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Welf (Welf) von Bayern (abt. 0770 - bef. 0825)

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Welf (Welf I) von Bayern formerly Welf aka of Allemania
Born about [location unknown]
Son of and [mother unknown]
[sibling(s) unknown]
Husband of — married [location unknown]
Died before [location unknown]
Welf-3 created 19 Apr 2011 | Last modified
This page has been accessed 1,811 times.

Categories: House of Welf | German Roots Project | Bavaria, Germany | Bavaria | State of Bavaria | Bayern, Deutschland | Auxerre | German Roots.

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Graf im Frankenreich



Welf (Hwelf) is the earliest documented ancestor of the Welf dynasty (sometimes known as Guelph, Guelf, Guelfe). His name is perhaps a shortened form of Welfhard or Bernwelf.[1]

The first time he appears in the records is in the Gesta Hludowici imperatoris (Life of Emperor Louis the Pious), written by Thegan of Trier in about 836-837,[2] where he is mentioned as the father of Louis' second wife, Judith; married in 819.


Although Welf was a noble in the Carolingian empire, its not clear exactly where. Thegan calls him a Duke in Bavaria ( Hwelfi ducis ... noblissima progenie Bawariorum) though he never held the title Duke or Count of Bavaria, which appears in many secondary sources.[3]

It's also possible he was a Count in Argengau a district later included in the Duchy of Swabia and also the northern section of the Kingdom of Burgundy, based on his possible father or grandfather, and then his son, ruling that area.

In secondary sources, he is often called Count of Altdorf, but again there are no primary sources to confirm this and it is later members of the family who ruled there.

His parentage is unknown, but his father or grandfather may have been Rothard (Ruothard/Chrothard), Count in Argengau,[4] see that profile for further details.

Another theory is that his father is Isanbart, a Count in Allemannia, the son of a Count Warin and Hadellinde.[5]

Birth date

The only date that can be assigned to him, is the marriage date of his daughter Judith in 819, when it would be supposed that he was still alive. Given that a birth date of about 800-805 is proposed for her and she is thought to be his eldest daughter and possibly eldest child[6] then a birth date of about 770 seems reasonable for Welf.


His spouse was Heilwig, (family name unknown but from the nobility of Saxony)[7]

  • Judith (c.805 - 19 April 843), Empress and Queen of the Franks[1][2]
  • Konrad "l'Ancien" (d. 22 March 862/66), Graf von Linzgau und Argengau, Comte de Paris, husband of Adelais de Tours
  • Raoul/Rudolf I (d. 15 Oct 866), Comte de Sens, husband of Hruodun (d. after 867)
  • Emma/Hemma (d. 31 Jan 876), Queen of Bavaria and Carinthia[3]

Possible child

  • Hrodroh/Ruadroh, appears in a list of names after Konrad and Rudolf and before Hemma, and it thought to be another son, died 1 February, year unknown.[8]

Unverified children

  • Eticho, is listed in a late 12th century document; Historia Welforum Weingartensis, as the son of Welf, and ancestor of the German Welfs.[9] He has continued to appear in many works[10] but there are no primary documents that name him and he is thought to be legendary or at least not a son of Welf.
  • Deda (Edith), appears in online genealogies as the daughter of Welf and Heilwig, and married to Bernard de Toulouse, Count of Barcelona. According to Cawley, his wife is called Dhuoda (Doda) and her parents are unknown. There seems to be no primary sources that call her the daughter of Welf and Heilwig and the relationship must be from a much later source and should be disregarded.


He died on 3 September, probably before about circa 825, when his wife was appointed Abbess of Chelles.[11]


  1. Cawley; Hiebl
  2. Thegan of Trier
  3. Baldwin
  4. Baldwin; Cawley, Huebl; Moriarty; Settipani
  5. Baldwin
  6. her known siblings all died about 20 years or more after her
  7. Baldwin, citing Thegan, Vita Hludowici Im
  8. Baldwin
  9. Baldwin
  10. see for instance, Halliday, p. 86 & 104
  11. Baldwin
  • Settipani, C. & Van Kerrebrouck, P. (1993). La préhistoire des Capétiens 481-987: Première partie - Mérovingiens, Carolingiens et Robertiens, being volume 1 of Nouvelle histoire généalogique de l'auguste Maison de France, P. Van Kerrebrouck (Ed.); Villeneuve d'Ascq, France.


  • W.H.Turton, "The Plantagenet Ancestry" (Balt.:Gen. Pub. Co., 1968), p. 23 & 181, titles him Guelph III, Count of Andech, and has him son of Guelph, 745-800.}

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No known carriers of Welf I's Y-chromosome or his mother's mitochondrial DNA have taken yDNA or mtDNA tests.

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On 13 Sep 2016 at 20:55 GMT Bill Huitt wrote:

This person appears to be Welf I, count of Serbia according to the website

If this is correct, his wife was known as Hedwig, Abbess de Chelles, b. abt 780

On 6 Sep 2014 at 11:45 GMT Renee Malloy wrote:

Roger, would you consider a Merge of both her husbands as they seem to have the same names and children with the same names?

Thank you for your consideration, Renee Malloy

On 1 Sep 2014 at 00:31 GMT Allan Colver wrote:

Welf-52 and Welf-4 do not represent the same person because: do not match

On 10 Jul 2014 at 00:04 GMT Steve (Vander Leest) VanderLeest wrote:

Suabia-1 and Welf-52 are not ready to be merged because: Parents are different, need to investigate further.

On 13 Jun 2014 at 01:21 GMT Steve (Vander Leest) VanderLeest wrote:

Suabia-1 and Welf-52 are not ready to be merged because: The parents do not appears to be the same, but much of the other information matches. So parents need to be resolved first.

On 13 Mar 2013 at 19:53 GMT Roger Travis Jr. wrote:

Welf I is 34 degrees from Kevin Bacon, 41 degrees from Bob Dylan, 36 degrees from AJ Jacobs, 35 degrees from Michael Phelps and 30 degrees from Queen Elizabeth II of the Commonwealth Realms on our single family tree. Login to find your connection.

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