons.

I'm starting to like Bobbie (Madison) Hall's idea about creating a separate profile for Thomas Roberts the fishmonger from Woolston and attach him as son of John Roberts of Woolaston, and make him adopt Woolaston, Wooster, England so that we can distinguish him from Thomas Roberts of Woolstone, Gloucester. Then we can detach Thomas Roberts from his current father, and make sure that all of these profiles have a Research Notes that acknowledges a dependency among this triple of Thomas Roberts identities.

OR

There are two father/son profile pairs on WikiTree who are based on the same fishmonger apprentice records. Our Roberts of Woolaston and the Roberts of Woolstone. We could talk about merging our Thomas and his father John with the Woolstone Thomas and John. I would not expect that to be a short conversation, but It may be worth having.

I'll just say, I think that our Thomas Roberts is the fishmonger, regardless of the spelling of his home town. I think that the relationship with Edward Hilton was probably born during their apprenticeships. Edward's family were in the business. Thomas may have been seconded to the Hiltons during his apprenticeship. They certainly were committed to each other through the years.

Looking forward to hearing from y'all,

Murray

posted by Murray Maloney
Just to confuse matters further, it turns out that there is a Woolstone in Chester (Cheshire) just 1.5 miles from Northwich, where the Hilton brothers were born.
posted by Murray Maloney
[Comment Deleted]
posted by Murray Maloney
deleted by Murray Maloney
Sounds like a well-needed update. Thank you.
posted by Bobbie (Madison) Hall
I would like to suggest that we add the { {Disputed Parents} } RNB to the top of the profile, since the information has been moved down recently (without collaboration), and should probably be highlighted in this manner to avoid confusion and lead the reader to the additional research.
posted by Bobbie (Madison) Hall
edited by Bobbie (Madison) Hall
I would like to suggest that the father — Roberts-6792 — be detached from this profile for lack of evidence.
posted by Murray Maloney
Murray,

If you post your question about Thomas' father to G2G where it will get a wider audience, perhaps others will contribute further insight into his father. Thank you, S

posted by S (Hill) Willson
Just FYI. Murray and I have been working on the profile. Some of that work has been posted to two free space pages that are very much work in process. Thomas Roberts Research and Thomas Roberts Family Research.
posted by GeneJ X
edited by GeneJ X
Thank you for supporting WikiTree.

Humm... quotation marks precede many/most of the narrative paragraphs. Extractions?

Assuming my suspicions are correct, seem we have another biography in need of an update/re-write.

Have added maintenance category, "needs biography."--Gene

posted by GeneJ X
Roberts-47051 and Roberts-504 appear to represent the same person because: Clear duplicates: please merge
posted by Michael Cayley
The Woolaston Gloucestershire register begins 1587 but earliest dates are in poor (nearly all illegible) condition, some pages missing. Reviewed 14May2021 via ancestry.com

The Bristol register (bapt and marriages for year 1627, then register starts again at 1671 is available at familysearch.org to members or those visitng an FHL https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/541904?availability=Family%20History%20Library Bristol is not on ancestry.com offering of registers.

posted by Beryl Meehan
Thomas Roberts is titled governor in 1639, as referenced by Belknap. He does not give his source.

Roberts replaces disgraced Governor John Underhill after he “refufed to receive his difmiffion when they voted it ... The people of Dover ... proceeded to chufe another governor, Roberts ...”

“History of New Hampshire” by Jeremy Belknap : Robert Aiken, Philadelphia 1784 Vol I p 46 - https://archive.org/details/historyofnewhamp01inbelk/page/46/mode/1up

posted by John Smith MD
In 1616 Thomas Roberts is one year into his eight year apprenticeship when he is named at an English Fishing Camp on Monhegan Island with Edward Brawnde, master of the ship ‘Nachen’ out of London. Either Richard Hawkins, president of the Plymouth Company, documents the names of Brawnde’s crew when he visits there or Captain Brawnde himself does in the letter he writes to Captain John Smith.

“Pioneers on Maine Rivers” by Wilbur D Spencer : Genealogical Publishing Company Inc, Baltimore 1973 p 17 https://archive.org/details/pioneersonmainer00spen/page/17/mode/1up

“Narrative and Critical History of America” by Justin Winsor : Riverside Press, Houghton Mifflin Company, Boston & NY 1884 Vol III pp 181, 182, 326 https://archive.org/details/narrcrithistory03winsrich/page/181/mode/1up

“The Beginnings of Colonial Maine” by Henry Sweetser Burrage : Marks Printing House, Portland, ME 1914 pp 134, 135 https://archive.org/details/cu31924028809022/page/n187/mode/1up

“A General Historie of Virginia, New-England and the Summer Isles 1624” by Captain John Smith : James MacLehose & Sons, Glasgow; Macmillan Company, NY 1907 Vol II pp 205, 206 [I lack access to Vol II.]

posted by John Smith MD
Thank you for this revelation and these sources. This has opened a whole new avenue of exploration.

