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YDNA Haplogroup R-S23346

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This is a collection of notes and references concerning YDNA Haplogroup R-S23346. It's primarily designed to provide all known information of interest to those with the S23346 SNP, but is especially intended to raise their interest in further yDNA testing, so we can further flesh out the yDNA branches in our particular part of the tree.
My apologies - my writing is often awkward, and I live in hopes of someday finding a friendly editor that can smooth it out, make it flow better.

Contents

News

DNA Test Sales
  • Summer Sale is on at FamilyTree DNA! All DNA tests are on sale, sale ends August 31. Savings look to be $10 to $50 off regular prices, same as last sale. mtDNA Full Sequence test is $139, normally $159. Family Finder (their autosomal DNA test) is $59, normally $79. yDNA Y-111 test is $219, normally $249. yDNA Big Y-700 test is $399, normally $449. yDNA Y-67 upgrade to Big Y-700 test is $259, normally $279. All of these prices are somewhat less than many of us paid!
  • By the way, my offer of $100 still stands! My apologies for being so slow - I'm way behind, and a bit swamped, will get back to this as soon as I can, with more news and updates to add here.
Tests being Taken
  • Exciting! Two upgrades to the Big Y-700 test have been ordered! One by the family of Birger Elofson of Sweden, and one by Craig Ross of Scotland. I believe the Elofson test will create a named haplogroup much closer to me, perhaps even identify a common ancestor to Birger Elofson within 4 to 10 generations. But if it's closest to me, then it's not likely to help the Dutch or Scottish branches. I believe the Ross test will establish a named haplogroup somewhat further back, probably before surnames were in use, but still very helpful. It will probably be especially interesting to a van Den Dool tester and to a Henderson tester, once we find them.
Changes to this Page
  • Added News section, and links to trees

yDNA Trees and Current haplotrails to R-S23346

There are 4 trees listed here, each with the haplotrail to (or near) our terminal SNP S23346. The first 3 are linked, can be clicked on to view their trees.
Note: I define 'haplotrail' as a readable list of SNP's defining the historical trail of haplogroup branches, down to its currently known terminal SNP. It's like a squirrel starting at the trunk of a tree, then climbing out a large branch, then forking onto smaller and smaller branches, until ending up on a twig of the tree. One or more SNP's/mutations define each fork in the branching. It's not necessarily comprehensive, may be only the most notable SNP's, but is constructed to help others recognize well known branches, and therefore use it to assist in comparisons for matching and categorization. (I have highlighted better known SNP's.) Well known categories would be R1b, R-M269, R-U106, and R-Z18.
  • FTDNA - R1b->M207->M173->M343->L754->L389->P297->M269->L23->L51->L151->U106->Z18->Z17->Z372->S5695->L257->Z15->S23346
  • YFull - R1b->L754->L389->P297->M269->L23->L51->L52->L151->U106->Z19->FGC79182->ZP87->Z372->L257->Z8185
  • The Big Tree - R-U106/S21 > Z2265 > Z18 > Z372/S375 > L257/S186
  • Living DNA - R1b->M207->M173->M343->L754->L389->P297->M269->L23->L51->L151->U106->Z19->Z14->Z372->L257
Note 2: Currently, FTDNA is the only one with branches for R-S23346 and its parent Z15. Living DNA does not test below L257. YFull does see S23346 and S25289, but does not yet have any *other* testers with these SNP's. In general, new branches and haplogroups are not assigned until there are at least 2 testers with the same SNP(s). Which is one reason I've written this page - to try to interest more people in testing!

Note 3: SNP names can be very confusing! Unfortunately, multiple labs have discovered many of the SNP's, and named them with their own nomenclature, so many SNP's have multiple names. It would be great if *someone* out there would standardize the names, but I'm afraid we are going to have to live with this situation, as there are numerous scientific papers using one name, and other scientific papers using a different name for the very same SNP. For example, the well known SNP U106 is also known as S21 and M405, and there are papers using each one of those. Worse, haplogroups now use these SNP names, and varying companies and agencies may pick a different SNP or SNP name to define a new haplogroup. That makes it very confusing sometimes, when trying to compare haplotrails. Above, you can see that where FTDNA used Z18, YFull and Living DNA used Z19, its brother SNP. YFull previously used FGC79182a, but now uses ZP87, which is different but may be equivalent to Z17.

