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Price Genealogy - Ancestry of John the Immigrant

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John Price (abt.1586-1628)

This research page is for the ancestry of "John the Immigrant" and includes some information about related branches of the Price families of Wales. Members of the two main branches - descendants of Thomas and Meredith, sons of Rhys ap Dafydd Llwyd[1] - are often confused, as are those members of more distantly related branches.

For more information about John Price in America and his descendants, see their profiles and the research space page Price Family - Jamestown and Virginia Patriots. See John's profile for information about the 1610 indenture cited as source for his parentage as well as evidence that the John Price of Montgomery, Wales, son of Richard, is the same John Price found in the 1624/5 Jamestown Muster, age 40, having arrived in Virginia aboard the Starr. Details about his children are conflicting; see his wife Ann's profile for an overview, "Children", under Research Notes (see also the section on Children in the Biography).

Note - The Locations section below (which includes a Maps section) is a lot more detailed than originally intended, but it helps to place the various branches of Price families in Wales. ~ Noland-165, 6 February 2022

Contents

Lineage of John Price "the Immigrant"

John Price immigrated to Virginia aboard the Starr, arriving in May - probably in the year 1611.[2] He was the son of Richard Pryse of Glan Meheli,[3][4] who was the son of Richard ap John ap Meredith, gent.[5]

To give John's ancestry in the Welsh way ("ap" meaning "son of"), from information in the Visitations of Wales:

John ap Richard ap Richard ap John ap Meredith ap Rhys ap Dafydd Llwyd ap Dafydd ap Einion ap Howell ap Tudor ap Einion ap Ieva ap Grownwy ap Ivor ap Idnerth ap Cadwgan ap Elystan, etc.[6]
The estimated dates that work for the lineage of John of Virginia as portrayed in WikiTree (see their profiles for details and sources):
  1. John Price born about 1586
  2. Richard Price born about 1555/60
  3. Richard ap John ap Meredith born about 1530, living June 1586, when he testified (along with his oldest son Edward Price) in the Visitations of Wales[5]
  4. John ap Meredith born about 1500
  5. Meredith ap Rhys ap Dafydd Llwyd born about 1465-9
  6. Rhys ap Dafydd Llwlyd born about 1440 (died 1469[7])
  7. Dafydd Llwyd born about 1400 (died before 1469[8])
  8. Dafydd ab Einion born about 1375
Wives are named in the Visitations of Wales.[1][5] See also the tabular pedigree for descendants of "David Lloyd of Llanfair in Cedewaen, now called Newtown Hall" (through his grandsons Thomas and Meredith) at "Newtown Hall and Vaenor" in The History of the Princes,... and the Ancient... Lords of Arwystli, Cedewen, and Meirionydd (starting on page 374).[9]

Surname: Although it is said that from the time of Thomas and Meredith ap Rhys, the descendants of Rhys ap Dafydd Llwyd went by the surname based on his name (Pryse, Pryce, Price). However, John's grandfather Richard, grandson of Meredith, had apparently not adopted a surname by 1586. The report of his family and that of Edward, his oldest son, are "[t]estified by Richd Jno. Meredith and Edward Price".[10]

Welsh Names: The Visitations uses the English version of names; e.g., Meredith instead of the Welsh Maredudd (or its variant, Meredydd).[11] The Welsh alphabet is different than the English alphabet (e.g., it lacks "v"), so there are spelling differences also, such as "ferch" instead of the English "verch" for "daughter of", and Dafydd instead of David. The English "th" is "dd" (e.g., Meredith/Maredudd). Rhys has several spellings in the Visitations, including Rees and Rice. There's also Llwyd and Lloyd (Welsh has seven vowels, including w and y - see this chart). Oddly, most all sources give "John" (which is usually "Ieuan", often anglicized as Evan).[12]

Anchor Dates

1625: John Price was 40 in the 1624/5 Jamestown Muster;[2] the Jamestowne Society estimates his birth year as "about 1586".[13] The 1586 estimate seems to be confirmed by the Visitations of Wales: testimony in June 1586 by Richard Jno. Meredith, John's grandfather, names Richard among his children but does not mention any grandchildren other than those reported by his oldest son, Edward Price (Adam and Elizabeth, by his first wife).[5]

1610/11: John Price signed an indenture in 1610/11, in which he was described as "son and heir of Richard Pryce of Manavon, Montgomery"[14] The index of charters describes the indenture as "Manavon Lian, co. Montgom. Sale in, 1610. Add. 1036.[15]

1586: Richard ap John ap Meredith was the source of information for his family in the 1586 Visitation of Wales. His oldest son Edward Price reported two children by his first wife, and a second wife. Richard lists his children as Edward, James, John, Charles, Thomas, Richard, Margd and Mary. His son Edward Price testified that he had two children (Adam and Elizabeth) by his first wife Catherin and that his second wife was Mary, daughter of Robert Hughes.[5]

1485-1509: Henry Tudor, king from 22 August 1485 to 21 April 1509 (according to his profile); Meredith ap Rhys was "Esquire of the body to K. Henry 7th".

1461-1470: Edward York was king from 4 Mar 1461 to 3 October 1470 and from 11 Apr 1471 to 9 Apr 1483 (according to his profile); Rhys ap Dafydd Llwyd was "Esquire of the body of Edward the 4th".

