John See

Born [date unknown] in Schoharie, Schoharie, New York, USA [uncertain]

Ancestors

Descendants

Died Mar 1756 in Augusta Co, VA

Problems/Questions Profile managers: Dee Christophel D'Errico [send private message] and Sara Patton [send private message]

Biography

Biography

Often referred to as John Bernhard/Bernet See incorrectly.

The following are research notes by Sara Patton:

John See appears to be the son of Johann Georg and Margaret See/Zeh, though there is no absolute evidence proving this relationship except geographic proximity. He is not mentioned in Margaret's 1757 will (probably because he had been killed by Indians a year earlier.) Based on documentation found in Virginia records, he lived near his parents and siblings in the South Branch Valley (today's Hardy or Grant counties in WV) before moving the Greenbrier area (today's WV) along with his brother Frederick and other neighbors from the South Branch ca 1751. He was killed by Indians 5 years later, probably along Reed Creek in WV. (see below) There are no records that give his birth date (or year), nor is there any evidence that he was married or had children though he may have. He is often mistakenly given the name of "John Bernet See" or "Johannes Bernhard Zeh", confusing him with other men of that name. See below.

DOCUMENTATION: 1751, 28 Aug: Motion of John Scot admin. for Alexd'r Scot, dec'd Peter Scholl and Frederick Sea security. Daniel Richardson, John Coningham, Joel Hornback and John SEA appraisers for Alexander Scot, dec'd. (Augusta Co. VA Order Bk 3:181) Note: John was appointed as one of the appraisers to his neighbor in the South Branch valley. To be appointed, all men had to be of legal age...ie 21 or older in 1751.)

1751, Oct 21: Survey'd for John See 250 acres of Land in Augusta Co lying on the West side of Green Brire River at a place called the Deep Spring (part of John Robinson 100,000 acres-Greenbrier Co. grant) on a ridge between said spring and Stamping Creek -- on Hill side at the head of the Buckeye Bottom [Augusta Co, VA Survey Records, Record Bk 2:279 1761-1764. Reel 107, VA State Library Microfilms] (shape of land survey is roughly square.)

This land was later called "John Day's place" on Little Levels on Stamping Crk adj John Poage, Jas Brindle, John McNeal. Land is located south or southwest of Mill Point, WV in today's Pocahontas Co. The area on the VA map is identified as "Little Levels".

According to published articles on early settlers in the Greenbrier by JM Mc Callister, Frederick, George, and John SEE and Felty and Matthias Yoakum were among the first settlers listed as having land surveys in what is now Greenbrier Co, WVA as follows:
1750 Nov 22: Felty Yoakum -480 acres west side of Muddy Creek
1751 Apr 22 Frederick See - 480 acres
1751 Apr 24 Matthias Yockham - 330 acres
1751 May 11 George See -360 acres adj. to Arch'd Clendinen
1751 Oct 21 John See - 250 acres at Deep Spring

I've been unable to locate any original land records with specific dates and acreages for these men except for John See. However, surveys for others frequently mention land adjacent to the Yoakums and Sees as early as 1750. Perhaps this is where McAllister got these names for his list (although he cites specific acres and dates!) Since the Yoakums and Sees are not on the survey lists, it may be that they had made tomahawk claims on the land prior to the surveys done for the Greenbrier Land Co. surveys. It should also be noted that not all people who made claims actually lived on the land or may have only lived there for a short time.

1751, May 3: Surveys for Robinson et. al. mentions Wm Wright, See and Clendening "near east corner of See's land (lying on waters of Greenbrier) . Augusta Co, VA Survey Records #2 (1761-1774) p. 273. Presumably this is brother George See who later sold this land. He remained in the South Branch Valley.

1751, May 2 : Surveyed for John Robinson 200 acres in Augusta "lying on west side of Greenbrier River adjacent to Michael See. Augusta Co, VA Survey Records #2 (1761-1774) p. 274 Presumably brother Michael who remained in the South Branch Valley.

Augusta Co Delinquents: Chalkley Vol 2:415. "1753-4-- Barned See, gone out of County" - no relation-see below.