Based on this information, I was able to add a lot of color to the research notes of Samoset.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Samoset-2

How would one prove that the "Thomas Roberts" listed among the crew of the Nachem, in "Pioneers on Maine rivers", is this same President Thomas Roberts of Dover? Were Thomas and Samoset drinking buddies at Monhegan? Did Samoset introduce him to Passaconaway? This has opened a whole new avenue of exploration.

Thank you.

posted by Murray Maloney
Hi John,

Thank you.

About “A General Historie of Virginia, New-England and the Summer Isles 1624” by Captain John Smith ...

If you are still in search of volume 2, see Rick Pierpont's space page, The Generall Historie of Virginia, New-England, and The Summer Isles. Seems he has tracked down both volumes of the 1819 and 1907 versions. --Gene

posted by GeneJ X
Roberts-10615 and Roberts-504 appear to represent the same person because: although b & d dates differ, both profiles represent the governor Thomas Roberts. Roberts-504 is a PGM profile - all info on -504 should be kept, please. Thank you.
Thomas Roberts of this profile is the 7th Great Grandfather of Winston Churchill, and also my own 7th Great-Grandfather. :)
From Find a Grave

Thomas Roberts Memorial Photos Flowers Edit Share Learn about sponsoring this memorial... Birth:  1600, England Death:  Sep. 23, 1674 Dover Strafford County New Hampshire, USA

Colonial Governor of Dover New Hampshire. Inscription on stone reads: "Pioneer settler at Dover Point with Edward Hilton - 1623. Colonial Governor of Dover 1640 - 1643". He married Rebecca Hilton in 1627-1628 in Dover NH.She died 27 sep 1673, in Dover NH. She was the daughter of Mark-Roger Hilton.His daughter Sarah Roberts (1643-1692) married Richard Rich (1635-1690).    Burial: First Settlers Burial Ground Dover Strafford County New Hampshire, USA   Created by: Tim Joyce Record added: Jul 19, 2005 Find A Grave Memorial# 11389520

posted by Frank Leach
Oops, Thomas Roberts was NOT a governor! He was "president" of a council that had collective governing authority of the little settlement.
posted by [Living Schmeeckle]
Hello, I deleted his impossible parents (in their 70s when he was born). And it might be a good idea to delete the title "Governor," because he was the president of a governing council, which is not the same thing.
posted by [Living Schmeeckle]
Roberts-6483 and Roberts-504 appear to represent the same person because: They both are born the same year in the same place. They have the same wife and the death date is only one year apart. Thomas Roberts is the man that was chosen "Governor" of New Hampshire about 1640. Torrey puts his death date as 1673/4, so about 1673 is appropriate.
posted by Henry Chadwick
http://glassenbury.blogspot.com/,,,,,,,,,,This site shows Thomas son of Thomas and Frances James died in 1644 and left a will. he was not young but he was un-married
posted by Ed Poor
The following show Roberts was apprenticed to William Adys in 1615 not Hilton 1) Fishmongers Company Register of Freedom

Admission and Apprentice Bindings. Library Reference No: MS 5576 1. On page 7 of the book in the year 1615: “Thomas Roberts, son of John Roberts of Woolston in the county of Wooster, yeoman put apprentice to William Adys for eight years from”.

2) Entry of Freeman and Apprentices Between 1614 & 1650 On page 56 it is recorded that Thomas Roberts was granted his freeman on April 29, 1623. Stated as follows… “Thomas Roberts, my apprentice, William Adys… presented and admitted… to Fishmongers Guild, admitted and sworn on 29 April 1623”.

posted by Ed Poor
The Hiltons becoming members of the Fishmonger's in 1622 would mean they are bypassing Apprenticeship. I don't know if this was possible. Thomas Roberts was apprentice for eight years before becoming a Freeman.

McKenzies Colonial Families should not be used as a source for foreign pedigrees

posted by Ed Poor
Ed, I'd like to encourage you to step in and fix up the parents of Thomas.
posted by [Living Schmeeckle]