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Richard Harvey and Elizabeth Morrell - Fact Assessment

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Surname/tag: Harvey, Morell
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1776 Project
... ... ... ... served with Virginia during the American Revolution.

Contents

This is the text as it was on May 20, 2021

(Original) Biography

Family stories and unsourced family trees indicate Richard Harvey was born in Albemarle County, Virginia about 1759.[1]There are two Richard Harveys listed in Albemarle Co. in 1779.[2] There are no verifiable records found that list a middle name of Thomas. In court records, census records, revolutionary war records and newspaper articles, only the name Richard Harvey or Richard Harvey, Sr. is documented. A few unsourced trees add a middle name of Thomas for him, however, middle names were not common when he was born.[3]

There have been no documents found that identify his parents. Although some trees on Ancestry.com list Lemuel and Hannah as is parents, there are no verified records that confirm them as parents. As noted in the comments “Lemuel is more likely to be a brother or cousin than father; Richard's father would likely have been too old to make the trip westward by 1784-1793.”. There is a John Harvey in Albemarle Co. in 1746,[4], and this is the most likely candidate for parentage. This is probably not John Harvie, as his son Richard Harvie seems to be older and have different children. There is also a Moores family there in 1799, which may provide an alternate spelling for his wife's surname. There are no verified records that document his marriage, though family trees and stories note he married Elizabeth Morell. It is probable they were married before Richard enlisted on 7 Nov 1776 since their first known child, Martha, has a birth date of about 1777 and the second child is not born until after the war. There are family trees that write about a North Carolina connection, though Albemarle Co., VA seems to be his place of origin. Some descendants of William Harvey, Sr. - with whom there are multiple DNA connections - are known to have migrated to North Carolina by the 1790s.

Early Years

On 7 November 1776, Richard enlisted with the 11th Virginia Regiment [5] as a Private [6] [7] in which he served the next two years.[8][9] [10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20]. He served under Captain William Blackwell and was at Valley Forge the winter of 1778[21]. After the Continental divisions[22] in 1778, he served with the 15th Virginia Regiment [23][24][25][26][27][28][29] under Col. John Cropper's Company. He finished his service with the 7th Virginia Regiment and was discharged on 1 November 1779. None of the muster rolls reviewed (Rice-8480) showed Richard Harvey served with another Harvey, that could be investigated as his father or brothers, although they may have served in other regiments. In a review of multiple muster rolls, Richard Harvey had no illness or desertion documented. If Richard had not had smallpox, or been inoculated after enlistment, he would have been inoculated at Valley Forge per orders of General Washington. [30] [31]

After the war, John Marshall [32] wrote a letter for Richard Harvey for a bounty warrant and it states “I certify that Richard Harvey enlisted in my company in the 11th Virginia Regiment sometime in the year 1776 & that he served faithfully the time for which he was enlisted which was 3 years. Land Warrant S/ John Marshall Then Captain 11th Virginia Regiment” [33][34]. He was assigned a Land Warrant on 21 Aug 1784 but never patented it. See attached Land Warrant #3430 for possible reasons the land was never patented.[35]

Mid-Life

Sometime between 1784-1792, Richard and his family moved to Georgia and began obtaining land. One warrant for 300 acres was dated August 28th 1792 on the South side of Black Creek in Effingham County, Georgia, Book B, page 25. This later became Bryan County, Georgia. [36][37]Richard Harvey obtained 300 acres in Effingham County in 1793.[38]

Richard Harvey is listed in the 1795 Convention of the State of Georgia record. Richard Harvey is on the Jury lists of 1797 including 8 April 1797 and 7 June 1797 “1797 April 8- At a meeting of the Justices at Mulberry Hill, the following jurors were chosen. Daniel Cubbedge, Willinm Cubbedge, Benjamin Ward, Sealy Thomas, David Gould, Henry Wells, James Simms, James Middleton, Henry Austin, Joe Nathaniel Hawthorne, John Becket, James Cook, John Bandy, Alexander Bird, John McIver, Gillian William Winn, Isaac Willoughby, Harden White, Richard Harvey, James Scott, William Harn, Henry Harn, Henry H. Harn, Stephen Maxwell, Solomon Thompson, Simons Maxwell, John Towle, George Crum, Henry Shuman, John Wright, Hardy Lanier, Bryan Morel, Michael B. Stanland, Philip O. Daniel. Court held at White Oak Plantation June 7, 1797. Edmund Jones and Henry Harn were drawn as Constables. Richard Harvey and John Owens to serve in upper district.“ [39]

Later Years

In 1800, a Richard Harvey was granted 300 acres of land in Effingham County, Georgia. It is possible that after Bryan County was fully developed, this same tract of land was included in Bryan County territory.

In the Georgia Black Book Volume II, Richard Harvey is listed as a tax defaulter in 1812 for Bryan County, Georgia.

In 1820, Richard was living in Bryan County, Georgia. [40]

Harvey’s listed in the 1820 Bryan County, Georgia US Federal Census (5 pages total) are: Page 1 - Isaac and Richard, Page 3 - Samuel (Lemuel?) and John, Page 4 - Richard.

In 1820, Richard Harvey, Sr. was in the 1820 Lottery and drew 3 times for lots. See copy of the first page of a 1988 letter sent to Helen Rice from Helen Harrison from the Georgia Secretary of State. [41] [42]

On 22 December 1821 Richard and Elizabeth Harvey of Bryan County, Georgia transferred 250 acres in Lot 23, 2nd district to David J. Brit of Morgan County, Georgia. The witnesses were Peter Cone, William Williams, JP. This information was recorded 12 Jan 1824.

Death

Richard Harvey passed away in 1823. This date is supported by an article in the Savannah Daily Republican that was published several times during the Fall of 1823. On 3 Oct 1823, John Harvey (believed to be the brother of Richard Harvey) applied for letters of administration on the estate and effects of Richard Harvey, Sr, deceased. [43] Later, for some reason, James Bird of Lowndes County, Georgia became his executor. The land in the 11th district of Irwin County, Georgia, Lot #155 that Richard Harvey, Sr. drew in the 1820 land lottery was transferred to James Bird from Richard’s heirs. John Harvey, Hiram Waller, Will Williams, Richard Harvey (Jr.), Emanuel Harvey, Isaac Harvey and Elizabeth Harvey signed the document. The document was recorded 5 Feb 1859 (see attached).