1756, March : John See, Michael Motes, Patrick Smith killed, Moses Mann were listed on the "Register of those killed or captured by Indians between 1754-1758." The entry immediately before showed Robt Looney Jr. and a Dutchman killed at Reed Creek though no location is given for John, et. al. Since no other location is listed, it is assumed it was also Reed Creek, a branch of the New River. (Draper Mss 1QQ83 -A contemporary handwritten list entitled "A Register of the Persons Who have Been either Killed, Wounded or taken Prisoner by the Enemy, in Augusta county, as also such as have Made their Escape." The list includes numerous names of those killed or taken prisoner on the VA frontier from October 1754 to May of 1758. The published transcription of this list incorrectly transcribed John See's name as John LEE.

[Note: No Augusta County documentation on Patrick Smith or Michael Motes. However, estate of "Moses Mann, dec'd" was assigned to John Man, securities Adam Dickinson and John Dickinson on Aug 19 1756 in an entry immediately following the assignment of Frederick See as administrator of John See, dec'd.(below) Augusta Co Will Bk2:157-58. The Dickinsons acted as securities for both Frederick See and John Mann, indicating that they both lived in same general area of Jackson River-Cowpasture River in western Virginia.]

1756, Aug. 19: Frederick See appointed administrator of John See's estate after his death. Securities Adam Dickinson, John Dickinson, gent. L200 bond. - Augusta Co Will Bk 2:156-7

MORE ON JOHN'S DEATH
A contemporary document indicates that John See was killed by Indians in March 1756, probably on Reed Creek, a branch of the New River in Wythe Co, VA, just south of Rt. I81-11 and East of I-77. The date of John's death in March 1756 fits perfectly with the Aug. 19, 1756 appointment of Frederick See as administrator of John See - Augusta Co Will Book # 2 p. 156.

John's name was found in the William Preston Papers collected by Lyman Draper at the Wisconsin Historical Society (Draper Mss 1QQ83) on a contemporary handwritten list entitled "A Register of the Persons Who have Been either Killed, Wounded or taken Prisoner by the Enemy, in Augusta county, as also such as have Made their Escape." The list includes numerous names of those killed or taken prisoner on the VA frontier from October 1754 to May of 1758 and ranges geographically from the South Branch of the Potomac in the north to the Greenbrier area in the west and the Holston and New Rivers in the south. John is listed with several others killed at the same time including Michael Motes, Patrick Smith, and Moses Man. Since they are listed together, these men may have been part of a scouting or relief party or together in a defensive situation.

Draper Mss 1QQ83: The page is divided into columns and appears to be grouped chronologically as well as geographically: (see photo)

Date...No....Names.....Places Killed...Wounded...Prisonr...Escaped
1756
Feby

Rob Looney & a Dutchman....Reed Creek…….killed

March

John See ........................................killed

Micheal (sic) Motes.......................Do (ditto)

Patrick Smith.................................Do

Moses Man...........................................................Prisonr

Vallentine Harmen.....N. River.....killed

Jacob Harman & son....Do...........Do

Andw Moses.................Do............Do

The list does not give the author's name but it is commonly referred to as "Preston's Register". An article about this appears in the Virginia Magazine of History and Biography-1894, Vol 2: 397-404, written by Joseph Wadell. In the published form of the list, Waddell mistakenly transcribes the name as "John Lee". But in looking at the microfilm of the original, it is UNMISTAKENLY "See". It is an easy comparison of the L and S as the name preceding John's is "Looney", and 2 names after is "Smith". I sent a scan of the actual page to the See List when I discovered this document so that others could verify it was actually See and not Lee. All agreed that the other L's on the page were totally different from the capital S in John See's name. And the death date corresponds to the date his brother Frederick was assigned to be the administrator of his estate.

John's death occurred in the spring following Braddock's defeat and several Indian attacks on the Greenbrier, at Draper's Meadow, and other places the summer before. After the devastating attack on Henry Baughman's fort, located on the mouth of Wolf Creek on the Greenbrier, in September 1755, the Greenbrier valley was virtually abandoned. Indian attacks continued the following spring of 1756 in southwestern part of Augusta Co as well as in the South Branch valley where the remaining See brothers were living.

