| Robert Royce migrated to New England during the Puritan Great Migration (1621-1640). Join: Puritan Great Migration Project Discuss: pgm |
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This person is an ancestor of President Millard Fillmore[1]
There are two Robert Royces who must not be confused:
Since Robert’s parentage is still disputed, as is the maiden name of his wife, Mary, he should remain unattached, rather than leading people astray. Links to his possible relations are underlined in the text below.
First: Do not confuse Robert Royce of Boston with Robert Royce of Stratford and New London, Conn. Savage’s Genealogical Dictionary confuses the two men beginning with “ROYCE, ROBERT, of Boston, as early as 1631 or 2; freem. 1 Apr. 1634, by w. Elizabeth had Joshua, b. 14, Bapt. 16 Apr. 1637" includes the children of Robert of Connecticut and then concludes with " He d. 1676, and his wid. Mary was liv. on his est. 1688.”[2]
They are definitely two separate men. Robert Royce/Royse/Rice of Boston died before 27 Oct 1668. Reference two deeds[3], by his son Joshua, selling the land of his late father Robert. [4][5] They were presented in 1676, but one is dated from 1668.
The document mentions Joshua's mother Elizabeth Tearn/Tarne wife of Michael, and formerly wife of Robert. Robert of New London, husband of Mary, was himself still conveying land in 1670, so obviously was not dead.
An extensive search of internet sources, found not one shred of evidence linking Robert to Thomas Royce and Mary Appleton. The first page of 50 Ancestry trees, for Thomas and Mary, list 47 trees unsourced or sourced by other Ancestry tree entries. One gives a source of GDL #170??? One lists a sourced baptism for Thomas, but that is not a link to his son. The third source listed is World Family Tree Vol 22, Ed. 1. (Isn’t that one of those money making discs, with lots of unsourced data.) “Google” Thomas Royce, Mary Appleton. All you get is individual unsourced trees or other sites like mytrees.com. Please if you have legitimate sourcing for this couple as parents of Robert, let us know. Anne B 10:23, 5 May 2014 (EDT)
There is some current speculation on the parentage of Robert based on new findings for Robert, his wife and his children. See genforum "Robert Royce of Connecticut" http://genforum.genealogy.com/royce/messages/893.html. This is not a proven line and even the researcher later in the postings has some doubts about what he thought was one possibility for the parentage of Robert. This would be a great place to start researching for someone who wants to take a genealogical trip to England.
There is a chance that Robert Royce may be the son of William Royce of Berkshire and Lincolnshire.Day-1904 14:38, 16 September 2017 (EDT)
Mary Sims ? Mary Jackson ? Mary Unknown ?
When did Mary Sims first became attached to Robert Royce? It appears in Jacobus' Families of Ancient New Haven, but probably has an earlier origin.
The area in brackets is stated by Jacobus to be unproven information.
Mr. Clarence Leslie Hewitt, Jr. thoroughly disproves this notion in his charming article “Some light on the Marriage of Robert and Mary Royce of Connecticut” in the New England Historical and Genealogical Register. Vol 122 pp274-77. Mr. Hewitt recounts his journey in England in the area of Martok, looking for Robert’s marriage and ancestry. In the parish of Martock, “It was anticlimatic to discover that there was no record of any wedding on 4 June 1634, much less that of Robert Royce and Mary Sims.” Neither were there records before or after giving evidence of any Simses. He and his wife then went to the parish of Long Sutton, Somersetshire, where at the public library, they were able to study W.P.W. Phillimore’s Somerset Parish Registers: Marriages (1898), vol 1. p. 116, where a marriage of Robert Rayce to Mary Sims did occur, but on 4 June 1624, 10 years earlier than the reported date. Mr. Hewitt concludes that 1624 is highly unlikely to be the date of marriage of Robert Royce and Mary, whose children were not born until 1633 ish. He concludes,
Almost at the end of the discussion in genforum mentioned above http://genforum.genealogy.com/royce/messages/893.html, is this post "The Royce Family Association has found the marriage record for Robert Royce and Mary Sims at Martock, Somerset which occurred 4 June 1634. The record apparently had been overlooked by earlier researchers including the Clarence Leslie Hewitt, Jr." http://genforum.genealogy.com/royce/messages/897.html .
