DNA Group for Smiths R-M269-9

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Surnames/tags: DNA Brunswick Greensville
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Copyright 2021 by Christopher Smith

Contents of this page, and all others associated to my work which are unique and of my own creation, are protected under the terms of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA).

Who I am

I make no claims of being an official spokesperson for FTDNA or the Smiths ALL project. I make no claims of being a FTDNA Project or SmithsWorldWide site admin.

I am Christopher Smith. I took my first DNA test in 2007. Since then, I have been attempting to chip away at how I am related to my yDNA matches.

I took a yDNA test at FTDNA and my distant cousins are part of the Smiths ALL R-M269-9 group. According to SmithsWorldWide.org, this arbitrary shorthand name was created "using the FTDNA shorthand haplogroup conventions." It was the ninth R-M269 group to be added to the Smiths ALL project. "The group numbering is simply sequential...". My use of this group name falls well under the provisions of the "Fair Use" clause of the DMCA.

Research pertaining to the Smith families which are a part of R-M269-9 can be found at https://smithgenealogy.wordpress.com

PLEASE do not copy or republish information pertaining to this Smith yDNA line and project without notifying me. This is to prevent mix ups.

Further, I have an additional research effort to help clarify some largely disseminated trees that have muddled the narratives of a number of families. You can find that research [here].


I wish to thank the group members who have spent many years, nay, decades researching their families and providing their findings to this effort. Additionally, I must also thank the myriad of volunteers who have spent their time over the decades transcribing quality source material into webpages for use with search engines. Without these folks who have published land deeds, will abstracts, and family histories, much of our work could not progress.


Please bear in mind that I am an amateur genetic genealogist and that this project is a work in progress. If you can find fault with any information I provide, please let me know and I will correct it as soon as I am able to.

If held to the highest of standards, a researcher would never declare anything definite. I do fall short of this standard in some areas, but have tried my best to provide accurate information. There's a lot to cover and there is room for editing of drafted notes in some places.

The goal of this project is to identify the common Smith ancestors of yDNA matched group R-M269-9.

If you're curious if you're a yDNA match to my group, simply check your FTDNA yDNA matches. The information from the "Y-DNA Matches" menu on your FTDNA Dashboard is sufficient to determine this information. No further comparisons are required.

If you haven't done yDNA testing, I will encourage you to do so at FamilyTreeDNA.com. In lieu of that, you can upload your autosomal DNA kits to the Morely yDNA Subclade Predictor. It's accurate from what I've tested against it. The provided haplogroup estimate is not sufficient for a conclusion of close relatedness to another Smith, but matching this way to someone who shares a Smith surname does make for a good candidate for more refined 67 level yDNA testing for comparison, and especially so if they are also an autosomal match.

12/12 marker yDNA matches and our haplogroup

I will also encourage you to read my [summary] of the significance of 12/12 yDNA matches and how to test if they are relevant to your research, within a genealogical timeframe.

Our Smith group is proven to be R-CTS2501 (aka but != R-DF41) a subgroup of R-DF13, R-L21, R-S461, R-P312, R-L151, R-PF6538, R-L52, R-L51, R-L23, R-M269

The Hypothesis

Our Smith group has a 12/12 yDNA match that provides a hypothesis of our Smith line's origins. No higher resolution yDNA test results are available for the person to whom we are matched.

Our Smith group is distantly matched to the Butler line of Hervey Walter de Clare Clare-681. A proven paper trail for my match from present day [has been established].

Based on this information, as well as some [autosomal research], our working hypothesis is that our Smith group is that of the Smiths of Rivenhall, Essex, England.

Based on a papertrail, yDNA matching, and autosomal DNA analysis, it is suggested that our Smiths lived near Brunswick and Greensville Cos, VA, and Northampton Co, NC, as well as Orange Co, NC. They are likely descended from [Thomas Smith of Blackmore, Essex and his relatives]. This has yet to be proven, however, since Thomas Smith's will no longer exists.

I believe it to be within the realm of possibility that my Smith line possesses [the 12 STR marker yDNA profile of The House of Normandy, specifically that of the Dukes of Normandy and William the Conqueror].

Summary of areas of research

To summarize the scope of this project's work, we have accumulated over 50 autosomal DNA kits for documented descendants of autosomally unique yDNA matched Smith populations in North America. The TMRCA for these yDNA matched Smith lines appears to be beyond 10 generations.

Many of these autosomal kits have been analyzed for both autosomal and pedigree triangulation.

Once candidate families have been identified from a matching segment search, traditional genealogical methods are used to research any possible connections.

Virginia Land Records

An initial effort to document land information can be found here.

I may attempt to map the Orange Co, NC land plats at some point, but I lack that capability for now. I have purchased a program that will do this, but I am still learning how to use it. For now, I will encourage you to purchase "The Land Grant Atlas of Old Orange County - Volume II - Saxapahaw Old Fields" by Mark Chilton. Fantastic book.

Earliest known Smith relatives

  • Nicholas Smith m. Polly Burke (Polly is said to have been born in Dublin, Ireland)

- Nicholas is found in the Orange and Caswell Co, NC records as "Nichols Smith". His family lived on Hogan's Creek. After a thorough paper trail analysis of the Posey Co, IN Smiths, Nicholas does not appear to be related to the Peter Smith of Round Hill.

  • Robert Smith of St. Matthew's Parish. His wife's maiden name is not proven.