Father of John

Price-172: Richard Price (1555-1638)
Richard Pryce of Glan Meheli,[3] son of Richard ap John ap Meredith, gent.,[5] was the father of John Price of Virginia.
Richard is father of John the immigrant because...
"John Pryce, was described as son and heir of Richard Pryce in an indenture in 1610-11 from Richard Pryce of Manavon, Montgomery County, Gentlemen, and Ursula Pryce, his wife to ___ Robinson. Thomas Pryce, brother of Richard Price II, was one of the witnesses. [Indenture, British Museum, A.D.D. Charter 1036, PC]. The signature on this indenture corresponds in every detail with the signature of John Price on the Petition to the King sent from Virginia in 1625-26 when John Price signed as a member of the Burgess. [Public Record Office, London, England, C.O. 1/3, 17276, PC]."[16]...
"This John Pryce was registered at the Shrewsbury School as John Pryce, gen. F. (i.e. 'son of a gentleman') 2 June 1600, two shillings sixpence. This was the entrance register. Two shillings sixpence were paid by those students not living in the town of Shrewsbury. Pupils generally entered at the age of fifteen or thereabouts. The three sons of Rev. Thomas [Pryce] of St. Chads entered in the following order: Daniel, Samson, John and each paid two pence because they were 'oppidans', (i.e. living in town). The John of this group, entering in 1603, therefore born about 1588 or 1589."[16]
See this 2004 SGM discussion (especially the posts by Paul K Davis) and this Rootsweb page (by Kay Haden). See also Google Books, page 511 in Vina Chandler Price's Ancestors and Descendants of John Price... (which shows a partial transcription of the indenture). The index of charters describes the indenture as "Manavon Lian, co. Montgom. Sale in, 1610. Add. 1036."[17]
SGM discussion includes the following points made by Paul K. Davis:[16]
  • The above cited indenture shows Richard, the father of immigrant John, to have had a brother named Thomas, and
  • the Visitation shows Richard ap John Price of Glan Meheli, to have had younger sons name Richard and Thomas. This Thomas is generally believed to be the one who was vicar of St. Chad's.
  • While there is another Price family of Manafon, that Richard has a wife not named Ursula, and his son John evidently raised a family in Britain, not Virginia.
  • Immigrant John was listed in the school records as son of a gentlemen, and the Glan Meheli family was such.
  • Manafon is a bit north of Glan Meheli, and both are in the sector of Montgomeryshire which borders the portion of Shropshire containing Shrewsbury.
  • I [PKD] conclude we must accept this match, and reject the Newtown claim with its possible Magna Carta connections.
Vina Price's 1988 Ancestor and Descendants of John Price says that the John who came to Virginia aboard the Starr is "of Breckonshire".[18] Research discussed in SGM concludes his father was of Glan Meheli, with ties to the Marafon Prices (not the Newtown Prices).[16]

Pending

Price-172: Richard Price (1555-1638), one of several duplicates, was developed to be the "target" profile to represent the father of John the immigrant. Still one duplicate to merge:

Different Richards

These WikiTree profiles are not the Richard (and family) of John the immigrant:
Also not the Richard who was father of John the immigrant:

Locations

"Trefaldwyn (Montgomery), Sir Drefaldwyn (Montgomeryshire), Cymru (Wales)"[19]
Between the Wye and the Severn
  • Powys Local History Encyclopedia, Rhwng Gwy a Hafren
  • "The numerous Price families of Montgomery and Radnor shires all traced their descent from the clan which had settled in the lands between Wye and Severn before the Normans came." ~ from the History of Parliament Online biography of James Price (born about 1572) of Monaughty or Mynachdy, Rad., son of John Price of Monaughty & Elizabeth, daughter of Sir Robert Whitney.
Montgomery/Montgomeryshire, Powys, Wales
"Glanmeheli in the parish of Kerry", Montgomeryshire, from the entry in the Powys Local History Encyclopedia for several Prices, including the following, for the uncle of John of Virginia.
  • Price, Edward (fl.1614): The son of Richard ap John ap Meredith of Glanmeheli in the parish of Kerry, a junior branch of the Price (or Pryce) family of Newtown. He served as a juror and was appointed a magistrate in 1610. He served as Sheriff of Montgomeryshire in 1614 with his son Adam Price as his deputy. [W.V. Lloyd - The Sheriffs of Montgomeryshire][20]
Today, a Google search for Glanmeheli, Kerry discovers "Glanmeheli Farm, Kerry, Newtown".
"David Lloyd of Llanfair in Cedewaen, now called Newtown Hall" in The History of the Princes,... and the Ancient... Lords of Arwystli, Cedewen, and Meirionydd (starting on page 374).[9]
Cedewain, Montgomeryshire from the elegy that Lewys Glyn Cothi wrote for Dafydd Llwyd ap Dafydd, "in which he represents death as having gone like a foe to Cedewain, and carried away in triumph from thence a rich treasure."[8]

