Ellen Smith
Privacy Level: Private with Public Biography and Family Tree (Yellow)

Ellen Smith

Honor Code Signatory
Signed 30 Apr 2014 | 147,608 contributions | 15,187 thank-yous | 1,686 connections

I am an active member of WikiTree. Here are my family tree and the people in 10 generations of my direct ancestry. That ancestry is almost entirely in the northeastern United States (including some of the earliest settlers), and I mostly work in New England, New Netherland, New York, and Pennsylvania.

In WikiTree I currently serve as volunteer Project Leader for the New Netherland Project and United States Project, Project Leader supporting the Massachusetts Project, and a Reserve Leader for the Palatine Migration Project.

Ellen Smith
Born 1950s.
Ancestors ancestors
Sister of [private sister (1950s - unknown)]
[children unknown]
Problems/Questions Profile manager: Ellen Smith private message [send private message]
Profile last modified | Created 27 Apr 2014
This page has been accessed 80,903 times.



Born, grew up, and still living (last time I looked!) in the United States of America.

Ellen Smith achieved the 15 For 15 award for completing 15 missions in our 2023 15 For 15 Challenge.

Status of Ancestry Information

Not updated recently. I now have more identified ancestors than appear here.

The table (table format at Space:Table of Known Ancestors) below summarizes the extent of the information on my ancestry that is included in Wikitree. For the ten generations previous to mine, it shows the number of possible ancestors, the number of these ancestors who are currently identified/documented included in WikiTree, and the percentage of the possible ancestors who are identified here. Cumulative (overall) totals are also provided. Generations 9 and 10 are not up to date.

"Identified" ancestors include some with unknown last names at birth. It also includes some questionable identifications and people that I have not researched.

Gen. # Direct Relation to Self Dates of Birth Matches # # Identified in WikiTree % Identified in WikiTree Total # Total # Identified Total % Identified
2grandparent1890s1st Cousins44100.0%66100.0%
3great grandparent1850s to 1870s2nd Cousins88100.0%1414100.0%
42nd great grandparent1810s to 1850s3rd Cousins1616100.0%3030100.0%
53rd great grandparent1770s to 1820s4th Cousins3232100.0%6262100.0%
64th great grandparent1740s to 1790s5th Cousins645281.2%12611490.5%
75th great grandparent1700s to 1760s6th Cousins1288969.5%25420379.9%
86th great grandparent1670s to 1740s7th Cousins256141*55.1%51034467.5%
97th great grandparent1650s to 1700s8th Cousins512250*48.8%102259458.1%
108th great grandparent1590s to 1670s9th Cousins1024401*39.2%204698147.9%

*There are several duplicates (people who appear on multiple branches of the tree) in these generations (see "Endogamy" section below for a list). These people are counted more than once in the numbers for both possible ancestors and identified ancestors. Cumulative numbers of distinct individuals in my WikiTree-documented ancestry are: 343 at generation 8, 570 at generation 9, and 934 at generation 10.

Presidential Relatives

See this page.


See this page for my list of ancestors who appear more than once in my somewhat recent ancestry.

Notes on DNA Matches

See my Notes on DNA Matches page for information on DNA confirmation of maternal and paternal relationships.

Only the Trusted List can access the following:
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  • e-mail address
  • exact birthdate
  • birth location
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DNA Connections
It may be possible to confirm family relationships by comparing test results with Ellen or other carriers of her ancestors' mitochondrial DNA. Mitochondrial DNA test-takers in the direct maternal line:
  • Ellen Smith: Mitochondrial DNA Test Other, haplogroup H1e
It is likely that these autosomal DNA test-takers will share some percentage of DNA with Ellen:

Have you taken a DNA test? If so, login to add it. If not, see our friends at Ancestry DNA.

