Bernard Vatant
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Bernard Vatant

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Signed 6 Apr 2019 | 43,875 contributions | 732 thank-yous | 2,899 connections
Bernard Vatant
Born 1950s.
Ancestors ancestors
[children unknown]
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Profile last modified | Created 6 Apr 2019
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About the patronym "Vatant"

Bernard Vatant won the guess the total in the Connect-a-Thon XIII.

I have inherited a not-so-frequent patronym, of which origin is still unclear. My paternal line tracks back with good confidence up to Jean Vatant (abt.1673-1723), in the heart of Brittany. The name is rare in this region, all its bearers were somehow relatives. But it does not make any sense in Brezhoneg, the local language, so it was probably imported there long ago. From where remains unknown. It can be found in some other regions of France, such as Burgundy, and around the eponym village in the center of France, although that one is lacking the trailing "t", which is not a detail. In Brezhoneg, the trailing "t" was certainly pronounced, more or less as in English "blatant", and records written by Brezhoneg-speaking priests or officers never mispell it. In French it's not pronounced, and late 1800s records often forget it.

Most of all other ancestors of mine, both on paternal and maternal side, bear honest Brezhoneg peasants names, such as Favennec, Corre, Le Du, Penanguer, Hamonou, Jégou, although a pinch of more no(ta)bles can be found in the 1600s, such as Catherine de Kerenor (abt.1630-1704).

Free Space Pages

Why I don't work on "deep ancestors"

We are all cousins. And in a very extensive meaning of "we", see Evogeneao showing how all living creatures on this planet, not only all of us humans, but all animals, tigers, bees, snakes, snails, and also trees, mushrooms and even bacteria, all belong to the same Big Family. The Tree of Life is a "Single Tree".

That said, it's very likely, dear fellow WikiTreer, that you and me will never know by her name a single one of our common ancestors if the most recent ones were living before 1400. To begin with, I don't and will never know with a reasonable level of confidence any of my ancestors that far away.

And suppose we ever find one such medieval common ancestor, over 20 generations ago. The probability for one at least of the links (in either or both lines connecting us to her) to be wrong is fairly high. Even if you have a 99% mean confidence for every filiation link to be correct, the probability of the entire line to be correct, back and forth, is 0.99^40 = 0.67. Far from certainty ...

And 99% mean confidence for each step back and forth over 20 generations seems a very bold assumption indeed. If you take a more conservative estimation, like 95%, you come out with a probability of 0.95^40 = 0.13 to be correct. Otherwise said, 87% of chances for this connection path to be wrong somewhere. And if you are overly cautious and say the mean confidence is 90%, you end up at more than 98% of chances to be wrong.

Let's not nitpick on figures. The conclusion is : forget it, it's not worth the trouble of so many nights passed over dubious old scribblings. There is a lot to do in more recent generations, and with a higher level of confidence, without going backward much before 1800. That's why I focus on the late 1800s and early 1900s, the Belle Époque through which, my fellow genealogists, I believe we can be connected by some cousins of cousins of in-laws.

My dear aunt Sidonie used to say : On hérite de sept générations! Of course she knew our ancestors lines extend far beyond those seven generations, but that was putting a reasonable horizon to the genealogical research.

See also : http://goaf.fr/genealogie


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Comments: 31

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Bonjour Bernard,

In my endeavour to strengthen connections around Helgoland (my sister-in-law has ancestors from there), I have come across notable entrepreneur Rickmer C. Rickmers. His son Andreas married a lady from Cognac-Nord in France, Hélène Bouraud. That LNAB would be a first on WikiTree. So is it even a good idea to use her as a connection into France? Or would that lead to a longwinded path without aim? Alas!, the database for Helgoland at ofb.genealogy.net is down, so I cannot expand on Helgoland profiles directly right now …

Best wishes from a neighbouring country ;-)

Oliver

posted by Oliver Stegen PhD
edited by Oliver Stegen PhD
I don't see any problem with adding Hélène Bouraud.

The marriage record in Cognac is here : https://lasource.archives.lacharente.fr/ark:/61904/s00552b5fdacf397/img:FRAD016_3E_108_0045_167

Hélène's father, Henry Bouraud, was the mayor of Cognac, and should not be too difficult to connect.

posted by Bernard Vatant
Great! Special thanks for the link! I'll look into that in due course ... :)

Bonne nuit!

posted by Oliver Stegen PhD
edited by Oliver Stegen PhD
I've added Hélène Bouraud's profile, and will look at the shortest way to connect her.

Will go in circles ...

posted by Bernard Vatant
I connected her to her great great grandfather James Delamain but I would be surprised if that was indeed the shortest path. As I don’t have access to primary sources, and definitely not in France, I‘ll work on the Rickmers side from OFB Helgoland. Currently it‘s a cul-de-sac. No cycles and holes yet … ;-)

P.S.: Another descendant of James Delamain, Ralph Wedgwood, created the Delamain line into the 1600s but left lots of room for expansion …

posted by Oliver Stegen PhD
edited by Oliver Stegen PhD
Ha! I had not explored enough to find out the Delamain branch was already in WT. Good job. I'll add the primary sources when I have some bandwidth, but they are public at https://lasource.archives.lacharente.fr/archive/resultats/etatcivil/tableau?REch_commune_Libel=Cognac%7C&REch_commune_Md5=1eb1fba9d2767e70c428514f7299acc0%7C&type=etatcivil
posted by Bernard Vatant
Wow, great! I had a look at the public sources - alas!, reading those French handwritings beats me. I'll have to leave the sourcing and expansion of the Delamain branch to you (or others).
posted by Oliver Stegen PhD
I decided to ask for help in profile creation at G2G, cf. https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/1824036/help-expanding-connecting-branch-notable-james-delamain-1738 - hope you don't mind ... ;-)
posted by Oliver Stegen PhD

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