Maps / Details

Montgomeryshire
Google Maps (Montgomeryshire -> Shrewsbury) [21]
Montgomeryshire, in Powys, stretches across Wales from its border with Shropshire, England to the coast (nearly)[22] - from Manafon to Mathafarn. The documents tying John the immigrant to John of Montgomeryshire are the Virginia petition signed by him in 1626[23] and the 1610 indenture, indexed as "Manavon Lian, co. Montgom."[17]
  • Powys, Wales; see Wikipedia's article on Montgomery Castle. Meredith ap Rhys ap Dafydd Llwyd was "Esq.r of the body to K. Henry the 7th ; and Steward of Kery, Kedewen, Arwystl, Kyveiliock, and High Constable of the Castle of Montgomery."[5]
  • Montgomeryshire, Wales; see Wikipedia's article on Montgomeryshire and also this map, which shows "Ceri" (Kerry) in Montgomery and "Cedewain/Newtown".
  • Shewsbury, Shropshire, England; see Wikipedia's article on Shropshire.
  • Breconshire, Wales is south of Montgomeryshire (separated by another county, Radnorshire); see a map of the area here. See also this map, which shows many of the Montgomeryshire locations mentioned as well as Tywyn and Brecon National Park.
Manafon / Mathaforn
  • Manafon/Manavon is fairly near the border of Montgomeryshire with Shropshire. The 1610 indenture that identifies John Pryse as son and heir of Richard Pryse is for the sale of land at "Manavon Lian".[17]
  • Mathafarn (see Wikipedia: Mathafarn) in the parish of Llanwrin, Montgomeryshire, is near the coast, about 30 miles west of Manafon. It was the home of the poet Dafydd Llwyd ap Llywelyn ap Gruffudd. This Dafydd Llwyd, born about 1420,[24] wrote a poem about the loss of Rhys ap Dafydd Llwyd ap Dafydd ab Einion following the Battle of Banbury.[7] The poet is one of five contemporary Dafydd Llwyds in Llanwrin who are the subject of an article by Darrell Wolcott; Rhys' father Dafydd Llwyd is not.[25]
    • Llanwrin; see Wikipedia's article on Machynlleth, which describes Llanwrin as "a small village in the valley of the Afon Dyfi in Powys about two miles north-east of Machynlleth."
    • A relative of the poet,[25] Rowland Pugh of Mathafarn, Llanwrin, Montgomeryshire, married Elizabeth, daughter of Sir Richard Price of Gogerddan, Cardiganshire[26] (a differnt branch of the Price family).
Llanfair PG / Llanfair
  • Llanfair PG is Llanfairpwllgwyngyll, found in Google Maps as "Llanfair-Mathafarn-Eithaf, United Kingdom". It is above Snowdonia National Park in northwest Wales and is not the Llanfair referred to for Dafydd Llwyd of "Llanfair, Cedewaen".[9]
  • Llanfair, Cedewaen is probably today's "Llanfair Caereinion". As shown on Google Maps, it is about 3 miles north of Manafon, 10 miles north of Newtown, and about 30 miles west of Shrewsbury.[21] See also Wikipedia: Llanfair Caereinion.

Rhys ap Dafydd Llwyd of...

"Rees David Lloyd, Esquire of the body of Edward the 4th, (who being a Captain was slayne at Banbury field, being then Stuart of the severall Townes and Lordshipps in Montgomery-shire, viz: Kery, Halseter, Newtown, Cedewen, Llanidlos, Caer Sws, Arwystle, Machynlleth, and Cyveiliock, having there Jura Regalia), who was the son of David Lloyd ap David ap Einion ap Howell ap Tudur..."[6]
Rhys's son Maredudd ap Rhys ap Dafydd Llwyd was "Steward of Kery, Kedewen, Arwystl, Kyveiliock, and High Constable of the Castle of Montgomery."[5]
Rhys ap Dafydd Llwyd (abt.1440-aft.1469) of...
  • Kery - aka Ceri, noted in the map of Montgomeryshire shown here; see also this map of Cedewain. (I have a suspician that the "Kedewenkerry" of the 1536 Act of Union[27] is combining Cedewain and Ceri, and they are adjacent, but I have not been able to confirm this. ~ Noland-165, 10 Feb. 2022)
    • From Montgomeryshire (wikizero):

      "In addition, for practical reasons, Montgomeryshire gained the commote of Ceri, which had formed a northwards spur of the less organised region Between Wye and Severn; most of the rest of the latter region became Radnorshire."[28]
  • Halseter... maybe "Alcester" from the Act of Union? [27]
  • Newtown/Nova Villa - Manafon is between Newtown and Llanfair ("Davawid Lloyd [Rhys's father] of Llanfair in Cedewaen, now called Newtown Hall"[9] - see GoogleMaps ("Montgomeryshire -> Shrewsbury" also shows Newtown -> Manafon -> Llanfair, as well as Montgomery Castle to Shrewsbury)[21]
  • Cedewen/Kedewenkerry - the Montgomershire map noted for Kery/Ceri also shows ""Cedewain/Newtown"; "Kedewenkerry" in the 1536 Act of Union
  • Llanidlos - lies between Manafon and Mathafarn (closer to Mathafarn); see Wikipedia: Llanidloes; shown on the Montgomeryshire map as Arwystle/Llanidloes, west of Ceri and south of "Cyfeiliog/Machynlleth" (Manafon is north of Ceri and Mathafarn is near Macynlleth)
  • Caer Sws... maybe "Cawrsland" from the 1536 Act of Union? [27]
  • Arwystle - shown as Arwystle/Llanidloes on the Montgomeryshire map maybe "Arustley" from the Act of Union? [27]
  • Machynlleth - a town near Mathafarn and Llanwrin; see Wikipedia: Machynlleth
  • Cyveiliock/Kyveiliock/Keviliock... "Keviliock" in the Act of Union [27]
  • Castle of Montgomery - see GoogleMaps (shows Newtown to Montgomeryshire Castle to Shrewsbury)[21]