Comments: 664

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Very glad you are a New Netherland Project Manager ensuring that standards are adhered to. I also learn from reading your comments in the Google group feed
posted by Jane Embleton
edited by Jane Embleton
Thank you, Jane. Here's hoping that your genealogy work is going well.
posted by Ellen Smith
Your 26 Aug 2123 response re Pieter Staats’-18 wife and the Margery Freas issue is persuasive. I had not grasped how much weight a lack of evidence could carry, but you laid it out simply and clearly. Thank-you for that.
posted by John Smith
Thanks. At the moment, I think that WikiTree needs to treat the origins of Lysbet Aersen as "uncertain" or "disputed," but I am not inclined to disconnect her from the Middagh parents she is connected to. What are your thoughts on this?
posted by Ellen Smith
Like you, I would let it simmer awhile. I expect most would opt for accuracy over bragging rights, at least on Wikitree; but they will want to work through it themselves. It’s even possible, someone could turn up something altogether new. It will be fun to watch.
posted by John Smith
Thanks, Pierre. I am aware of that G2G, and I've been looking into the situation.
posted by Ellen Smith
Hello Ellen,

I'm reaching out to you for some help regarding the connection of Bartholf-45 as daughter to Bertholf-40 who ayk has PPP. I began posting comments on Giliaem's profile page about two months ago, have provided church baptism records to validate the source, but haven't received any response (pro or con) from anyone. I sincerely hope that the project is not holding any ill will or has any reservations regarding my capability to perform these simple tasks. Looking forward to hearing from you. Respectfully.

posted by James Sellers

Welcome back to Team Massachusetts. We’ve been doing this for some time now. Let’s have some fun this weekend making lots of connections. Bob

posted by Bob Keniston Jr.
Hi Ellen,

Thank you for the Family Star badge, much appreciated!

posted by P Whittington
Ellen, I would really appreciate if you could leave comments on any profile that I manage before editing them (including correcting urls or adding to sourcing.) It is just polite collaboration as Wikitree states. Thank You.
posted by Beryl Meehan
Hi Ellen,

I would like to know if you have specific projects for US Presidents, Signers of the US Constitution & Signers of the Declaration of Independence? Hal

posted by Hal Smith Sr.
WikiTree has a project for Presidents. See https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Project:US_Presidents for information and see https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:US_Presidents for links to the profiles for the presidents, plus links to categories for their family members.

At times in the past, there have been focused efforts to document "Founding Fathers" (category at https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:American_Founding_Fathers), including (but not limited to) signers of the Declaration and the Constitution. There are categories for both of these two groups of signers: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:Signers_of_the_United_States_Declaration_of_Independence and https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:Signers_of_the_United_States_Constitution

posted by Ellen Smith
Ellen, I have been trying to get a few merges done - the other pm is a Mike Stone. OK, so today he has put me on his trusted list BUT now what that doesn't allow me to open his profiles to get the merges done. I filled in the unresponsive pm form.

Peter Demorest (Demorest-12) and Privacy Level 60 Peter Demarest (DeMaree-73) https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Demorest-12 Mariete Meet (Meet-9) and Privacy Level 60 Maritie Demarest (Meet-1) https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Meet-9 Jacomina Demarest (Ruine-1) and Privacy Level 50 Jacomina De Ruine (De Ruine-15) https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/De_Ruine-15 Jean Des marets (Des marets-208) and Privacy Level 60 Jean de Maree (Des Marest-42) https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Des_marets-208

posted by Beryl Meehan
It appears that these merges had gone to default approval before you posted here, and subsequently you completed the merges. I'm puzzled as to why you thought the other profile manager needed to be involved in these merges, but I'm glad you got to do what you intended to do.
posted by Ellen Smith
I went thru the whole process of "unresponsive profile manager", got on his trusted list and then info@wikitree released profiles away from Mike Stone. I was then able to complete them.

I thought the one was PPP, it merged to an unusual lnab (Ruine-1) but that seems ok to nns.

posted by Beryl Meehan
Sorry, Beryl, but I do not understand. The profiles that Mike managed had Open privacy, they were not project-protected, and the merge proposals you made in December had gone to default approval. Any pre-1700-certified member should have been able to complete the merges. PPP on a merge-destination profile does not prevent a merge. Indeed, one of the main reasons for PPP is to ensure that merges go in the right direction, regardless of who does the merge.

