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Alice (Unknown) Hoar (abt. 1620 - abt. 1696)

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Alice Hoar formerly [surname unknown]
Born about in Englandmap
Daughter of [father unknown] and [mother unknown]
[sibling(s) unknown]
Wife of — married in Concord, Middlesex, Massachusettsmap
Descendants descendants
Died about in Concord, Middlesex, Massachusettsmap [uncertain]
Unknown-356354 created 18 Feb 2017 | Last modified
This page has been accessed 212 times.

Categories: Puritan Great Migration.

The Puritan Great Migration.
Alice (Unknown) Hoar migrated to New England during the Puritan Great Migration (1620-1640).
Join: Puritan Great Migration Project
Discuss: pgm

Contents

Biography

Research Notes

ALICE, WIFE OF JOHN HOAR, WAS CERTAINLY NOT THE DAUGHTER OF JOHN LISLE
Work in progress - Joe Cochoit
A number of older genealogies state that the Alice who married John Hoar was a daughter of daughter of John Lisle by his wife Alice Beaconshaw. It turns out there is no evidence to support this, a great deal of evidence contradicting this, and is chronologically impossible.
The most important point is that there is no contemporary evidence of any kind that John Lisle had a daughter Alice, and certainly no evidence that he had a daughter married to John Hoar.
John Lisle, the supposed father of Alice Hoar, was married twice. His first marriage was to Elizabeth Hobart in February 1631/2. She died in childbirth 15 March 1633 giving birth to their son William who also died soon after. There is almost no possible room for any other children by this first marriage and the Visitations give but a single child (William) by this first marriage. [1] The earliest any other child could have been born would have been about 1632. Given that John and Alice Hoar were certainly married having children by 1648 and probably by 1645, it is chronologically impossible for John Lisle to have been the father of Alice.
John Lisle married as his second wife Alice Beaconshaw in 1636.[2] Again it is chronologically impossible for any child of this marriage to have married John Hoar and start having children in 1645.
Alice (Beaconshaw) Lisle | left a will dated 1682 in which she names her children including daughters and children by her daughters. She did not name a daughter Alice.
The surviving children of John Lisle and Alice Beaconshaw fought for and eventually obtained a reversal of the attainder against John Lisle. No where was a daughter Alice mentioned as she certainly would have been.

Name

Name: Alice Unknown
She is often said to be Alice Lisle, daughter of John Lisle by Alice Beaconshaw. This is incorrect. Her maiden name, origins, and parents are unknown.

Birth

Born: Between 1620 and 1625.
Estimated dates based on her husband's estimated birth date of about 1619 and her first child being born around 1646 to 1648.

Marriage and Children

Married: John Hoar, about 1645, probably in Scituate where he resided from 1645 to 1650.
Estimated date based on birth of children.
Their daughter Mary was married in 1668 and so is estimated to have been born about 1648; son Daniel was born in 1650; Joanna was almost certainly born in Scituate about 1646. [3] These dates make the most likely marriage date as about 1645.
Children of John and Alice Hoar: [4] [3]
None of the children have known recorded birth or baptismal dates.
  1. Joanna Hoar, She is estimated to have been born at 1646, based on her siblings being born in 1648 and 1650. She married Ezra Morse on 18 February 1670/1 in Dedham, Norfolk, Massachusetts.
  2. Mary Hoar. She is estimated to have been born about 1648, based on her marriage date. She married Benjamin Graves on 21 October 1668 in Concord, Middlesex, Massachusetts.
  3. Daniel Hoar. Born 1650.
  4. Elizabeth Hoar. Born about 1652, estimated date based on birth of siblings and marriage date. She married Jonathan Prescott on 23 December 1675 in Watertown, Middlesex, Massachusetts.

Death

Died: 5 June 1696 in Concord, Middlesex, Massachusetts.
Alice Hoar ye wife of mr Jn° Hoar her Husband dyed June ye 5th day 1696. [5]

Common Errors to Avoid

Incorrect parents: It is commonly said, both in print and on the internet, that Alice is a daughter of John Lisle by his wife Alice Beaconshaw. This is incorrect. John Lisle did have a daughter Bridget who married John Hoar's brother, and the statement was made without evidence that John Hoar married Bridget's sister. This is disproved by the fact that it is chronologically impossible - any daughter of John Lisle would have had to of been born after 1636 while John Hoar and his wife Alice were married and having children by 1648. There are also a large of records relating to Alice (Beaconshaw) Lisle, and none of them mention a daughter Alice. Her parents are unknown.
Incorrect birth dates: Common birth dates of 1636, 1637, 1647 etc. are all based on the incorrect assumption that she was a daughter John Lisle. Given that her husband was born about 1619, and that she was probably married by 1645, the best estimate of her birth is between 1620 and 1625.

Sources

Footnotes and citations:
  1. Rylands, W. Harry ed. Pedigrees from the Visitations of Hampshire...1530, 1575, 1622 with additions. (London: Harleian Society Visitation Series vol. 64, 1913):53. Archive.org LINK
  2. Note: John Lisle and Alice Beaconshaw said to have been married on 23 October 1636 but source for this statement not found).
  3. 3.0 3.1 New England Historical and Genealogical Register vol. 110 no. 3 (1956):216-219. Joanna Hoar, Wife of Ezra Morse of Dedham, Mass., by G. Andrews Moriarty.
  4. New England Historical and Genealogical Register vol. 53 no. 2 (April 1899):186-198. The Ancestry of the Hoar Family in America, cont. from page 101, by George Frisbie Hoar.
  5. Concord. Massachusetts Births, Marriages and Deaths 1635-1850. (Boston: The Town, 1895).
    Archive.org LINK Books.Google.com HathiTrust.org LINK
Source list:




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DNA Connections
It may be possible to confirm family relationships with Alice by comparing test results with other carriers of her mitochondrial DNA. However, there are no known mtDNA test-takers in her direct maternal line. It is likely that these autosomal DNA test-takers will share DNA with Alice:

Have you taken a DNA test for genealogy? If so, login to add it. If not, see our friends at Family Tree DNA.



