Ellen Smith
Privacy Level: Private with Public Biography and Family Tree (Yellow)

Ellen Smith

Honor Code Signatory
Signed 30 Apr 2014 | 110874 contributions | 11006 thank-yous

I am an active member of WikiTree. Here is my family tree and here are 10 generations of my direct ancestry. That ancestry is almost entirely in the northeastern United States (including some of the earliest settlers), and I mostly work in New England, New Netherland, New York, and Pennsylvania.

In WikiTree I currently serve as volunteer Project Leader for the New Netherland Settlers Project and United States Project, Project Co-Leader for the Palatine Migration Project, and Project Leader supporting the Massachusetts Project.

Ellen Smith
Born 1950s.
Ancestors ancestors
Sister of [private sister (1950s - unknown)]
[children unknown]
Profile manager: Ellen Smith private message [send private message]
Profile last modified | Created 27 Apr 2014 | Last significant change: 20 Apr 2021
01:27: Emma (McBeth) MacBeath M.Ed MSM added the Black Heritage Project Member badge for Ellen Smith. [Thank Emma for this | 1 thank-you received]
This page has been accessed 70,418 times.

Contents

Biography

Born, grew up, and still living (last time I looked!) in the United States of America.

Status of Ancestry Information

The table (table format at Space:Table of Known Ancestors) below summarizes the extent of the information on my ancestry that is included in Wikitree. For the ten generations previous to mine, it shows the number of possible ancestors, the number of these ancestors who are currently identified/documented included in WikiTree, and the percentage of the possible ancestors who are identified here. Cumulative (overall) totals are also provided. Generations 9 and 10 are not up to date.

"Identified" ancestors include some with unknown last names at birth. It also includes some questionable identifications and people that I have not researched.

ANCESTORS BY GENERATION OVERALL ANCESTORS (CUMULATIVE)
Gen. # Direct Relation to Self Dates of Birth Matches # # Identified in WikiTree % Identified in WikiTree Total # Total # Identified Total % Identified
1Parent1920ssiblings22100.0%22100.0%
2grandparent1890s1st Cousins44100.0%66100.0%
3great grandparent1850s to 1870s2nd Cousins88100.0%1414100.0%
42nd great grandparent1810s to 1850s3rd Cousins1616100.0%3030100.0%
53rd great grandparent1770s to 1820s4th Cousins3232100.0%6262100.0%
64th great grandparent1740s to 1790s5th Cousins645281.2%12611490.5%
75th great grandparent1700s to 1760s6th Cousins1288969.5%25420379.9%
86th great grandparent1670s to 1740s7th Cousins256141*55.1%51034467.5%
97th great grandparent1650s to 1700s8th Cousins512250*48.8%102259458.1%
108th great grandparent1590s to 1670s9th Cousins1024401*39.2%204698147.9%

*There are several duplicates (people who appear on multiple branches of the tree) in these generations (see "Endogamy" section below for a list). These people are counted more than once in the numbers for both possible ancestors and identified ancestors. Cumulative numbers of distinct individuals in my WikiTree-documented ancestry are: 343 at generation 8, 570 at generation 9, and 934 at generation 10.

Presidential Relatives

See this page.

Endogamy

Autosomal DNA matching with me may be complicated by the number of ancestors who are represented in my lineage more than once. These distant ancestors' DNA may be somewhat amplified in my DNA. Also, if the same ancestor appears on different branches of my family tree, that may reduce the chance of triangulating a particular DNA segment to a particular common ancestor.

Identified ancestors appearing in multiple lines of my ancestry include (this list is not yet complete):

Generation 8

Maternal
Paternal

Generation 9

Maternal
Paternal

Generation 10

Maternal
Paternal

Notes

  1. 1.0 1.1 1.2 1.3 Occurs once in Generation 8 and once in Generation 9
  2. 2.0 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4 2.5 2.6 2.7 Occurs once in Generation 9 and once in Generation 10

Notes on DNA Matches

See my Notes on DNA Matches page for information on DNA confirmation of maternal and paternal relationships.