Rhys's wife, Dafydd Llwyd's wife

Rhys ap Dafydd Llwyd married "Margaret, daughter of Ieuan ab Owen ap Meredith, of Neuadd-wen".[10]
  • Neuadd-wen means White Hall, and there are lots of White Halls found today in Wales (including one in Ceredigion, which was the historic county of Cardiganshire; see Wikipedia: Ceredigion; Gogerddan, Cardiganshire, was home of another branch of the Price Family[29]).
  • likely she's from the Neuadd Wen described in the biography of Ieuan ap Bedo Gwyn "(fl. c. 1530-1590?), poet and owner of the Llysyn estate, Llanerfyl, Montgomeryshire, before its purchase by the Herbert family; descendant of one of the younger branches of the family of Neuadd Wen (a neighbouring estate)...."[30]
  • "Llanerfyl is located in the county of Powys, Wales, five miles north-west of the town of Llanfair Caereinion, 29 miles west of the major town of Shrewsbury.... Llanerfyl was historically in the county of Montgomeryshire."[31] See the map on this page & also on Wikipedia.
  • need to check/update footnote about Neuadd-wen on Rhy's profile - Ap_Dafydd_Llwyd-1 as appropriate
Rhys was the son of Dafydd Llwyd and his wife Gwenllian, the daughter of Meredith ab Owen ap Griffith ab Einion, "lord of Towyn"[32]
  • "Lord of Towyn" is addressed in footnote 2, page 59, noting that "Towyn is a tract of land on the sea coast of Cardiganshire, from the mouth of the Teivi northward, within which the "Lords of Towyn," in succession, had a mansion celebrated by the bards for its good cheer."
  • this map of Cardigan Bay shows "Tywyn" (from Wikipedia: Cardigan Bay)
  • Page 318 has a Blaeney connection to the Lords of Towyn, in that Lucy Blaeney, daughter of David Lloyd Blaeney, Knt., married Maurice Owen, son of Richard Maurice and Elen Lloyd, daughter of John Vaughan "ap Rhydderch ap Rees ap Meredith ap Owen, Lord of Towne"... Gwenllian (Dafydd Llwyd's wife) is daughter of Meredith ap Owen ap Griffith, "Lord of the Towyn" - probably the same Meredith ap Owen.
  • Page 59 has additional genealogical information that may support the supposition that Gwenllian ferch Meredith ap Owen ap Griffith is the sister of Rhy ap Meredith ap Owen.

Other Price Families

Most notably is the family of the brother of Meredith ap Rhys, Thomas Pryce, whose son was Matthew Goch. See the Visitations of Wales, page 315 (the tabular pedigree for Thomas and, at the bottom of the page, a narrative that identifies Thomas's brother Meredith and, in footnote 7, refers to the tabular pedigree on page 314 of the "Pryce's of Newtown" for the ancestry of "Rees ap David Lloyd Esqr)[5] and the profiles for Thomas Pryce and his son Matthew Goch.

The Visitations of Wales shows the tabular pedigree for Thomas's family on page 315.[5] It includes Matthew Goch ap Thomas ans some of his descendants. On page 272 (footnote 3), Matthew's son John Pryce is named as husband of Elizabeth Blaeney. John and Elizabeth's son Edward was the father of John Pryce, who was "created a Baronet, 15 August 1628. Sir John Pryce married Catherine, daughter of Sir Richard Pryse, of Gogerddan, Knight."[33]

Prices of Gogerddan

Elizabeth Perrot, daughter of Thomas Perrot and Mary Berkeley, married John Price of Gogerddan, Cardiganshire, Esq. Their son Sir Richard Price of Gogerddan, Knt., was the father of Sir John Price of Gogerddan, Knt. (names standardized from Visitations, p 134).[34]
From the History of Parliament Online biography of John Price (by 1532-84): "1st s. of Richard ap Rhys Dafydd Lloyd of Gogerddan by Elliw, da. and coh. of William ap Jenkin ap Iorwerth. educ. I. Temple 1550. m. (1) Elizabeth, da. of Thomas Perrot of Islington, Mdx. and Haroldston, Pemb., 2s. Thomas and Richard Price II 1da.; (2) Bridget, da. of James Price of Monaughty, Rad., 1s. suc. fa. Sept. 1553 or later.
hidden text ("unhidden"): notes... Elliw named in Visitations, p [not sure what the note was for]... looking... Thomas Perrot (c1505-1531)

From table below (minus table coding and ref tags/reformatted a bit)...

