Janet (Watson) Norval (1748 - aft. 1785)

Born 1748 in New Kilpatrick, Dunbartonshire, Scotland

Wife of John Norval X — married 12 May 1765 in Glasgow, Scotland

Wife of James Norwall X — married 8 Dec 1765 in Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland

Descendants

Problems/Questions Profile managers: Dennis Maeder [send private message] and Fanie Cloete [send private message]

Biography

Janet Watson was born in 1748 to Margaret Knox and nn Watson in the Parish of New or East Kilpatrick on the outskirts of Glasgow. In 1765 banns were read in both New Kilpatrick and Glasgow when she married James Nerwal or Norwall (spelling was fluid). They had the following children in subsequent years:

• 1766 JEAN Norwell
• 1768 JAMES Norwall
• 1771 JOHN Norwell
• 1774 JANET Norwell
• 1776 ARCHIBALD Norwell
• 1781 ANAPLE Norwell
• 1785 WILLIAM Norwal

Charlotte?

Did Charlotte Watson (~1750-) exist? Some ScotlandsPeople questions.

How many children named Charlotte were baptized in Glasgow 1553-1746? Zero. 1553-1760? 0

More? Janet is included as a control for population size.

From To Charlotte Janet C/J

1701 1720 0 960 0.000

1721 1740 0 1310 0.000

1741 1760 0 1670 0.000

1761 1780 7 2177 0.003

1781 1800 21 2961 0.007

1801 1820 62 3284 0.019

1821 1840 87 3998 0.022

1841 1860 77 2566 0.030

Although uncommon there was an ongoing rise in popularity of Charlotte relative to the well-loved Janet in Glasgow.

When was the first Charlotte * baptized in Glasgow? 1761. Why? German born Charlotte became Queen when she married George of GB in that year and remained so to her death in 1818. Scotland joined the UK in 1801. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte_of_Mecklenburg-Strelitz

The first recorded Charlotte Watson born in Glasgow? 1813

Were there Charlotte * in Scotland before 1761? Yes – 140 in all, in places like Edinburgh, but not in the West-facing Glasgow.

Charlotte Watson in Scotland? 17. The earliest was 1754 in the parish of Newton, the next was 1764 in Dumfries, both too late to be the mother of John (snr) (1769-).

Watson (f), Norval (m) marriages? 3. All feature James N + Janet Watson in different places

• WATSON, JANET + JAMES NERWAL/FR289 (FR289) + 07/12/1765 + New or East Kilpatrick
• WATSON, JANET + JAMES NORVAL/ + 03/06/1798 + Montrose
• WATSON, JANET + JAMES NORWALL/FR2686 (FR2686) + 08/12/1765 + Glasgow

The last of these corresponds to a FS tree at [1] This has the following children attached:

• 1766 Jean
• 1768 James *
• 1771 John *
• 1774 Janet

This couple (James Norwall + Janet Watson) would be plausible forebears of John (snr) if William & Archibald were cousins not sibs, and explain Archibald and James N. as witnesses to the baptism of John(jr.) in 1799.

Given all this, I would say that Charlotte (Watson) Norval (1746-) is a fictional person, the result of mis-remembered names and relationships by long since dead family historians and genealogists.

Janet was born 1748 in New Kilpatrick to James Watson and Margaret Knox (with marriage at 17 - fertile years 1766-1785 - so sometime in the 1740s). She married James Norwell in 1765. There is no known record of her death.

Family

yyyy father SurName mother 1st mother last Child

1766 JAMES NORWELL JANET WATSON JEAN

1768 JAMES NORWALL JANET WATSON JAMES

1771 JAMES NORWELL JANET WATSON JOHN

1774 JAMES NORWELL JANET WATSON JANET

1776 Archibald son of James Norwell at Dumfries

1781 JAMES NORVELL JANET WATSON ANAPLE

1785 JAMES NORWAL JANET WATSON WILLIAM

Sources

external profiles

• https://norval.co.za/tree/ppl/a/2/d255ff75f09569e342a.html
• https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/GDKW-3B3
• https://gw.geneanet.org/mogulza?n=watson&oc=&p=charlotte

Note there is no primary evidence for a Charlotte Watson born between 1700 and 1800 married to a John Norval (or any Norval and ilk) in Scotland. Tested at FamilySearch, FindMyPast and Scotland's People.

