Joan (Saye) de Valoines (abt. 1332 - 1378)

Born about 1332 in England [uncertain]

Ancestors

Wife of William (Fiennes) de Fiennes — married before 1356 in England [uncertain]

Wife of Stephen de Valence — married before 1370 in England [uncertain]

Descendants

Died 29 Jun 1378 at about age 46 in England [uncertain]

Problems/Questions Profile managers: Magna Carta Project WikiTree [send private message] and Doug Lockwood [send private message]

Magna Carta Surety Baron Descendant (see text). Join: Magna Carta Project Discuss: magna_carta

Joan de Say is in a trail badged by the Magna Carta Project to surety barons Geoffrey de Say and Richard de Clare (see text below).

Biography

Joan de Say was the daughter of Geoffrey de Say, Knt., 2nd Lord Say, and Maud de Beauchamp.^[1][2] Her date and place of birth are unknown and are estimated.

She married first, before 1356, to William de Fiennes (or Fenys, Fienles), Knt., second son and heir of Sir John de Fiennes and Maud de Monceaux.^[1] They had two sons:

• John^[1]
• William, Knt., born 1 August 1357, died 18 January 1401/2, married Elizabeth Batisford and had two sons.^[1]

Sir William died overseas on 2 December 1359. His widow, Joan, married second before 1370 to Stephen de Valoines (or Valence, Vaylaunce), Knt. By a previous marriage, Sir Stephen had a daughter, Joan, who married William Costede and Sir Thomas Fogge.^[1]

Joan died on 29 July 1378.^[1]

Research Notes

Step-daughter

Joan is not her daughter, but the daughter of her second husband's first wife.^[1] The profile was detached as a daughter of Saye-10.

Manor of Saye's Court

"Sir William Heron above mentioned possessed this manor in right of his wife, anno 19 Richard II. together with her, by the name of Elizabeth lady Saye, levied a fine of it, with all other their manors and lands in Kent, to the use of them and the heirs male of their bodies; remainder to her own right heirs. Four years after which she died, s. p. Upon which this manor came to Sir William Heron in her right, and he died possessed of it in the 6th year of king Henry IV. s. p. likewise, Sir John (fn. 13) son of his brother Sir John Heron, being his next heir, all which was found by inquisition taken here at Deptford, and that it was held in capite, and consisted of one capital messuage here and two hundred and twenty-five acres of land, and of rents of assize of free tenements seven pounds eight shillings and two leets, and it was likewise found by an inquisition, taken after her death, that she died, s. p. and that Sir William de Clinton, son of Idonea, sister of William de Saye last mentioned; Mary wife of Otho de Worthington, and daughter of Thomas de Aldon, by Elizabeth, another sister of the said William; and Maud, her sister; and Roger de Fiennes, [grand]son of William by Joane, another sister, who afterwards had Stephen de Valoines; were her heirs and next of kin. They most probably joined in the sale of it, for in the 3d year of Henry V. it was found, (fn. 14) that Sir John Philip and Alice his wife held the reversion of this manor, and that Sir William Philip was his brother and next heir."^[3]

Inquisition of Elizabeth de Say

Writ 18 Nov. 1404.

BUCKINGHAM. Inquisition. Buckingham 28 Feb 1405

"She held nothing in Buckinghamshire. She died on 8 July 1399. Her next heirs are William de Clynton, knight, son of William de Clynton, knight, son of John de Clynton, knight, and Idonea his wife, one aunt of Elizabeth; Mary wife of Otto de Worthyngton, and Maud her sister, daughters of Thomas de Alden, knight, and Elizabeth his wife, another aunt; and Roger Fyenles, son of William de Fyenles, knight, son of William de Fyenles and Joan his wife, her third aunt. Idonea, Elizabeth and Joan were sisters of William de Say, knight, father of Elizabeth. William de Clynton is aged 26 years and more, Mary 34 years and more, and Maud 28 years and more. Roger will be 20 on 14 Sept. next."^[4]

Sources

1. ↑ ^{1.0 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4 1.5 1.6} Douglas Richardson. Magna Carta Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 4 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham. 2nd edition. Salt Lake City, UT: the author, 2011, vol. III, pages 507-508, SAY 6, Joan de Say.
2. ↑ Douglas Richardson. Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 5 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham. Salt Lake City, UT: the author, 2013, vol. II, page 579, FIENNES 12.
3. ↑ Edward Hasted, "Parishes: Deptford," in The History and Topographical Survey of the County of Kent, vol. 1 (Canterbury: W Bristow, 1797). British History Online, accessed 12 Mar 2016, pages 340-371.
4. ↑ Institute of Historical Research, CIPM 18 - Part XI.

• Richardson, Douglas. Magna Carta Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 4 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham. 2nd edition. (Salt Lake City, UT: the author, 2011). See also WikiTree's source page for Magna Carta Ancestry.
• Richardson, Douglas. Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 5 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham. (Salt Lake City, UT: the author, 2013). See also WikiTree's source page for Royal Ancestry.

See also:

• Richardson, Royal Ancestry, (2013), vol. IV, pages 567-569.
• Cokayne, George Edward and Vicary Gibbs ed. Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Vol. III: Canonteign - Cutts, 2nd edition. (London, 1913). Online at Archive.org, [page 320]: CLINTON.

Acknowledgments

Click the Changes tab to see edits to this profile. Thank you to everyone who contributed to this profile.

Magna Carta Project

This profile was reviewed/approved for the Magna Carta Project by Thiessen-117 20:20, 7 March 2020 (UTC).

Joan (Saye) de Valoines is a descendant of Magna Carta Surety Barons Geoffrey de Say and Richard de Clare in badged trails to the following Gateway Ancestors:

• Dorothy Beresford: The trail to de Say was developed in July 2018 and badged 7 Mar 2020. The trail to de Clare was badged in 2015 and re-reviewed 7 Mar 2020. See the trails HERE.
• Essex Beville (MCA I:192-196 BEVILLE): trails were badged in November 2015 and can be viewed HERE.
• Thomas Lunsford (MCA III:84-85 LUNSFORD): trail to Say badged in Feb 2015. See trails HERE.

Joan (Saye) de Valoines also appears in unbadged trails (needing work) to the following Gateways:

• Kempe Gateways (Richard, Edward, Edmund and Matthew): trail not yet developed and can be viewed HERE.

See Base Camp for more information about Magna Carta trails. See the project's glossary for project-specific terms, such as a "badged trail".