Collaboration
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  • Public Q&A: These will appear above and in the Genealogist-to-Genealogist (G2G) Forum. (Best for anything directed to the wider genealogy community.)

On 19 Feb 2017 at 05:25 GMT Helen (Coleman) Ford wrote:

NB re marriage date of Alice Beaconsawe and John Lisle, for which no evidence at present. Cannot have been before July 1636.

The will of William Bond, her grandfather was written on 6th July 1636 . He makes a bequest of £20 to his granddaughters Alice and Elizabeth Beaconsawe to be given within 6 months of them reaching 21 or on the day of their marriage. National Archives cat ref

On 18 Feb 2017 at 17:02 GMT Joe Cochoit wrote:

Her LNAB is not Lisle. Please read the profile and the G2G threads before merging.

On 18 Nov 2016 at 00:38 GMT Joe Cochoit wrote:

Hi Robin, Thank you for your response Can you please respond in the GTG Thread regarding Alice Hoar. It will be easier to discuss there.

What you have posted is a copy-paste from an SGM discussion. It is entirely wrong and misleading. I have looked at all the sources mentioned and none of them actually say Alice's LNAB was Lisle. Regardless, none of them are contemporary. It is absolutely proven that Alice cannot be a daughter of John Lisle.

On 17 Nov 2016 at 15:31 GMT Robin Wood wrote:

Alice Lisle was indeed the daughter of Sir John Lisle and Lady Alicia Beacomsawe

Here are sources on Alice LISLE and she was the daughter of Sir John LISLE and Lady Alicia Becomsawe.

According to the New England Families Genealogical&Memorial--she indeed was the wife of John Hoar. The New England Families G&M state that Alice Lisle--sister of Bridget Lisle--Bridget married Leonard Hoare and Alice Lisle married John Hoare. John and Leonard were brothers. John Hoare was a lawyer and it mentions that Alice was the daughter of Lord John Lisle, president of the High Court of Justice, Lord Commissioner of the Great Seal who drew the indictment and sentence of King Charles I and was murdered at Lausanne--August 11, 1664. And Lady Alice Lisle the mother of Alice Lisle Hoare was beheaded. It mentions the children of John Hoar and Alice Lisle--Elizabeth married Jonathan Prescott, Mary married Benjamin Graves

Also Alice is listed in The Lineage and Family Records of Alfred Wyman Hoar and his Wife Josephine Jackson, Eagle Printing Company, Delano, Minn 1898

Alice is also listed in the Ancestors of David Eyre--Publication Oct 26, 2000

Alice is also listed in the Ancestry World Tree--Dec 14, 2000

Alice is listed in the Pioneers of Massachusetts, A Descriptive List Drawn from Records of Colonies, Towns and Churches and other Comtempraneous Documents. Author: Charles Henry Pope Published 1900--originally published in Boston, Massachusetts--Reprinted by Genealogical Publishing Company, Inc Baltimore, Maryland, 1998

Alice is listed in the Watertown Genealogies--Genealogies of Families and Descendants of the Early Settlers of Watertown, Massachusetts, including Waltham and Weston, to which is appended with the Early History of the Town with Maps and Notes--Second Edition with a Memoir of the author, Horatio Gates Jones--Two volumes in one--Author Henry Bond Published by the N. E. Historic-Genealogical Society for the Benefit of the "Bond Fund" 1860

Alice is listed in the Concord, Massachusetts Vital Records Title: Concord, Massachusetts: Births, Marriages, and Deaths 1635-1850 Publication:Concord, Massachusetts--Printed by the Town 1895 Date: May 6, 2002 Repository: Name Schusterman-Benson Library

Alice is listed in the Ancestral Files of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints July 1996 Family History Library 35 N. West Temple Street. Salt Lake City, Utah 84150 USA

John Hoare and Alice Lisle were married in England-- Families Directly Descended from all the Royal Families of Europe Volume I Source: Colonial Ancestors

I found a record on her in Moyles Court--Alice Lisle was born 1631 and was not Christened until 1634. It was nothing for girls to marry at 13 or 14 at that time, but she didn't have ... Mary Hoar until 1648 and she would of been 17. And it listed her father as Sir John Lisle and mother Lady Alicia "Alice" Beacomsawe

On 16 Nov 2016 at 21:40 GMT Joe Cochoit wrote:

See notes on profile. Her LNAB needs to be changed to Unknown.

On 15 Oct 2015 at 23:11 GMT Vic Watt wrote:

John Hoar/Hoare married an Alice. Some old genealogies (and WikiTree) show her as Alice Lisle. I can find no evidence for her LNAB.

I believe that her LNAB should be Unknown and that she should be disconnected from the parents shown (with a note in the Bio about the reason).



Alice is 16 degrees from AJ Jacobs, 15 degrees from Isaac Kidd, 17 degrees from Greg Slade and 16 degrees from Queen Elizabeth II Windsor on our single family tree. Login to find your connection.

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