I suspect that secondary sources are in error and that the true parents of William, John and Archibald Norval, Moodie Settlers to South Africa were John Norwell & Margaret Baird who had this family in Glasgow:

• 1765 William [2]
• 1769 John [3]
• 1770 Archibald [4]
• 1772 Margret [5]
• 1775 Anaple [6]
• 1779 Grizel [7]

Norwall/Watson family

[8]

• James Norwall Deceased • 9QX4-CFQ​​
• Marriage: 08 DEC 1765 Glasgow,Lanark,Scotland
• Janet Watson Deceased • 93YM-QHB​​
• Children of Janet Watson and James Norwall (4)
• 1766 Jean Norwell 1766–Deceased • 93FY-DG3​​
• 1768 James Norwall 1768–Deceased • 93YM-QH8​​
• 1771 John Norwell 1771–Deceased • 93VP-8GW​​
• 1774 Janet Norwall 1774–Deceased • 9QXN-S5T
• FS profile [9], tree [10]

1748 birth to James Watson & Margaret Knox

SP SP poor image

Name WATSON, JANET

Parents/other details WATSON/MARGARET KNOX FR118 (FR118)

Gender F

Date 00/00/1748

Parish number 500/

Ref 10 107

Parish New or East Kilpatrick

1765 marriage New Kilpatrick

[11]

Name James Nerwal

Sex Male

Spouse's Name Janet Watson

Spouse's Sex Female

Marriage Date 7 Dec 1765

Marriage Place New Kilpatrick, Dunbartonshire, Scotland

Marriage Place (Original) New Kilpatrick, Dunbarton, Scotland

"Scotland Marriages, 1561-1910", database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTGZ-L2L : 11 February 2020), Janet Watson in entry for James Nerwal, 1765.

1765 marriage Glasgow

FMPFS

First name(s) Janet

Last name Watson

Marriage year 1765

Marriage date 08 Dec 1765

Spouse's first name(s) James

Spouse's last name Norwall

Father's first name(s) James

Father's last name Watson

Place Glasgow

County Lanarkshire

Country Scotland

Record set Scotland, Parish Marriages & Banns 1561-1893

Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records

Subcategory Parish Marriages

Collections from Great Britain, Scotland

NOTE banns were read both at Glasgow and New Kilpatrick dated the previous day [12]

NOTE New Kilpatrick is a rural area a few miles downstream on the Clyde from Glasgow, and her presumptive birthplace

1766 birth of Jean Norwell

[13]

Name Jean Norwell

Sex Female

Christening Date 17 Dec 1766

Christening Place Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland

Christening Place (Original) Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland

Birth Date 16 Dec 1766

Father's Name James Norwell

Mother's Name Janet Watson

"Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950", database, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X19R-1HX : 16 September 2021), Janet Watson in entry for Jean Norwell, 1766.

1768 birth of James Norwall

[14]

Name James Norwall

Sex Male

Birth Date 4 Nov 1768

Birthplace Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland

Birthplace (Original) Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland

Father's Name James Norwall

Mother's Name Janet Watson

"Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950", database, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X1W3-2SM : 16 September 2021), Janet Watson in entry for James Norwall, 1768.

1771 birth of John Norwell

[15]

Name John Norwell

Sex Male

Birth Date 28 Nov 1771

Birthplace Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland

Birthplace (Original) Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland

Father's Name James Norwell

Mother's Name Janet Watson

"Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950", database, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X1WQ-W7L : 16 September 2021), Janet Watson in entry for John Norwell, 1771.

1774 birth of Janet Norwell

[16]

Name Janet Norwell

Sex Female

Christening Place Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland, United Kingdom

Christening Place (Original) Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland

Birth Date 1774

Birthplace , Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland

Father's Name James Norwell

Mother's Name Janet Watson

Source Details - 2:16LRHVF

"Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950", database, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:CM76-QG2M : 16 September 2021), Janet Watson in entry for Janet Norwell, .

1776 birth of Archibald in Dumfries

[17]

Name Archibald Norwell

Sex Male

Christening Date 22 Dec 1776

Christening Place Dumfries, Dumfriesshire, Scotland

Christening Place (Original) Dumfries, Dumfries, Scotland

Father's Name James Norwell

"Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950", database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XT1T-4M8 : 12 February 2020), Archibald Norwell, 1776.

NOTE no mother was recorded at christenings in Dumfries - south of Glasgow near the English border. It is assumed that she had a difficult pregnancy and was temporarily away from Glasgow in mid-winter.

NOTE the SP image [18] reads

Baptized at Dumfries anno 1776

Decem. 22 | Archibald L.S. to James Norwell combmaker. Witnesses Francis Maxwell & Samuel Thompson.

1781 birth of Anaple Norvell

[19]

Name Anaple Norvell

Sex Female

Birth Date 2 May 1781

Birthplace Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland

Birthplace (Original) Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland

Father's Name James Norvell

Father's Sex Male

Mother's Name Janet Watson

"Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950", database, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X191-XZF : 16 September 2021), Janet Watson in entry for Anaple Norvell, 1781.

1785 birth of William Norwal

[20]

Name William Norwal

Sex Male

Birth Date 26 Sep 1785

Birthplace Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland

Birthplace (Original) Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland

Father's Name James Norwal

Mother's Name Janet Watson

"Scotland Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950", database, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X1W4-W2V : 16 September 2021), Janet Watson in entry for William Norwal, 1785.

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