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DNA Connections
It may be possible to confirm family relationships by comparing test results with Ellen or other carriers of her ancestors' mitochondrial DNA. Mitochondrial DNA test-takers in the direct maternal line:
  • Ellen Smith: Mitochondrial DNA Test Other, haplogroup H1e
It is likely that these autosomal DNA test-takers will share some percentage (beta) of DNA with Ellen:
  • 100.00% X DNA 100.00% Ellen Smith: 23andMe, GEDmatch M162952 [compare] + Autosomal DNA Test, GEDmatch EP9026105 [compare]

Have you taken a DNA test? If so, login to add it. If not, see our friends at Ancestry DNA.

Comments: 582

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I do not think the description "ficticious" should be used if you have not disproved a person such as Lysette Aktok. I have oral history in my family of her both from the United States and ancestors in the Netherlands. Although I do wish people would quit using Lysette for her name as this is incorrect. She was not only Mohawk but also of the Montaukett Tribe. Just as I have oral history of ancestors from the Mayflower passed down (which originally when I was young I thought was a joke) but found out later that is absolutely was not-- neither is this woman who married Peter Van Woggelum. He is not fictious and his ties with the fur trade are not fictious. His wife who was indigenous is not fictious either. If you state someone is fictious than I feel you should present the person who you feel is reality. Thankyou. Noreen Kruzich
posted by Noreen Kruzich
I am sorry that my words offended you, Noreen. The problem I have with your received oral history is that it is contrary to the recorded history. Pieter van Woggelum was Dutch. There are records indicating that he and his widowed Dutch mother (who remarried in 1652) both appeared (apparently new arrivals) in New Netherland in 1652, along with his children who also were born in the Netherlands, and presumably also his wife. The only documentary record of his wife is that (1) on 16 June 1697 she (the “widow Makelyk”) was listed as a head of a household in Schenectady, her household consisting of herself and one slave, and (2) on 17 May 1703 payment was made for use of the large (adult) pall for the burial in Albany of Lysbet Mackelyck, deceased.

I could only conclude that the profile of Lysette Aktok was created to represent the wife whom oral history said was the daughter of a Mohawk sachem or chief, and that the name Lysette was a mistaken copy of the name Lysbet (the woman who needed the shroud). It is clear that Pieter van Woggelum existed and had a wife, but I do think that the profiles created to represent his Native wife are essentially fiction.

I do not know what to make of the idea that this woman was a Montauk or Montaukett (from eastern Long Island), since eastern Long Island was English territory (not Dutch) and Pieter van Woggelum lived in the Albany-Schenectady area (Mohawk territory).

posted by Ellen Smith
It is a "colonial" way of thinking to believe genealogical research only consists of paperwork.  Oral history plays a huge part in First Nation stories of ancestors.  I am well aware of where Pieter Van Woggelum lived and well aware of Mohawk territory.  You don't think that a Mohawk could have taken a wife from the Montaukett and had the woman who would become the partner of Pieter VanWoggelum? In that line I have a first photo of a grandmother born in 1826. She doesn't hold any resemblance to her dutch heritage, but she does hold a resemblance of an indigenous heritage granted that is a few generations apart. The information that you hold does not tell us the heritage of this woman. And you cannot presume that the mother of his children came with him, don't you find it very strange that his wife is not mentioned, that in fact he comes with his mother? A distant relative of mine followed this line and actually went to Holland to meet with elderly people in this line who knew family stories handed down. They did speak of the fact that Pieter Van Woggelum did take an indigenous woman when he resided in New York. I know it seems amazing that history that far back could be handed down, but the history of my family told to me by my grandparents is astounding, it was handed down and handed down- no books were consulted, no paperwork was consulted yet today I find the trail... I do descend from William Bradford of the Mayflower and Plimoth Plantation as well as others at Plimoth and I do descend from Jamestown early settlers...and I do descend from Pieter Van Woggelum and his wife. All these stories amazingly told to me as a kid with no paperwork to consult...just grandma and grandpa sitting with me talking. Grandma even said we were related to Wayne Newton. Years later I find out indeed we are. Oral history is strong. Let's not be so quick to sweep it under the rug just because we do not have any paperwork. In fact, let's see if there is more oral history out there.
posted by Noreen Kruzich
Noreen, it seems that you have an issue with many of the underlying premises of WikiTree and modern genealogy. You initially posted on my page because you were offended by my use of the word fictitious in a merge proposal comment. That was a personal concern that was appropriately addressed here, but your larger issues should not be focused on me personally.

