How should I reference Event: YDNA Descendant ...

+1 vote
292 views
I am working to add sources to Ward-4797 and make his profile more readable. There is a lot of good information, however, it needs someone to consolidate and clean it up.  

I am not sure what to do with this information: Event: YDNA Descendant Brian Gregory Ward is a 67 marker 1 genetic distance with Chandler May and Charles Allen Godfrey. Reference Number: 1291

I would like it to be a reference, but I am not sure how to format or actually reference it.

Any pointers will help.

Thanks,

Kim
WikiTree profile: Benjamin Ward
in Policy and Style by Kim Marcus G2G4 (4.8k points)
Kim, I wonder if that note should be there at all.  Who are those three people?  have they given their permission to be discussed on WT?

If I were going to keep the note there, I would remove the word "Event" and label it a DNA note.

Good question and why I'm asking. How do I use that information?. It seems incomplete and unactionable, but I'm not sure. So, I felt before deleting it, I felt I should ask the question.

I like your idea on how to record it. Let's see if anyone else has similar input.

Thanks, Kim

Now that I look at it again, I can't see that it has any meaning at all for the profile!  (The meaning it has is for the descendants.)

3 Answers

+2 votes
 
Best answer
Kim, while Edison has created an interesting, generalized source citation for yDNA as it applies to Benjamin Ward's profile, I recommend you delete the three names in the Research Notes section. None of them appears to be a WikiTree member, so discussing their DNA is a privacy problem.
by Bennet George G2G6 Mach 2 (23.1k points)
selected by Kim Marcus
Good catch, Bennet. I was down in the STR/SNP weeds and overlooked that.
That's what I said!
That helps a lot.

Thanks Kim
You sure offered a boatload of things to consider. Thanks, I will use your suggestions as reference point when I get to my next sticky wicket.

Kim
Thanks for the best answer star, Kim. Julie was on the same track, but, of course, you can't star a comment.
Sorry, Julie. I didn't mean to duplicate your efforts. I interpreted your comment as a question rather than a recommendation.
No problem, Bennet.  I wasn't looking for a star; thus the comment.
+3 votes
I haven't really got into using the DNA features yet but there are features to help you record DNA test information. Help page is here: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:DNA_Features
by Rob Pavey G2G6 Pilot (210k points)
Thanks Rob, I too need to reread that section and learn the DNA ropes. Kim
+2 votes

Hi, Kim. I glanced at the profile and, as it is, there isn't adequate information in that Research Notes section to turn it into a reference citation. But you just might be able to tweak something out of it with a little creativity.

There is a "Ward, Wardle, Warden, Warder, Wardlow" DNA project at Family Tree DNA (see https://www.familytreedna.com/public/ward?iframe=ycolorized) and "WARD #5: Subgroup B" seems to be the correct place to look...and it includes both the May and Godfrey surnames mentioned. But "1291" isn't a reference to any kit number in that group. (I know I'm not answering your actual question yet; I'm just sorta exploring out loud.) 

One of the two May surname entries states that the name was changed from Ward, and the two with the surname Godfrey indicate their earliest known patrilineal ancestor to be Seth Ward, Cambridgeshire, circa 1595, as does one of the Ward test-takers. This information doesn't line up well with Ward-2187 on WikiTree, but I'll let someone else wrestle with that date and location and the conflicting dates for his supposed father, Ward-2191.

One of the Godfreys has taken a Big Y full sequencing test and his haplogroup (R-BY16590) is consistent with the two Ward men whose haplogroup listings are in green text (R-L47 and R-U106), denoting that the relevant SNPs have actually been tested rather than a haplogroup merely predicted, which are the ones in red text.

We can rule out the last person shown in that group, kit #105254, as being the Ward referred to in the Research Notes because he would be a GD of 2 from all the others (does mean he doesn't in that group, though). But any of the three with the Ward surname above that could be your test-taker. It's a shame one of them hasn't also taken a Big Y test, but there are no conflicts or disagreements in that public data to imply that the Research Notes are wrong. The GD of 1 would be against the modal CDY value 37-37 for that group. That's a notoriously fast-moving and sometimes erratic marker, so I personally wouldn't think it means much in these particular matches.

All of the earliest known ancestors shown in FTDNA projects are user-provided. In other words, a test-taker just types in the name and dates (we hope) and there is no reference to a genealogy or a researched tree. Without actual input from a test-taker and providing what's called a TiP report, you'd have to back-in to the reference citation (and, mind you, I'm not talking WikiTree policies about marking ancestors "Confirmed with DNA" here; just constructing a citation).

In Evidence Explained, Elizabeth Shown Mills shows her recommended, slightly-modified Chicago-style reference for the purpose like this:

[Corporate Author], "[Database or Tool Title]," [Type & Version], [Website Title (URL : Date Report Run or Data Downloaded), [Specific Data in Adequate Detail & Key Findings].

So, using nothing but publicly available information, we might adapt that format just a bit to get to something useful:

Family Tree DNA, Inc., Gene By Gene, Ltd., Y-Chromosome DNA Testing for Short Tandem Repeat (STR) markers and Single Nucleotide Polymorphisms (SNPs), "Ward, Wardle, Warden, Warder, Wardlow DNA Project," Debbie McArdle, administrator (https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/ward/about : accessed 1 December 2021). Citing: "WARD #5: Subgroup B" and the 67-marker or greater test results of seven men who state they are descended from [[Ward-2187|Seth Ward]] or his sons. All seven test kits (06685, 58090, 107737, 120178, 144403, 144403, and 67436) show as either a genetic distance of zero or a GD 1 on marker CDY; the deepest tested haplogroup branch is R-BY16590, which is consistent with the others shown as R-L47, R-U106, and R-M269, or R1b1a1b.

I'm famous for very short citations.  laugh

But ya gotta explain why and how the reference is relevant and, without personal input from any test-takers on WikiTree, ya just gotta wing it.

Last up, you'll note that, for clarity, I included the ISOGG long-form name for R-M269. And if you read the very first sentence of Benjamin Ward's biography, it says: "Benjamin Ward (YDNA Haplogroup R1b1c) was the son of...."

There's an issue there. While the designation R1b1c was retired and deprecated almost a decade ago, two of its defining SNPs are/were R-PF6279 and R-V88. Under the current nomenclature, they delineate the R1b1b subclade, or branch. They and R1b1a (R-L388, R-PF6468) both descend from R1b1, or R-L754. The thing is, they split from L754 roughly 14,000 or 15,000 years ago. So either that statement about Benjamin being R1b1c (now R1b1b) is incorrect, or the information I found at the Ward FTDNA project is incorrect. Because those yDNA haplogroups wouldn't have shared a common ancestor since before the end of the last ice age and around 4,000 years before the start of the Neolithic Period in the Near East.

None of this may have been helpful in the slightest, but I had fun...and got in my 40 minutes of detective work for the evening.  wink

by Edison Williams G2G6 Pilot (444k points)

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