John Price (-1584) of Gogerddan, Cardiganshire (1553-72), HOP bios: 1509-1558 & 1558-1603

Footnote: The History of Parliament Online has two biographies for the Richard Price who is son of John, with a brother Thomas (but this Richard's wife is listed as Gwen/Gwenllian, not Ursula):
hidden text: this John's HOP bio says he's son of "Richard ap Rhys ap Dafydd Lloyd of Gogerddan" & Elliw, da. & coh. of William ap Jenkin ap Iorwerth
  • Sir Richard Price (1561-1623) of Plâs Gogerddan, Gogerddan, Llanbadarn Fawr, Cardiganshire, "m. bef. 1591, Gwen (Gwenllian) (d.1639) da. and h. of Thomas ap Rhys ap Morys ap Owen of Aberbechan, Newtown, Mont., 4s (1 d.v.p.), 6da.(2 d.v.p.)4 suc. fa. 1584;5 kntd. 28 June 1603.6 d. 5 Feb. 1623.7 sig. Rich[ard] Pryse." biographical information in the 1604-1629 section
  • Richard Price (1562-1623) of Gogerddan, Llanbadarnfawr, Cardiganshire married "Gwen (or Gwenllian), da. and h. of Thomas ap Rhys ap Morus of Aberbechan, Newtown, Mont." from the 1558-1602 section
  • Brother of Thomas Price (-1623)
  • Richard and Thomas were sons of John Price (by 1532-84) of the Inner Temple, London and Gogerddan, Card., who married (1) Elizabeth Perrot, (2) Bridget, daughter of James Price of Monaughty, Rad. This John Price has a second History of Parliament Online biography:

DWB Family Pages

The following family pages are from the Dictionary of Welsh Biography:
See also
  • John Price: PRICE (or PRYS), Sir JOHN (1502? - 1555), notary public, the king's principal registrar in causes ecclesiastical, and secretary of the Council in Wales and the Marches

MPs

The History of Parliament Online refers to the Herberts and Prices as the two most powerful families in Montgomeryshire. The families intermarried and married into other prominent families. Price MPs and some MPs from related families are included in the following table, which is ordered by year but is sortable. For more on the politics, see the next section. For a history of representation of Montgomery Boroughs, see https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1558-1603/constituencies/montgomery-boroughs this History of Parliament Online page] (which covers the Herberts and touches on Rowland Pugh).

Year
first-last		NameConstituencyHOP Bio(s)WikiTree ProfileRelative(s)
1542Price, JohnRadnorshire1509-1558WikiTree-ID (-1550?)unknown
1542-58Herbert, WilliamMontgomery Boroughs1509-1558WikiTree-ID (-1570?)son of Richard (-1539)[36]
1547-54Price, JohnBreconshire, Hereford, Ludlow, Ludgershall1509-1558Price-707 (-1555)father of Richard (-c1587), Gregory (-1600)
1547-89Perrot, JohnCarmarthenshire+
see HOP bio		1509-1558Perrot-4 (-1592)
1553 Herbert, Richard Montgomery Boroughs1509-1558WikiTree-ID (-1603/5)son of William (-1570)[36]
1553-71Jones, HenryCarmarthenshire, Cardiganshire, Carmarthenshire, Old Sarum1509-1558Johnes-9 (-1586)see footnote[37]
1553-72Price, John
of Gogerddan		Cardiganshire1509-1558
1558-1603		Pryse-35 (-1584)
Pryse-32,Price-5793		sons Thomas & Richard,[35] John's mother=Elliw
1553-89Herbert, EdwardMontgomeryshire1509-1558
1558-1603 		Herbert-2013 (-1593)son of Richard (-1539),[36] m Elizabeth Price-9728 (-1588), da. Matthew[38]
1558-97Price, GregoryHerefordshire
Hereford		1509-1558
1558-1603		Price-706 (-1600)son of John (-1555), bro. of Richard (-c1587)
1563Herbert, EdwardOld Sarum1558-1603- (-1595)son of William (-1570)[36]
1563, 72Price, John
of Newtown		Montgomery Boroughs, Montgomeryshire1558-1603- (-1602)son of Matthew Goch
1571Price, Arthur
of Vaynor		Montgomery Boroughs1558-1603Price-1411 (-1597)son of Matthew Goch
1571Price, RichardBrecon Boroughs1558-1603Price-13773 (-c1587)son of John (-1555), bro. of Gregory (-1600)
1572, 84Herbert, RichardMontgomery Boroughs, Montgomeryshire1558-1603Herbert-2208 (-1596)son of Edward (-1593), father of Edward (-1648)
1572, 89Pugh, RowlandMontgomery Boroughs1558-1603WikiTree-ID (-p1588)[39]m Katherine Herbert, da. of Richard (-1603/5)
1584Herbert, RichardMontgomery Boroughs1558-1603WikiTree-ID (-?)illegit. son of Edward (-1593), m da. of Richard Herbert (-1603/5)
1584-1621Price, Richard
of Gogerddan		Cardiganshire1558-1603?Price-5795 (-1623)son of John, brother of Thomas
1586Herbert, MatthewMontgomery Boroughs1558-1603WikiTree-ID (-1611)son of Edward (-1593)
1597Price, Thomas
of Gogerddan		Cardiganshire1558-1603- (-1623)] see footnote[35]
1597-1628Herbert, WilliamMontgomeryshire1558-1603- (-1656)son of Edward (-1595)
1601, 04Herbert, EdwardMontgomeryshire, Merioneth1558-1603Herbert-2443 (-1648)son of Richard (-1596)[40]
1624,25Pugh, RowlandCardigan Boroughs1604-1629Pugh-3820 (-1644)m (1) da. of Richard Price of Gogerddan