My recent edits were in response to the forum discussion at https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/1222512/merger-help-from-native-americans-project-pre-1600-profiles . I just happen to be the New Netherland project leader who handled some of the merge proposals that came out of that discussion. The forum (in general) and that discussion (in particular) would be a more appropriate place to present your opinions about oral tradition related to the Van Woggelum family.

The WikiTree Native Americans Project has found that many, many, Americans have family traditions of a Native American ancestor -- particularly Pocahontas -- that are unsupported by all known evidence, and in many cases can be proven wrong. Similarly, there are many family traditions of descent from European royalty that are demonstrably wrong, and there are many other traditions about ancestors of European origin that cannot be proven or disproven because the records have been lost (or perhaps have not been found yet). WikiTree profiles can discuss oral history traditions in the text, but we should not make connections between people unless they are supported by documented genealogy. The members of the Native Americans Project research various Native lineages, including those that are supported by documented evidence, those that are contrary to the evidence, and those whose validity cannot be determined from the known evidence.

posted by Ellen Smith
Ellen,

I tried to merge two profiles that are both project protected by the New Netherland Settlers Project. See below. Can you please complete the merge?

Delamater-172 is project protected. This means that it cannot be merged into any other profile. Profiles need to be merged into it instead. Click here to reverse the merge so that Delamater-153 is merged into Delamater-172.

Delamater-153 is project protected. This means that it cannot be merged into any other profile. Profiles need to be merged into it instead. Click here to reverse the merge so that Delamater-172 is merged into Delamater-153.

Thank you.

Karen

posted by Karen (Rollet) Lorenz
There are 4 profiles for her, with conflicting sets of parents. There is a decent chance that different women have been conflated. They were protected so they cannot be merged until research is done to find good sources and resolve the conflict.

I am typing this on my phone at the moment, so I have not investigated the current status of the profiles.

posted by Ellen Smith
This is one woman who has 4 profiles and 2 sets of parents. Although her profiles show very specific dates for her baptism and marriage, I have not found good sources for either date. There has been uncertainty and disputation about her parents (due in no small part to the lack of records). I think her life events might have been in the Reformed Dutch Church of Harlem, which has not extant records from before the first decade of the 1800s.

I made some notes about her at Delamater-153.

posted by Ellen Smith
Thank you, Ellen (Ellen Smith has proposed a merge between Alice Hinde (Proffit-123) and Alice Hinde (Proffit-122). Don't know how I managed to create two of her!

Bruce

posted by Bruce Laidlaw
I do not think this was anything you did wrong, Bruce. This sort of thing just happens sometimes. It may be a technical glitch.
posted by Ellen Smith
Hi Ellen,

I sent you an email about Maine Project. Just posting this here in case it didn’t make it to you. Thx. S Willson

posted by S (Hill) Willson
Ellen thank you for your assistance. I am trying to get assistance in becoming the Project Manager of the Westward Ho, sub-category group Cowboys and Cowgirls. I seem to be having difficulty finding the Coordinator and getting additional guidance?
Ellen, thank you for helping me get started with the New Netherland Settlers. As I learn, I look forward to contributing well and properly. Research first though! I still cannot find the specific child I am looking for; I can identify the siblings - the resource you suggested notes it is missing a year and a half of records due to the originals being missing. I am going to see if I can find her listed later in marriage and baptism records for her children or as a witness. Onward.

