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William (Sandes) Sandys (1439 - 1470)

William Sandys formerly Sandes
Born in Furness, Lancashire, Englandmap
Ancestors ancestors
Son of [uncertain] and [uncertain]
Brother of [half]
Husband of — married [date unknown] [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Died at about age 31 in Furness, Lancashire, Englandmap
Profile last modified | Created 3 May 2012
This page has been accessed 11,090 times.

Biography

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William (Sandes) Sandys is managed by the England Project.
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Easily Confused:
  • William Sandes of Furness, Lancashire
  • William Sandys of The Vyne, Hampshire
See the text for details.

In about 1458 William married Margaret Rawson[1] or Rawlinson, daughter and heiress of William Rawson of York, also the cousin and heiress of Thomas Rawlinson, the Abbot of Furness. William and Margaret had at least two sons:

  • George who married Margaret Curwen
  • Robert of Hawkshead

Research Notes

The Visitations are confusing in their attributions of William's parents and should not be relied on. William Sandes who married Margaret Rawson was a son of WIlliam Sandes of Furness Fells [2][3][4] or a son of George of Furness Fells [5] [6] or a son of John Sandes of Furnace Fells. [7] At the moment, the parents currently attached are marked uncertain.

Alumni Cantabrigiensis lists a William Sandys as a scholar at King's Hall 1449-1459 but provides no details as to either his father or his place of origin. [8]


Sources

  1. The visitation of the county of Cumberland in the year 1615: Saint-George, Richard, Sir Internet Archive accessed:16 December 2022
  2. The visitation of the county of Buckingham made in 1634 by John Philipot, Internet Archive accessed:15 December 2022
  3. "Parishes: Upper Clatford," in A History of the County of Hampshire: Volume 4, ed. William Page (London: Victoria County History, 1911), 359-365. British History Online, accessed December 15, 2022, BHO
  4. A history of the Vyne in Hampshire; being a short account of the building & antiquities of that house, situate in the parish of Sherborne, St. John co., Hants, & of persons who have at some time lived there: Chute, Chaloner William, 1838-1890 Internet Archive accessed:15 December 2022
  5. The Visitation of the county of Worcester made in the year 1569: with other pedigrees relating to that county from Richard Mundy's collection: Phillimore, W. P. W. (William Phillimore Watts), 1853-1913 Internet Archive accessed:15 December 2022
  6. The visitation of Cambridge made in (1575) Continued and enlarged with the visitation of the county made by Henery St. George, Richmond herald, marshall and deputy to Willm. Camdem, Clarenceulx, in 1619, with many other descents added therto: (Saint-George, Henry, Sir,,), 1581-1644: Internet Archive Internet Archive accessed:15 December 2022
  7. Sandes Pedigree PDF
  8. Book: University of Cambridge; Venn, John, 1834-1923; Venn, J. A. (John Archibald), b. 1883, Alumni cantabrigienses; a biographical list of all known students, graduates and holders of office at the University of Cambridge, from the earliest times to 1900;
    Cambridge, University Press; 1922-54; page: 18
    Internet Archive (accessed 6 December 2023)




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Comments: 19

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Sandys-97 and Sandes-19 appear to represent the same person because: Seem to be duplicates - all dates are appear to be guesses. Only one son William in this family.
If i knew how to send a chart as I would for a normal email attachment to explain the different branches off the Sandes/Sandys family I would.

There are four main branches, two in the north-west of England (at St Bees and at Esthwaite) and two in the south (at the Vyne and in the Guildford area). The two branches in the south have a common ancestor with those in the north as all four are descended from Richard del Sandes III of Burgh-by-Sands near Carlisle. I am descended from a fifth branch which is a sub-branch of the Sandes of Esthwaite. Can anyone tell me how to send the chart and to whom to send it? Nick Alexander [email address removed]

posted by Nick Alexander
Thank you for your offer Nick. We will be in touch via the WikiTree private messaging system.
posted by Jo Fitz-Henry
Hello Profile Managers! The England Project would like to comanage this profile with you as William Sandes is a conflated profile. There is definitely a Hampshire William and a Lancashire William that need to be separated. He needs unpicking after his four merges, and then Project Protection so he doesn't get merged again. I will sent a Trusted List request from the England Project account.

Best wishes, Jo, England Project Managed Profiles Team coordinator

posted by Jo Fitz-Henry
Nick Alexander is right: it is most improbable that this man was born at The Vyne. His parents lived at Furness Fells.

He and his children were at Hawkshead and Esthwaite, both then in Lancashire but near Ambleside.

