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Welf (Welf) von Bayern (abt. 0770 - bef. 0825)

Welf (Welf I) von Bayern formerly Welf aka of Allemania
Born about [location unknown]
Son of and [mother unknown]
[sibling(s) unknown]
Husband of — married 0805 [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Died before [location unknown]
Profile last modified | Created 19 Apr 2011 | Last significant change: 14 Feb 2021
00:58: Traci Thiessen edited the Biography for Welf (Welf) von Bayern (abt.0770-bef.0825). [Thank Traci for this]
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Welf I (Welf) von Bayern has German ancestry.
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Contents

Biography

Welf (Hwelf) is the earliest documented ancestor of the Welf dynasty (sometimes known as Guelph, Guelf, Guelfe). His name is perhaps a shortened form of Welfhard or Bernwelf.[1]

The first time he appears in the records is in the Gesta Hludowici imperatoris (Life of Emperor Louis the Pious), written by Thegan of Trier in about 836-837,[2] where he is mentioned as the father of Louis' second wife, Judith; married in 819.

Ancestry

Although Welf was a noble in the Carolingian empire, its not clear exactly where. Thegan calls him a Duke in Bavaria ( Hwelfi ducis ... noblissima progenie Bawariorum) though he never held the title Duke or Count of Bavaria, which appears in many secondary sources.[3]

It's also possible he was a Count in Argengau a district later included in the Duchy of Swabia and also the northern section of the Kingdom of Burgundy, based on his possible father or grandfather, and then his son, ruling that area.

In secondary sources, he is often called Count of Altdorf, but again there are no primary sources to confirm this and it is later members of the family who ruled there.

His parentage is unknown, but his father or grandfather may have been Rothard (Ruothard/Chrothard), Count in Argengau,[4] see that profile for further details.

Another theory is that his father is Isanbart, a Count in Allemannia, the son of a Count Warin and Hadellinde.[3]

Birth date

The only date that can be assigned to him, is the marriage date of his daughter Judith in 819, when it would be supposed that he was still alive. Given that a birth date of about 800-805 is proposed for her and she is thought to be his eldest daughter and possibly eldest child[5] then a birth date of about 770 seems reasonable for Welf.

Family

His spouse was Heilwig, (family name unknown but from the nobility of Saxony)[6]

  • Judith (c.805 - 19 April 843), Empress and Queen of the Franks[1][2]
  • Konrad "l'Ancien" (d. 22 March 862/66), Graf von Linzgau und Argengau, Comte de Paris, husband of Adelais de Tours
  • Raoul/Rudolf I (d. 15 Oct 866), Comte de Sens, husband of Hruodun (d. after 867)
  • Emma/Hemma (d. 31 Jan 876), Queen of Bavaria and Carinthia[3]

Possible child

  • Hrodroh/Ruadroh, appears in a list of names after Konrad and Rudolf and before Hemma, and it thought to be another son, died 1 February, year unknown.[3]

Unverified children

  • Eticho, is listed in a late 12th century document; Historia Welforum Weingartensis, as the son of Welf, and ancestor of the German Welfs.[3] He has continued to appear in many works[7] but there are no primary documents that name him and he is thought to be legendary or at least not a son of Welf.
  • Deda (Edith), appears in online genealogies as the daughter of Welf and Heilwig, and married to Bernard de Toulouse, Count of Barcelona. According to Cawley, his wife is called Dhuoda (Doda) and her parents are unknown. There seems to be no primary sources that call her the daughter of Welf and Heilwig and the relationship must be from a much later source and should be disregarded.

Death

He died on 3 September, probably before about circa 825, when his wife was appointed Abbess of Chelles.[3]

Sources

  1. Cawley; Hiebl
  2. Thegan of Trier
  3. 3.0 3.1 3.2 3.3 3.4 Baldwin, S. (2012, 16 August). 'Welf: Duke or count. Ancestor of the Welfs.' in The Henry Project, Stewart Baldwin & Todd Farmerie (Eds). Retrieved 29 December from https://fasg.org/projects/henryproject/data/welf0000.htm
  4. Baldwin; Cawley, Huebl; Moriarty; Settipani
  5. her known siblings all died about 20 years or more after her
  6. Baldwin, citing Thegan, Vita Hludowici Im
  7. see for instance, Halliday, p. 86 & 104
  • Settipani, C. & Van Kerrebrouck, P. (1993). La préhistoire des Capétiens 481-987: Première partie - Mérovingiens, Carolingiens et Robertiens, being volume 1 of Nouvelle histoire généalogique de l'auguste Maison de France, P. Van Kerrebrouck (Ed.); Villeneuve d'Ascq, France.

See also:

  • W.H.Turton, "The Plantagenet Ancestry" (Balt.:Gen. Pub. Co., 1968), p. 23 & 181, titles him Guelph III, Count of Andech, and has him son of Guelph, 745-800.}


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Comments: 10

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NOTE: 543 Wikidata - Clue for Mother: Irmentruda Thiedrada von Nagolzgau, source: thepeerage. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q76300020
posted by Traci Thiessen
I think there is a good reason why thePeerage.com is not recommended for pre-1500 profiles. I doubt Irmentruda Thiedrada von Nagolzgau ever existed.
posted by John Atkinson
What is our source for his currently-attached father?
posted by Isaac Taylor
Please add [email address removed] as comanager of this profile. Thank You Jacky
posted by Jacqueline Clark
This person appears to be Welf I, count of Serbia according to the geni.com website

https://www.geni.com/people/Welf-I-count-in-Swabia/6000000002198362511

If this is correct, his wife was known as Hedwig, Abbess de Chelles, b. abt 780

posted by Bill Huitt
Roger, would you consider a Merge of both her husbands as they seem to have the same names and children with the same names?

Thank you for your consideration, Renee Malloy

posted by Renee Malloy Esq
Welf-52 and Welf-4 do not represent the same person because: do not match
posted by Allan Colver
Suabia-1 and Welf-52 are not ready to be merged because: Parents are different, need to investigate further.
Suabia-1 and Welf-52 are not ready to be merged because: The parents do not appears to be the same, but much of the other information matches. So parents need to be resolved first.

Unmerged matches › Isanbard (vonThurgau) Thurgau (0750-0806)
Rejected matches › Mabel Weld (1905-)

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Categories: House of Welf | German Roots | Duchy of Bavaria | Bavaria, Germany | Auxerre, Yonne