Sharman PS. Tried out the "Connections to me" for the first time after seeing someone below mention they are related to you and having recognized a few names listed in your generational lists above. Marinus van Aken and Pieternelle De Pre are both of our 8th great grandparents. Hello cousin! :)

posted by Sharman (Lutz) Rice
Hi, Sharman. I am frequently amazed by how easy it can be to find records for some of our earliest ancestors, but I have also learned that many records are missing. Some records are missing because of things like fires, but there are others that just aren't there. We can only guess why. One factor in New Netherland is that many baptisms, and probably also marriages, were conducted at the homes of the parties, which might be a significant distance from the church, by traveling domines. It is easy for me to imagine that when they returned to home base after several days on the road they might have failed to accurately record some of the ceremonies they conducted (but that is only a guess). Also, sometimes a recorded event turns up in an unexpected location (maybe most of the children were baptized in Kingston, except for one child whose record is in New York or Poughkeepsie).

Sometimes it seems like everybody who has significant New Netherland ancestry is related. That is not actually true, but since you and I both seem to have roots in Kingston and its environs, I guess I expected that we would be distant cousins. Glad to meet you, cousin!

posted by Ellen Smith
Ellen, what do you think of possible sources I left in comments?

Thanks for looking!

posted by Karen Lowe
I'm a profile manager with NNS on Strycker-34 but I still can't correct her marriage data in the "form." Flatbush Book 72 reads 11 Oct 1709.

https://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=Strycker-34&public=1

The link is already in notes - Image 18- https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/6961/images/42037_2421401696_0511-00180?clickref=1101ldzWkxpo&lang=en-US

posted by Beryl Meehan
You could not edit the data because both profiles were PPP and you were a profile manager for only one of them. PPP is not intended to restrict these kinds of data changes for marriages, and I am advised that this behavior is on a list of things to be fixed.
posted by Ellen Smith
Hi Ellen,

I'm curious to know why Arent Danielse (abt.1681-1756) is identified by his middle name rather than by his surname, Van Antwerpen? His father is identified by the surname, as are his children (my direct ancestors) but he is not. It seems to me that some consistency is in order here, and would curb some unnecessary confusion. BTW, how long does it take to find out if I've been accepted to the NNS group? Respectfully, Jim Sellers

posted by James Sellers
Names are something most of us are confused about when we dig into New Netherland genealogy. Danielse is not a middle name. It is a patronymic name -- a last name derived from his father's given name. WikiTree naming conventions call for us to identify people by the names they were actually known by, and Dutch people of his time seldom had modern-style surnames. Instead, they had patronymic last names. The New Netherland Project uses a strict interpretation of the naming convention, wherein we use the name(s) recorded for each individual person, rather than attempting to standardize among siblings. Other names that might be used in published genealogies and similar sources are recorded in Other Names data fields to aid in searching. Apparently we have not found any evidence that this man was ever called Van Antwerpen (or variant forms) in his lifetime, although his father does seem to have been recorded with that name.

I am way behind on awarding badges. Please consider yourself a member, even if you do not have a badge yet.

posted by Ellen Smith
Ellen, I'm thankful for your response and am also appreciative of your explanation in attempting to answer my question. That said, I find that explanation not totally satisfying. Firstly, I don't find the old Dutch naming conventions, or patronymics, confusing at all. In fact, when used as I suppose it was intended, it is very straightforward and reveals much more information than just the words.

I agree that Danielse is a patronymic name, but it certainly is not a last name, as you infer. Van Antwerpen is the surname or family name, if that's a better descriptor. Leaving it completely off of his name is foolishness, when we know it really should be there. In "A history of the Schenectady patent in the Dutch and English times : being contributions toward a history of the lower Mohawk Valley", our subject is quite clearly referred to as; Arent Danielse Van Antwerpen in it's narrative regarding the patent. Your last sentence regarding his father is the tell-all for me. He had surname... we should use it! I'm not a neophite nor am I simple.I would just like this group to use a little reason. Thank you kindly, I'm waiting anxiously for my badge! Respectfully, Jim

posted by James Sellers
Hi Ellen,

Thanking you yet again for all the work you do. If you know anyone in Wikitree Ad-Min maybe they could develop a 5x and 10x thank you button, it would be a lot easier. Thanks, Mark

posted by Mark Townsend
Ellen,

I like to join the Massachusetts state project. I just discovered this woman which added and her husband. Unfortunately, I only have birth date for her and found a marriage record. I added her husband to day but I only had the marriage. They both need more research. I started adding them to categories and placed stickers not sure if your Medford Massachusetts project would need to be alerted but thought I message you In case.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Watson-28870

Billie

Ellen,

Thank you for suggesting a merge on this profile! Judy

posted by Judy (Ward) Welna
Now the next step is yours, Judy.