It appears that John, his brother, Frederick and brother-in-law, Felty Yoakum, were living with their families in the Greenbrier region (John at Little Levels, Frederick and Felty at Muddy Creek as listed in land records) in the early 1750s. By 1754, tension between the settlers and Indians had begun and two forts were ordered built along the Greenbrier. One fort, we know, was near Marlinton, only a few miles from John See on the Little Levels. The other location is uncertain, though we do know that Henry Baughman had a fort or at least a fortified structure at the junction of Wolf Creek and the Greenbrier (across from Alderson, WV today). In late summer of 1755, word of Indian attacks along the VA frontier, along with news of Braddock's defeat by French and Indian forces in PA, caused many families along Muddy Creek and the lower part of the Greenbrier to flee to Baughman's Fort nearby.

Due to its proximity to the Muddy Creek farms of the Sees and Yoakums, they may well have been "forted up" with other families in Baughman's fort -- a total of 59 men, women and children. When the attack finally came, in mid-September of 1755, it lasted four days. 12 were killed, 7 captured. Felty and Mathias Yoakum were later listed as witnesses to Baughman's death indicating they were definitely among the 59 people at the fort during the attack.

When Capt. John Lewis finally arrived with his relief force from Jackson River some 40 miles away, the Indians had been gone two days. On their arrival, they learned that eleven cabins had been burned and over 500 head of horses and cattle killed or driven off. Otis Rice's "History of Greenbrier Co" states that survivors fled to Ft. Dinwiddie located on the upper Jackson River, almost due east across the mountain range from John See's land on the Little Levels. Apparently the fort at nearby Marlinton had been abandoned as well.

Gov. Dinwiddie was very upset with the Greenbrier settlers who "have behav'd very ill in allow'g such scatter'd and few Indian's to rob and murder them...they have been seized with a Panick by leav'g their Plantat's and Crops which they might have protect'd if they had joined with Resolut'n." While we don't know if everyone left immediately that fall or just tried to "fort up", the evidence and most historians agree that after this attack, the Greenbrier Valley was abandoned for the next six years.

The following spring, Gov. Dinwiddie ordered a string of 22 forts to be built for the protection of the Virginia frontier. The decision to locate these forts on the eastern side of the crest of the Alleghenies -- from the South Branch Valley of the Potomac through the Jackson-Cowpasture valleys of the Upper James down to the Roanoke River, clearly eliminating the Greenbrier Valley from the zone of military protection, is further evidence that the Greenbrier had been evacuated.

Many of the Greenbrier families fled eastward across the mountains to the area known as the "Pastures"- the river valleys along the upper James River, including Jackson, Cowpasture, and Calfpasture. Here we find Frederick See and Felty Yoakum as members of Andrew Lockridge's militia company in the fall of 1756. And the four men who were killed on Reed Creek—John Sea, Patrick Smith, Michael Motz/Motes, and Moses Mann – also appear to have been residents of this area.

The Manns lived on or around Jackson River. Fort Breckinridge was originally called Ft. Mann and was no doubt the home site of the Mann family. This was about a day's ride from John See's land on Little Levels. I have not been able to determine exactly where Patrick Smith or Michael Motz lived BUT I have found Patrick Smith and John "Lee" listed TOGETHER in various abstracts of militia or regimental units along with others from Augusta Co in the French and Indian War, including the battle of Fort Necessity where George Washington was defeated in 1754. Because I have not seen the original documents to determine whether or not the "Lee" is a "See", I have not pushed this theory any farther.

Coincidentally, Moses Man (who was listed as a prisoner on the Register) was dead by August 1756. Administration of his estate is listed in Augusta Co Will Bk 2:157-58 immediately following the entry appointing Frederick Sea as administrator of John See. John Dickinson and Adam Dickinson were securities for both Frederick See and John Man, administrator for Moses.

