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Name Fields Welsh Aristocrats

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Naming Guide for Welsh Royals and Aristocrats 742-1535

This is the naming guide for those included in the Cymru Welsh Royals and Aristocrats 742-1535 Project.

The Naming Standards for the Welsh are NOT the same as those for other European aristocrats. The major difference is the Last Name at Birth. Please read the guidance below.

If you have a question with regard to what to enter where, ask before doing so ... by posting a question on the G2G forum in Special Projects, and be sure to use the Cymru tag. Also should feel free to contact: Vic.

Last Name at Birth

Last Name At Birth SHOULD include the particle (ab, ap, or ferch) if appropriate
Unless otherwise decided, the LNAB will the the name used in FamilySearch's Welsh Medieval Database. If there are questions about the correct LNAB, please post a question on the G2G forum in Special Projects, using the Cymru tag.

Naming Guide

1.PREFIX FIELD:Use for title like 'Sir' or 'St'. (A man who was knighted was called Sir.) DO NOT USE for titles like 'Lord Rhys'. Don't put King, Duke, Earl here. Titles belong in the 'OTHER NICKNAMES' field. If person was a saint, use "St" or "Ste" with no punctuation.
2.PROPER FIRST NAME: This is first name at birth, in the person’s native language. It should be one word only.
3.PREFERRED NAME: This is the name of the person as they were generally known/called/referred to. It would also have a numeral (i.e. I, II, III) with it if they are known as the 1st, 2nd, 3rd. Example: Henry III of England - his proper first name is Henry, preferred name is Henry III.
4.OTHER NICKNAMES: This is where their title belongs (i.e. ‘King of England’, ‘Queen of Scots’, ‘Lord of Dunmow’, etc.). Titles do not include numbers (i.e. ‘Earl of Arundel’, not ‘3rd Earl of Arundel’). This is also where any actual nicknames (i.e. ‘The Younger’, ‘The Poor’, ‘Talvas’, ‘The Loyal’, ‘Copped Hat’, etc.) and translations such as Eléonore, Leonor, Eleanor belong. Do not put these in quotations. Separate multiple names with a comma.
5.MIDDLE NAME:Very few people in the middle ages had a middle name, so this field tends to be blank. However, this may be used for a patronymic, if this is not the LNAB.
6.LAST NAME AT BIRTH: This is the name they had (or would have been known by) when they were born. In most cases, it is usually one word, but it also includes the prefixes "ab", "ap" and "ferch", if one was used. Include only one patronymic name. Occasionally, a person will have two names and a prefix in the LNAB field, such as "ap Llowdden Hen." If there is a string of patronymic names, only add the first one in the LNAB. The others should be added in the Biography.
7.PREFIXES IN LAST NAME AT BIRTH FIELD (LNAB):The common prefix "ab", "ap" and "ferch" before a surname goes in the LNAB field, in lower case with a space between the prefix and the patronymic it also goes with the patronymic in the Current Last Name field. NOTE: This is different from the EuroAristo standard. FamilySearch has chosen to use the prefix 'ferch,' not 'verch' or 'merch.' "All three terms are used to signify “daughter of”. All are correct but are used in different time periods. Rather than trying to decide which is the correct spelling for each time period, we have chosen to use “ferch” as the patronymic naming convention for females." For consistency, we have chosen to follow the lead of FamilySearch. Therefore, use 'ferch' and not 'verch' or 'merch.'
8.CURRENT LAST NAME: For people who are known by last names that are commonly prefaced by prepositions ("ab," "ap," "ferch"), the Current Last Name should include that prefacing preposition. For nobility, the country, dukedom, etc., may also be used here, with a preposition, as, for example, 'of Powys.'
Women generally take their husband’s CLN, with "gwraig" in front. Example:
A woman who married a man named Hywel ap Trahaearn would have the CLN of "grwaig Hywel ap Trahaearn." The last name at death is the name used here.
For anyone who adopted a European or British name after birth, the EuroAristo naming standard should be used. (Use the appropriate Welsh name in the LNAB and the European or British name in the CLN.
9.OTHER LAST NAME: This should include alternate last names and last name variations, separated by commas. For the Welsh, this field is very important, as there have been many spellings for the same name. Prior married names for women occur here. This is not the place for titles (those go in the Nickname field).
10.SUFFIX: These were not generally used in the Middle Ages. Modern usage includes Jr, Sr, III, IV, and so on. For kings and queens the number should go as part of the Preferred First Name instead of in the Suffix. For example, VI is not an appropriate Suffix for King George VI.
11.PUNCTUATION: NO period after prefixes like Rev or Capt or St
12.NO leeway on prefix and suffix rules.These fields cannot be used for anything else.
13.SUFFIXES IN LAST NAME: Jr, Sr, III (modern), and KG or KB (medieval) in suffix field only. NOTHING else.
14.TITLES:No titles in prefix or suffix fields. You can list their primary one in the OTHER NICKNAMES field. List their titles in their biography.
OTHER NICKNAMES: Put what people were called (King of Powys in OTHER NICKNAMES field.
15.ALTERNATE SPELLING OF LAST NAME: Alternate spellings go in "Other Last Names"
16.NUMERALS: These are part of the preferred name (i.e. Richard III, Henry VIII).

Return to Cymru Project.


On 23 Mar 2017 at 18:03 GMT Michelle (Bairfield) Brooks wrote:

Family Search doesn't start using the ap in the LNAB until the 1400 Births - where a daughter might be Margaret Ap Owain - with her father being Ryan Ap Owain.

Same with http://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/i331.htm#s21271

On 23 Mar 2017 at 17:15 GMT Michelle (Bairfield) Brooks wrote:

Maybe I am the only one with this problem - using ap, ferch etc... in the LNAB is placing all the names in A and F in my Watchlist and muddling this group with the standardized LNAB.


It is enough of a task to decide upon the correct spelling for names in the Cymru category.

Adding the gender in the LNAB is making tasks more time consuming when scrolling (before the change in handling LNAB all children M/F/Unknown Gender could be located under the father's given name when looking through my Watchlist or searching for possible duplicates of other children/siblings) or on a profile that hasn't given a gender is offputting and discouraging.

At the point of smh and throwing my hands up. :/

On 27 Jun 2016 at 01:58 GMT Michelle (Bairfield) Brooks wrote:

In this - the chart doesn't show "ap" as being used in the LNAB


On 4 Jun 2016 at 02:35 GMT Maryann (Thompson) Hurt wrote:

Hey Vic

FamilySearch's Welsh Medieval Database no longer exists. What would be the best replacement for it?


On 18 Jan 2016 at 10:32 GMT Anita (Squires Mclean) Mclean wrote:

Thankyou Vic for sharing your knowledge, I'll atemp to follow this guide as much as possible whilst adding to and altering the information I have already entered.

Hopefully it helps someone else who also has a connection to my family heritage.

Thank you again, appreciated

Categories: Styles and Standards