Some SNP Detail

Note: estimated ages below are probably out of date, the date is followed by the range of possible dates within a 95 percentile
  • M343 - the mutation most often associated with the start of R1b, thought to start in western or southwestern Asia
  • M269 - basically the start of the populations of Western civilization. Most European and American males are R-M269. ...
  • U106 - often called the Germanic clade, formed long before the Germanic peoples but constitutes many of the northern European and Scandinavian populations. U106 is also known as S21 and M405. Believed to have first formed in a man of the Corded Ware people ... Estimated age: 3022 BC (3699 BC to 2465 BC)
  • Z18 - referred to as the North Sea tribe ? brother SNP of Z19 ... Estimated age: 2380 BC (3079 BC to 1773 BC)
  • Z17, ZP87, FGC79182a - these are considered "phylogenetically equivalent". Z17 and ZP87 are SNP's, FGC79182a represents a pair of YFull identified STR values (DYR73=11 and DYR286=15). FTDNA associates this branch with Z17. YFull previously associated it with FGC79182a, but has changed it to ZP87. Estimated age: 1957 BC (2646 BC to 1358 BC)
  • Z372 - Estimated age: 1603 BC (2211 BC to 1075 BC)
  • L257 - YFull estimated age: about 2900 years old ... Estimated age: 1247 BC (1889 BC to 635 BC)
  • Z8185 - brother SNP of Z8187; YFull estimated age: about 2900 years old ...
  • Z15 - appears to be found in 4 separate haplogroup trees, with a different name in each. It's not yet recognized by YFull or Ytree. ...
  • S23346 - and 7 other SNP's - S25829, BY162704, BY163292, BY161677, BY161301, FT76145, FT178541. These are not yet recognized by YFull or Ytree. The Big Y-500 test only identified S23346 and S25829, the Big Y-700 test identified the other 6 SNP's. ...

Individuals confirmed or expected to have the S23346 SNP

  • Carl Jacob Jacobsen and male descendants, b. 1820 Kristinehamn, Varmland, Sweden, d. 1870 Norway
  • A. Bjälvenäs, Sweden (probable R-S23346, GD = 4 on Y67 test to Rob Jacobson)
  • Birger Elofson, Sweden (probable R-S23346, GD = 6 on Y67 test to Rob Jacobson); test has been ordered!
  • Jan van Den Dool and male descendants, b. 1525 Netherlands
  • Various Scottish Henderson's, USA and Scotland
  • William Ross and male descendants, b. circa 1835 Edinburgh, Scotland, d. circa 1908 Edinburgh, Scotland; test has been ordered!
Note: So far, it appears to be individuals from Scotland, Sweden/Norway, and the Netherlands. The Henderson's have theorized a connection of their Scottish ancestors with the Netherlands, through the trade routes between Scotland and the Netherlands in the 1500's and 1600's. Certainly, in the last 2000 years, there has been considerable commerce, and many migrations and invasions throughout the northern regions, including northern Europe, Scandinavia, and the British Isles. The Vikings had a big hand in that, but they were far from being the only ones. Some of it was peaceful commerce, but much of it was not.

Ages and History of the SNP's

  • Currently, FTDNA is showing S23346 to have 7 brother SNP's - S25289, BY162704, BY163292, BY161677, BY161301, FT76145, FT178541 (Brother SNP is not a real term, but I can't recall what they are usually called. They are all at the same level, on the same branch of the tree, and are not parent or child SNP's.)
  • According to YFull, L257 and Z8185 are thought to be about 2900 years old. Therefore, S23346 and its brother SNP's first occurred roughly 2200 to 2800 years before now.
  • SNP Tracker shows a speculative path for our ancestors (ending up in the North Sea!) - SNP Tracker for R-S23346
  • Phylogenetic Ancestral Tree for marker S23346, by Genetic Homeland - an interesting yDNA chronology, from Homo Erectus to S23346