Herbert-Price Politics

The Montgomery Boroughs (1604-1629) page posted by the History of Parliament Online gives insight into the politics of the time and also makes one wonder whether the Herbert-Price intermarriages were an attempt to forge alliances or more akin to Romeo and Juliet's situation: "The narrowing of the franchise undoubtedly took place with the encouragement of the Herbert family, who dominated the county’s parliamentary representation in the century between the Union and the Civil War: the last thing they would have wanted to see was an influx of voters from Llanfyllin, where their enemies the Vaughans of Llywidiarth had influence, or Newtown, residence of the Price family, who had challenged their authority at the county election of 1588."[41]
The History of Parliament Online page Montgomeryshire indicates the intermarriages preceded the animosity, noting that "the ties between the two houses had been loosened by the death of Edward Herbert I’s wife, Elizabeth née Price, and new alliances which were bound to alienate the Herberts had been formed between the Prices and the Vaughans of Llwydiarth."[42]
Another Montgomery Boroughs page posted by the History of Parliament Online (for 1558-1603) notes that "John Price II and Arthur Price [the 1563 and 1571 Members], were from the second most powerful family in the county, allied by marriage to the Herberts. Both MPs were brothers-in-law of Edward Herbert I. By 1588 the relationship between the families had deteriorated and there was a contested county election, at the centre of which the unfortunate Rowland Pugh found himself."[43]
The Rowland Pugh whose first wife was Elizabeth, daughter of Sir Richard Price of Gogerddan, was born 1579. He was MP in the 1600s.[44]

Blayneys

Elizabeth Blayney, from Matthew Goch's profile (as of 3 February 2022): A merge added another wife, Elisabeth Blayney: Elisabeth (Blayney) Price (1530-). His son John is also attached as husband to Elizabeth Blayney: Elizabeth (Blayney) Price (1546-1547) - sister of the first Elisabeth Blayney. The first Elisabeth Blayney (Blayney-66) is also attached as wife of Griffith ap Rhys (abt.1501-abt.1528), who is attached as husband of Elizabeth Herbert (Herbert-1901), son of Matthew Price (Price-174), and father of Richard (Price-8010), born 1554, now in a proposed merge with Richard Price-172, born 1555, husband of Ursula. Richard and Ursula are said to be the parents of John "the Immigrant" Price-171. ~ as of 26 January 2022
  • Note: On 16 February, the PM notified me that the profile had originally been for Richard ap Rhys & she was working on it. As of this date, the profile of Griffith ap Rhys (born about 1501 in Maenordeilo, died 1528) has been edited to represent Richard ap Rhys born 1530 and died 1601. The profile is attached as husband of Elizabeth Blaeney (Blayney-66), born c1530. ~ Noland-165, 16 February 2022
Blaeneys appear in several Price families.