Proven yDNA linked Smith families

  • Robert Smith Smith-155537 of St Mathew's Parish, Orange Co, NC
  • Andrew Smith Smith-199177 of Back Creek in Orange Co, NC link
  • Thomas Smith m. Catherine Jopling of Caswell Co, NC link
  • Stephen Smith Smith-98888 m. Nancy Rainwater of Blount Co, AL link
  • Isaac M. Smith Smith-3212 m. Matilda Rose Elliott of Washington Co, VA link
  • Andrew J. Smith m. Nancy Ingram of SC link link
  • Shadrack Smith m. Celia Smith of 1807 Wake Co, NC link
  • George Smith Smith-54592 m. Elizabeth Earls of Ashe Co, NC
  • Nicholas Smith Smith-232707 m. Polly Burke (son lived in Caswell Co, NC, moved to Meriwether Co, GA) link
  • William Smith m. Sarah Wells in Knox Co, KY
  • William Smith m. Sarah A Thurman
  • Mulkey L. Smith m. Sarah Caroline Bagwell of Greenville Co, SC
  • John S. Smith and Solomon M. Smith of Greenville Co, SC
  • Alexander Smith m. Amanda Stevens of Alabama

Autosomally linked Smith families

Josiah's family is heavily mixed up on the internet, largely due to incorrect works that were published in books using errant data. I must stress that if you find yourself examining information provided by Linda G. Cheek, you should be highly scrutinous of it. If the connections you are examining are not *crystal* clear, then double check twice.

The latest research I find links Josiah's ancestor, Nicholas Smith Smith-55153, to Capt. Stephen Smith of Blackmore Smith-39764.

Descendants of Stephen Smith Smith-98888 m. Nancy Rainwater autosomally triangulate on a segment of DNA on Cr9 with two descendants of siblings of the William Norwood Norwood-477 family.

Additionally, the above mentioned matches triangulate with another descendant of a sister of Susannah Smith Norwood, Lucy Smith Smith-5937 m. Joseph Howell.

Further, they autosomally triangulate with descendants of the Pulliam Pulliam-49/Patterson family that was related (by marriage) to the Myhill/Lockey family from which Josiah Smith's mother descended.

Speculated Smith relatives

Henry was from Fountains Creek, VA and lived near Capt. Andrew Jeter, an in-law of sorts to Cuthbert Smith, brother of Josiah Smith. While yDNA confirmation of his relatedness to our group has yet to be established, a possible, and admittedly loose, paper trail connection has been identified. We are actively looking for yDNA testers for Henry's line.

- we have recently begun re-evaluating the precision of our connection to Henry. The DNA information we have is more closely in proximity to the family of Elizabeth Smith Spurlock and Andrew Jackson Shelton.

- I have started another sub-project page to [research these families more indepth.]

Henry requested Col. Elisha Smith of Mt. Vernon, Rockcastle Co, KY to handle his RevWar pension file. This could have been a coincidence as Elisha was a statesman and militia officer (son of a KY Militia General) and it seems reasonable that RevWar vets would contact him about pension matters.

Both Henry Smith and William Spurlock lived in Knox Co, later Harlan Co, KY in 1810-1830 and are listed in the 1810 census next to each other, but the line separating them on paper may actually represent about 20 miles on a map. They lived on the same watercourse.

I want to research new information we have. It appears to possibly link a Jonathan Smith family to the area of Fort Christian in Brunswick Co, VA. Henry had brothers John and George and was from that area.

  • Elijah Smith m. Margaret Preston - married in Henry Co, VA

Elijah is found in the Rockcastle Co, KY census and land records and his sons moved, with Isaac Smith and family, to Salt Creek Township in Jackson Co, IN. Aquilla, Elijah's son, shared a fence line with Samuel Rice Smith. Aquilla is also recorded as saying he was born in James City, VA

  • Richard Smith of Meherrin Parish d. 27 March 1750

The connection to Richard is via his will and the presence of a Robert Smith in the Meherrin Parish records who sold land within two days of Robert Smith of St Mathew's Parish writing his will. This is still an ongoing research item.

  • James Smith m. Sarah Culbertson - Orange Co, NC

We're fairly certain that James was related to Thomas Smith m. Catherine Jopling, but yDNA hasn't been proven.

  • James Smith m. Lucy Harris - Orange Co, NC

Entrican Smith is found on the estate records as having his debts paid by James Smith in 1841. Entrican was a son of Polly Smith who is mentioned in William Smith's will d. 1821 Orange Co, NC, a son of Robert Smith of St Matthew's Parish.

  • William Smith [[1]] m. Elizabeth Singleton m2. Anne Burney Fish link link2

William and his family lived in the same immediate area as Isaac Smith and Nancy Hendricks and Elijah Smith was acquainted with them as well.

The heavy lifting

Here are some of the tasks that I think need to be done. I'll be working on them, and could use your help.

  • Researching wills of Fountains Creek, Red Oak Creek, and St Andrews Parish in Brunswick and Greensville Co, VA link
  • Disentangling Smith lines mixed up on SmithsWorldWide.org that pertain to these areas

- There are at least 4 yDNA groups on SWW that contain records for the same larger Smith family out of Brunswick, Surry, and Isle of Wight Co, VA. This project hopes to show *precisely* how to untangle this mess.

  • Documenting and disproving incorrectly linked families published online that pertain to these families

- Within the SWW application, I find that, as of 12/24/21 12:51PM ET, Groups R-M269-7, R-M269-32, and I-M223-1 all have yDNA conflicts for the family of Cuthbert Smith, son of William Smith and Ann Isham. I believe they are all incorrectly linked to this family.

Will you join me? Please post a comment here on this page, in G2G using the project tag, or send me a private message.

And remember folks, it's not aliens until it's aliens.


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I am excited about this new breakthrough, Chris! I am looking forward to digging through records online hunting for clues and pulling at threads to tease out the tangles. Thanks for so freely sharing all your hard work.
posted on FTDNA Group R-M269-9 (merged) by Pam (Bushong) Holzman
edited by Pam (Bushong) Holzman