There is controversy about documentation of Richard Harvey being buried at Lower Black Creek Cemetery in Bryan County, Georgia.[44] In 1823, the church and cemetery did not exist. The church was constituted in 1839 and is part of the Lotts Creek Association. It is not known when the cemetery was started. The oldest grave I found was a burial from 1852. This includes a survey of graves by Alfred W. Chassereau.[45] At the time of Richard’s death in 1823, the church was not constituted.[46]

It is unlikely that Richard is buried with his wife Elizabeth. It is documented that Elizabeth's estate was probated in 1852 in Jackson County, Florida after her death in 1835[47] Elizabeth had moved to Florida with her daughter Elizabeth Harvey Davis. She and her slaves were named in an 1852 Jackson County, Florida Petition 20585202 by her grandson John Davis. The petition notes "that there are seven slaves in said estate, "of which three are under six years of age besides which the children are all the issue of one woman Cherry and it would not only be unjust but inhuman to part children of such tender years from their mother."[48][49][50]

Known Issue

The known children of Richard and Elizabeth Morell Harvey are:

  • Martha born about 1777 married John Sheffield. John M: born 1787 and died 9 Nov 1861 Baker, Florida.
  • Rebecca born about 1780 married 1st John Walter Davis then 2nd Devaun or Devaughn
  • William Harvey born about 1782 married Nancy.
  • John M, Harvey born 1787 married Mary Ann Alexander and Judith Futch.
  • Susannah "Susan" born about 1788 married 1st William Emanuel McElveen, 2nd Edmund Burnsides and 3rd William Bragg.
  • Isaac born about 1790 married Elizabeth Burnside.
  • Nancy born about 1793 married Hiram Waller.
  • Elizabeth born about 1795 married Alexander Bird. Although multiple family trees note this marriage, more info is needed to confirm or dispute this marriage.
  • Mary (Polly) Ann born about 1795 married James Martin.
  • Sarah born 1796 and died 1860 Baker, Florida. She married William Andrew Williams 24 Feb 1813.
  • Lemuel (some have transcribed as Samuel) born about 1798 married Sarah.
  • Richard Thomas: born 1800 and died 1860 married Cynthia Burnside.
  • Emanuel born about 1804 married Mahaley.

Research Notes

The following are siblings as noted by current information: Richard Harvey, Sr. , John Harvey , Isaac Harvey , Lemuel Harvey , Emanuel Harvey , and Lemuel Harvey is thought to be related but not their father.

Census Records: Harvey’s listed as Heads of Households (census records do not list names of every person in household so there may be siblings, aunts, uncles, grandparents or others) 1820 Bryan County, Georgia Census

  • Page 1 - Isaac (male 16-25)
  • Page 1 - Richard (male 16-25)
  • Page 3 - Lemuel (male 45 & over)
  • Page 3 - John (male 26-44)
  • Page 4 - Richard (male 45 & over)

1820 Effingham County, Georgia Census

  • Benjamin Harvey or Hervey.

1830 Bryan County, Georgia Census

  • Page 6 of 12 - Richard (male 30-39)
  • Page 6 of 12 - John (male 40-49)
  • Page 6 of 12 - Isaac (male 30-39)
  • Page 7 of 12 - William (male 40-49)
  • Page 7 of 12 - Mrs. Elizabeth (female 60-69)
  • Page 9 of 12 - Lemuel (male 30-39)

1840 Bryan County, Georgia Census

  • Page 107 - E. (male 30-39)
  • Page 107 - E. Wd (female 70-79)
  • Page 107 - William, Jr. (male 20-29)
  • Page 107 - J M (male 15-19)
  • Page 107 - Lemuel (male 50-59)
  • Page 107 - William (male 60-69)
  • Page 108 - Richard (male 40-49)
  • Page 115 - John (male 50-59)

Note: This is another Richard Harvey on WikiTree identified as being from Albemarle County, Virginia

5. Many of the family stories Helen Rice has heard is that he and Elizabeth were buried on land from either the original or other land granted or bought or in the Old Granny Harvey Graveyard. His burial site is believed to be near Lower Black Creek where Harvey Plantations were located. This is in the area destroyed by Gen. Sherman and his army in Dec. 1864. In a review of James Bryan Harvey's probate records, a cemetery named the old Granny Harvey Graveyard is documented as being a part of his estate. This graveyard was talked about by 2 of Oscar Harvey's family. Neither of them remembered where it was and for years I thought it did not exist until I saw it documented in the court records. A William’s Cemetery was found in Bryan County, Georgia that might be the old Granny Harvey Graveyard and has been posted on Findagrave.[51]

6. Find A Grave lists a William Harvey MEMORIAL ID 122286960 born 1744 that was “ in Captain Garland Kurnley`s Company of "Albemarle Barracks Guards" of Colonel Francis Taylor`s 9th Virginia Militia Regiment”. Looking for any links between him and the above Richard.

DNA

There are DNA links between descendants of Richard Harvey, Sr. and Elizabeth Morell and descendants of William Harvey, Jr. and Margaret Beall that may provide leads for future research on Harvey's ancestry. Those links are under 7 cMs, suggesting a very distant relationship amongst modern-day descendants.[52]
There are also DNA links between descendants of William Harvey - who may be the same man as William Harvey, Sr. - and Margaret "Peggy" Wheeler - who may be a second wife - and descendants of Richard Harvey, Sr. and Elizabeth Morell. Those links too are under 7 cMs, though a few approach that threshold.[53]
Finally, there are DNA links between descendants of Thomas Harvey and Cassandra Gott and descendants of Richard Harvey, Sr. and Elizabeth Morell.[54]
This is fairly persuasive proof that William Harvey, Sr./ William Harvey and Richard Harvey, Sr. share a common ancestor, and that the Montgomery Co. Harveys, the Bryan Co. Harveys and the Baltimore Co. Harveys are all related.

RESPONSE FROM Moyer-780 22:17, 16 May 2021 (UTC):

I want to state up front that no matter what we may say about what Helen's sources may mean in the long run, she is AWESOME! Every source will add to some story somewhere even if at the moment I don't think it's here and this is why:

There are strong possibilities that we have confused two Richard Harveys: one born in Georgia and one that was born in Virginia. I think we need to step back and take a closer look at our evidence. Wouldn't it be awful if there's a ton of information for a man from Virginia who fought in Valley Forge that could benefit from all of these rich sources? And yet what's left is a whole bunch of sourcing for our ancestor from Georgia?