The genforum's post is not quite accurate. The Royce Family Association found the marriage of Robert Royce and Mary Sims, but not at Martock and not in 1634. They found the 4 June 1624 marriage at Long Sutton, which had been found by Mr. Hewitt. Their document can be downloaded here[8]
There is no doubt that a Robert Rayse married Mary Sims, in 1624. They also had children, not found by Mr. Hewitt in his searches.
There is no overlap here with the known children of Robert Royce in New England and the Royce Family Association Document has just stuck them on the beginning of the previously known list.
Other research has uncovered another possible scenario. For more detail on the discovery itself see the genforum post cited earlier.
The following information was found by Charles Julian in the IGI Indexes, confirmed in England by Hal Whitmore[13] or can be looked up at https://familysearch.org/search/collection/igi
Robert Royse & Mary Jugkson married 8 Apr 1627, Saint Michael, Stamford, Lincoln, England.[14]
Note that the names John/Jonathan, Sara, & Nehemiah, are the names of children of Robert Royce and Mary that came with him from England. Which feels like the more likely scenario?
All the above having been said, bear in mind that none of the above constitutes proof, that either of these Roberts is the New England Robert. There may be more information to be found, more families of Robert & Mary, or there may be no information on this family at all. We all like to fill the blanks on our genealogical charts and it’s always fun to find out that you’re related to someone important, but the world is made up of ordinary people, who lead ordinary lives. They are important to the people that they care for and the people that love & respect them. That should be enough for anyone.
Robert Royce was born about 1605 in England. There are various baptismal dates that are possibilities: March 1, 1603, Robert, son of Robert, Martok;[21] and Robert Royse bapt 29 May 1597, Kingsbury, Episcopi, Somerset, son of Robert[22] Until one is proven to be correct, about 1605 is sufficient.
He married in England – Mary. Perhaps Mary Sims in 1624 or Mary Jugkson (Jackson) in 1627.
He died in 1676. There is no record of his death (not an uncommon occurrence) but it would have been before Sept 22, 1676, when an inventory of his estate valued at £420.11 was presented at court. One important point about the distribution of his estate is that besides his wife and some charitable gifts to the church, his estate goes to five sons and three daughters. We only know the names of two of his then living daughters.[23]
“Unfortunately the will and inventory have not been preserved and the record of them, if any was made, was probably destroyed at the burning of New London by the traitor Arnold in 1781.”[23]
It is believed that the widow, Mary, continued on the “Post Lot” until her declining years, when she went to live with one of her children, in Wallingford, where she died.
What did Robert do with his life between his birth and death, beside marrying a wife and having children?
'IMMIGRATION:' Robert left England between 1637 (the baptism of Nehemiah) and 1648 when the first located record of him is found in New England. The years between were turbulent times as England fought over it's method of government in the period known as the English Civil War.[24]
“Robert Rice was not of the original proprietors but came soon after them and was granted land from the town which was recorded Sept. 16, 1648, which is the earliest record now on the town books. ... The record says: “One house lot, two acres, more or less, butting south upon the highway”... He had also “meadow and upland in the Old Field, 8 acres in the Newfeyld...” and other pieces elsewhere. On February 6, 1660, Mr. Rice sold these parcels of land, including “one house lot, one dwelling house upon it and barn” ... and removed to New London.” His house lot was # 74.[25][26]
In Oct 1656, Robert Rice and Philip Groves were appointed leather sealers for Stratford.[25]
LAND: Beginning in 1657, Robert Royce acquired and sold land recorded in the New London town land records. He bought a houselot of John Elderkin, and was subsequently given, by the town, some additional land nearby the future burial place. December 1, 1658, the town gave him ten acres of upland woodland by Mill Brook. April 2, 1659, Richard Smith Junior of Wethersfield sold to Robert his house and lot, ten acres next to Scull Plain, four acres in the Neck, four acres of fresh meadow and twenty-four acres of upland. September 11, 1660, John Stebbins deeded to him sixteen acres of upland by the Mill Brook and his six acre lot with the remaining part of Post Hill adjoining that which Robert already owned.[23]
