Henry Spencer, was born about 1392 in Badby, Northamptonshire, England, son of Thomas Spencer and Joan, daughter of Richard Pollock, of Kent, lived here.
Henry Spencer of Badby, Esquire, held certain lands and was lessee of the demesne and tithes of Badby under the Abbey of Evesham in the reign of Henry VI, and also during the reign of Edward IV, from 1451 to 1477.
Beginning 1595, it was claimed that Henry Spencer was the son of Thomas Despencer. This, along with a number of other false pedigrees, was refuted by Horace Round in his 1901 Studies in Peerage and Family History.
Round describes the Spencer pedigree as, “a typical case of the Heralds' College providing a family, when it has acquired wealth, with arms to which it is not entitled on the strength of a pedigree concocted for the purpose”.
The November 1902 edition of The Ancestor had some fun with the Spencer family's fake pedigree, describing them as, "that pushful house of shepherd kings" -- referring to the well-known origin of the family's wealth.
In a more gentle tone, the March 1996 edition of Soul Search sadly noted that the forged pedigree, "obscures the real achievement of the Spencers of Althorpe. Alone, perhaps among the English nobility, the Spencers owed their riches and their rise not to the favour of a king or to the spoils of monasteries, nor even to a fortune made in trade, but to successful farming."
Beginning with Henry, "de" was said to be omitted from the Spencer surname. But this may not be correct, since the connection between the DeSpencer and Spencer lines was refuted by John Horace Round in Peerage Studies and Allied Families. To demonstrate, note the following book excerpts and sources.
Source: Collin, A. (1785). Peerage of England, Vol.1 with Addenda by Sir Egerton Brydeges, K.J., 1812. NYC: AMS Pres Inc. 1970. pp. 382.
Thomas, the eldest son and heir of Nicholas, was father (g) of HENRY SPENCER, of Badby in com. Northampton, Esq. as appears by a (h) receipt (i), dated 13 Henry VI, for subsidies then paid to the King. Which HENRY took to wife Isabel, daughter and coheir of Henry Lincoln, from whom proceeded four sons, John, Thomas, William and Nicholas; and died about (k) 16 Edward IV, his last will and testament bearing date 1476, wherein he appoints his sons, John and Thomas, executors, and Isabel his wife overseer. The seal affix had the arms the family now bear, viz, quarterly in the first and third, a fret, over all, on a bend, three Escallops (l). He was succeded by his eldest son.
(l) If this fact be ascertained, it is a very stong case. In the above, Collins' himself doubts the connection of Henry, son of Thomas, son of Nichols, son of Sir John le Despencer, son of Geffrey le Despencer, son of Geffrey le Despencer, son of Thurstan le Despencer, son of Almaric le Despencer, son of William le Despencer, son of Robert le Despencer, who came with William the Conqueor in 1066.
(My notes: No where else in this Volume, Vol. 5 or Vol. 7 do we seen any mention of this Henry and his wife Isabel.
Source: The Worthies of Warwickshire, who lived between 1500 and 1800, by Frederick Leigh Colville, M.A., printed by Henry T. Cooke and Sons, London: J.R. Smith, Soho Square, prefaced by Lee Wooton, December, 1869.
The history of the SPENCERS' begins on page 706 with Sir John Spencer (d.1522) of Snittenfield, later of Wormleighton and Hodell and Althorp. The lineage in this volume descends to Henry Spencer, 3rd Lord Spencer, and 1st Earl of Sunderland. He succeeded his father, Sir Robert Spencer, 1st Lord Spencer (d.1627 Wormleighton).
Sir Henry succeeded his father in 1637, and died at the Battle of Newbury in 1643 .
In his disertation, Round (n.d.) attempts to disprove the connection between the Le De Spencer and Spencer lines. He mentions where:
At that time no pretension was made to a descent from the Despencers or of any relationship to the Earls of Winchester and Gloucester, nor was there the least similitude in the arms.
In 1595, Clarencieux Lee made a pedigree for the then Sir John Spencer of Wormleighton and Althorpe. In it, the descent is close to Dugdale's record. He professes to have complied it from diverse records, registers, wills, and other good sufficient proofs which he carefully researched, and in his character of Clarencieux King of Arms he confirms and allows it officially. Whatever proofs he ... examined, I confess that I cannot give implicit credit to his work".