DNA To begin: my biggest issue (and there are others) is how my autosomal DNA when compared with others from a given family can be genetically matched to Helen and not to me. I know at least my mtDNA is attached to his wife, Elizabeth which is not conclusive, but when with other evidence makes it more than passingly possible that this is a different family.

If Helen has connections even remotely with family members different from me, it would seem they are connected to her through another line? We have to be careful as our connections to the world tree can be both direct as in straight from parent to child or indirectly through a parent marrying someone after their partner is gone.

1) There are DNA links between descendants of Richard Harvey, Sr. and Elizabeth Morell and descendants of William Harvey, Jr. and Margaret Beall that may provide leads for future research on Harvey's ancestry. Those links are under 7 cMs, suggesting a very distant relationship amongst modern-day descendants.[1]

There are 6 degrees of Separation in a direct link between Amanda (Moyer) Torrey and Richard Harvey who is married to Elizabeth (Morel) Harvey [1]. We also see 6 degrees of Separation in a direct link between Amanda (Moyer) Torrey and their son Isaac Harvey.

There are 10 Degrees of Separation between Amanda (Moyer) Torrey and Mark Richardson [2]

I have no idea why Mark Richardson kit doesn't show up for me on gedmatch.

Through the Relationship Tool, we see 12 Degrees of separation if a Direct" connection between Amanda (Moyer) Torrey and Tery Bell. What this means is the connection is between genetically linked family members, not marriages. [3]

Adding Gedmatch: : Largest segment = 11.1 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) 11.1cM (0.31 Pct) Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 5.2 1 shared segments found for this comparison. 414514 SNPs used for this comparison. 70.364 Pct SNPs are full identical Shows up on the 19th Chromosome

Through the Relationship Tool we see 11 degrees of separation of a direct connection between me and Helen Rice [4] Gedmatch: Largest segment = 7.3 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) 7.3cM (0.202 Pct) Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 7.5 1 shared segments found for this comparison. 413214 SNPs used for this comparison. 70.544 Pct SNPs are full identical Comparison took 0.234. CPU time used: 0.04. Sits on the 14th Chromosome

There are no connections between Amanda (Moyer) Torrey and William Harvey, Jr. from Maryland. [5]

Interesting thing is that though not a direct line, there is a "connection" between William Harvey, Jr. and me through Amanda (Moyer) Torrey father from Pennsylvania and his mother's ancestors through marriage. [6]

There is a sketchy 19 degrees of Separation between William Harvey Jr. and Hannah Starling [7]

No gedmatch between Amanda (Moyer) Torrey and Hannah Starling,

2) There are also DNA links between descendants of William Harvey - who may be the same man as William Harvey, Sr. - and Margaret "Peggy" Wheeler - who may be a second wife [New England]

and descendants of Richard Harvey, Sr. and Elizabeth Morell. Those links too are under 7 cMs, though a few approach that threshold.[2]

Though they might have a connection with each other, after working my way through 1), I think we've dispelled the DNA connection between the New England and Georgian Harveys. As I said, this connection does not look like it has to do with Richard Harvey as it does with Helen Rice.

I believe Mark Richardson took his account off Gedmatch because as I've said, I can't find him there. I'm disappointed that I can't access his information. On the other hand I am deeply impressed with what Terry Byrd has accomplished and will use it on my Torrey ONS study as well. Collecting and categorizing genetically linked "Cohorts" on every profile with common names like Jones, Wise and Harvey should have one of these.

Helen how do you find these cool sourcing tools?

3) Finally, there are DNA links between descendants of Thomas Harvey and Cassandra Gott and descendants of Richard Harvey, Sr. and Elizabeth Morell.[3]

Even before doing the Gedmatch between me and The Gotts, through the "Relationship" tool, there's a connection by marriage on my father's family from Pennsylvania which has NOTHING to do with my mother from Georgia (See [8])

This is fairly persuasive proof that William Harvey, Sr./ William Harvey and Richard Harvey, Sr. share a common ancestor, and that the Montgomery Co. Harveys, the Bryan Co. Harveys and the Baltimore Co. Harveys are all related.

I'm not seeing the correlations at all. What I'm seeing is that there are completely different branches of Harveys represented here that Helen may or may not be connected to, but they don't seem to be connected to me and I'm not entirely sure the best way to sort them out. Helen and I are matched, with our common ancestor being Richard Harvey and Elizabeth Morel. I may be mistaken, but I compared both you and me with John Bowen and at least as far as I could tell there isn't any matches and I tried several times. I didn't see any with Hannah Starling either. I suspect they are attached to a different Harvey.

SOURCES So, if for the time being, we put Richard Harvey's "Virginia" sources aside, then other profiles are seen through a WHOLE OTHER context and a completely different picture emerges:

To get a better picture of Elizabeth's place of birth, I looked at her father John Morel.