January 7, 1662, and August 10, 1664, Robert conveyed and gave several of his lots with homes and buildings to his sons Nehemiah, Samuel, Nathaniel and Isaac.[23]
December 28, 1664, he purchased from William Measure and his wife Alice two acres of land on the highway. Robert Royce and his wife Mary sold this land to Lawrence Codner, April 29, 1670, and in the deed Robert's occupation is given as that of a shoemaker.[23]
An examination of the records reveals the purchase and sale by him of other tracts of land in various parts of the town. More of this land was sold in 1688 and 1697, by Robert’s heirs.[23]
A rate list for the “Ministry Tax” of 1664 shows the valuation of Robert's property at £163.[23][27]
CHURCH AFFILIATION: Mr. Bradstreet was ordained 5 Oct 1670 and he began his record of the church on that date, creating first a list of members which containing the name of Robert Royce but not his wife.[27]
TOWN SERVICE: May 1660, Constable of the town; 1661, Deputy to the General Court; 1663 and 1668, appointed Townsman; December 9, 1667, he and Gabriel Harris were chosen "to gather ye Towne Rate in the Towne plat for this yeere"; September 1666, he was on the jury of the County Court; September 1668, appointed one of the Grand Jurors for New London.[23]
OCCUPATION: Leather worker, shoemaker, keeper of the ordinary. 25 Feb. 66-7."Robert Rice (Royce) voated and chosen by the towne to keep ye Ordinary." Here he entertained the new minister, Reverend Simon Bradstreet, as the following vote shows: "To Goodman Royce for ye ministers dyet, 15 lb."[23]
Robert Roice and his son Nathaniel Royce are on the list of original proprietors of Wallingford.[28] It doesn't appear that Robert actually lived there but bought land to accommodate his sons Nehemiah, Samuel, Nathaniel, and Isaac who relocated to Wallingford.[27]
CHILDREN: The traditional list of Robert's children without the English baptisms:[7]
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Robert is 21 degrees from Zendaya Coleman, 23 degrees from Sting Sumner, 15 degrees from Josh Brolin, 17 degrees from Timothée Chalamet, 13 degrees from José Ferrer, 12 degrees from Frank Herbert, 12 degrees from Richard Jordan, 17 degrees from David Lynch, 11 degrees from Virginia Madsen, 18 degrees from Charlotte Rampling, 23 degrees from Patrick Stewart and 17 degrees from Denis Villeneuve on our single family tree. Login to find your connection.
Given the uncertainties regarding Robert and Mary (UNKNOWN) … and … independent of the “traditional list” of Robert’s children … is there any evidence/proof that these children are siblings?
I’m particularly interested in Sarah and Samuel. Are they sister and brother? Can this relationship be confidently inferred from other available sources unrelated to the proposed parents?
edited by Ken Bashford
… WikiTree’s connection/relationship algorithms are also lead astray.
BUT there is a Robert Royse bapt 29 May 1597 Kingsbury Episcopi, Somerset, son of Robert Image 11 https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/60856/images/engl78030_d-p-k-ep-2-1-1_m_00010?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=2cc84279a903c5b0d808b75df84d16e8&usePUB=true&_phsrc=IzZ326&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=4667072
It is less than 6 m Long Sutton to Kingsbury where the marr 4 June 1624 took place to Mary Sims.
I can see the bapt Robert, son of Robert Rayse and Margaret dau of Robert Rayse 6 Jan 1626 at Long Sutton both on image 24 I can see the bapt Mary Rayse dau of Robert 19 April 1629 at Long Sutton image 25 https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/60856/images/42886_1831109388_0453-00025?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=52bdb222a254917a30f8bb569503cc88&usePUB=true&_phsrc=IzZ328&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=2901514
...just when you think you've read it all... :-)
Formatting Templates (Approved)
Personally, I think the use of color in biographies is very distracting. It makes reading the text more difficult, especially when several colors/bold print are used close together.
I looked but can't find it.
Thomas married Mary APPLETON about 1604 of New London, New London, Connecticut, USA. Mary was born about 1587 in Martock, Somerset, England and died in 1629 in Martock, Somerset, England about age 42. The child from this marriage was: 8524 i. Robert ROYCE (born on 1 Mar 1562 in Martock, Somersetshire, England - died in 1676-1684 in New London, New London, Connecticut, USA) Links http://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p2453.htm#i73722