Did you get an error message when you tried to complete these merges after they had gone to default approval? Why did you think that you needed to be on the trusted list, or that the profile manager needed to be removed, first?

When I saw your request for help with these merges, I thought you were asking me to expedite merges that had not gotten to 30-day default approval yet, and I did not see impatience on your part as creating an urgent need for me to respond.

posted by Ellen Smith
Those profiles created by Mike Stone were all locked. I got admin or info at Wikitree to open them.
posted by Beryl Meehan
Oh, dear me! That explains much! I had no idea that these profiles for people born more than three centuries ago had privacy protection. There is nothing in the profile history for the merged-away profiles to show the former privacy status, but now I see that there were no dates on the profiles (created in 2013, long before dates were required), so they were eligible to be private profiles. The profile manager has had only 2 edits since 2013, so he probably is a bit rusty about WikiTree policies and procedures, and didn't know how to help with this situation. Without his cooperation, only the Team could make it possible to merge.

I am very sorry that I didn't pay more attention, but as it happens there was nothing I could have done to fix your problem.

I've never seen the code "Privacy Level 60." What does it mean?

posted by Ellen Smith
edited by Ellen Smith
I used the Programmable Search Engine function and it says 60 is for Open Profile. BUT that must be because Admin removed Mike Stone from those profiles for me. I got an e-mail from admin confirming they had done so...
posted by Beryl Meehan
Phew! I'm glad you found these duplicates and glad they finally got merged. I hope neither of us ever sees this weird situation again!
posted by Ellen Smith
New on ancestry - New Jersey, U.S., Birth, Marriage and Death Records, 1711-1878 Published on Ancestry1/18/2023 -

2,348,606 new records - https://www.ancestry.com/search/collections/62483/

posted by Beryl Meehan
Wow -- that's a lot of records for folks to explore! Thanks for sharing the news.
posted by Ellen Smith
Good day, Ellen. I appreciate the help you provided re: Anna Eva Geiger (Gimpel?).

I did look at the original Latin record—it is a death record. “Resquiecant in pace” means rest in peace. But I must admit I couldn’t make out a lot of what it said as I couldn’t figure out the letters from the writing. Maybe Eva Geigerin was Lutheran? (Not too sure.)

posted by Anonymous Friess
Hi, Anonymous.

I am pretty sure that the word "obyt" at the end of the record also indicates death. The death record is unlikely to tell you her birth name (the question you asked), but it would be interesting to have it deciphered. It looks like it contains more information than merely a report of death. Also, I note that the record page is full of people named Geiger. The record three up from this one is for Joannes Valentian(?) Christopher Geiger, and the one two up from this one looks like may refer to a woman as "nee Geigerin" (just a guess on the "nee"!). The names Geiger and Geigerin also appear earlier on the page. By compiling bits of information about various Geigers in Leimersheim, you may be able to discover some more information about your own ancestors.

A genealogist with experience reading Latin church records from 18th century German churches probably would be able to explicate it for you, as the handwriting is reasonable legible. I suggest that you post a request in G2G requesting assistance with translating a German church record in Latin -- and include the URL https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJY-1ZVY in the text section of the G2G section to make it easy for others to find it quickly. :-)

posted by Ellen Smith
Hi Ellen,

I noticed that you deleted "British Colonial America" from Eby-492. I am pretty sure that The Province of Pennsylvania was located in British Colonial America. Is there a reason for this change?

posted by Bob Weaver
Wikitree policies call for us to use place names that existed at the time of the event, insofar as possible. "British Colonial America" is a modern term, not a place name that was recognized "back then." Thus, Wikitree does not use it in place name fields.
posted by Ellen Smith
edited by Ellen Smith
Wikitree policy is to use place names that were in use at the time of the event. "British Colonial America" may be useful now as a descriptor of a past situation, but it was not in contemporary use, so WikiTree does not record it as the historic place name.

