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Differentiation of four pairs of siblings named Mary and John Down(e)s

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Date: [unknown] [unknown]
Location: Hampsthwaite, Yorkshire, Englandmap
Surnames/tags: Downs Downes
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Four sets of siblings called Mary and John Downs were born between 1799 and 1808, all cousins and are easily confused. This page sets out the evidence used to distinguish between them.

Note: although I believe the research is complete, I am yet to add all the relevant profiles and sources. I will update further as this is done. Note two: I may need to do a similar exercise with the Williams!

(Full inline references for ease of editing [1] [2]).

Contents

The Cousins

Alice (Moon) (1740 - 1818) and John Downes (1733 - 1793) had four sons, who each had children called Mary and John. All eight children were born between 1799 and 1808 and are very easy to confuse.

William m. Mary Pickard lived Menwith/Darley

  • William baptised 16 September 1804, Hampsthwaite (son of William & Mary Downs)
  • John baptised 20 April 1806, Hampsthwaite (son of William & Mary Downs, Darley)
  • Mary baptised 15 May 1808, Hampsthwaite (daughter of William & Mary Downs, Darley).

Stephen m. Ann Bradley, lived Hartwith

  • Mary baptised 13 May 1799, Hartwith (daughter of Ann & Stephen Downs, no further location)
  • John baptised 20 May 1804, Hartwith (son of Ann & Stephen Downs, no further location)

John m. Mary Beecroft, lived Menwith/Darley

  • Mary baptised 23 March 1799, Thornthwaite (daughter of Mary & John Down, Menwith)
  • John baptised 11 October 1801, Thornthwaite (son of Mary & John Downs, Menwith Hill)

George m Elizabeth Grange, lived Hartwith

  • Mary baptised 17 April 1800, Hartwith (daughter of Elizabeth and George Downs, no further location)
  • John baptised 11 March 1804, Hartwith (son of Elizabeth and George Downs, no further location)

For baptism records, please see relevant profiles.

Distinguishing the Johns

1. John, married Betty Bramley, 26 November 1827, agricultural labourer

John can be found in the 1841, 1851 and 1861 censuses with his wife Betty or Elizabeth and his son, William. He’s an agricultural labourer in all three with birth dates in 1803/1804 and place of birth given as both Darley and Hartwith. In the 1861 census, he has a “boarder” called Ann Downs, a widow of a farmer, aged 82, born in Hartwith[1]. In 1851, Ann can be found in the household of Bradley Grange, in Clint, near Ripley, acting as a housekeeper, listed as a widow, aged 73, born in Hartwith. Bradley Grange, aged 37, was born in Dacre Banks. There is a Bradley Grange, son of Jane and Matthew Grange, baptised at Pateley Bridge on 5 July 1813. There is a marriage of Matthew Grange to Jane Bradley on 14 October 1805 at Hartwith. It is therefore reasonable to presume that Ann Downs was the Ann Bradley who married Stephen Downes and that this John is the son of Ann Bradley and Stephen Downs.

2. John, unmarried, living with his sister, Mary, and her husband, James Simpson in Bewerley in 1861

John remains unmarried throughout his life and seems to move jobs and locations between censuses, settling on “brewer” but in all the censuses his birthplace is listed as Hartwith, as is Mary in the various censuses she is found in as the wife of James Simpson.

John’s age variously supports a birth year of 1803/1804. Mary’s supports a birth year of 1799/1800. These dates (and the Hartwith birthplace) fit with both Stephen and John’s children, but as Stephen’s John has already been identified, these must be the children of Elizabeth and George Downs.

3. John, married to Mary Kitson Mounsey in Guisley

John can be found in the 1851 census as head of household, farmer of 150 acres in West Carlton in Yeadon. His age is given as 51 and place of birth as Darley[2].

Within the household is a servant, Ellen Downs, unmarried, aged 24, born in Dacre Banks. On 7 February 1853, an Ellen Banks, b. c. 1827, marries Matthew Nelson at Ripon. The father of the bride is listed as Stephen and there is a witness named Emmanuel Downs. Emmanual can be found in the 1851 census living with his parents Stephen and Isabella Downs and there is an Ellen Downs baptised on 4 September 1825, daughter of Stephen and Isabella Downs suggesting that the two were siblings.

This Stephen Downs was listed in the 1851 census as being born in West End, Fewston in 1797, which makes him the son of Mary (Beecroft) and John Downs.

It is more likely that John hired his niece Ellen, rather than a cousin’s daughter Ellen, suggesting that John is the son of Mary (Beecroft) and John Downs.

4. John Downs died 18 March 1849, aged 43, from Darley

The age of death suggests a year of birth of 1805/1806. This doesn’t exactly fit with any of the John’s above, but is closest to John, son of William, and adds evidence to the other conclusions being correct.

Distinguishing the Marys

1. Mary, buried 28 March 1799, Hampsthwaite

Mary was buried as an infant, and only one Mary was baptised before this date, being Mary, daughter of Mary (Beecroft) and John.

2. Mary, married to James Simpson, born Hartwith

See analysis for her brother John above, suggesting she was the daughter of Elizabeth and George Downs

3. Mary married to Thomas/Tommy Skaife

There are two Mary’s remaining, Mary, daughter of William, b. c. 1808 in Darley and Mary, daughter of Stephen, b. c. 1799 in Hartwith. The ages and places of birth in the censuses following Mary’s marriage to Thomas Skaife clearly indicated the former, that this Mary is the daughter of Mary (Pickard) and William Downs.

NB: 1841 census has a Hannah Skaife residing with William and Mary adding further evidence.

4. The final Mary

The final Mary is Mary, daughter of Stephen b. c. 1799 in Hartwith and I can’t find any relevant records for her. She could have moved out of the area or died without a record.

Distinguishing the Williams

William, John and George also all had children called William. These are easier to distinguish, but nonetheless need care.

  • William, son of Mary (Beecroft) and John, was born in Timble, baptised at Fewstonon 14 September 1806. Sadly he died in March 1831 and his burial record identifies him as the son of John.
  • William, son of Mary (Pickard) and William, baptised on 16 September 1804 in Hampsthwaite, appears to have been living with his parents in the 1841 census, which means that
  • William, son of Elizabeth (Grange) and George, baptised at Hartwith on 7 March 1808, must have been the husband of Dinah Holmes, as they were living as a seperate household in Darley in 1851.

Of course, it is entirely possible that the William residing with Mary & William in 1841 was a nephew rather than a son......


STILL TO WRITE UP But William, son of John, died as a young man and his burial registered him as son of John. In 1841 census, Darley, from calverely.info, William, son of William was still living with his parents, meaning it must have been William son of George who married Dinah Holmes

Sources

  1. 1.0 1.1 Ann Downes, 1861 England and Wales census, Hartwith cum Winsley, Yorkshire, England, RD: Pateley Bridge, sub-RD: Dacre Banks, piece 3195, folio 48, head of household: John Downes, North Yorkshire County Record Office, image downloaded: 19 December 2023. Ancestry Sharing Link.
  2. 2.0 2.1 John Downs, 1851 England and Wales census, West Carlton, Leeds, West Yorkshire, England, RD: Otley, sub RD: Yeadon, piece 2285, folio 7, head of household: John Downs, The National Archives via Ancestry collection, image downloaded: 19 December 2023. {{Ancestry Sharing|8444469|7b22746f6b656e223a22756a2b426b5a586372746e6257455475766f4a306e315a5549344d6e37576f354c2b6a77724268316d384d3d222c22746f6b656e5f76657273696f6e223a225632227d.




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