Again, Adam and John Dickenson, the sureties for Frederick See and John Man, also lived in the Upper James region-probably on the lower Cowpasture River where Fort Dickenson was built in 1756. And Andrew Lewis who stood surety for Frederick See, also had various land holdings in the James River-Jackson-Cowpasture valleys. Capt Lockridge, who charged Felty Yoakum and Frederick See with being absent from militia meetings in Sept of 1756, lived on the Calfpasture River (the valley east of the Cowpasture). This geographic proximity of these men strongly indicates that they and the four men who were killed on Reed Creek were living in the Upper James River valleys.

In February of 1756, Virginia troops under the same Major Andrew Lewis were ordered to take the offensive and strike the Shawnee in their own territory north of the Ohio River. We know that this expeditionary force was made up primarily of Augusta County men and traveled right through the Reed Creek area westward.

It certainly appears that John See, Patrick Smith, Moses Mann, and Michael Motz/Motes were on a military mission when they were killed. Since no women or children were named, they were probably out on patrol or going to the rescue of some family or fort, and they were far from home. Reed Creek, a branch of the New River, is located immediately south of today's Wytheville, VA running east and west. While this area was the edge of the frontier then (and now too!!), there were numerous settlements along Reed Creek, the New, and even the Holsten River which runs all the way into TN. Travel from the Greenbrier to the New and up it to Reed Creek would have been relatively easy since the mouth of the Greenbrier is on the New. There was much travel and communication between the western rivers and the settlements on the Roanoke and upper James and there was probably a major Indian trail along that route as it was the route the Shawnee followed when they took Mary Draper Ingles to their villages in Ohio in 1755.

Thus it seems highly possible that John See and his 3 buddies were either 1) trying to catch up with the main body of soldiers on the Sandy Creek expedition or 2) part of a militia group who stayed behind to guard the passes and follow war parties if captives were taken. Either way, they were caught and killed by the Indians on Reed Creek in March 1756.

Some claim the children in Margaret See's will in 1757 are John's children, but without supportive evidence.

THE CASE AGAINST JOHN BERNET SEE being part of this See family.
The name John Bernet See appears on many See family charts as the son of George and Margaret See/Zeh. And, in an effort to document this individual, many have gone to great (and almost comical lengths) to combine three different men into one.

1. The strongest case for John See being the son of Johann Georg and Margaret Zeh of the South Branch is the John See who appears in a number of Augusta Co, VA records on the South Branch and in the Greenbrier region between 1751 and 1756 where other members of the See/Zeh family also lived.

1751, 28 Aug: Motion of John Scot admin. for Alexd'r Scot, dec'd Peter Scholl and Frederick Sea security. Daniel Richardson, John Coningham, Joel Hornback and John SEA appraisers for Alexander Scot, dec'd. (Augusta Co. VA Order Bk 3:181) [Note: This is around the same time that "father" George Sea also died, with Frederick Sea as administrator and many of these same men as appraisers of his estate -- indicating they all lived in the same neighborhood.

1751, Oct 21: Survey'd for John See 250 acres of Land in Augusta Co lying on the West side of Green Brire River at a place called the Deep Spring (part of John Robinson 100,000 acres - Greenbrier Co. grant) on a ridge between said spring and Stamping Creek -- on Hill side at the head of the Buckeye Bottom [Augusta Co, VA Survey Records, Record Bk 2:279 1761-1764 . Reel 107, VA State Library Microfilms] This piece of land was later called "John Day's place", located on Little Levels on Stamping Crk adj John Poage, Jas Brindle, John McNeal. The parcel is located south or southwest of Mill Point, WV in today's Pocahontas Co.

It is interesting to note that a few months before this survey for John, his "brothers," Frederick, George and Michael See, and brother-in-law Felty Yoakum, and Matthias Yoakum also claimed land in the Greenbrier region.

1756, March: (During French & Indian War) "John See, Michael Motes, Patrick Smith (were) killed, Moses Mann (made) prisoner" (Draper Mss 1QQ83 -A contemporary handwritten list entitled "A Register of the Persons Who have Been either Killed, Wounded or taken Prisoner by the Enemy, in Augusta county, as also such as have Made their Escape." The list includes numerous names of those killed or taken prisoner on the VA frontier from October 1754 to May of 1758. Unfortunately the transcriber incorrectly transcribed John See's name as John LEE. (photocopy of original in file)

The entry immediately preceding the one for John See showed Robt Looney Jr. and a Dutchman killed at Reed Creek. Since no other location is listed, it is assumed it was also Reed Creek, a branch of the New River. Could they have been trying to catch up with the forces sent on the ill-fated Sandy Creek expedition against the Indians?

1756, Aug. 19: Frederick See appointed administrator of John See. Securities Adam Dickinson, John Dickinson, gent. L200 bond. - Augusta Co Will Bk 2:156-7. Another interesting note: The estate of "Moses Mann, dec'd" was assigned to John Mann, securities Adam Dickinson and John Dickinson on Aug 19 1756 in an entry immediately following assignment of Frederick See as administrator of John See, dec'd. Augusta Co Will Bk2:157-58. The Dickinsons acted as securities for both Frederick See and John Mann, indicating that they both lived in same general area around Jackson River-Cowpasture River in western Virginia.

That John was somehow associated with the family of George and Margaret Zeh of the South Branch is not in doubt as Frederick See administered the estates of both George (1751) and John (1756). John and George are also mentioned in several documents in the South Branch with many of the same men. But none of these documents state any relationships so it is hard to know if he is a brother, a son or nephew. Assuming he is the brother of Frederick, he must be a younger brother as Frederick was made the administrator of his father's estate while John was still alive and Frederick was also named the oldest son in his mother's will. But no documentation has thus far been found as to John's age, whether or not he was married and had children, or what may have happened to them after his death in 1756.

2. Then there are other See family charts and histories that claim a Johann Bernhard (Bernard, Bernet) See/Saye arriving on the ship Loyal Judith, on Nov. 25, 1740, give his age as 26 (b. 1714) was the son of George See. This claim, it seems to me, lacks even a modicum of common sense (but appears to be the source of the middle name in "John Bernet See."

If one accepts the preponderance of evidence that George See (John's father) is actually Johann Georg Zeh, son of Johannes and Magdalena Zeh, who arrived in America in 1710, it seems highly unlikely that a 26 year old arriving in 1740 would be the son of Johann Georg Zeh. Even without discussing George's age, one need only ask why George who arrived in America in 1710, would have returned to Germany to father a son born there in 1714, then left him behind to return to America and await his son's arrival in 1740. Of course there are still those Sees who believe that the patriarch of our See line is the fictional George Ludwig See and to them, I can only shake my head.

But for the fun of it, let’s just follow this Johann Bernhard See/Saye through his documented journey.

Johann Bernhard See- 25 Nov 1740; Philadelphia Co....(on) the ship "Loyal Judith" His age was given as 26, so he was born in 1714. On List A we find the name "Bernet Saye". On List B we find the name "Johann Bernhard See". On List C we find the name "Johann Bernhard See". Thus it appears that this Johann Bernhard See goes by the name Bernet/Bernard rather than John or Johann-- (we know that it was fairly common for Germans named Johann to go by the middle name which subsequent records will show.)

Five years later, the name Brenhardt See appears as the father of Johann Wilhelm See, who was baptized on 15 Jun 1745 at St. Michael's Lutheran Church in Germantown, PA. Germantown is in Philadelphia County; the mother's name is given as Susanna. A few years later, Anna Elisabeth See, daughter of Johann Bernhard and Susanna is listed as being born on 1 Feb 1753. Of course, there is no direct evidence that this Brenhardt is the same as Johann Bernhard but it seems highly likely.

Then in 1752 there is a land survey for a Barnard See in VA for 400 acres on Mill Creek in the area between Big Stony, Holman's and Smith's Creeks in Shenandoah Valley (NW of New Market)... among neighbors are not at all familiar and quite a distance from the South Branch Valley or the Greenbrier where "our" John See is then living. In 1753-54 Augusta Co, VA delinquent tax records, we find Barned See, "gone out of County."