In the merge proposal section at the bottom of the screen, where it says [compare] [merge] [match] [reject], if you click on [merge] you should be taken to a new screen where you can complete the merge. Because the other profile has no manager, your approval is all that is needed for the merge to be ready to go.  :-)

posted by Ellen Smith
I'm sorry my first reply ended up on your profile, Ellen...hopefully this one won't. Thank you for your steps for merging...I'll tend to this as soon as I get a chance.
posted by Judy (Ward) Welna
No worries. This is what the page is for.
posted by Ellen Smith
Hi ellen, I have stumbled upon your page in the quest to identify my lineage/ancestors. I have traced back perhaps incorrectly to a jan dirckszen born 1666 new netherlands as my first patrileneal ancestor born in America. I was wondering if might be able to assist me on my search
posted by Hooligan Smith
Hooligan, your first step should be to become a full member of WikiTree (currently you are guest) and start building your family tree info here. That way, other members can see where you are starting from and may be able to offer pointers.

The New Netherland Settlers Project has posted many resources on this website to help people who are researching New Netherlanders, and you can search WikiTree for the names of the people who you think might be ancestors, to see what information we have.

posted by Ellen Smith
Hi Ellen, you and I are 9th cousins. Theunis Corneliszen Swart is our common ancestor.
posted by Keith Cook
edited by Keith Cook
Ellen,

Thanks for sharing the find of "Old Gravestones of Dutchess County". I've already found a few entries of interest.

Jim Moore

posted by Jim Moore
edited by Jim Moore
Hi Ellen, Some new research has been posted recently on the John Ogden I profile

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Ogden-588. I was wondering if you could look at it and give your opinion? It seems solid. Does it merit incorporating it in the biography, and changing the Unknown Origins section? Or should it be a research note? So far no one else has offered an opinion. Thank you.

posted by Ellen Gustafson
The NYGBR article is a good source. I think that you and John Miller (and any other interested descendants) can and should work together on editing the biography section of the profile to reflect the content there. Heather Husted is the Project Coordinator for New Jersey; she should be an excellent resource for advice on the genealogy and on editing the profile.

More comments on the Ogden-588 profile.

posted by Ellen Smith
Thank you Ellen. I’m still going over the material, We will make the appropriate updates in the next few days.
posted by Ellen Gustafson
Are you ready for some sourcing? (Shameless ripoff of Monday Night Football theme song. Sorry, Hank) 2020 Source-a-Thon starts tomorrow. Let’s do the Bay State proud. Source on.
posted by Bob Keniston Jr.
Ellen,

The 2020 Source-a-Thon is taking registration now at this [1]. The S-a-T will take place from 8 AM EDT Friday, October 2 to 8 AM EDT Monday, October 5. If you want to participate as a member of Team Massachusetts, go to the post and answer indicating the team name. You need to answer the question so Eowyn can officially add you to the Team. We did a good job last year. Let's see what we can do this time around. Don’t forget to visit our Chat Page. Bob

posted by Bob Keniston Jr.
Hi Ellen, could you open Elias Doughty ? It is protected. I found another child I’d like to add. He has sources. Thanks.
posted by Ellen Gustafson
edited by Ellen Gustafson
According to WikiTree, Ellen and Enrique Treat are 9th cousins once removed (Uncertain)

Ellen Smith and Enrique Treat (Gleason Gleeson) Gleason Esq. are both descendants of David Ackerman.

