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John St John KB (abt. 1465 - bef. 1525)

Sir John St John KB
Born about in Bletsoe, Bedfordshire, Englandmap
Ancestors ancestors
Husband of — married 1483 in Langstone, Walesmap
Descendants descendants
Died before in Bletsoe, Bedfordshire, Englandmap
Profile last modified | Created 23 May 2012 | Last significant change: 23 Oct 2020
19:47: Traci Thiessen edited the Biography for John St John KB (abt.1465-bef.1525). (removed aristo sticker; mcps) [Thank Traci for this]
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John St John is a descendant of a Magna Carta Surety Baron (see text).
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John Saint John is in a trail badged by the Magna Carta Project to surety baron Henry de Bohun (see text below).

Contents

Biography

John Saint John, K.B., of Bletsoe, Keysoe, Riseley, and Sharnbrook, Bedfordshire, Paulerspury, Northamptonshire, Ashmore, Dorset, etc., Sheriff of Bedfordshire and Buckinghamshire (1501-2, 1515-16)[1]

Father: John Saint John, Esq.,[2] son of Oliver St John, Knt., and his wife Margaret Beauchamp.[3]
Mother: Alice Bradshaugh, daughter of Thomas Bradshagh.[1]
Wife: Sibyl, daughter of Morgan ap Jenkin and his 2nd wife Margred, daughter of Dafydd Matthew, Knt.[4] "Sibyl (or Margaret)";[4] also shown as "Margred"[5] - see additional information below.
married 1483, Langstone, Monmouthshire[citation needed][6][7]
Children: John and Sibyl had three sons and five daughters.[1]
Sons
  1. John St John, Knt., son and heir, born before 1495, married (1) Margaret Waldegrave, (2) Anne Neville[8]
  2. Oliver St John, Knt.[1]
  3. Alexander St John , Esq., married Jane Dalison (or Dalyson, Dallison)[9]
Daughters
  1. Elizabeth St John, married Thomas Rotheram, Knt.[1]
  2. Alice St John, married Henry Parker, Knt., 10th Lord Morley[1]
  3. Margaret St John, married Thomas Gamage, Knt., of Coity, Glamorgan[1]
  4. Sybil St John, married Robert Kirkham, Knt.[1]
  5. Catherine (or Katherine) St John, married (1) Griffith ap Rhys (or Ryce), Knt., (2) Peter Edgecombe, Knt.[1]
Died: "Sir John Saint John left a will dated 22 March 1524/5, proved 23 May 1525... requesting burial in the chapel of St. Edmund on the north side of the church of Bletsoe, Bedfordshire."[1]

Research Notes

Knight Bachelor - 1497 June 17 before the Battle of Blackheath. (Name recorded as John Seint John).[10]

Occupation: John, Lord of Fonmon Castle, Glamorgan, Wales[citation needed][11]

Estimating Dates

John became Sheriff of Bedfordshire in 1501, a position requiring not only physical vigor but mature judgment, so assuming he was age 30 at the time, his birth year would be 1471.

He was a knight Bachelor in 1497 before the Battle of Blackheath. If he were aged 25 at the time, his birth year would be 1472.

His children are shown [by Lewis, but not sourced[12]] to be born beginning in 1480.[6] This would suggest a marriage year of 1479, and if he were 21 at the time, a birth of 1458. An age of 25 at his marriage would place his birth year at 1453.

The birth year [currently was] shown on WikiTree [as] 1450. While there is no documentation for this year, it is not unreasonable if the children's dates are approximately correct. [Except they are not.[6] Therefore, the 1450 birth year guess was changed to "about 1465" (closer to the 1471/2 estimates but not close enough to trigger database errors of "father too young", but making 1462 an unlikely birth year for his wife, Sibyl).]

Marriage to Margred/Sibyl

Analysis by Jack Day, October 2016.

John St. John married Margred ferch Morgan[5]
The name Sibyl is of Anglo-Norman extraction, while Margred is Welsh. A reasonable surmise would be that her birth name was the Welsh Margred, but when she began to move in English circles, she adopted the name Sibyl.
Sir John married "Sibyl (or Margaret) ferch Morgan ap Jenkin ap Philip, daughter of Morgan ap Jenkin ap Philip, Esq., of Langstone, Monmouthshire, by his 2nd wife, Margred, daughter of Dafydd Matthew, Knt."[1]
Sir John St. John of Bletneshoe, Knight, sonne & heire m. Sibell, daugher of [Rice ap] Morgan ap Jenkyn ap Philippe. Father of Sir John St. John of Bletneshoe, Knight, sonne & heire. m. Margaret, dau of Sir William Walgrave of Smallbridge (Buers St. Maryes) in com. Suffolk, Knight. Liaison with Anne, dau of Thomas Nevell, of Cotterstock in com. Northampton 2 sonne of William Nevell of Holte in Com. Lester.[13]
Margred ferch Morgan had a sister Elizabeth, born to Morgan's first wife Elsbeth ferch Sir Richard Vaughan. Elizabeth married Thomas ap Lewys (his sister married John ap William Herbert).[14]