Sources

  1. Unsourced family tree handed down to Helen Rice.
  2. 1779 Albemarle Co. Quit Rent Rolls
  3. Middle Names Where'd They Come From
  4. Albemarle County, Virginia Court Papers, 1744-178
  5. 11th Virginia Regiment
  6. FamilySearch
  7. FamilySearch
  8. Richard Harvey Service Record
  9. Revolutionary War Pension Application
  10. "United States Revolutionary War Rolls, 1775-1783", database with images, FamilySearch]: 15 March 2018, Richard Harvey, 31 Jul 1776; citing 31 Jul 1776, Virginia, United States, citing NARA microfilm publication M246. Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Services, 1980. FHL microfilm 830,389.
  11. "United States Revolutionary War Rolls, 1775-1783", database with images, FamilySearch: 15 March 2018, Richard Harvey, 07 Nov 1776; citing 07 Nov 1776, Virginia, United States, citing NARA microfilm publication M246. Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Services, 1980. FHL microfilm 830,384.
  12. "United States Revolutionary War Rolls, 1775-1783", database with images, FamilySearch]: 15 March 2018, Richard Harvey, Jul 1777; citing Jul 1777, Virginia, United States, citing NARA microfilm publication M246. Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Services, 1980. FHL microfilm 830,388.
  13. "United States Revolutionary War Rolls, 1775-1783", database with images, FamilySearch]: 15 March 2018, Richard Harvey, Sep 1777; citing Sep 1777, Virginia, United States, citing NARA microfilm publication M246. Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Services, 1980. FHL microfilm 830,388.
  14. "United States Revolutionary War Rolls, 1775-1783": database with images, FamilySearch]: 15 March 2018, Richard Harvey, 01 Dec 1777; citing 01 Dec 1777, Virginia, United States, citing NARA microfilm publication M246. Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Services, 1980. FHL microfilm 830,388.
  15. "United States Revolutionary War Rolls, 1775-1783", database with images, FamilySearch: 15 March 2018, Richard Harvey, Jan 1778; citing Jan 1778, Virginia, United States, citing NARA microfilm publication M246. Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Services, 1980. FHL microfilm 830,388.
  16. United States Revolutionary War Rolls, 1775-1783, database with images, FamilySearch: 15 March 2018, Richard Harvey, Jun 1778; citing Jun 1778, Virginia, United States, citing NARA microfilm publication M246. Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Services, 1980. FHL microfilm 830,389.
  17. "United States Revolutionary War Rolls, 1775-1783", database with images, FamilySearch: 15 March 2018, Richard Harvey, Jun 1778; citing Jun 1778, Virginia, United States, citing NARA microfilm publication M246. Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Services, 1980. FHL microfilm 830,389.
  18. "United States Revolutionary War Rolls, 1775-1783", database with images, FamilySearch: 15 March 2018, Richard Harvey, Jul 1778; citing Jul 1778, Virginia, United States, citing NARA microfilm publication M246. Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Services, 1980. FHL microfilm 830,389.
  19. "United States Revolutionary War Rolls, 1775-1783", database with images, FamilySearch, 15 March 2018, Richard Harvey, Aug 1778; citing Aug 1778, Virginia, United States, citing NARA microfilm publication M246. Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Services, 1980. FHL microfilm 830,389.
  20. "United States Revolutionary War Rolls, 1775-1783", database with images, FamilySearch: 15 March 2018, Richard Harvey, Aug 1778; citing Aug 1778, Virginia, United States, citing NARA microfilm publication M246. Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Services, 1980. FHL microfilm 830,389
  21. Valley Forge Muster Roll Winter 1778
  22. Southern Campaign American Revolution Pension Statements & Rosters
  23. 15th Virginia Regiment.
  24. "United States Revolutionary War Rolls, 1775-1783", database with images, FamilySearch: 15 March 2018, Richard Harvey, Sep 1778; citing Sep 1778, Virginia, United States, citing NARA microfilm publication M246. Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Services, 1980. FHL microfilm 830,389.
  25. "United States Revolutionary War Rolls, 1775-1783", database with images, FamilySearch: 15 March 2018, Richard Harvey, Sep 1778; citing Sep 1778, Virginia, United States, citing NARA microfilm publication M246. Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Services, 1980. FHL microfilm 830,389.
  26. "United States Revolutionary War Rolls, 1775-1783", database with images, FamilySearch: 15 March 2018, Richard Harvey, Oct 1778; citing Oct 1778, Virginia, United States, citing NARA microfilm publication M246. Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Services, 1980. FHL microfilm 830,389.
  27. "United States Revolutionary War Rolls, 1775-1783", database with images, FamilySearch: 15 March 2018, Richard Harvey, 01 Nov 1778; citing 01 Nov 1778, Virginia, United States, citing NARA microfilm publication M246. Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Services, 1980. FHL microfilm 830,389.
  28. "United States Revolutionary War Rolls, 1775-1783", database with images, FamilySearch: 15 March 2018, Richard Harvey, Sep 1779; citing Sep 1779, Virginia, United States, citing NARA microfilm publication M246. Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Services, 1980. FHL microfilm 830,384.
  29. "United States Revolutionary War Rolls, 1775-1783", database with images, FamilySearch: 15 March 2018, Richard Harvey, Oct 1779; citing Oct 1779, Virginia, United States, citing NARA microfilm publication M246. Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Services, 1980. FHL microfilm 830,384
  30. https://www.history.com/news/smallpox-george-washington-revolutionary-war
  31. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6654165/
  32. John Marshall
  33. Southern Campaigns Revolutionary War Pension Statements & Rosters
  34. Library of Virginia Image
  35. Kentucky Secretary of State Land Office.
  36. Headright and Lottery Loose Plat File, Georgia Surveyor General, RG 3-3-26, Georgia Archives page 1
  37. Headright and Lottery Loose Plat File, Georgia Surveyor General, RG 3-3-26, Georgia Archives page 2
  38. Record ID is 24622, Georgia Colonial and Headright Plat Index, 1735-1866 Author Abbe, Mary H. Publisher R. J. Taylor, Jr., Foundation and The Georgia Archives Collection Georgia Colonial and Headright Plat Index
  39. Bryan County Court Abstracts
  40. "United States Census, 1820", database with images, FamilySearch: 16 July 2015, Georgia > Bryan > Not Stated > image 14 of 15; citing NARA microfilm publication M33, (Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration, n.d.)
  41. https://www.georgiaarchives.org/research/1820_land_lottery
  42. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjvnq-nwdTwAhWCPM0KHcyVADwQFjACegQIBRAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwhitlockfamilyassociation.com.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fsources%2Freferences%2FR1064.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1_LzH_lG6M3eZRt4nmdOmX
  43. Letters of Administration on the Estate and Effects of Richard Harvey, Sr
  44. https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/72005245/richard-thomas-harvey
  45. Bryan Cemetery
  46. Bryan County Primitive Baptist Church
  47. Jackson County, Florida: Wills and Estate Index and Probate Record book C pages, 44-49 (lists heirs noted above), 110-111, and 152-153.
  48. "Florida Probate Records, 1784-1990", images, FamilySearch: 20 May 2014, Jackson > Estate index no date > image 27 of 135; county courthouses, Florida.
  49. "Florida Probate Records, 1784-1990", images, FamilySearch: 20 May 2014, Jackson > Estates 1851-1857 vol C > image 33 of 440; county courthouses, Florida.
  50. "Florida Probate Records, 1784-1990", images, FamilySearch: 20 May 2014, Jackson > Estates 1851-1857 vol C > image 69 of 440; county courthouses, Florida.
  51. Find A Grave Memorial 2632592
  52. Tery Bell, Hannah Starling, Mark Richardson, Helen Rice and James Bowen have matches on different chromosomes with Jana Moorhead, Jack Day, Vickie Crawford, Lynette Letcher and Robert Mitchell.
  53. Hannah Starling, Mark Richardson and James Bowen all have matches on different chromosomes with both Terry Byrd and John Byrd.
  54. Hannah Starling, Mark Richardson, Helen Rice and James Bowen have matches on different chromosomes with C. Simmons, who in turn has matches with descendants of William Harvey, Jr. and Margaret Beall.