The Scottish Branch

Currently consists of the Henderson and Ross families
  • The Henderson Family, from It's All Relative website
  • Laura Henderson's Henderson Genealogy
    • Our Hypothetical Henderson Tree - a Work in Progress (also found at URL); has the following quote:
      R1b-U106-S23346
      This designation represents our "deep ancestry." Our line's SNP value is S23346, a signature currently believed to have originated in the Lower Rhine River region (present-day Netherlands) at least 2,000 years ago. A native Dutch tester who shares our SNP can trace his family back to an area near Molenaarsgraaf, where there is an archaeological dig dating back several millennia. (Unfortunately there are not yet any viable DNA tests from the site.) There was a prosperous trading route connecting the Lower Rhine and the area of Perth in Scotland, which could explain why our ancestors emigrated to Scotland from mainland Europe. At this point, we have absolutely no idea when that move occurred. It could have been very recent (at any point bef ca 1600) or it could have occurred more than a millennia ago.
    • WikiTree: James Henderson Sr. (abt. 1632 - bef. 1692) - believed to be the Henderson immigrant that came to America
      Note: It does not appear that any of the Henderson descendants of the Henderson's of Laura's work have posted their yDNA on WikiTree, so no R-S23346 attached to James and his descendants. However, another descendant has posted his, and his yDNA haplogroup is R-cts4299, NOT R-S23346. This is in direct conflict, as the only common clade for both is clear back to P311, the parent of P312 (for cts4299) and U106 (for S23346), and that is something like 5000 years ago. One (or both) of these yDNA haplogroups has to be wrong therefore. When I look up the FTDNA genealogy for the Henderson's, they have only one who took a SNP test and got S23346, but about 10 others who appear to be STR matches to him. That would appear to give the odds to S23346 over cts4299, but is not proof. Our interest here is of course with whoever got the R-S23346 result. Update 2023-08-06: Tester T. H. Henderson, a descendant of James "Isaac" Henderson of Onslow County NC (who matches other descendants of James Henderson of Somerset County MD) took the Family Tree DNA Big Y 700 marker test, resulting in a Terminal SNP of R-FTD11013. R-FTD11013 is downstream of R-U106 as follows: Z2265 > BY30097 > Z18 > FGC79182 > Z17 > Z372 > S5695 > L257 > Z8185 > Z15 > S23346 > S11880 > FTB52606 > FTD19699 > Terminal SNP FTD11013.

The Swedish Branch

Currently consists of the Jacobsen/Jakobsen/Jacobson family, plus those who are STR matches
  • That would be me, Rob Jacobson, the first yDNA tester of the branch, and would include all other males directly descended from Carl Jacob Jacobsen, born in Sweden in 1820, but moved to Norway where he married, had children, and died.
  • But it should also include anyone with a near match on an STR test, plus their male relatives. A. Bjälvenäs has a GD of 4 to me, on the Y67 marker STR test on FTDNA. Birger Elofson has a GD of 6 to me, on the same Y67 test. The FTDNA TiP report indicates about an 80% probability of a common ancestor within 7 to 8 generations for both, and about 95% within 11 generations.

The Dutch Branch

Currently consists of the van Den Dool family
  • Jan van Den Dool - born about 1525 in the Netherlands
  • Cornelis Jansz. van Den Dool - son of Jan
  • Notes about Jan van Den Dool
    • Bij een nakomeling in rechte lijn is Y-DNA Haplogroup R-S23346 aangetoond, een afsplitsing van R1b-U106-Z18-L257. De meest nabije verwanten zijn gevonden in Schotland en Engeland. Ouderdom: mogelijk zou oud als de Klokbekervolkeren. Zie opgraving bij de donk van Molenaarsgraaf, ~2200 voor Chr. Deze plek ligt ongeveer 10 km verwijderd van Den Dool.
    • Google Translation: In a straight line offspring, Y-DNA Haplogroup R-S23346 has been demonstrated, a cleavage of R1b-U106-Z18-L257. The closest relatives have been found in Scotland and England. Old age: could possibly be old as the Klokbeker people. See excavation at the Molenaarsgraaf donk, ~ 2200 BC. This place is approximately 10 km away from Den Dool.
    • Note: I believe that the term 'Klokbeker people' is the Dutch name for the Bell Beaker people, early inhabitants who lived around 4500 years ago.

