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Military and War Sandbox

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Surname/tag: Military_and_War
Profile manager: Juha Soini private message [send private message]
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This is the place to host different small ongoing projects.
for the Military and War project with subprojects
If you have an idea of something that needs to be done and you can not do it by yourself, please add the task at the bottom of this page.


Project Protected Profiles PPP

We can, if your Military and War ancestor is controversial or duplicated, protect it from having LNAB or parents changed. Help PPP

  • Add the ID and name of the ancestor you want protected with an explanation of why the protection is needed like the example below.
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    • wikitreemilitarywar@googlegroups.com
    • wikitree-1776-project@googlegroups.com
    • wikitreegreatwar@googlegroups.com
    • Wikitreeuscivilwar@googlegroups.com
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=== [[WikiTree ID|Name]] ===
Explaining why this profile needs protection.

List of PPP needed:

World War II Free-Space Pages

There are several countries that do not have their pages written yet. Can you help? You do not need to know much about the country if you can do the research. There are literally thousands of online articles including Wikipedia and different history sites. Just remember that Wikitree takes copyright seriously, so use your own wording when writing. (No copy/paste)
Check out the completed pages for clues on how to make your contribution.
When you are done, please remove the country from the list below.

Animated photos

Animated photos like the one below are not allowed on project pages or in templates (project box/sticker). It is up to the members of the different projects to come up with an alternative. See How do you know if you have permission to upload a photo? When you have agreed upon some photo, please post a line below with the war in question and a link to the photo you would like to use.

Write your suggestion here: I believe we should leave the images just remove the animation.

Attack on Ft Cumberland in 1776

Identify the 200 or so people from New England and Nova Scotia that were in the attack on Ft. Cumberland in 1776. Could broaden this to the Machias privateers and the naval 'incidents' in the Gulf of Maine and Bay of Fundy.

What should the lowest category of military units be?

Do we use company, battalion, division or some other combat unit as the lowest recommended category? The stickers that create these categories have less than adequate instructions and the lowest category will be needed in the instructions I will rewrite. It can of course be different for each war as the combat units can not be compared in all instances. Please add what you would think is a good lowest category keeping in mind that there should not be more than 200-300 profiles on each category. Lower categories can of course be added later, but it would be a big task changing all stickers.

As I don't know much of the military hierarchy in your country, please add your proposal in edit mode to the lowest category for each of the wars you have knowledge of, then the next category above it and another above the latter.

Opinion of JWM: I think this is a hopeless question. In any given war, forces at all levels of the organizational hierarchy were reorganized and renamed constantly. If I were forced to pick one method for identifying the unit in which a person served, I would pick "regiment." A regiment is the traditional way of raising recruits. Also, military histories are often written at the regimental level. Typically, a regiment was comprised of persons recruited from a single town or county. With that said, regiments were often combined and renamed as casualties depleted their ranks.

Opinion of ADF: I don't entirely concur, but the matrix of military groups is sometimes complex and inconsistent from war to war or nation to nation and often size of conflict. Remember the life transition of a Brigade, Regiment or Battalion often precedes and outlives a War. The regiment is often associated with a specific unit - i.e. The Parachute Regiment (UK). The regiment is usually comprised of battalions - 1st Battalion Rhodesian Light Infantry... but in this regiment's case, there was only one battalion (so hardly ever referred to as a Regiment). These Battalions are 'allocated' to or fall under Operational Brigades, which are generally command structures. But a Regiment can, sometimes, move from one Brigade to another or have battalions split between a number of Brigades. Often a Brigade is associated with a geographic area, or campaign, but not always. It will get messy as a sub-category of a War. I would rather see categories evolving that normal people can actually allocate profiles to:

  • Named War"
    • Battles (this would have sub-categories naming the battles)
    • Campaigns or Operations (needs careful thought - could probably come under the Battles sub-category)
    • General Participants (this will identify regiments involved within the content of profiles. This could be reserved for Unit/Regiments - problem is that the unit or regiment outlives the War, so all soldiers associated with the regiment would be associated with a war in which they had not fought)
    • Killed in Action (this will identify regiments involved within the content of profiles)
    • Prominent Commanders (intended for profiles of Colonels and above?)