Sources

  1. 1.00 1.01 1.02 1.03 1.04 1.05 1.06 1.07 1.08 1.09 1.10 Douglas Richardson. Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 5 vols, ed. Kimball G. Everingham (Salt Lake City: the author, 2013), volume IV, pages 533-535 SAINT JOHN 16, 17.
  2. Esq., not K.B. (from an update to information published in Richardson's Royal Ancestry IV:533 SAINT JOHN 16, posted by Richardson in 2014: see details on John St John, Esq's profile).
  3. Richardson, Royal Ancestry, IV:523-536 SAINT JOHN.
  4. 4.0 4.1 Douglas Richardson. Magna Carta Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 4 vols, ed. Kimball G. Everingham, 2nd edition (Salt Lake City: the author, 2011), volume III, pages 478-479 SAINT JOHN 12.
  5. 5.0 5.1 Research of Peter Clement Bartrum, The Bartrum Project: Notes for St John 1
  6. 6.0 6.1 6.2 Dates for the children previously listed in this profile were sourced to Richardson, but the only birth date that Richardson gives for any of his children is "before 1495" for his "son and heir", John (Royal Ancestry, I:384-387 BLETSOE 18 [John], III:56 GAMAGE 18 [Margaret], IV:534 SAINT JOHN 18 [Alexander], IV:533 SAINT JOHN 17 [others]).
  7. Her father is described as "of Langstone, Monmouthshire", but Richardson does not mention where, or when, they married (Royal Ancestry, IV:533 SAINT JOHN 17).
  8. Richardson, Royal Ancestry, I:384-387 BLETSOE 18.
  9. Richardson, Royal Ancestry, IV:534 SAINT JOHN 18.
  10. Knights of England (page 29).
  11. Statement from a merged profile.
  12. Sir John St. John, "Our Royal, Titled, Noble, and Commoner Ancestors and Cousins" (website, compiled by Mr. Marlyn Lewis, Portland, OR), accessed 2 August 2019.
  13. Frederick Augustus Blayden, Ed. St. John of Bletsoe; The Visitations of Bedfordshire, 1566, 1582, 1634. London, 1884. Pages 52-55 https://archive.org/stream/visitationsofbed1921harv#page/n72/mode/1up Accessed Dec 16, 2015.
  14. Cydifor Fawr 16 chart posted by The Bartrum Project
  • Richardson, Douglas. Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 5 vols, ed. Kimball G. Everingham. Salt Lake City: the author, 2013. See also WikiTree's source page for Royal Ancestry.
  • Richardson, Douglas. Magna Carta Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 4 vols, ed. Kimball G. Everingham. 2nd edition. Salt Lake City: the author, 2011. See also WikiTree's source page for Magna Carta Ancestry.
See also:
  • Shaw, William Arthur & Burtchaell, George Dames, The Knights of England. A complete record from the earliest time to the present day of the knights of all the orders of chivalry in England, Scotland, and Ireland, and of knights bachelors, incorporating a complete list of knights bachelors dubbed in Ireland (1906)
  • Weis, Frederick Lewis. The Magna Charta Sureties, 1215, 4th ed., Baltimore, MD: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1991

Acknowledgements

Click the Changes tab to see edits. Thank you to everyone who contributed to this profile.

Magna Carta Project

John St John KB appears in Magna Carta Ancestry in a Richardson-documented trail from Gateway Ancestors Elizabeth, Thomas and John Boteler/Butler to Magna Carta Surety Baron Henry de Bohun (vol. I, pages 218-220 BLETSOE). The trail from Elizabeth to Bohun was badged by the Magna Carta Project in September 2019 by Noland-165 and Thomas and John's profiles were badged in 2020. The trail is outlined in the Magna Carta Trails section of Elizabeth Boteler's profile.
See Base Camp for more information about Magna Carta trails. See the project's glossary for project-specific terms, such as a "badged trail".




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Comments: 9

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St John-478 and St John-158 appear to represent the same person because: Birth about the same; marriage date the same, wife the same, death the same. Same person. The two Morgan wives will then need merging.
posted by David Cooper
St. John-579 and St John-478 appear to represent the same person because: One empty profile is better than two!
posted on St John-478 (merged) by David Cooper
Source: Douglas Richardson. Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 5 vols, ed. Kimball G. Everingham (Salt Lake City: the author, 2013), volume IV, page 534 SAINT JOHN 18.

Alexander Saint John, 3rd son. He was a legatee in the 1509 will of William Morgan, Doctor of Law. He was a legatee and named one of the executors in the 1525 will of his father.

This profile is under review as part of a trail identified by the Magna Carta Project, from Elizabeth (Butler) Claiborne (Boteler-112) to Henry de Bohun (Bohun-7). Gordon Warder Jr Warder-49
posted by Gordon Warder Jr
Richardson's Magna Carta Ancestry shows him as K.B. (Knight of the Bath), not Knt. (Knight Bachelor). His son is Knt., but born 1495, so he's not the John St John listed as Knight Bachelor in 1497.
posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
The Magna Carta Project is reviewing and enhancing all the profiles between Magna Carta Sureties and Gateway Ancestors. I'll be working on the trail between Henry de Bohun and Elizabeth (Boteler) Claiborne which includes this profile. I appreciate all the work that has already been done to this profile and look forward to any additional contributions we can make to it.
posted by Jack Day
Category: Battle of Blackheath
posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
St. John-68 and St John-158 appear to represent the same person because: I believe these profiles are intended to be for the same person. The death dates differ but are not incompatible (neither are the ones for his son John). And nothing in the Sibyl Unknown profile rules it out as a match for Sibyl ferch Morgan (Morgan-396).
posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett