Arrived in Australia on Phoebe Dunbar at Melbourne Victoria on 25 Dec 1854 after leaving Plymouth 5th Sept 1854. Her age on arrival 18 & from Tipperary engaged by Mr Madden for 3 years. December 24. - Phoebe Danbar, ship, 704 tons,
with two hundred and seventy Government immi grant passengers. H. G. Brock, M D, (R.N.), surgeon. Westgarth, Ross and Co., agents.
Burial records of Randwick Cemetery: http://www.randwick.nsw.gov.au/facilities-and-recreation/randwick-cemetery Roman Catholic section C, plot 159.
Death Notice in The Sydney Morning Herald, Wed 1st Dec 1915, page 12.
Mary's parents Michael & Ellen & daughter Ellen may have arrived in Australia in Nov 1854 on the "Clara"
Notes on Seymour surname in Ireland complements of Pascal Seymour.
The name is of Norman origin, and would have been introduced into Ireland sometime after the Norman invasion of 1169. One school of thought is that the Tipperary Seymours must have been Old English (Norman) on account of the fact that they were catholic and were not landowners (at least at the time of the Pender Census in 1659) and therefore would have arrived several hundred years before the main influx in the mid seventeenth century. But yet there is no documentary evidence of the name in Ireland that I am aware in the medieval period. The earliest reference I have seen to the name was in the late 16th century in Limerick which was much frequented by protestant settlers from England at the time. Manuscripts kept at Trinity College Library, Dublin indicate that Seymour had become a common name towards the close of the 17th century, whereas it didn't make the list at all in the previous century. The Hearth Money Records for County Tipperary 1665/67 however don't show a single house owner of that exact name, which might possibly indicate that they arrived sometime after that date. However in reading this list, it must be remembered that perhaps the majority of those who gave their names probably spoke only Irish, which accounts for many of the forms in which they are written as being unintelligible because the person entering the payments could not catch the sounds accurately so they were written phonetically. In the lists I have only found two names that sound remotely like Seymour, with one in Youghalarra and the other in Castletownarra. The one that sounds most convincing is in Youghalarra “ John Shemor de Palece” i.e. John Seymour of Pallas (near Newtown). The second one is perhaps less convincing “Willm Sumer” in Castletownarra. The lists are useful and interesting, but may not be that accurate as it is believed that many people may have evaded payment and escaped from the lists. Nevertheless it is a bit strange that the name Seymour starts popping up all over the place, especially in North Tipperary from the mid 1700s or so. Edward MacLysaght, who was the leading authority in his time on Irish names and family history states in his book “The Surnames of Ireland” that several families of this name came to Ireland from England in the mid seventeenth century. By the time of Griffith's Valuation of Ireland (1847-64) there were 160 Seymour households in the entire country with the highest number, 44, in County Tipperary. That would translate to maybe up to a couple of hundred Seymours living in Tipperary alone at that time. As to whether our Seymour ancestors arrived in Ireland in about the seventeenth century or several hundred years earlier it is very difficult to drawn a firm conclusion; there are pros and cons for both arguments.
MPS, December 2014
On 1 Jun 2017 Mike Anderson wrote:
There is some uncertainty about the details, however. Some documents record her as ‘Mary-Ann’, but others record her as ‘Mary’ Her date of birth also changes on different documents. Sometimes 1837 and sometimes 1841. (Given that the 1841 date only appears on some of her children’s birth records, it may be that she was just choosing to prune a few years off her age at that time!) All the records I have on her record the same place of birth though: Castletown, Co. Tipperary. Her father, Michael, is recorded as being born in Nenagh (in 1822), so all very local. Her mother, Ellen Doyle is a native of Co. Tipperary, but no more detail than that is recorded. Immigration records show her arriving in the colony of Victoria in 1854, with her parents and younger sister Ellen. The language notation for all the family notes they spoke Irish only, with no English.
