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Matilda (Vaux) de Ros (abt. 1261 - aft. 1312)

Matilda (Maud) de Ros formerly Vaux aka de Vaux
Born about in Vaux, Allier, Auvergne, Francemap
Ancestors ancestors
Daughter of and [uncertain]
Wife of — married before 1287 in Englandmap [uncertain]
Descendants descendants
Died after after about age 51 in bur. Pentney Priory, Norfolk, Englandmap
Profile last modified | Created 7 Jul 2011
This page has been accessed 9,181 times.
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Contents

Biography

Maud or Matilda, born about 1261 (age 26 in 1287), was the daughter of John de Vaux[1] by his second wife, Sibyl de Longchamps.[2]

Matilda de Vaux, daughter of John de Vaux married William de Ros before 1287. Maud de Vaux was younger daughter and coheiress, in 1287, of John de Vaux, son of Sir Oliver de Vaux and his wife Petronilla de Craon.[3]

Maud married William de Ros of Helmsley before 1287, and they had four sons (Sir William, Sir John, Thomas, and George) and three daughters (Agnes, Alice, and "possibly Margaret").[1]

Maud was "living in Easter term, 1312."[1] She died before 1316, predeceasing her husband.[3] The body of Maud, wife of Sir William de Roos, 1st Lord Roos of Helmsley, was buried at Pentney Abbey, Norfolk, and her bowels ("viscera") in the chapel of St. Mary at Belvoir Priory, Leicestershire.[4]

Research notes

There has been uncertainty about Maud's mother. Her father John de Vaux had at least two wives, Joan and Sybil.

Roger de Gisneia, lord of Haveringland in Norfolk in the 18th of Henry III (1233/34), was the first husband of Joan, who was sister and coheir of Sir Peter de Pelevile, and she remarried Sir John de Vaux. This Joan was the mother of Sir William de Gyney, Roger's son and heir.[5]

Richardson's Royal Ancestry (Vol IV, p 491, ROOS #8) showed that John de Vaux and his wife Joan, sister of Sir Peter de Peleville, were Maud's parents. However, a 2017 post by Richardson to soc.gen.medieval[2] notes new evidence and provides a detailed and interesting discussion, with the bottom line:

"Inasmuch as Joan de Peleville, 1st wife of Sir John de Vaux, must have died sometime between 1250 and 1254, she obviously can not be Sir John's wife who was the mother of his two daughters, Pernel and Maud, both of whom were born after 1254. That leaves Sir John's surviving wife, Sibyl, as the candidate to be the mother of the Vaux girls."

Further evidence against Joan being the mother of John de Vaux's daughters is the fact that Roger and Joan's heir William de Gynney was the first husband of one of them, Maud, as can be seen in the IPM of John de Vaux.[6] If Joan were the mother of both, then this would be a marriage of half siblings.

Therefore, the profile of John's first wife, Joan (Pelevile) de Vaux, was replaced by the profile for his second wife, Sibyl (Longchamps) de Vaux, as Maud's mother.


Disputed Children

Additional children had been attached to this profile, but were detached due to insufficient evidence. Please let me know if you have evidence that William and Maud had daughters named Joan, Matilda, and Mary.
~ Liz Shifflett, 13 August 2015 (See her husband's profile for additional details.)