The existence of a Wikipedia article about British America does not prove otherwise.

posted by Ellen Smith
Ellen, I left this note over on John Whitman b. 1709 and then realized you're not his profile manager. Could you take a look?

Ellen, Farnam on page 38 has John's father (and Dorothy's husband) as John born 22 June 1668, the son of John, and not John born 1658 the son of Thomas. What do you think? https://archive.org/details/historyofdescend00farn/page/38/mode/2up?q=%22Abigail+Hollis%22

posted by Karen Lowe
I created this other John b. 1668 to John Whitman and Abigail Hollis, but only attached birth records for now:


The Whitmans are in my connection path to Julius Miller this week, so I thought I'd take a look.

posted by Karen Lowe
edited by Karen Lowe
I added some Whitmans as part of an effort to add another WikiTree connection path for Julius Miller, who was a connection target in the week just ended. I do not have any deep knowledge of this family.

As with many 19th century genealogies, I found Farnam less reliable for early ancestors than for the people who were his contemporaries or their recent ancestors.

posted by Ellen Smith
I see that Farnam appears to have had a good bit of confidence in his version of the genealogy, and at https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=njp.32101067881399&view=1up&seq=340&skin=2021 Chamberlain agrees that John Jr. was the child of John born 1668. So I agree with you that John born 1658 should be disconnected from Dorothy Pratt (Chamberlain says he married Hannah Pratt) and the John born 1668 should be connected to Dorothy Pratt and her Whitman children, including John Whitman born 1709.

I was mostly using Farnam to help connect the modern family of Julius Miller's wife to colonial ancestors. After I found birth records for children of John and Abigail, plus a marriage record for John and Abigail, I identified John Whitman born 1709 as the John Whitman Jr. who married Abigail Hollis, so I created his profile. When I saw the existing profile for Whitman-338 connected as the husband of Dorothy Pratt Whitman, I connected John born 1709 to that couple as his parents and did not investigate the Whitman line any further.

Thanks for looking into this. You are correcting a long-existing error in the Whitman line. :-)

PS - My own connection to Julius Miller via the Whitman line was to Dorothy Pratt via my Pratt ancestry.

posted by Ellen Smith
edited by Ellen Smith
Oh, thanks! I swapped in the new John, so it will be interesting to see how that changes my connection to Julius Miller. I'll go add sources to the new John and see what I can learn for the older John and Hannah.
posted by Karen Lowe
Goodday, Ellen! Thank you for your work on Peter Ordway's profile. Since you are familiar with this family and are now working on it, i thought that you might help me with another member of the same family, to wit: Mary Wood Ordway. Similar to the case of the two Peter Ordways (who turned out to be one), i have here a woman Mary Wood Ordway, born 31 Oct 1653 to Isaiah Wood and Mercy Thompson, married to Edward Ordway. I am relatively sure that Isaiah and Mercy are Mary's parents. However, there is another profile for Mary Wood Fuller, born about 31 Oct 1653, also to Isaiah Wood and Mercy Thompson, but married to Joseph Fuller. This second Mary does not seem to have any sources for her birthdate and parentage. Moreover, the two Mary Woods were married to two different men at the same time and were having children in overlapping years. Which of the two Mary's is the true daughter of Isaiah Wood and Mercy Thompson: Mary Ordway or Mary Fuller? Perhaps you have insights or access to records that I donot. Thank you in advance, Albertus P.S. Mary (Wood) Fuller's profile has been recently orphaned: that should help matters.
Hi, Albertus. My work on Ordways was only an effort to find family for some unconnected Ordway people and help form some skeletal family trees that will help connect other profiles. I have no Ordway relations, but was surprised to find that WikiTree had rather few Ordway profiles, and that the profiles that existed were not better connected to family.