Footnotes & Source List

  1. ↑ 1.0 1.1 See the pedigrees on pages 290, 291, 314-315, 331 in the Visitations of Wales, volume I.
  2. ↑ 2.0 2.1 John Price, mustered at Neck of Land, Charles City, Virginia, with wife Ann Price and Mary, a 3-month-old child (not specifically stated as his daughter, or surnamed "Price"). ~ Hotten, page 203.
  3. ↑ 3.0 3.1 The Visitations of Wales entry for the family of Richard ap John ap Meredith (315-316) has the heading "The Pedigrees of Richd. ap John ap Meredith, One of the Gentlemen of the Parish of Kerie." An additional heading, above that, is "Glanmeheli in Ceri Parish", footnoted "This heading has been supplied by the editor." The SGM discussion notes that the father of John the immigrant is Richard of Glan Meheli:
    • Paul K. Davis, SGM post 29 March 2004, in the discussion "Royal ancestry: John Price of Jamestown" (accessed 26 January 2022).
  4. ↑ See also Kay Haden's Rootsweb site, "Some Descendants of John Price", First Generation.
  5. ↑ 5.0 5.1 5.2 5.3 5.4 5.5 5.6 5.7 5.8 5.9 Visitations of Wales, pages 315-316.
  6. ↑ 6.0 6.1 Visitations of Wales, page 313.
  7. ↑ 7.0 7.1 Soldiers, Weapons and Armies in the Fifteenth Century, edited by Anne Curry, Adrian R. Bell (page 116, Google Books, accessed 1 February 2022). The book lists poems related to the fall of William Herbert which includes the one for Rhys: "For Rhys ap Dafydd Llwyd, missing after the battle of Edgecote" (page 102).
  8. ↑ 8.0 8.1 Richard Williams (1894). Montgomeryshire worthies (archive.org full text - search for Llwyd, Dafydd), cited by this online entry for Dafydd Llwyd (accessed 31 January 2022).
  9. ↑ 9.0 9.1 9.2 9.3 Jacob Youde William Lloyd, The History of the Princes, the Lords Marcher, and the Ancient Nobility of Powys Fadog: And the Ancient Lords of Arwystli, Cedewen, and Meirionydd, Volume 4 (T. Richards, 1884): "Newtown Hall and Vaenor", page 374; Meredith's pedigree continues on page 259. (Google Books, accessed 1 February 2022).
  10. ↑ 10.0 10.1 10.2 Visitations of Wales, page 316.
  11. ↑ Behind the Name: Maredudd (accessed 1 February 2022).
  12. ↑ The Welsh alphabet today has 29 letters but does not include the letters K, Q, V, X, or Z - nor J for the time period of this Price lineage: "The letter j has been accepted into Welsh orthography only relatively recently: for use in those words borrowed from English in which the /dʒ/ sound is retained in Welsh, even where that sound is not represented by j in English spelling, as in garej (garage) and ffrij (fridge)." In addition, written Welsh uses four accent marks, "but their use is not considered part of the alphabet." ~ Welsh orthography (Wikipedia, accessed 4 February 2022), which includes a table showing English examples to aid pronunciation. In addition to verch/ferch and John/Ieuan mentioned in the text, K is C (e.g., Ceri instead of Kery or Kerry), although according to the Wikipedia article on the Welsh language:
    • The letter "k" was in common use until the 16th century, but was dropped at the time of the publication of the New Testament in Welsh, as William Salesbury explained: "C for K, because the printers have not so many as the Welsh requireth". ~ Welsh language (Wikipedia, accessed 4 February 2022)
    From Open Learn, which also includes a pronunciation guide: "This is the order that they will appear in a Welsh dictionary: a, b, c, ch, d, dd, e, f, ff, g, ng, h, i, j, l, ll, m, n, o, p, ph, r, rh, s, t, th, u, w, y."
  13. ↑ Jamestowne Society: Price, John - A6408; born ca. 1586, died 1628; (Muster of 1624/5); Neck of Land: 1625 (Burgess) accessed 2 February 2022.
  14. ↑ Vina Chandler Price, compiler, Ancestors and Descendants of John Price: Immigrant to Virginia, 1610-11 Google Books, page 511, accessed 2 February 2022). The SGM discussion about John notes that the citation for the indenture is "British Museum, A.D.D. Charter 1036" (Google Books' snippit view includes only part of the information from the indenture, which is said to also name John's mother as Ursula).
  15. ↑ Index to the charters and rolls in the Department of manuscripts, British museum, edited by Henry J. Ellis and Francis B. Bickley, page 497 (accessed 3 February 2022). See also this G2G discussion.
  16. ↑ 16.0 16.1 16.2 16.3 Paul K. Davis, SGM post 29 March 2004, in the discussion "Royal ancestry: John Price of Jamestown" (accessed 26 January 2022).
  17. ↑ 17.0 17.1 17.2 Index to the charters and rolls in the Department of manuscripts, British museum, edited by Henry J. Ellis and Francis B. Bickley, page 497 (accessed 3 February 2022). See also this G2G discussion.
  18. ↑ VCP, Ancestor and Descendants of John Price Open Library (info from the blurbs, accessed 27 January 2022).
  19. ↑ From the profile for Richard Herbert (1468-1539), accessed 13 February 2022.
  20. ↑ Powys Local History Encyclopedia, Edward Price (accessed 6 February 2022).
  21. ↑ 21.0 21.1 21.2 21.3 See Google Maps, directions from Llanfair to Newtown via Manafon and then to Shrewsbury via Montgomery Castle, for a total of 44.8 miles by highway (about 3.5 to Manafon, about 10 from Llanfair to Newtown, then about 8 miles to the Castle & from there to Shrewsbury about 25 miles.
  22. ↑ Looking at some maps, "to the coast" appears to be true, but others (such as the one on this page) show that while Montgomeryshire extends to the mouth of the River Dyfi where it flows into Cardigan Bay, it lacks any Irish Sea coastline. As Wikipedia describes Montgomeryshire: "The shire is almost wholly mountainous, although there are some fertile valleys in the east. The highest point (county top) is Moel Sych at 826.7 metres (2,712 ft), whose summit lies at the triple county boundary point of Montgomeryshire, Denbighshire and Merionethshire in the Berwyn Mountains.... Its main rivers are the River Severn (which flows east into Shropshire) and the River Dyfi (which flows west into the Irish Sea). ~ Wikipedia: Montgomeryshire. Related Wikipedia pages:
    • River Dyfi (Welsh: Afon Dyfi, sometimes anglicised to River Dovey). The river flows "past Machynlleth to Cardigan Bay (Welsh: Bae Ceredigion) at Aberdyfi"
    • Cardigan Bay
  23. ↑ See above.
  24. ↑ Dictionary of Welsh Biography: Dafydd Llwyd ap Llywelyn ap Gruffudd (accessed 4 February 2022).
  25. ↑ 25.0 25.1 Darrell Wolcott, "The 5 Dafydd Llwyds of Llanwrin Parish" (accessed 4 February 2022).
  26. ↑ Visitation of Wales, [ page ]; History of Parliament Online: Rowland Pugh (c1579-1644) of Mathafarn, Llanwrin, Mont.
  27. ↑ 27.0 27.1 27.2 27.3 27.4 From the Powys Local History Encyclopedia entry for Montgomeryshire:

    Established by the Act of Union of 1536. The Act says:

    "VII. And it is enacted by the Authority aforesaid, That the Lordships, Townships, Parishes, Commotes and Cantreds of Mountgomery, Kedewenkerry, Cawrsland, Arustley, Keviliock, Doythur, Powesland, Clunesland, Balestey, Tempcester and Alcester . . ."

