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Keziah (Unknown) Southern (abt. 1765 - abt. 1855)

Keziah Southern formerly [surname unknown]
Born about in South Carolinamap
Daughter of [father unknown] and [mother unknown]
[sibling(s) unknown]
Wife of — married 1782 in South Carolinamap
Descendants descendants
Mother of , , , , , , and
Died about at about age 90 in Copiah County, Mississippi, USAmap
Problems/Questions Profile managers: N Gauthier private message [send private message] and Native Americans Project WikiTree private message [send private message]
Profile last modified | Created 25 Nov 2018
This page has been accessed 1,337 times.
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Keziah (Unknown) Southern is currently protected by the Native Americans Project for reasons described below.
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Due to unsourced claims that she was daughter of a known Native American, this profile is being tracked, protected and co-managed by WikiTree's Native Americans Project. Please use G2G to discuss evidence for her origins and relationships.
A previous version of this profile claimed she was the second daughter by the same name Keziah of known Native American John Vann and his white mate (wife?) Agnes Weatherford. This relationship has been disproven.

Biography

Keziah was born about 1765 in South Carolina and family lore relates that she was of Native American Indian heritage.

Keziah married about 1782 to Samuel Southern (b: c1765 Greenville Co, SC d: 1830) and their children included ...

  1. Seteniana (or Settene) Southern, b: 01 Jan 1789; res: NC; d: 1879; m: William "Buck" WILLIAMS, b: Aug 1787; d: 03 Nov 1871
  2. Lydia P. Southern, b: 1793 SC; d: 1863 Castor Landing, Caldwell County, LA, USA; [1] m: 25 Apr 1814 St.Helena Parish, LA to Wyatt=Wiatt HALL, Sr., b: c1787 Wilkes Co, GA; d: 1853 Covington, MS
  3. William Southern, b: c1795 SC; d: 26 Aug 1893; m: Nov 1848 Mrs. Mary "Polly" (DICKENS) Ashley=Ashly, b: 03 Apr 1807
  4. Lewis Moses Southern, b: 1796 SC; [2] [3] d: bef.1850; m: 15 Mar 1821 Lawrence Co, MS to Elizabeth HALL, d: bef.1830
  5. Diadamy Southern, m: 17 Jan 1822 MS to Samuel McLENNAN
  6. Roseanna Southern, m: Joel RANDELL
  7. John Southern
  8. Martha "Patsy" Southern, b: 1800 SC; d: aft.1860; m: Dawson Burgess O'BANNON, b: 24 Feb 1780; d: 02 Jun 1853
  9. Daniel Southern, b: c1812 MS; d: 1864; m: Mary Ann WOODS, b: 12 May 1823 TN; d: 03 Jul 1900
  10. Rachel Wrizopa "Rispey" Southern, b: c1813 MS; d: aft.1870; m: Robert WOMACK, Sr., b: c1808; d: 08 Jul 1865.

Sometime about 1805 they moved their family from South Carolina to Mississippi, USA.

Her son William Southern married Mrs. Mary Ashley on 19 Nov 1848 in Mississippi, USA [4] and she was living with them on the 1850 census. [5] [6] She does not appear with them on the 1860 census. [7]

A previous version of this profile claimed that her daughter Lydia applied for Indian Status. But it was a different Lydia Southern who tried to get land in 1896. Keziah’s daughter Lydia died in 1853 and her married name was Hall. The woman who filed the 1896 rejected Dawes application appears was Lydia Donahue Southern who lived in Texas." [8]

Research Notes

Her parents are unknown, but some suggestions have been ...

- Bolivan HALL, b: 1738; m: Jane Martin ? OR
- Ripsey HALL, b: 1744; d: 06 May 1815 Murray Co, GA; m: Choctaw Indian Princess ? [9]

Not to be confused with Keziah (Vann) Maney. Wikitree member Randy Holder is 6 generations down from this profile and believes the maiden surname "Hall" is an error. He thinks the Indian heritage for this Keziah comes from supposed parents Agnes Weatherford and John Vann. He claims that his own personal DNA suggests relationships to the surnames Weatherford, Vann, Barnes, Odum, Wilkerson, Martin and Moore. His direct connection could come down through any one of those surnames. As we all know a modern DNA test cannot provide the actual full name of an ancestor who lived 200 years ago. That must be done through genealogical documentation - and Randy can provide NO documented proof of his assertions. He simply quotes references to Ancestry® trees suggest.

Informed Wikitree users and all genealogists know Ancestry® trees are NOT evidence or proof of a biological relationship. This has been more than enough mention of a unproven, disputed reference, so If Randy's line is important to any readers, please look to his own profile or family tree for more details or contact him directly.