The family of Sandys of The Vyne was a different line. See the drop charts at https://ancestry.sandes.uk/sites/default/files/documents/books/soc/12 Section V Part 2 - Pedigrees.pdf which I think come from the book Some Notes for a History of the Family of Sandys of Great Britain, Ireland, [...] by Comley Vivian and Thomas Miles Sandys.

posted by Hugh C
edited by Hugh C
We are dependent in most cases on transcriptions from ancient hand-written documents. When these transcriptions are done carefully they often show different spellings of the Sands/Sandes/Sandys family surname in the same document. Sandys does not appear to been common before the 17th Century and it never was used at all in the Rottington St Bees branch of the family or in the Lancaster sub-branch of the Esthwaite branch of the family. It seems sensible to me to show Sandes and Sandys as inter-changeable and to recognise that many records with either of these spellings refer to the same person.

A bigger problem is that there was a separate family named SONDES and their members are very often transcribed as Sandes. There is very little difference between an "o" and an "a" in old manuscripts. The Sondes family originated in Sussex, moved to Surrey and then established themselves at Throwley near Faversham in Kent. Particular members of the Sondes family frequently shown as Sandes include: William Sondes Citizen and Grocer and Elizabeth Sondes Lady in Waiting to Queen Elizabeth I.

This profile conflates two separate William Sandes/Sandys.

One is William Sandes of Esthwaite Hall c1435-1515 who married Margaret Rawson (or Rawlinson) in c1458 when he completed his period of study as a scholar at King's Hall Cambridge. He was the father of George Sandes of Esthwaite, Robert Sandes of Hawkshead Field Head and William Sandes of Graythwaite Field Head. Esthwaite Hall is beside Esthwaite Water about 1 1/2 miles south of Hawkshead Village. Hawkshead Field Head is a farm on the boundary between the cultivated land and open moorland about 1 mile north of Hawkshead Village and Graythwaite Field Head is in a similar position on the boundary between the cultivated land and a wooded hillside above Graythwaite Hall which is about 3 miles south of Esthwaite Hall. (The Rawlinsons lived at Graythwaite Old Hall 1/4 mile south of Graythwaite Hall. All of these places are in the Furness Fells area north of Morcambe Bay which used to be part of Lancashire but is now in Cumbria.

The other William is Sir William Sandes/Sandys of East Cholderton near Andover in Hampshire (1439-1496) who married Margaret Cheyne/Cheney in c1464. They had three sons John Sandes (1465-1486), Sir William Sandys (c1466-1540) and Sir Ricahrd sandys (c1470-1539). The first Sir William was the older son of Thomas Sandes (1402-1442) and Sybil (d1445) of East Cholderton. William was knighted at the battle of Tewkesbury in 1471. The second Sir William Sandys was knighted at the Battle of East Stoke in 1487. he later became the first Baron Sandys of The Vyne. The two Sir Williams are sometimes confused/conflated but one document written by the first Sir William expressly refers to "my son Sir William".

posted by Nick Alexander
edited by Nick Alexander
Nick has made lengthy contributions to the Sande surname via email and we need a pre -1500 profile badge-certified Profile Manager to make changes. ( I am not Pre-1500 certified.)

I have added Nick to this profile so he can more readily track comments and changes.

posted by Sandy Culver
I show this person as my 16-great grandfather, but I defer to others who have the expertise to do the research with certainty.
posted by David Mark Cordell
Is there a source for his death being in Lancashire?
posted by C. Mackinnon
I don't have any further information.
posted by David Mark Cordell
Smythesmith-1 and Sandys-97 appear to represent the same person because: same person, Sandys is LNAB
posted on Sandys-97 (merged) by Vivienne Caldwell
Oliver Sandes-39 (mentioned in an earlier comment) was detached as son from this profile & Margaret Rawson-138. His profile says that his father was "William Sandes of Rotenby, St. Bees, Cumbria" (who is not this William Sandes-19).
posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
I defer to other profile managers. All I ask is that any changes be strongly supportable.
posted by David Mark Cordell
I have a Jane Sandys wife of Robert Wintershull who appears to be the granddaughter of William and Margaret, but how is not clear, either through William or Oliver. See discussion in gen-med

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/2014-07/1404656239 I can't see the pedigrees linked presumably due to the over-stringent copyright laws in Canada. can you find a home for my Jane?

Sandys-18 and Sandes-19 appear to represent the same person because: data align, alternate surname spelling can be shown in merged bio
posted by Sandy Culver
Sands-161 and Sandys-18 appear to represent the same person because: They're both the grandfather of the 4th earl of Westmoreland. Even though it doesn't look that way. Compare the trees.
posted by [Living Horace]
Sands-161 and Sandys-18 do not represent the same person because: years are off too far, daughter born year does not line up.
posted by Sandy Culver
Looks to be the same as Sandys-28 once parents are resolved
posted by Sandy Culver
Can't be the same, because children don't match up with dates.
posted by P J Evans

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