See also:

Acknowledgments

  • This person was created on 14 September 2010 through the import of 124-DeCoursey.ged.
  • Unsourced family tree handed down to Hannah Starling.
  • Susie Lombardi-Subia family tree - [1]

Registered Researchers

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Discussion

1. Where and when were both Richard and Elizabeth born?
  • On May 9, 2021, with regard to the Virginia issue I wrote: John Morel's Headrights Platts between the years 1757 and 1765 which would have made Elizabeth Morel Harvey's birth in Virginia unlikely... (See discussion in John giving the background of John Morel owning the water rites of the inland rivers which provided the shipping of crops originating from farms different from the fiercely competitive coastal plantations) Where it is certainly true there are branches in my family who came from Savannah and the Carolinas, it's always been my experience that this part of the family was a back Georgia, (Bulloch County) and points west people. They never got themselves so involved with the Slavery issues of the day, but were Evangelical. I think Morel had some idea of controlling the riverways outside the Savannah River, especially as the Salzburgers were so successful at production. 1600 acres of river way is pretty amazing.
  • Helen's Response May 10, 2021 There are a couple of thoughts. What you are posting may be true but I believe more supporting documents are needed. It is well documented that Richard Harvey enlisted in Virginia. According to records and family trees, their first children were born in Virginia at the time of the Revolutionary War. This places Elizabeth in Virginia. If she was not born there, how did she get there? The John you are researching is mentioned in at least 2 references with the 1740 birth date. Where was he born, where did he live and die? Where are documents that confirm who he married and who his children were? Are you sure the headright plats you found belong to the John you are researching or do they belong to the John (or his son John) that owned property in Chatham and surrounding counties including Ossabaw Island. These are things to think about. In addition, I believe you had previously mentioned a possible North Carolina connection to Richard and Elizabeth. Was that eliminated? I agree finding facts from the 1700’s is difficult but there has to be something more to connect the John you are researching to Elizabeth. If I find anything, and I’m still looking too, I’ll let you know. Helen
  • My response It would not have been possible for the owner of the water ways that brought product from inland farms would have created a means for the inland farms to be successful to be from the coastal planters. The planters' whole agenda was to get inland farmers to bend and obey and in fact contribute to the plantations product. The inland farmers (being the Salzburgers) at the time we're talking about were much more profitable than the plantations AND they had the attention of the European world. EVERYBODY was throwing money at the Salzburgers. There would have been no purpose for coastal plantations who were fighting for their lifestyle to make the inland farms MORE profitable. In fact there was a man in Savannah office working for the Georgia Trustees that took the benefits earmarked for the Salzburgers from Europe and surreptitiously sent it to plantation owners. Smarmy. All this is in the Salzburger Study I did for the Southern Colonies Project, but no, there were clearly two separate John Morels and would not have been the same man.

Additionally, what was very cool was 4 Jul 1775 John Morel is Elected to the Provincial Congress of Georgia for the District of Ebenezer. Serves as Captain in the Continental Army (See Image) (This is also on his profile) The reason John Morel was elected to the Provincial Congress was because he was a successful man in Ebenezer, not in Chatham County.

This is important because John Morel would not have been able to have a daughter in Virginia and develop and whole world in Ebenezer.

There is a Morel who came into port and went up to Highgrave Georgia where there was a French Settlement that eventually became part of Ebenezer. AND I've just begun.

The DNA bothers me most, but in the few weeks I've been finding sources, I think there's enough sourcing to show the possibility my John Morel was Elizabeth's father which is every bit as compelling as Helen's unsourced trees.

I believe Elizabeth's Birthplace needs clarification before deciding she (and Richard Harvey) were from Virginia and not Georgia.