Further DNA Testing

FTDNA Big Y-700

  • Currently, this is the best known and most popular full yDNA test. It includes extensive coverage of the most useful Y chromosome SNP's, plus over 800 STR's. Their Big Y test results are the basis for the FTDNA yDNA tree, which is probably the most complete of all yDNA trees, with nearly 27000 branches!
  • Unfortunately, NGS (Next Generation Sequencing) tests like the Big Y are more expensive than other DNA tests. FTDNA has other less expensive yDNA tests, their STR (Single Tandem Repeats) tests, and these are good for matching males in recent times, but of little use in establishing accurate haplogroups. STR tests can only predict a general haplogroup for you. It takes a true SNP test to determine your actual haplogroup. The good news though, is that the prices have been coming down, and recently dropped considerably! The regular price now for the full Big Y-700 is $449, down from $649, and that includes the full 111 STR marker test. And if you have already taken an FTDNA yDNA test, then you only pay the upgrade price, also much lower than before. For example, if you have taken the Y67 test, then the upgrade to Big Y-700 price is now $279 (and includes the upgrade to Y111 and 700 other STR's). And if you wait for sales, prices drop even more. The next sale is believed to be around the National DNA Day on April 25, usually lasting through Mother's Day and possibly until Father's Day. Sales usually always occur from Thanksgiving to Christmas too, and especially around Black Friday. To check at any time for your current price, log into your account at FTDNA and check the upgrades offered.
  • So why am I so interested in your taking the Big Y-700? I've taken it, and have results down to R-S23346 (over 2000 years ago), but I cannot advance from there until others test! The tree builders and maintainers at FTDNA, YFull, and others will only add a branch and assign SNP's to it when those SNP's are shared by more than 1 person, and so far, I'm the first and only tester in our corner of the tree. I have something like 25 private variants, not on the tree yet, of which some or most are shared with some of you, that also have the S23346 SNP. I would expect that my Jacobson male cousins will match almost all of them, then create a new branch just 1 to 3 mutations back. I would expect the Swedish matches to match somewhat farther back, and the Henderson's, Ross's, and van Den Dool's to match much farther back. But wherever we separate will create a new fork, a new branch. Your yDNA results will be adding to science, and will expand the yDNA tree. I hope you will consider it, and because it helps me too, in creating these new branches and new haplogroups, please see my offer to help with the cost below.

YSEQ Test for S23346

  • If you aren't ready to spend the money needed for the Big Y-700 test, there's a very simple and cheap way to find out if you belong here, in our very exclusive R-S23346 club! The YSEQ DNA testing company tests single SNP's for $18, and with a positive result for S23346, you will know that most of this page applies to you. You will have a yDNA haplogroup, R-S23346. Because it formed in BC times, you cannot really use it for matching, but it does give you a head start on learning your yDNA, very cheaply. Of course, I would prefer you taking the Big Y-700 test, because it helps the rest of us, and a single SNP test won't help anyone but yourself. But I do understand, we all have multiple priorities and needs and tasks in life. I will hope that if the test is positive, it will increase your interest in further testing, when your budget permits. Do let me know if you are positive though, so I can add you to the list above (with your permission of course). If nothing else, tell us about your most ancient paternal male, likely to be the same yDNA haplogroup as you, and where he lived. This will be very interesting to us, and may also be helpful. If you prefer, you may remain anonymous.

My offer of $100 to help

  • I would like to offer $100 towards the cost of the Big Y-700 test at FTDNA, whether the full test or an upgrade to it, to any qualified person. By qualified, I mean someone who is already proven positive for the S23346 SNP, or is certainly expected to be positive for it, such as the 2 Swedish men above. I don't know how long I'll hold this offer open. I cannot afford to pay for everyone (especially if you ask my relatives)! So I would like to limit this to one person from each lineage.
  • I prefer to use PayPal to transfer the money to you, but I'm open to other ways. I've now learned from FTDNA how to use them for shared payment. It consists of you emailing FTDNA with permission for me to help with the payment, then both of us paying our share of it to them. If you are interested in my assistance, please contact me by email - Rob 104 at jacoserv . com (remove the spaces and replace the 'at' with the @ symbol), and we can discuss methods and instructions.


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Categories: Y-DNA Haplogroup R-Z19