1. Ellen is the daughter of Catherine (Van Aken) Smith DNA confirmed 2. Catherine is the daughter of Homer Van Aken DNA confirmed 3. Homer is the son of John De Baun Van Aken (1863-1957) [confident] 4. De Baun is the son of Abigail (Lansing) Van Aken (1832-1907) [unknown confidence] 5. Abigail is the daughter of Alida (Groat) Lansing (1805-1866) [unknown confidence] 6. Alida is the daughter of Cornelis A. Groot (bef.1758-1850) [unknown confidence] 7. Cornelius is the son of Rachel de Graaf (bef.1730-) [unknown confidence] 8. Rachel is the daughter of Aeltje (Hennion) de Graaf (bef.1685-) [unknown confidence] 9. Aaltje is the daughter of Anneken Davids Ackerman (1642-1731) [unknown confidence] 10. Anneken Davids is the daughter of David Ackerman (1615-1663) [unknown confidence] This makes David the eighth great grandfather of Ellen.

1. Enrique Treat is the son of Fred Trent Gleason (1920-1998) DNA confirmed 2. Fred is the son of Frederick Treat Gleason (abt.1872-1934) DNA confirmed 3. Frederick is the son of Emma S. (Treat) Gleason (1853-1930) DNA confirmed 4. Emma is the daughter of Mary J. (Gardner) Treat (1824-1867) [confident] 5. Mary is the daughter of Levyntje (Francisco) Gardner (1795-abt.1876) [confident] 6. Levyntje is the daughter of Johannis T Francisco Jr (1771-1827) [unknown confidence] 7. Johannis is the son of John A. Francisco (1749-1832) [unknown confidence] 8. John is the son of Aaltje (Dormus) Francisco (1726-1771) [unknown confidence] 9. Aaltje is the daughter of Anneken Abramse Ackerman (1691-abt.1750) [uncertain] 10. Anneken Abramse is the daughter of Abraham David Ackerman (1659-1724) [confident] 11. Abraham David is the son of David Ackerman (1615-1663) [confident] This makes David the ninth great grandfather of Enrique Treat.

Hello, Ellen!

Thanks for all the work you accomplished during our Connect-A-Thon 2020. It is amazing how many more profiles were created and added to our Shared Tree over the weekend. We are proud of your efforts.

Kind regards,

Pippin Sheppard ~ WikiTree’s Appreciation Team

posted by Pip Sheppard
Hi Ellen, I put a New Netherlands Settlers box on Ralph Hunt’ Sr.’s profile (Hunt-163). The only pm hasn’t worked on it in a long time. I worked on the bio and sources last year. If you don’t think he qualifies please let me know.
posted by Ellen Gustafson
edited by Ellen Gustafson
Done! Hunt-163 now has the project account. Thanks for the note.

For future reference, in profile messages like this one, you can make a link to a profile by using double square brackets (same as in a biography).

posted by Ellen Smith
Hi Ellen, Thanks for the heads up about my privacy setting I had no idea, it should be good now. :) Also, great catch on the Robinson-4028 and Robinson-17973 duplicate and suggested merge, good eye!

Really appreciate you, Colleen

posted by Colleen Griffin
Glad you are no longer a mysterious ghost, Colleen.

I noticed those duplicates when I did a name search for some similar names (I think I was searching for Mar* Ro*), and then sorted the search results by birth date. I did not find what I was looking for, but I found those duplicate Robinsons!

posted by Ellen Smith
Hi Ellen,

I had answered the New Netherlands join question about 20 days back. What is the normal wait time on getting a badge?

Thx, Thom

posted by Thom Anderson
Hi Ellen

This fellow wants to join Colorado subproject of United States History. He wrote to me asking, and needs the US_history badge https://www.WikiTree.com/wiki/Stock-1325

Thanks in advance

posted by Mary Richardson
Thanks for fixing my profile this afternoon (Mosher). I started doing the bullet list but when I did a page for the profiles needed they put it to no bullets lol Not the one you fixed lol

Have a happy Monday:)

Hi, Alice. It looks like you have gotten confused about the format for a Sources list.

The standard format for a Sources list starts out with the tag <references />. That does look like it might be a hidden instruction to guide editing, but in fact it is a mandatory element that should not be removed. That tag generates a list of numbered footnotes when the profile is formatted to use footnotes (the preferred approach for citing sources, by the way).

Each item in the Sources list should be preceded by an asterisk (*) to create an indented bullet. When we create a new profile, the first item automatically gets preceded by an asterisk, but we have to enter the asterisks for the other items manually. Please don't use colons to create sources lists.