Regardless, I did a little bit of looking at your Mary Wood problem. Wood seems to have been a somewhat common name among early New England settlers, which makes it more difficult to pin down a specific Mary Wood. (I have some Woods in my ancestry, too.) I did not even find a record of any Mary Wood being born 31 Oct 1653. Dean Crawford Smith, who is a respected professional genealogist with much experience in this time and place, does quote that date -- see <https://archive.org/details/ancestryofsamuel00smit/page/90/mode/2up>. According to the NEHGR article about Isaiah Wood, there are no deed records for Isaiah, but Dean Crawford Smith cites several land records related to Edward and Mary (Wood) Ordway that show associations with other children of Isaiah Wood. I think his work is a good basis for accepting Mary Wood as probably the wife of Edward Ordway.

Furthermore, I saw that the marriage record for Joseph Fuller is a torn page that identifies the wife only as "M." And the book at https://play.google.com/books/reader?id=78tMAAAAMAAJ&hl=en&pg=GBS.PA177 shows Joseph Fuller and [presumably] Mary having ten children from 1690 to 1712, when a woman born in 1653 would have been age 37 to age 59 -- that is not consistent with female fertility in that age range. Thus, I think the case for connecting him to Mary Wood is weak.

posted by Ellen Smith
Hallo Ellen,

thank you for looking into the Mary Wood question. I appreciate your work and insights very much, and i especially appreciate the new sources that you have brought forward: Dean Crawford, and the torn marriage record for Joseph Fuller, of which i had no knowledge. I shall work these insights and sources into both Mary Wood Ordway's and Mary Wood Fuller's profiles. Again, thank you! Albertus. Postscriptum - 21 June 2021. See here the fruit of your help, Ellen: Mary Wood Ordway, Mary Hayward Fuller, formerly Mary Wood Fuller.

I do not think the description "ficticious" should be used if you have not disproved a person such as Lysette Aktok. I have oral history in my family of her both from the United States and ancestors in the Netherlands. Although I do wish people would quit using Lysette for her name as this is incorrect. She was not only Mohawk but also of the Montaukett Tribe. Just as I have oral history of ancestors from the Mayflower passed down (which originally when I was young I thought was a joke) but found out later that is absolutely was not-- neither is this woman who married Peter Van Woggelum. He is not fictious and his ties with the fur trade are not fictious. His wife who was indigenous is not fictious either. If you state someone is fictious than I feel you should present the person who you feel is reality. Thankyou. Noreen Kruzich
posted by Noreen Kruzich
I am sorry that my words offended you, Noreen. The problem I have with your received oral history is that it is contrary to the recorded history. Pieter van Woggelum was Dutch. There are records indicating that he and his widowed Dutch mother (who remarried in 1652) both appeared (apparently new arrivals) in New Netherland in 1652, along with his children who also were born in the Netherlands, and presumably also his wife. The only documentary record of his wife is that (1) on 16 June 1697 she (the “widow Makelyk”) was listed as a head of a household in Schenectady, her household consisting of herself and one slave, and (2) on 17 May 1703 payment was made for use of the large (adult) pall for the burial in Albany of Lysbet Mackelyck, deceased.

I could only conclude that the profile of Lysette Aktok was created to represent the wife whom oral history said was the daughter of a Mohawk sachem or chief, and that the name Lysette was a mistaken copy of the name Lysbet (the woman who needed the shroud). It is clear that Pieter van Woggelum existed and had a wife, but I do think that the profiles created to represent his Native wife are essentially fiction.