On pps 325 and 326 we find: "One must repeat that Lee's deeds and persons may be genuine, but that he connected and combined them at his own sweet will, and that his wife's name was Isabel; for, although it has been supposed that there is now no evidence for this Henry, I have found Henry Spencer of Badby", with Isabel (Lincoln) his wife, occurring in 1468.
With this, we wonder where Henry Spencer came from. How do we make the connection between him and John Spencer of Bedfordshire? Is this all speculation, or can it be proven? Is anyone pursuing this? I myself am trying via various Bulletin Board Systems and the Internet to make the connection, and hopefully in the near future will succeed in doing so. But I do believe we can put to "rest" the connection between the le Despencer line and our Spencer line, and concentrate on finding Henry's whereabouts and his ancestors.
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On 4 Apr 2017 at 21:01 GMT Spencer Stucki wrote:
On 4 Apr 2017 at 21:01 GMT Spencer Stucki wrote:
On 9 Aug 2016 at 15:18 GMT Robert Spencer wrote:
This is just an update which may provide a clearer date range for the birth of Henry Spencer of Badby, Northamptonshire. According to a book by Gary Boyd Roberts, "Ancestors of American Presidents", Roberts, 1995, the date given for Henry's birth is c. 1420, which now seems to be quite off. If this is the same person as referred to in his book, then the deed below dated to 12 Nov 1430, seems to suggest he is at least 10 years older. Caution: I have not seen the book myself, the date I quote is from Norris Taylor's website, referring to the dates given in the book, while he was comparing various charts. Perhaps someone has a copy of same and can confirm the 1420 date or correct me.
I doubt Henry Spencer was 10 years old when he appears in this deed.
Henry Spenser of Badby CP 25/1/179/94, number 58. Link: Image of document at AALT County: Northamptonshire. Place: Westminster. Date: The day after St Martin, 9 Henry VI [12 November 1430]. Parties: Thomas Mollesley, William Byfeld' of Couentre, draper, Hugh Hychecok' of Kyrkeby, John Mollesley of London', Henry Spenser of Badby and Thomas, son of Thomas Marche, querents, and John Waundell' of Kyllesby, deforciant. Property: 1 messuage and 1 shop in Dauentre. Action: Plea of covenant. Agreement: John Waundell' has acknowledged the tenements to be the right of William, as those which William, Thomas, Hugh, John Mollesley, Henry and Thomas have of his gift, and has remised and quitclaimed them from himself and his heirs to Thomas, William, Hugh, John Mollesley, Henry and Thomas and the heirs of William for ever.
Warranty: Warranty. For this: Thomas, William, Hugh, John Mollesley, Henry and Thomas have given him 20 marks of silver.
Henry Spencer b. before 1410, he died in 16 Ed. IV (4 Mar 1475/76)= Isabel Lincoln - o.b. 18 Ed IV ( 1478/79)
He obtained a lease of tithes from Evesham Abbey for land at Badby in 20 Hen. VI.- (1441-1442) he was possibly educated at Evesham.
On 9 Aug 2016 at 15:14 GMT Robert Spencer wrote:
he and his brother Thomas were granted arms, and witnessed a grant in 1504. He purchased Wormleighton in 1506. ... He had only 2 sons , one dying young.
2. Thomas Spencer d. 10 H 7 ( 1518/19) source: pre-1595 diagram Spencer pedigree by named "E S" Poet" : Proven dates as followed: On May 26, 1504 he and his brother John were granted arms, and witnessed a grant in 1504
Son# 4 Nicholas Spencer he died ( d.s.p) meaning no children.