  • Where they were born remains unknown and further research is needed. Unsourced family trees and stories have repeated the Virginia story with a few North Carolina’s thrown in. In the 1700’s and other centuries, many women were difficult or impossible to track and we may never be able to resolve where they were born. There is also a possibility there is a marriage record in a courthouse somewhere that has yet to be found or a will naming the family. (HR)
  • Amanda, you also mentioned previously the story about a North Carolina connection and recently finding the story of Harvey traveling to Georgia after the war with Lafayette. Both those stories have been in numerous trees. If. I remember correctly there is another story about Richard, Elizabeth, a slave and others traveling to Georgia. Theses stories might be true or have a grain of truth. I don’t remember any trees that discussed either Richard or Elizabeth being born in Georgia. (HR)
  • (This was also added to the question below.) WikiTree was searched for guidance on what to do instead of changing the wording (or something else that is not proved) in a profile when an origin is disputed. In this link https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Resolving_a_Disagreement is guidance. The following is the wording from the link and the profile of Thomas Burgess https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Burgess-548#Disputed_Origins has different examples on how to proceed: “Insufficient sources and certainty: Sometimes there are insufficient sources to directly prove a fact. Vital records may have been destroyed, or perhaps never existed, requiring analysis of a variety of pieces of information. Resolving conflicting information in the face of insufficient sources is the height of genealogy collaboration on WikiTree. It is our greatest challenge. To facilitate collaboration, consider attaching a G2G discussion to a profile to discuss the evidence. Focus on the content, not on the personality or characteristics of the other member. Here are some examples from G2G: Who was the wife of George Marsh, b ca. 1596? Ideas to resolve duplicates about Susannah, wife of Henry Kingsbury? Who (really) were the wives of William Ball Jr of Virginia? Whether or not agreement can be reached through such a discussion, create a Disputed Origins section at the top of the profile narrative and briefly summarize the issue there. Examples of profiles with Disputed Origins sections: Thomas Burgess, Sr. Robert Andrews [note this is an example of a disputed fact besides origins]”. (HR)
2. <Need to discuss and agree on how and why any proof or source used is considered relevant for Richard's and Elizabeth's Profiles -- how much consideration should we give unsourced family trees for example while considering secondary sources>
  • The most important relevant sources are Wills, military records, photocopies of old family Bible pages, DAR records, birth, marriage or death records, gravestone photos or inscriptions, historical newspaper articles, deeds, historical records especially where they include the ancestor and their family that supports relationships. Unsourced family trees could be relevant if for example, more have the same info, keeping in mind that info could be wrong especially with people copying other trees blindly as on Ancestry. If for example 2/3 have the same info but the remaining 1/3 has variations then the Info from the 2/3 could be used as a strong possibility. This could be documented in the research notes. I have a concern about using DNA as a proof of relationship. It can show relationships to people that have had their DNA tested or possibilities of relationship. However, for someone that died centuries ago, wouldn’t you would need a number of family trees that document the descent from that person in that location and DNA documentation of relationship from people who can confirm direct descent? I have had to change a ancestor when evidence was received that indicated a different person was the ancestor. In that case the DNA had not proved the previous dead (non DNA tested) wrong ancestor was related. Of course, bodies have been dug up for DNA testing..... (HR)
  • Yes indeed we need to find descendants and many of those people don't have trees and if they did, they're not always on Wikitree. This is why we need to find samples from descendants where tests are taken which is why the shell I created will be helpful. Gedmatch will also be helpful and what I'm in the process of doing now. That's why getting the results of the mtDNA was exciting. The DNA can't be dead if we go from mother to daughter as what happened in my branch. (AT)
  • Consideration must also be made to stories that have truth or possible truth and untruth. Take the story of Richard and his brothers traveling South to Georgia after the war with Lafayette. During the war. Richard was under the command of Lafayette. However, Lafayette did not arrive in Georgia until after Richard had died. They both were in Georgia, just at different times. (HR)
  • Secondary sources can be useful but it is critical to research enough to find the ancestors name along with their related family to support what is in unsourced family trees. Unfortunately, that cannot always be found so then you have a lot of possible history, nothing is proved and then the thoughts and possible history goes in research notes. (HR)
  • a) The weight of one's perspective given to a profile must align with surrounding evidence. I could begin by saying generals did not lead every division into battle but usually administrated several divisions from a central point. They couldn't be in all places at one time. We could further say that the reason LaFayette visited Georgia at all was because he had invested something to the Georgian effort during the war. But that's beside the point -- and there is a point here. As sources are scarce in colonial Georgia, we rely more on perspective that predominates a profile and that perspective needs to align with its culture of the time. Let me say the Southern Colonies Project has done an incredible job sussing out the culture and profiles of the Southern Colonies. Elizabeth's realities are also seen in other profiles in Effingham, Bulloch and Bryan counties.

b) Morel(l) is a Huguenot name and there are 3 Morels on record in the colonial south during the 18th century. One was Elizabet Morell in Virginia in 1700 (Too early to be considered) and 2 (both named Peter) arrived and settled in Georgia. One was a planter clearing land and building a house for his family (4 children) in Georgia, immigration, 1733. This one is not the Peter Morel we are considering here. The other was a Weaver who settled in the French Settlement of Highgate Georgia with his wife Martine and son John Anthony Morel and a daughter Marianne. (also 1733) The wife of the French Peter died a month or two after arriving, These are not stories, but on record and are brought to us through reliable sources supported by the Georgian Historical Society. [2] p. 36 #1037

c) Even if we don't want at this point to definitively establish that the John Anthony who settled with his father Peter in Highgate (probably a Huguenot) as being the John Morel that was granted over 1,000 acres of blackwater riverway connecting product from inner Georgia to the coast, beginning in 1757 -- both Morels are recorded in Georgia. So at the very least we can feel as confident as possible at this juncture that Elizabeth was Georgian, we need to delete the first paragraph on Elizabeth's profile and her place of birth changed to Georgia. (AT)

  • WikiTree was searched for guidance on what to do instead of changing the wording (or something else that is not proved) in a profile when an origin is disputed. In this link https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Resolving_a_Disagreement is guidance. The following is the wording from the link and the profile of Thomas Burgess https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Burgess-548#Disputed_Origins has different examples on how to proceed: “Insufficient sources and certainty: Sometimes there are insufficient sources to directly prove a fact. Vital records may have been destroyed, or perhaps never existed, requiring analysis of a variety of pieces of information. Resolving conflicting information in the face of insufficient sources is the height of genealogy collaboration on WikiTree. It is our greatest challenge. To facilitate collaboration, consider attaching a G2G discussion to a profile to discuss the evidence. Focus on the content, not on the personality or characteristics of the other member. Here are some examples from G2G: Who was the wife of George Marsh, b ca. 1596? Ideas to resolve duplicates about Susannah, wife of Henry Kingsbury? Who (really) were the wives of William Ball Jr of Virginia? Whether or not agreement can be reached through such a discussion, create a Disputed Origins section at the top of the profile narrative and briefly summarize the issue there. Examples of profiles with Disputed Origins sections: Thomas Burgess, Sr. Robert Andrews [note this is an example of a disputed fact besides origins]”. (HR)
3. Are there any references or photos attached that do not belong to either Richard or Elizabeth and why?
  • It is my belief they are all appropriate, however, they might need to be rearranged. (HR)
  • a) Helen: I am in fact emphatically encouraging you to practice all the genealogical standards you have just stated. I am saying there is a huge (and I mean huge) amount of work that was established around Elizabeth's profile that points her in a focused direction. This is a solid example of a person that does not have a specific document to stamp her but her world establishes her.

b) My name is on the genetic mtDNA on this profile. I did not arbitrarily pick her profile out of a pile of profiles and decide to attach that mtDNA to her. Wikitree attached me to her. She is not particularly famous. There is no reason for me to be so excited about her particularly. I have released Harvey. Fine he and the Harveys were Virginian. I don't care.

c) I am using sound genealogical sources, I am a trained historian graduated with honors in History of Religions from DePaul University, I was the private executive assistant to a major Corporate attorney who was the managing partner of a large firm here in Chicago for over a decade, I have had Wikitree training and am about to embark on the Tartan trail for MORE training. Barry can contact Southern Project himself and so can you to see that the work I did on the Salzburgers was sound, collaborative, sourced and they are part of our tree and dove tail directly into Elizabeth.

d) I am asking you here Helen to trust me as I trust you.