I do not know what to make of the idea that this woman was a Montauk or Montaukett (from eastern Long Island), since eastern Long Island was English territory (not Dutch) and Pieter van Woggelum lived in the Albany-Schenectady area (Mohawk territory).

posted by Ellen Smith
It is a "colonial" way of thinking to believe genealogical research only consists of paperwork.  Oral history plays a huge part in First Nation stories of ancestors.  I am well aware of where Pieter Van Woggelum lived and well aware of Mohawk territory.  You don't think that a Mohawk could have taken a wife from the Montaukett and had the woman who would become the partner of Pieter VanWoggelum? In that line I have a first photo of a grandmother born in 1826. She doesn't hold any resemblance to her dutch heritage, but she does hold a resemblance of an indigenous heritage granted that is a few generations apart. The information that you hold does not tell us the heritage of this woman. And you cannot presume that the mother of his children came with him, don't you find it very strange that his wife is not mentioned, that in fact he comes with his mother? A distant relative of mine followed this line and actually went to Holland to meet with elderly people in this line who knew family stories handed down. They did speak of the fact that Pieter Van Woggelum did take an indigenous woman when he resided in New York. I know it seems amazing that history that far back could be handed down, but the history of my family told to me by my grandparents is astounding, it was handed down and handed down- no books were consulted, no paperwork was consulted yet today I find the trail... I do descend from William Bradford of the Mayflower and Plimoth Plantation as well as others at Plimoth and I do descend from Jamestown early settlers...and I do descend from Pieter Van Woggelum and his wife. All these stories amazingly told to me as a kid with no paperwork to consult...just grandma and grandpa sitting with me talking. Grandma even said we were related to Wayne Newton. Years later I find out indeed we are. Oral history is strong. Let's not be so quick to sweep it under the rug just because we do not have any paperwork. In fact, let's see if there is more oral history out there.
posted by Noreen Kruzich
Noreen, it seems that you have an issue with many of the underlying premises of WikiTree and modern genealogy. You initially posted on my page because you were offended by my use of the word fictitious in a merge proposal comment. That was a personal concern that was appropriately addressed here, but your larger issues should not be focused on me personally.

My recent edits were in response to the forum discussion at https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/1222512/merger-help-from-native-americans-project-pre-1600-profiles . I just happen to be the New Netherland project leader who handled some of the merge proposals that came out of that discussion. The forum (in general) and that discussion (in particular) would be a more appropriate place to present your opinions about oral tradition related to the Van Woggelum family.

The WikiTree Native Americans Project has found that many, many, Americans have family traditions of a Native American ancestor -- particularly Pocahontas -- that are unsupported by all known evidence, and in many cases can be proven wrong. Similarly, there are many family traditions of descent from European royalty that are demonstrably wrong, and there are many other traditions about ancestors of European origin that cannot be proven or disproven because the records have been lost (or perhaps have not been found yet). WikiTree profiles can discuss oral history traditions in the text, but we should not make connections between people unless they are supported by documented genealogy. The members of the Native Americans Project research various Native lineages, including those that are supported by documented evidence, those that are contrary to the evidence, and those whose validity cannot be determined from the known evidence.

posted by Ellen Smith
Hi Ellen,

I sent you an email about Maine Project. Just posting this here in case it didn’t make it to you. Thx. S Willson

posted by S (Hill) Willson
Ellen thank you for your assistance. I am trying to get assistance in becoming the Project Manager of the Westward Ho, sub-category group Cowboys and Cowgirls. I seem to be having difficulty finding the Coordinator and getting additional guidance?
Ellen, thank you for helping me get started with the New Netherland Settlers. As I learn, I look forward to contributing well and properly. Research first though! I still cannot find the specific child I am looking for; I can identify the siblings - the resource you suggested notes it is missing a year and a half of records due to the originals being missing. I am going to see if I can find her listed later in marriage and baptism records for her children or as a witness. Onward.

Sharman PS. Tried out the "Connections to me" for the first time after seeing someone below mention they are related to you and having recognized a few names listed in your generational lists above. Marinus van Aken and Pieternelle De Pre are both of our 8th great grandparents. Hello cousin! :)

posted by Sharman (Lutz) Rice
Hi, Sharman. I am frequently amazed by how easy it can be to find records for some of our earliest ancestors, but I have also learned that many records are missing. Some records are missing because of things like fires, but there are others that just aren't there. We can only guess why. One factor in New Netherland is that many baptisms, and probably also marriages, were conducted at the homes of the parties, which might be a significant distance from the church, by traveling domines. It is easy for me to imagine that when they returned to home base after several days on the road they might have failed to accurately record some of the ceremonies they conducted (but that is only a guess). Also, sometimes a recorded event turns up in an unexpected location (maybe most of the children were baptized in Kingston, except for one child whose record is in New York or Poughkeepsie).