  28. ↑ A search of the History of Parliament Online site for "Wye and Severn" turns up two Price biographies:
  29. ↑ Wikipedia: Gogerddan (accessed 6 February 2022): "Gogerddan, sometimes spelled Gogarthen, was an estate near to Trefeurig and the most important in what was then the county of Cardiganshire, Wales. Owned since at least the fifteenth century by the Pryse family, the main house, called Plas Gogerddan [built in the 17th century], still stands and is a Grade II listed building." [See British Listed Buildings: Plas Gogerddan.]
  30. ↑ Dictionary of Welsh Biography: IEUAN ap BEDO GWYN, or IEUAN BEDO GWYN (accessed 6 February 2022).
  31. ↑ Get the Data: Llanerfyl (accessed 6 February 2022).
  32. ↑ Jones, E. D., (1959). DAFYDD LLWYD ap DAFYDD ab EINION ap HYWEL, of Newtown, Montgomeryshire (died before 1469), a prominent figure in Cydewain and a generous patron of the 15th century bards. Dictionary of Welsh Biography online (accessed 31 January 2022).
  33. ↑ Visitations of Wales, page 272, footnote 3.
  34. ↑ Visitations of Wales, page 134.
  35. ↑ 35.0 35.1 35.2 The History of Parliament Online has two biographies for the Richard Price who is son of John, with a brother Thomas (but this Richard's wife is listed as Gwen/Gwenllian, not Ursula):
    • Sir Richard Price (1561-1623) of Plâs Gogerddan, Gogerddan, Llanbadarn Fawr, Cardiganshire, "m. bef. 1591, Gwen (Gwenllian) (d.1639) da. and h. of Thomas ap Rhys ap Morys ap Owen of Aberbechan, Newtown, Mont., 4s (1 d.v.p.), 6da.(2 d.v.p.)4 suc. fa. 1584;5 kntd. 28 June 1603.6 d. 5 Feb. 1623.7 sig. Rich[ard] Pryse." biographical information in the 1604-1629 section
    • Richard Price (1562-1623) of Gogerddan, Llanbadarnfawr, Cardiganshire married "Gwen (or Gwenllian), da. and h. of Thomas ap Rhys ap Morus of Aberbechan, Newtown, Mont." from the 1558-1603 section
    • Brother of Thomas Price (-1623)
    • Richard and Thomas were sons of John Price (by 1532-84) of the Inner Temple, London and Gogerddan, Card., who married (1) Elizabeth Perrot, (2) Bridget, daughter of James Price of Monaughty, Rad. This John Price has a second History of Parliament Online biography:
  36. ↑ 36.0 36.1 36.2 36.3 William Herbert (1505-?70), son of Richard (died 1539), was half brother of Edward Herbert (c1513-93) and John (c1515-83 "or later"; see his HOP bio). William married "Jane, da. of John ap Meredith" (no other info about him in HOP). William had at least one son (according to William's HOP bio) - Richard (the link in William's HOP bio goes to a different person). William's sons (according to their HOP bios) are
    • Richard Herbert (HOP bio, WikiTree-ID (-1603/5).
    • Edward Herbert (HOP bio, WikiTree-ID (-1595).
  37. ↑ Henry Jones married (1) Elizabeth Herbert, daughter of Mathew; half-brother of John Perrot (died 1592) and is mentioned in the biography of John, son of Richard ap Rhys ap Dafydd Lloyd Rhys of Gogerddan, as a brother-in-law. His second wife was Eleanor, the widow of Sir Robert Vaughan (see his HOP bio).
  38. ↑ Visitations of Wales, page 293.
  39. ↑ From his HOP bio: "by 1602 the estate had passed to his grandson, another Rowland Pugh, who became sheriff six years later"
  40. ↑ Edward Herbert (1582-1648) married Mary, daughter of Sir William Herbert (c.1554-93), of St. Julian's and Tintern, Mon. and Mortlake, Surr./HOP, son of William Herbert (by 1530-67), of St. Julian's, Mon./HOP. Edward and Mary's son Richard was also a Montgomeryshire MP. Note: The biography for their son Richard is not yet posted in History of Parliament Online, but the biography for Richard's son is: Hon. Henry Herbert (1643-91). The HOP bio for Richard's father says that "[t]he next MP in the family was his son Richard, who represented Montgomeryshire in the Short Parliament, and Montgomery Boroughs in the Long Parliament."
  41. ↑ History of Parliament Online: Montgomery Boroughs, 1604-1629 (accessed 4 February 2022).
  42. ↑ History of Parliament Online: Montgomeryshire (accessed 6 February 2022).
  43. ↑ History of Parliament Online: Montgomery Boroughs, 1558-1603 (accessed 6 February 2022).
  44. ↑ History of Parliament Online: Rowland Pugh (c1579-1644) of Mathafarn, Llanwrin, Mont.
  • Paul K. Davis, SGM post 29 March 2004, in the discussion "Royal ancestry: John Price of Jamestown" (accessed 26 January 2022).
  • Kay Haden, Rootsweb site, "Some Descendants of John Price", First Generation.
  • John Camden Hotten, The original lists of persons of quality; emigrants; ... and others who went from Great Britain to the American Plantations, 1600-1700... (1874), archive.org.
  • Sir Samuel Rush Meyrick (1846). Lewys Dwnn's Heraldic visitations of Wales and part of the Marches; between the years 1586 and 1613, under the authority of Clarencieux and Norroy, two kings at arms. HathiTrust (accessed 31 January 2022).
  • Vina Chandler Price, C. G., compiler, Ancestors and Descendants of John Price: Immigrant to Virginia 1610-11 (Baltimore: Gateway Press, Inc., 1988), Google Books (snippit view). Note that this book discusses inaccuracies in B.L. Price's work:
    • Rev. Benjamin Luther Price, John Price the emigrant, Jamestown colony 1620, with some of his descendants (Alexandria, Louisiana publishing, 1910), pdf, archive.org (full text).
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Categories: US Southern Colonies Family Studies