On 9 Aug 2016 at 15:13 GMT Robert Spencer wrote:
Son# 3 William Spencer of Rodburn, Warwicks. (b. c. 1444 = Elizabeth Empson (b. c. 1448), sister of Sir Richard Empson, Speaker of the House of Commons, she was of Neston-Eston- dau. of (Sir. Peter Empson lawyer & kt., who d. 1473 ,fls. 1444). William had 2 sons: 1. Sir. John Spencer I, ( b. c. 1470) of Snitterfield , Hodnell and Wormleighton. co. Warwick -kt. 14 Apr 1522 (bur. at Great Brington, co. Northampton) = Isabel Graunt, of Snitterfield. (b. c. 1474; bur. at Great Brington, co. Northampton), dau. (and hrss.?) of Walter Graunt, of Snitterfield, co. Warwick, by his wife ..... Rudding, dau. and hrss. of Humphrey Rudding, of Droitwich, co. Worcester Proven dates as followed: In 1497 he witnessed a deed with a non-armorial seal , on May 26, 1504..continued...post #7
On 9 Aug 2016 at 15:08 GMT Robert Spencer wrote:
The dates and facts for his sons and grandsons rule out the old theory.
Son # 1: John Spencer, oldest and heir of Henry, had 4 children ( but only one son) "
1. Thomas Spencer of Hodnell, co. Warwick (b. c. 1493) (mentioned in Will of his father as only heir in the will of 1486, but was not to be his heir if no male issue at time of his death which we know to be 1498 as his 3 sisters inherited all his lands). Thomas he died without issue . ** Male line Ends.
Son# 2 Thomas Spencer = Margaret Smith of Wold. He had only one son: William Spencer, of Badby and he had only 2 sons: 1. Thomas Spencer, of Badby, co. Leicester, and Everdon, co. Northampton, d. will probated 22 August 1576. 2. John Spencer, of Tame, co. Oxford, mar. ..... Wilmore, dau, of Richard Wilmore
On 9 Aug 2016 at 15:05 GMT Robert Spencer wrote:
From Even's History of Badby he says that the son William Spencer of Badby, died August 17, 1576, which is noted in Baker's History, died the same year, but must have died after his father inthe same year. So from this we can deduce that Henry must have died prior to August 1576. so we should list him as such. Henry Spencer of Daventry and Badby, born ( between 1405-1410) d. in the first half of the year 1476 at age range of 66-71 ), witnessed numerous land transfer deeds, the earliest dated to 1430. Now lets discuss the sons of Henry in depth: This will detail , how it is impossible for the Spencer's of Bedfordshire, of our line could descend from Henry Spencer. But Henry could be from a common ancestor.
On 9 Aug 2016 at 15:03 GMT Robert Spencer wrote:
Now from Collins we can see that Henry Spencer died in abt. 1466 , his will bearing a date bearing the date of 1476, probably as proved in that year. WE know Henry's earliest land charter date that he witnessess is dated 1430. fromthis we know he must be at least 20 years of age in 1430. So Henry was born in 1410 or earlier and died in 1476, meaning he was at least 66 or more. Now some early researches state he was born in 1392, if this is so then he would be 84 years old. I suppose this is possible but, if our Thomas Spencer of Eaton Socun is to be his father then he should not be born so early.
On 9 Aug 2016 at 15:01 GMT Robert Spencer wrote:
Now from Collins we see this: Source: Collin, A. (1785). Peerage of England, Vol.1 with Addenda by Sir Egerton Brydeges, K.J., 1812. NYC: AMS Pres Inc. 1970. pp. 382.
Thomas, the eldest son and heir of Nicholas, was father (g) of HENRY SPENCER, of Badby in com. Northampton, Esq. as appears by a (h) receipt (i), dated 13 Henry VI, for subsidies then paid to the King. Which HENRY took to wife Isabel, daughter and coheir of Henry Lincoln, from whom proceeded four sons, John, Thomas, William and Nicholas; and died about (k) 16 Edward IV, his last will and testament bearing date 1476, wherein he appoints his sons, John and Thomas, executors, and Isabel his wife overseer. The seal affix had the arms the family now bear, viz, quarterly in the first and third, a fret.
On 9 Aug 2016 at 14:59 GMT Robert Spencer wrote:
From A Short History of Badby by A.E.Evens c: 1940. Henry Spencer, son of Thomas Spencer and Joan, daughter of Richard Pollock, of Kent, lived here. Henry Spencer of Badby, Esquire, held certain lands and was lessee of the demesne and tithes of Badby under the Abbey of Evesham in the reign of Henry VI., and also in the reign of Edward IV, from 1451 to 1477. a branch of this family removed to Everdon. The death of William Spencer of Badby and Everdon on August 17, 1576, is noted in Baker's History.
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