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Dulcia (Savage) Bold (1448 - 1480)

Dulcia Bold formerly Savage aka Bould
Born in Clifton, Runcorn, Cheshire, Englandmap
Ancestors ancestors
Daughter of [uncertain] and [uncertain]
Wife of — married 1465 in Bold, Prescot, Lancashire, Englandmap [uncertain]
Descendants descendants
Died at about age 32 in Bold, Prescot, Lancashire, Englandmap
Problems/Questions Profile manager: Bob Fields private message [send private message]
Profile last modified | Created 19 Oct 2010
This page has been accessed 7,992 times.

Contents

Biography

"He had been married in 1464 to Dulcia or Dowse, daughter of Sir John Savage (Dods. MSS. loc. cit. n. 98), but in 1497 the name of his widow was Ellen; ibid. n. 120, 121."[1]

Research

Name

According to Wiktionary, dulcia is a plural noun meaning sweet-cakes.[2] Dowse could have been from the Scottish for dove or pigeon.[3] Thus, it is possibly a diminutive in this context.

Parents

The Visitation of Lancaster shows Dulcia as wife of Henry Bold and labels her as "filia Johis Savage, armigeri."[4] This cites John Savage as an "armorbearer." This might mean esquire, knight in training, or knight, depending on the era in which it's used. Since, in other entries, the epithet "esq." is used, I assume that the term means knight in this context.

There is some uncertainty about which John Savage was her father. Her parents are currently shown as John Savage-199 and Katherine Stanley. Douglas Richardson said in a 2022 post that these uncertainties had caused him not to list Dulcie as a daughter of any John Savage in his books (Magna Carta Ancestry and Royal Ancestry), but that subsequent research now led him to propose that Dulcie's parents were John Savage-23, father of John Savage-199, and Eleanor Brereton. As Brad Verity pointed out in a response, this is a possibility but not a certainty, and it remains possible that her parents were John Savage-199 and Katherine Stanley. For full discussion, see the conversation in soc.genealogy.medieval.

Sources

  1. 'Townships: Bold', in A History of the County of Lancaster: Volume 3, ed. William Farrer and J Brownbill (London, 1907), pp. 402-409. British History Online http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/lancs/vol3/pp402-409 [accessed 3 June 2018]. (http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/lancs/vol3/pp402-409#fnn49)
  2. (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dulcia)
  3. Probably a corruption of the Gaelic, Dhu, i.e. black; but don or doo, the Scottish for dove or pigeon, may be the origin. Dow, without prefix, is found in H.R. It also appears to have been a personal name, and to have given rise to Dowson, Dowse, Dowsing, and Dowsett, and also to the local name Dowsby in Lincolnshire.— Patronymica Britannica, written: 1838-1860 by Mark Antony Lower. (http://forebears.io/surnames/dowse)
  4. William Dugdale, The Visitation of the County Palatine of Lancaster, Made in 1664-5, Chetham Society (1872), p 42.

See also:

  • Visitation of Lancashire 1664 (Part 1), Chetham Soc. 84 (1872), page 42, Bold of Bold.

Acknowledgements

This person was created on 19 October 2010 through the import of Ancestors of Lois Greene.ged. Created through the import of My Family Tree.ged on 27 February 2011. Savage-705 created through the import of Anderson Family Tree.ged on Jun 10, 2011 by Sheri Anderson.





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Comments: 7

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I have substantially edited (and simplified) the research notes to refer to a 2022 discussion in soc.genealogy.medieval. I have also removed a section of research notes which referred to birth dates of grandchildren as if they were children.
posted by Michael Cayley
Not completely proven beyond a doubt that Dulcia (Savage) Bold {Savage-107 profile} is daughter of John Savage and Katherine (Stanley) Savage. Gary Roberts says "yes" but Douglas Richardson's books do not mention her as a daughter.
posted by Lorraine (Sharp) Kish
The parentage is now well established, read my thread at https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/qWhfz5Eh5eE.
posted by Paulo Canedo
Savage-676 and Savage-107 do not represent the same person because: not enough sources to make decision
posted by Chris Hoult
Savage-676 and Savage-107 appear to represent the same person because: Posible merge
posted by Chris Hoult
The Farrer VCH reference is footnote 53 in the online version.

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/lancs/vol3/pp402-409#fnn53

posted by [Living Horace]
Dulcia was shown as daughter of John Savage IV & Elizabeth Eleanor Brererton (John IV was her son). The Find a Grave memorial for Dulcia had her as a daughter of Katherine Stanley. Based on birth years in WikiTree, Dulcia's 1448 birth year would make her a late baby for Elizabeth, so I changed her profile to show parents as John IV and Katherine Stanley. However, I don't have any proof of her parents.
posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett

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