Sources

  1. ↑ "Pedigree Resource File" on FamilySearch database (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/2:2:36WW-D2Y : accessed 11 Jan 2020) cites sources; "Debbie's Roots" file (2:2:2:MM6S-6LC); submitted 13 June 2017 by DeborahSnyder2; entry for Lydia P. Southern
  2. ↑ 1830 Census of Copiah Co, MS; image#741 for male Southron
  3. ↑ 1840 Census of Copiah Co, MS for male
  4. ↑ Mississippi, Compiled Marriage Index 1776-1935 for William Southern, m: 19 Nov 1848 Copiah County, MS to Mrs. Mary Ashley
  5. ↑ "United States Census 1850" database with images, FamilySearch(https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M4LH-BW9 : 29 Feb 2020) citing NARA#M432; family#84; for Keziah Southern in household of William Southern, res: Copiah County, Mississippi, USA.
  6. ↑ 1850 USA Census of Gallatin, Copiah County, Mississippi; citing ancestry.com citing NARA# M432_371; image#17; p215B; family#84 included ...
    52 Southern, William; b: c1798
    43 Southern, Mary; b: c1807 GA (wife)
    84 Southern, Keziah; b: c1766 SC (mother)
    19 Ashley, George; b: c1831 AL
    09 Ashley, Mary A.; b: c1842 AL
    07 Ashley, Matilda F.; b: c1843 MS.
  7. ↑ 1860 USA Census of Harrisville Post Office, Beat#5, Simpson, Mississippi; on ancestry.com citing FHL#803591; NARA# M653_591; p142; dwelling#33; family#33 included ...
    63 Suthern, William; b: c1797 SC; occ: farmer
    53 Suthern, Mary (wife)
    18 Ashley, Marium
    16 Ashley, Maddelade
    05 Ashley, Mary Janne
    01 Ashley, John F.
    03 Ashley, Jeramiah.
  8. ↑ U.S., Native American Applications for Enrollment in Five Civilized Tribes (overturned) 1896 on ancestry.com citing Bureau of Indian Affairs, Muskogee Area Office; Record Group#75; NARA#M1650; roll#1; Tribe: Cherokee; application#590 for Lydia P. Southern.
  9. ↑ https://gw.geneanet.org/mcrocket?lang=en&pz=mary+alice&nz=whitehead&p=keziah&n=hall
  • Find A Grave: Memorial #83513628 for Keziah Southern, b: 1766 MS; d: 1850 Copiah County, Mississippi; as burial: unknown; spouse: Samuel Southern
  • Lineage self




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DNA Connections
It may be possible to confirm family relationships with Keziah by comparing test results with other carriers of her mitochondrial DNA. However, there are no known mtDNA test-takers in her direct maternal line. It is likely that these autosomal DNA test-takers will share some percentage of DNA with Keziah:

Have you taken a DNA test? If so, login to add it. If not, see our friends at Ancestry DNA.



Comments: 41

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Smith-32867 Jillaine Smith
I reached out to WikiTree's expert on DNA for help. He shared this:

Julie Kelts’ answer pretty much says everything I would: https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/1006004/please-review-dna-info

The matching auDNA cousins need to be in GEDmatch and their GEDmatch IDs in WikiTree and they would need to work with triangulated segments.

The other option is matching mtDNA of direct maternal line descendants of the suspected Native American.

Bottom line: DNA claims made on Ancestry online trees is insufficient evidence.

posted on Hall-37999 (merged) by Jillaine Smith
N Gauthier
Randy, I agree that DNA does not lie. From what you described earlier, the problem you have is that you are NOT comparing dna results! What you are comparing is family trees ... and family trees lie (as you say) or have mistakes. Those family trees make claims about their dna results, and it is only those claims that are being compared. The actual dna results themselves are not being compared.

There are only 2 types of dna ... Y-dna and mt-dna. You obviously do not have Vann Y-dna because your surname is Holder. You cannot have Y-dna from Keziah Vann because females do not have any Y-dna. You cannot have mt-dna from Keziah Vann because you do not have a direct female line to her. Your line to her jumps back and forth between males and females.

Kathie quote> Autosomal DNA is only reliable for three or perhaps four generations.

If you are comparing snippets of dna, they only work for a few generations and you are 7 generations down from Keziah and 8 generations down from John Vann and Agnes Weatherford.

Please read up and learn more about how dna comparisons work.

Show us the circa 1765 documents that proove there are 2 Keziahs.

Show us the actual dna comparisons between the Vanns and you.

Please do not waste our time with any claims made in circa 2020 family trees.

posted on Hall-37999 (merged) by N Gauthier
edited by N Gauthier
Holder-2194 Randy Holder
In response: Autosomal DNA triangulated with direct Vann decedents can go back many generations,

My connection is only 4 generations to Kezaih (Vann) Southern,

You hold to the position that KEZIAH MANEY is a direct decedent of John Josephy Vann,

Then the fact that Keziah [Maney] is my 4th Half Aunt as shown through many DNA connecting her children to my DNA would be included on the profile.

Why be so arrogant your time is no more important than mine,

The fact is there is documented evidence of many Keziahs in the Vann family not just 2,

If you spent more time researching this and less time discrediting it you might find the connection.

posted by Randy Holder
Parks-2399 Kathie (Parks) Forbes
See G2G post at: https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/920405/can-you-take-a-ride-with-the-vanns
posted on Hall-37999 (merged) by Kathie (Parks) Forbes

Featured National Park champion connections: Keziah is 13 degrees from Theodore Roosevelt, 20 degrees from Stephanus Johannes Paulus Kruger, 16 degrees from George Catlin, 13 degrees from Marjory Douglas, 15 degrees from Sueko Embrey, 16 degrees from George Grinnell, 22 degrees from Anton Kröller, 17 degrees from Stephen Mather, 20 degrees from Kara McKean, 15 degrees from John Muir, 16 degrees from Victoria Hanover and 22 degrees from Charles Young on our single family tree. Login to find your connection.

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