e) Sources tell us Morel is distinctly Huguenot like "Choy" is Chinese. Read the profiles attached to her father and grandfather to see how the evidence is building. I am in the process of finding a proper Wiki Project to oversee these Morels as they're connected to 16th and 17th Century families. There were only 3 Huguenot Morels that entered into the colonies at that time. 2 of them came into Georgia in 1733. Our Peter is indexed in the Huguenot Society. You did a good job dismissing the Morel from Chatham County from our branch. We're told that during the French religious persecution, one branch of Morels went to England in the 16th Century. Ours went to the Netherlands. Savannah Peter, father of 4 children was a planter when he hit the Georgian shore. The man from the Netherlands was a weaver. It's footnoted in the profile.

f) The one that came into Highgate is sourced and the father and grandfather of Elizabeth Morel.

g) I am working with ftDNA to teach me how to make stronger links between Susannah, Elizabeth and Johanna (McElveen, Harvey and Morel) If she was a Morel, she was Georgian. That's solid. In the near future I will be able to say, (whether or not her name was Morel) that she is part of a line that was Georgian regardless of her name.

h) One of the agreements we made together was that we would not put something in that profile unless 2/3 of us agreed. That one beginning paragraph needs to be removed until 2/3 of us agree she was Virginian. We can always replace the short paragraph and her place of birth if you can come up with proof as strong as mine and I'll change my attitude in a heartbeat.

i) Of course, what you may be saying without saying it in print is that I am not a part of your team. If that's the case, I'd be sad as she is as much my family as yours; but I can put my caveat on Research Notes sign it, date it, add a comment, and move on and accept that there's a blip in the line. At some point its moot as she is part of an open file and I can correct it myself with proper sourcing. Let me know so I will stop wasting all our time.

  • In trying to understand how the mtDNA results are attached on WikiTree, this link was found https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Most_Recent_Common_Ancestor with the following “It's important never to confuse the EKA and MRCA because relationships can only be confirmed back to the MRCA shared by two test-takers. Even though the yDNA or mtDNA presumably matches all the way back to the EKAs that cannot yet be confirmed.”. (HR)
  • a) OK, did I just see that Richard Harvey is part of a name study which is why his date and place of birth is so important. If there is such a study (which there should be) he should be part of it and tagged. I'm not sure how much time I'd have to get involved in that mess and am very respectful of those who took the Harveys on as a study! But there is a lot of room for Richard's first child to not be born until after he left the army in November of 1779. I'd hate to take on more than what's on my plate at this time, but I probably should become more involved in the Harvey study until we can align our profiles.
b) Her biography Martha says that she was born abt 1777 and her sister Rebecca was born in 1780. There is a comfortable space for Richard to be discharged from LaFayette's army in Nov 1779, marry Elizabeth in Georgia and have Martha by 1780, her sister (also an est) born in 1781. As the Harveys don't have records to substantiate the beginnings of their family, I would contribute my sources to theirs and show that the dates would be a normal expectation for the growth of burgeoning families. AND their dates of Richard's discharge gives us a closer idea of when and where Martha was born. AND its beginning to look more and more that their family settled at some point in Ogeechee Georgia per John Morel (Elizabeth's father) acquisition of the Plats for Ogeechee in 1767, though he probably married his wife and had their family after 1752 when he acquired 500 acres of Pipe Maker's Creek. This would mean that Elizabeth was at least between 20-25 years of age when she married Richard and had their first child. (AT)
  • Proposed Section below from WikiTree recommendation for Disputed Origins- for Elizabeth: The wording in number 1 was taken and reworded from Elizabeth’s profile with the exception of some wording about Elizabeth that someone had added to Richard. Note: no previous change history is available on Elizabeth’s profile to identify or give credit to who originally posted. References for #1 to be added after review and before text moved to approved section. (HR)

Biography Issues

Disputed Origins, Parents, Birth Date/Location

Elizabeth’s origins, parents, birth date/location are disputed. Numbers 1 and 2 discusses those differences:

  • 1. For years, according to multiple unsourced family trees, the story has been that Elizabeth was the daughter of John and Hannah (maiden name unknown) Morell or Morrell and was born about 1761 in Albemarle County, Virginia Colony. In most family trees the name Elizabeth is documented with no middle name. Probate and other court records found to date, only document the name Elizabeth Harvey. A few unsourced trees add a name of Margaret for her, however, a middle name was not common when she was born. It is important to note that her last name, parents, birth date and location are not certain and are all based on family stories and unsourced family trees. Consideration is made that her last name might have been different. In Albemarle County, a Moores family was there in 1799 which could provide an alternate spelling for possible research on Elizabeth’s surname. The 1761 birth year is frequently listed in unsourced family trees and is also considered an estimate based on her children’s birth years. There are other unsourced family trees that give North Carolina as a place of her birth. Different family stories tell of the family moving south after the Revolutionary War (Richard Harvey, Sr. enlisted in Virginia and this was verified). The moving south story indicated they lived somewhere north of Georgia. So far, no Wills, marriage records or other published sources have been found that prove or disprove any of these details.
  • 2. Bottom line: The origins, parents, birth date/birth location for Elizabeth remain unknown.

I'm done. The following is my last statement on this matter.