Sometimes it seems like everybody who has significant New Netherland ancestry is related. That is not actually true, but since you and I both seem to have roots in Kingston and its environs, I guess I expected that we would be distant cousins. Glad to meet you, cousin!

posted by Ellen Smith
Ellen, what do you think of possible sources I left in comments?

Thanks for looking!

posted by Karen Lowe
Hi Ellen,

I'm curious to know why Arent Danielse (abt.1681-1756) is identified by his middle name rather than by his surname, Van Antwerpen? His father is identified by the surname, as are his children (my direct ancestors) but he is not. It seems to me that some consistency is in order here, and would curb some unnecessary confusion. BTW, how long does it take to find out if I've been accepted to the NNS group? Respectfully, Jim Sellers

posted by James Sellers
Names are something most of us are confused about when we dig into New Netherland genealogy. Danielse is not a middle name. It is a patronymic name -- a last name derived from his father's given name. WikiTree naming conventions call for us to identify people by the names they were actually known by, and Dutch people of his time seldom had modern-style surnames. Instead, they had patronymic last names. The New Netherland Project uses a strict interpretation of the naming convention, wherein we use the name(s) recorded for each individual person, rather than attempting to standardize among siblings. Other names that might be used in published genealogies and similar sources are recorded in Other Names data fields to aid in searching. Apparently we have not found any evidence that this man was ever called Van Antwerpen (or variant forms) in his lifetime, although his father does seem to have been recorded with that name.

I am way behind on awarding badges. Please consider yourself a member, even if you do not have a badge yet.

posted by Ellen Smith
Ellen, I'm thankful for your response and am also appreciative of your explanation in attempting to answer my question. That said, I find that explanation not totally satisfying. Firstly, I don't find the old Dutch naming conventions, or patronymics, confusing at all. In fact, when used as I suppose it was intended, it is very straightforward and reveals much more information than just the words.

I agree that Danielse is a patronymic name, but it certainly is not a last name, as you infer. Van Antwerpen is the surname or family name, if that's a better descriptor. Leaving it completely off of his name is foolishness, when we know it really should be there. In "A history of the Schenectady patent in the Dutch and English times : being contributions toward a history of the lower Mohawk Valley", our subject is quite clearly referred to as; Arent Danielse Van Antwerpen in it's narrative regarding the patent. Your last sentence regarding his father is the tell-all for me. He had surname... we should use it! I'm not a neophite nor am I simple.I would just like this group to use a little reason. Thank you kindly, I'm waiting anxiously for my badge! Respectfully, Jim

posted by James Sellers
Hi Ellen, First I'd like to thank you for all the work you've done on a lot of different profiles. Secondly I must apologize for not responding sooner to your inquiry regarding dna gedcom. Initially I wasn't sure what you were asking or why would anyone be asking this. Since, I've tried and failed [more than once] to accomplish this task and the last time got some message telling I couldn't because of my old Mac. In a nutshell this is somewhat embarrassing to relate which almost explains the time lapse. Again sorry for the delay and many thank-yous for your assistance. Sincerely, Mark Townsend
posted by Mark Townsend
Hi, Mark.

You and I have a lot of ancestors in common. We map out as 5th cousins via a Townsend connection, but we are also 7th cousins, 8th cousins, etc., via other shared ancestors. I see that you tested on FTDNA, and I've posted my data there, so I looked for you on my report there. You aren't listed as a DNA match (that's not surprising, as there's a low chance of an autosomal match at 5 generations on a line where we would not have received X chromosome DNA).

I expect that I'll continue to see you around, cousin!

posted by Ellen Smith

Rejected matches ›