If I have failed to adequately explain a detail about formatting a Sources list, you can always look under the Edit tab on a properly formatted profile to see what the coding looks like.

Happy hunting!

posted by Ellen Smith
Hey Ellen,

The message we exchanged before didn't sit 100% well with me, so I thought I'd just check in a day later. First off, I wanted to make clear I do plan on G2G-ing whenever parents' profiles will need to be added. I think it is good to let everyone have a final say! Secondly, I really try to update the profiles of the people who lived in the early Dutch colonies now and then. I noticed that a lot of these -fairly often important (with regards to number of descendants)- profiles are not using primary sourcing, and can be hard to edit because you often need a bit of knowledge about Dutch history and culture too. Because of this, I decided to contribute every now and then :-).

Because I want to contribute, I wonder when you think a G2G is necessary, as our opinions seem to differ on what would require such a post. Personally, I think it is only needed whenever difficult source discussion is taking place, or different theories can be supported through all primary sources.

When primary sources show that more common attributions of parentage (mostly due to copying of trees on Ancestry etc.) are dead wrong I personally do not think it is necessary or ethical to keep the theory as a possibly accepted theory on WikiTree. In my opinion, it would be best to show that the theory exists and why it is wrong - disproving research should not require a G2G post.

I would love to know when you would want me to post to G2G and the logic behind posting such posts in those cases :-) I also wonder what you would change to https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Corszen-5 right now, to better be able to update profiles in the future!

Have a nice day / evening (Dutch time),

Willem

P.S. Thanks for your earlier notice anyway, as it did point me towards the fact that I should round of the conclusions a bit better instead of leaving them open.

posted by Willem Vermeulen
Thanks for your notes, Willem. I am not ignoring you -- I am very busy with non-WikiTree matters.
posted by Ellen Smith
Could you please complete the merge for Spicer-144. It is project protected.
Thanks for the note, Brenda. We will need to wait on this merger. The duplicate profiles for the grandmother and mother should be merged before we merge this pair of duplicates. (When doing merges of multi-generation series of duplicates, we need to start with the earliest generation first, then work forward in time. If we merge a child before the parent, the parent profile can end up as an unconnected "orphan" -- and sometimes we have had members refuse to complete a merge because they cannot see that the unconnected profile used to be connected to the same child and descendants as the other profile.)
posted by Ellen Smith
Hi Ellen, First I'd like to thank you for all the work you've done on a lot of different profiles. Secondly I must apologize for not responding sooner to your inquiry regarding dna gedcom. Initially I wasn't sure what you were asking or why would anyone be asking this. Since, I've tried and failed [more than once] to accomplish this task and the last time got some message telling I couldn't because of my old Mac. In a nutshell this is somewhat embarrassing to relate which almost explains the time lapse. Again sorry for the delay and many thank-yous for your assistance. Sincerely, Mark Townsend
posted by Mark Townsend
Hi, Mark.

You and I have a lot of ancestors in common. We map out as 5th cousins via a Townsend connection, but we are also 7th cousins, 8th cousins, etc., via other shared ancestors. I see that you tested on FTDNA, and I've posted my data there, so I looked for you on my report there. You aren't listed as a DNA match (that's not surprising, as there's a low chance of an autosomal match at 5 generations on a line where we would not have received X chromosome DNA).

I expect that I'll continue to see you around, cousin!

posted by Ellen Smith
The Subsistence List is the only record from the Palatine immigration. Jones writings on the Zeller immigrants does not match the subsistence records. He totally neglected that Johann Henrich had a child under 10 when he arrived.

Where and when did the two Zoller daughters of the Etcbach Zollers arrive and live in New York. One was 13 and the other 15.

And how about this for a coincidence: Jones writes the 15 year old daughter when she arrived in New York, had an illegitimate daughter with a Negro in New York. Then he writes that Johannes Schaeffer's wife also had an illegitimate child. These two are supposedly daughters of the Etzbach Zoller family.

How can you managers ignore the only documentation and believe the made up Jones info?

posted by Jim Baucom Jr.

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