Where did he go: the South Carolina Department of Archives and History Alphabetical Index shows: See, John Barnet memorial for 150 acres on eighteen mile branch, summarizing a chain of title to a grant to Casper Mantz of Sept. 4, 1753 dated 1759/08/28; and See, Barnett, Land Grant for 150 Acres on Saluda River dated 1769/10/31. Of course we do know that Martin See (unrelated) of Virginia also has a family and this could be one of his. But given "our" own John See (no middle name ever used in VA records) is firmly entrenched in the Greenbrier at this time, we know this is not John Bernet See.

It appears to me, that some See researchers have simply accepted anyone named See/Zeh or something similar as one of our See family without accepting that there may have been more than one See family who emigrated to America. Following the migrational patterns of settlement and working backward, it is much more likely that our See family members came to the South Branch Valley from Tulpehocken or the Esopus region of NY (the two largest groups of settlers in 1740-50 South Branch Valley) and before then the 1710 Palatines from Schoharie and before then the Hudson River settlements. And that fits exactly Johann Georg Zeh, arriving in 1710 with his parents, Johannes and Magdalena Zeh.

3. But let us not forget, the third John See who is also listed as a son of George See on some charts. This is Johannes Zeh, j.m. (young man) , who on March 3, 1738 married Catharine Bellinger both living at Huntersfield as cited in the Records of Dutch Reformed church at Schoharie, NY. According to Hank Jones who cites baptismal records in the Schoharie Lutheran Churchbook, this couple continued to have children in the Schoharie area as late as 1751 when we already know that another John See was claiming land in the Greenbrier region on the Virginia frontier.

Again, with documented evidence we know that Johann Georg Zeh left Schoharie for the Swatara-Tulpehocken area of PA between 1723 and 1725, (where he appears in the 1725/26 tax records.) Again, one must ask: if this Johannes Zeh(born at least by 1718) were the son of George, why would he stay behind in Schoharie after his parents left? Or why would he return to NY decades later to marry?

It seems clear to me that John See of the South Branch and later of Greenbrier is the only possible choice to be the son of George and Margaret Sea/Say/See of the South Branch. Nor is there any reason to give him a middle name, as his name in all the records in which he appears is listed only as "John See."

SOURCES:

Lyman Chalkley, Chronicles of the Scotch-Irish Settlement in Virginia, 1745-1800 , Extracted from the Original Court Records of Augusta County, Virginia, WB2, p. 156, Frederick See Date: Aug. 19, 1756 Location: Augusta County, Virginia Record ID: 36511 Description: Administrator Frederick See's Bond as administrator of John See.

Bond of Frederick See as Administrator of the Estate of John See, 19 Aug 1756, Augusta County Will Book 2, Page 156.

William Preston Papers collected by Lyman Draper at the Wisconsin Historical Society (Draper Mss 1QQ83) on a contemporary handwritten list entitled "A Register of the Persons Who have Been either Killed, Wounded or taken Prisoner by the Enemy, in Augusta county, as also such as have Made their Escape."

Joseph Waddell, “Indian Wars in Augusta County (VA), Virginia Magazine of History and Biography, Vol 2: 397-404 (1894) online at https://archive.org/details/jstor-4241848

Augusta Co. VA Order Bk 3:181

Augusta Co, VA Will Bk 2:156-58

LAND HOLDINGS: 21 Oct 1751, deed for 250 acres on west wide of Greenbrier River at Deep Spring, Hanging Creek (Augusta County Land Entry Book, 1745-1779, Book 2, Page 217).

Augusta Co, VA Survey Records, Record Bk 2:279 1761-1764. [Reel 107, VA State Library Microfilms]

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Sources

Sara Patton Research, sources cited within.

Acknowledgments

Thank you to John-David Rott for creating WikiTree profile See-392 through the import of Rott family tree.ged on Oct 30, 2013. Click to the Changes page for the details of edits by John-David and others.