1) Since the origins are unknown - that first paragraph MUST remain blank - saying her origins are in dispute. You do NOT say she was born in Virginia. THAT is blank and HIGHLY contested. THAT will be determined by those more experienced.
2) I have written an email to both of you telling you what I'm doing in the interest of collaboration - which means my input is being added somewhere -- and to further valid historical research. These are open profiles so frankly I can do what I choose as long as I follow protocol.
3) The point is there are things you can do as a genealogist to follow clues for unknown ancestors. That's the fun of Research -- running down clues. A broken record that says repeatedly "Unsourced Family Trees say, x,y,z is NOT historical research. What you do is find Strong evidence that puts more light on the person in question in the place and time.
4) In this case Finding a "John Morel" whose family came into Georgia in 1733 from Europe is a find and a clue and fits in with other WELL SOURCED profiles of this family tree.
5) Finding "John Morel" who bought plats in an area placing Elizabeth's family with the rest of the tree is a Find and a Clue.
6) One of the 1st clues here should be the mtDNA - Considered a source when aligned with a proper paper trail.
7) This profile is no longer any fun for me. Something I felt was collaborative was supposed to be between "distant cousins" which you and I are Helen. Our connection (in fact) is with a common ancestor at this period that you are disputing. But it feels more and more you and your Ancestry Trees are taking ownership of the WHOLE STUDY. You are not sharing. What surprises me is that so many of your profiles are based on solid research - I can't understand why in this one case you're being so adversarial.
8) Nobody said any of this was definitive. Stop saying that. You continue to keep saying its not SURE. AT THIS POINT IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE. BUT if valid sources are on the table that lends clues to a trail - FOLLOW THE BREAD CRUMBS. That's exactly what I'm doing.
9) We would not expect to see too much paper trail in Bulloch, Effingham, and Bryan counties - the most they had was Old Ebenezer Church and THAT was broken when the Torries took it over. This was relevant because for everything outside of Savannah, Ebenezer was IT. Effingham had the largest population in that area. Besides by the early 1800s they were Primitive Baptists - a WHOLE DIFFERENT ANIMAL.
10) You are NOT listening to me or even CONSIDERING what I'm telling you. There's not even a "Well there's some thought Susan's mother was born in Virginia, there's just as much thought she was born in Georgia. The research is presently ongoing." THAT would work. But labeling her as Virginian at this point is down right insulting.
11) The reason I began building the profiles for John Morel's huguenot heritage is because I'm doing another study for my husband and a prominent member of the medieval project who deals with a plethora of unsourced ancestors told me that sometimes research is useful when we come in from the back end...which is what I'm doing. I NEVER EVER EVER CLAIMED it was DEFINITIVE. I am saying evidence is strong that she is Huguenot. I'd even go so far to say that the SOURCES I'm using are stronger than UNSOURCED stories and hearsay. Again, I'm following breadcrumbs! That's what genealogy is all about.
12) Re Genetics: In trying to understand how the mtDNA results are attached on WikiTree, this link was found https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Most_Recent_Common_Ancestor with the following “It's important never to confuse the EKA and MRCA because relationships can only be confirmed back to the MRCA shared by two test-takers. Even though the yDNA or mtDNA presumably matches all the way back to the EKAs that cannot yet be confirmed.”. (HR)
I could NOT believe I saw this! Well, what it did was inspire me to begin a page on genetic profiling (FINDING "COHORTS" perhaps on GEDMATCH WHICH GIVE US POSSIBILITIES NOT YET ON WIKITREE [3]) which will take some time and I don't want to keep returning here only to make sure Elizabeth is being determined based on HEARSAY. Write something collaborative and useful and I'll work with you!!!!. mtDNA contributes much to the ethnicity of the person. It becomes relevant for people who are contested like Elizabeth.

and then it dawned on me. Perhaps you didn't understand that when you make a comparison on Gedmatch, they tell you how far to go to find the common ancestor. In our case it tells us its 7 generations -- which takes us to this connection between Elizabeth and Richard.. You may know this and maybe its my wonky perception of what you mean, but I thought I'd add it in case that was new information for you. If not, ignore it.

H1 (from what I understand at the point of this writing) has two possibilities. One is catalan -- native to northern Spain and southern France. Native being pre-iceage. The other is middle eastern, coming out of the Alps/Himalyas of Turkey - probably Ottoman driven. I am not being precise here and will when I post it, but basically the people that immigrated into Virginia were more British Isles so we'd expect more North Sea and Gaelic/Celt heritage. What this means is Richard Harvey from Virginia most likely married a girl whose family came from France/Spain, not England. This would point to a historian that the French connection probably went to Georgia. I am hoping to make that definitive imminently. Huguenot becomes more and more EVIDENT, NOT DEFINITIVE.
For fun comparisons: K1a3 you might find this article interesting. [4]. Comparing you and me Helen You would be compared with Druzes [5] and H1 with Basques [6]
What is interesting is that the name Morel was given to people who were darker complected -- referring to the Moors which you say is another name possibility.
13) AND FINALLY - it is clear to me that we have gone waaaaayyyyy beyond objective and those with more experience needs to take over these profiles and I can clean up this side of the tree and go on to my husband's study where David would prefer I go. He's REALLY tired of hearing about this...

Moyer-780 17:34, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Issues To Be Resolved

Please add a numbered issue that needs to be resolved, below in this format: ==Issue==

Proposed Resolution:
Open for Vote? (N):
Open Date:
Voting Closed?: (Y):
Closure Date:
Votes (Increase count by 1 when you vote):
Yes:
No:
Approved (Y or N):

1. Change Surname to Morel?

Proposed Resolution: Change Elizabeth's surname to Morel
Open for Vote? (Y):
Open Date: 4 August 2021
Voting Closed?: (N):
Closure Date: 18 Aug 2021
Votes (Increase count by 1 when you vote):
Yes: 0
No: 2
Approved (Y or N):

2. Disputed Origins, Parents, Birth Date/Location

Proposed Resolution:
Open for Vote? (N):
Open Date:
Voting Closed?: (Y):
Closure Date:
Votes (Increase count by 1 when you vote):
Yes:
No:
Approved (Y or N):

3. Do you agree that all discussion text should be moved from the profile page and place it on this page?

Proposed Resolution:
Open for Vote? (N):
Open Date:
Voting Closed?: (Y):
Closure Date:
Votes (Increase count by 1 when you vote):
Yes:
No:
Approved (Y or N):

4. Where and when were both Richard and Elizabeth born?

Proposed Resolution:
Open for Vote? (N):
Open Date
Voting Closed?: (Y):
Closure Date:
Votes (Increase count by 1 when you vote):
Yes:
No:
Approved (Y or N):

5. How and why any proof or source used is considered relevant for Richard's and Elizabeth's Profiles

Proposed Resolution:
Open for Vote? (N):
Open Date
Voting Closed?: (Y):
Closure Date:
Votes (Increase count by 1 when you vote):
Yes:
No:
Approved (Y or N):

6. How much consideration should we give unsourced family trees for example while considering secondary sources?

Proposed Resolution:
Open for Vote? (N):
Open Date:
Voting Closed?: (Y):
Closure Date:
Votes (Increase count by 1 when you vote):
Yes:
No:
Approved (Y or N):

7. Are there any references or photos attached that do not belong to either Richard or Elizabeth and why?

Proposed Resolution:
Open for Vote? (N):
Open Date:
Voting Closed?: (Y):
Closure Date:
Votes (Increase count by 1 when you vote):
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No:
Approved (Y or N):

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