Sources

  1. 1.0 1.1 1.2 Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, Royal Ancestry series, 2nd edition, 4 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham, (Salt Lake City, Utah: the author, 2011), page 448
  2. 2.0 2.1 post by Douglas Richardson on 13 Feb. 2017 to soc.gen.medieval, " C.P. Addition: Maud de Vaux, wife of William de Roos, 1st Lord Roos of Helmsley, & her sister, Pernel de Vaux, wife of Sir WIlliam de Nerford" (accessed 21 Jan. 2019)
  3. 3.0 3.1 Cawley's Medieval Lands database, Maud de Vaux, citing Dugdale Monasticon VI.1, Pentney Priory, Norfolk, III, p. 70.
  4. Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 5 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham (Salt Lake City, Utah: the author, 2013), Vol IV, p 492
  5. Francis Blomefield, 'Eynford Hundred: Heverland', in An Essay Towards A Topographical History of the County of Norfolk: Volume 8 (London, 1808), pp. 226-234. British History Online http://www.british-history.ac.uk/topographical-hist-norfolk/vol8/pp226-234 [accessed 8 October 2022].
  6. IPM of John de Vaux p.403.
  • Rymer's Ftedera, vol. ii. p. 23 and 1087.
  • XI ibid. p. 74, 190, 199 and 288.
  • Dugdale's Baronage.
  • Sphere of Gentry, by Silvanus Morgan, p. 64.
  • Monasticon Anglicanum, vol. ii. p. 897.
  • ACCOUNT OF THE FAMILY OF VAUX, VANS, OR DE VALLIBUS. 1800
  • Maud de Vaux, "thepeerage" (website, compiled by Darryl Lundy, Ngaio, Wellington, New Zealand; accessed 9 April 2018)

Acknowledgements

This page has been edited according to Style Standards adopted January 2014. Descriptions of imported gedcoms for this profile are under the Changes tab.





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Comments: 12

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Despite what Blomefield says, the IPM of John seems to say that Maud the daughter of John Vaux, first married William Gyney and then remarried to William de Ros? https://archive.org/details/cu31924011387804/page/402/mode/2up?q=Nerford

Blomefield says that John's own wife Joan de Pelevile was first married to Roger Gyney, evidently the father of that William, which is what we are also showing. I suppose if I am right this is extra evidence against Joan de Pelevile being mother of Maud. That would otherwise mean Roger and Joan were half-siblings.

posted by Andrew Lancaster
dbe suggestion led to wikidata page with b 1257/d1316, citing http://roglo.eu/roglo (which does not appear to be a reliable source). birth about 1261 & died "before 1316" in WikiTree profile are sourced to Richardson & Cawley, respectively. I marked the dbe suggestion as false. (This is a new-to-me error... maybe I'm missing something obvious that it's trying to tell me?)

edited to fix a typo

posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
edited by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
See https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.genealogy.medieval/4T6vVGTkj9E for a correction on Maud's Mother posted by Douglas Richardson. This eliminates Joan as Maud's mother, in favor of Sybil.
posted by William Collins
note- I'd rejected the merge with Vaux-216 when the mother attached to that profile had been Sybil (now a second wife of John). Richardson shows that Maud de Vaux who married William de Roos was the "younger daughter and co-heiress of John de Vaux, of Frieston, Lincolnshire, and Walton, Norfolk, by Joan, widow of Roger de Gyney, of Pickworth, Rutland."

birth "about 1261" and marriage "before 1287" are also from Richardson (see link in source list Magna Carta Ancestry p 448)

posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
Vaux-216 and Vaux-95 appear to represent the same person because: look to be the sane person
posted by Ted Williams
having Sibel attached as mother is causing confusion, since her mother is Joan. I'd like to detach it, if no objection.

Thanks, Liz

posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
Vaux-216 and Vaux-95 do not represent the same person because: Richardson has Maud who married de Roos as the daughter of John by his wife Jane. So a Maud, daughter of John and Sybil is somebody else - and not the wife of de Roos.
posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
Please note that Richardson has mother as Joan (see text). Not sure where Sybil, er Sibel came from.
posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
Vaux-95 and DeRos-16 appear to represent the same person because: Matilda DeRos-16 was attached as a daughter, but documentation for William & Maud having a daughter named Matilda is lacking, and the profile was lacking in information/clues to help figure out who she was meant to be. So... please merge her into Maud's profile (it could even be that's who she was meant to be in the first place!). Thanks!
posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
Update: I'm setting an unmerged match, pending protection of Vaux-95 (requested Aug. 13)

Please see Ros-53, where I proposed that the profile for daughter Matilda be merged away into mother Matilda.

Thanks!

posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett

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