The social context is worth noting here. Tipperary was particularly hard hit by the Great Famine (as I’m sure you’re aware), and then suffered significant upheaval again in the Young Irelanders rebellion of 1848. Those who hadn’t starved were caught up in endless police actions by the RIC. Habeas Corpus was suspended, and life became unbearable for many. A massive gold rush in Victoria in the early 1850s enticed large numbers of migrants, especially from Tipperary. Some rough but useful records on Tipperary migrants to Victoria can be found here: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~maddenps/TIPPEMVIC.htm
Mary’s marriage may be of interest too. She married William Sullivan Lynch in Ballarat (in the Victorian goldfields) in 1857. He was a native of Castleconnell, Co. Limerick. As I’m sure you know, that is only ~20km from Castletown. In multiple other parts of my family tree (unconnected to the Seymours), various Lynch ancestors from northeastern Limerick married folks from nearby parts of Tipperary. They migrated to Victoria separately, on different ships from different ports, but often ended up marrying people from just 20km or 30km from their hometown. It’s quite amazing how often it happened. For a while it was thought that this might just have been the effect of the language barrier - often they got married just a couple of years after arriving with no English ability, so it would not be surprising for them to marry within their own language group. However, at the time the Victorian goldlfields were booming and populated by around 30% Irish migrants, so the language alone doesn’t explain it. They seem to have actively sought out people from near their hometowns perhaps. Colin Lynch firstname.lastname@example.org
On 1 Jun 2017 Mike Anderson wrote:
Stephen is the earliest known Seymour of the Kilparteen line. Kilparteen is about 2 miles north of the village Portroe in North Tipperary, about 6 miles from the town of Nenagh.
In the parish of Castletownarra,where I grew up, and also in the adjoining parishes there were many people with the surname Seymour. There were three main lines of that family name: those that originated from Curragh, Lackamore and Kilparteen. As I have no knowledge of a direct connection between your aunt’s Seymour ancestors and my Kilparteen line I would hazard a guess that her ancestors might possibly have been from the Curragh line. I already know some people in Australia descended from that line and I know that there are a great many descendants in Australia from the Lackamore line. When I was growing up it was generally accepted that the Kilparteens and Lackamores were totally unrelated, but there was a vague notion that the Kilparteens and Curraghs were distantly related although I’ve never seen any documentation to support that. A few years ago I had a yDNA test done to see if it would put me in touch with others of the Seymour surname who shared a common ancestor. At first there were no matches but after a couple of years it came up with one match, a Francis Seymour, whose ancestor James Seymour emigrated from the parish of Youghalarra (adjoining Castletownarra) in the 1800s.to the USA. Unfortunately I’m still none the wiser how exactly we are related. Towards the end of last year Fr. Tom Seymour, who is a Lackamore Seymour, also did a yDNA test and it has come back as a match for me! The probability that we shared a common ancestor is given as 83.49% four generations ago. The more generations going back the higher the probability until twenty four generations back it is 100%. At that same level of testing the results for Francis Seymour and me are identical. I don't know from which “line” of Seymours Francis is descended but undoubtedly we share a common ancestor. I would very much like to find out when the Seymours first settled in Tipperary, where they came from and why and exactly how all the different Seymour families are related. I’m attaching a note I prepared some while ago on the Seymour surname in Ireland. I have been of the opinion for the last few years that all the Seymours in North Tipperary are descended from a common ancestor so if my hunch is correct then all the Seymours in Australia whose ancestors came from Tipperary are probably related too. DNA is the only way of proving or disproving this theory so the more men with the Seymour name who submit to DNA testing the better as the records in Ireland are generally so poor and I think we are unlikely to turn up very much more in that regard.
As regards the Seymours in Australia I have been aware for some time now that several families of that name had emigrated from North Tipperary in the 1800s. From the Kilparteen Seymour two of my grand-uncles, Patrick Martin and Matthew settled in Victoria in the Wangaratta area. Matthew never had children, but Patrick Martin did and I met some of his descendants when I was last in Australia in 2015. One of those I met in Melbourne was a Brian Seymour, who is now 91 and is a grandson of Patrick Martin and still has memory of him! I wonder if you have been aware that many Seymours from the parish of Castletown settled in Australia in the 1800s? Email from Pascal Seymour email@example.com
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