Opinion of ?: The above structure is already in place, except for the KIA which belongs to Roll of Honor Project and is already represented there. We initially had a category structure that started with the War and were instructed by the categorization project to remove all categories and go with the new structure. I personally prefer starting with the war first. This word be a major change needing the Categorization Project to approve and implement the actions.

Opinion of ADF: Firstly, I really think we need to stop worrying about the Categorisation Project. If we feel we have a need, then we debate it here in this Project and when we are done we move to Categorisation approval. Steven Harris actually encourages our expertise in setting up Category Structures for approval. Let stop this... it’s an impediment to improvement.
Would you kindly say where under Named Wars the above proposed structure are already in place. I do not believe they are or specifically Named Wars unique... I have researched it. What we need to perhaps establish is if there are Named Wars in some history section, and if the sub categories are present. If they are, then Named Wars are superfluous here. Those sub-categories are not duplicated because they are absolutely specific to the Named Wars. Rolls of Honor are Army/Airforce Specific.
We need to focus on what your common user needs from categorisation... If my ancient uncle fought in the Zulu Wars, which he did, then I want to slot him in... no more no less... eventual a list develops and becomes useful.

Thought of Ken Evans: not only does consideration of the lowest unit category differ from war to war and nation to nation, but from corps to corps. For instance, certainly in Australia, the lowest level for infantry may well be the battalion, but for artillery it would be the battery (equivalent to company). For non-combat corps such as medical, ordnance, transport, chaplains, etc, I'd suggest the corps could be the lowest level.

List of War categories (not necessarily) developed as a project. Category: Wars Richardson-7161 21:02, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Depending on country/time frame.... squad/platoon/company can change frequently for many reason, deaths, replacements, promotions, etc. battalions can be basic element of a regiment/brigade/division/corps for main forces of infantry/artillery/armor/etc depending on the type of regiment, i.e. 3 tank battalions make up a tank regiment, or, a tank battalion can be an integral part of an infantry division. other forces break down a tank unit by assigning a platoon/company/etc on an as needed basis for direct support, i.e. a US Marine Amphibious Unit, built around an Infantry Battalion, will have a tank platoon assigned to it for the duration of the deployment, then the tank platoon will return to its parent company.

  • Example war
    • platoon - company - battalion - regiment - division - corps - army group - region - war
  • French and Indian War
    • Regiment
  • American revolution (1776)
    • Regiment
  • War of 1812
    • Regiment
  • Creek War
    • Regiment
  • Mexican American War
    • Regiment
  • US Civil War
    • Regiment
  • Spanish-American War
    • Regiment
  • ANZACS (was going to be looked at to use normal military categories, i.e. Anzacs project focused on finding Australian and New Zealand profiles with service, but, they get added to a unit category, not a generic Anzac category)
    • Regiment

Thought of Ken Evans: ANZACs, not Anzacs, is a concern; and I am a member of the ANZACs Project. ANZACs is not a war and ought not sit here.

  • The Great War (WW I)
    • Regiment
  • World War II
    • Regiment
  • Korean War
    • Regiment
  • Vietnam War
    • Regiment / Brigade
  • War in Afghanistan
    • Regiment/Brigade
  • Iraq War
    • Regiment/Brigade
  • Rhodesian Bush War
    • Brigade/Battalion

Fact: the war category structure is already established - I see no reason to change the current structure which is already implemented. The Roll of Honor is a separate project and covers the Prisoners of War, Killed in Action, Missing in Action, Wounded in Action and those that died while serving to include receiving the highest Military Decoration. The Roll of Honor Project has an existing category structure and operates on Space pages with corresponding category structure in place and all is linked. There is no valid reason to change the current structure as it's very simplistic and easily navigated. The Roll oh Honir raises above nationality bias and operates above national partisan.

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I’m new and haven’t seen a lot of the previous discussions but if we focus on the U.S. side of things, Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, and Korea, and everything in between, are not wars. They lack a declaration of war. The opposing sides may consider that conflict war. How do we account for that difference in opinion?
posted by Straus Scantlin
Not sure where to put my response so I'm putting it here on the lowest category of military units...every time I have these categories figured out, somebody comes along and changes them, and I never did see that the last sweep of changes for US War categories was finished and I gave up on checking on them. I decided that once I finish a profile I'll ask for help because they keep changing and it's just too darn confusing. I've been avoiding the template that adds all that info because of the confusion.
posted by T Counce