How many sources are needed on a Profile.

Question

Hi Just a quick question I hope. How many eg "Marriage" Birth etc sources are needed for profiles. Is one sufficient or just keep putting them on,Thanks for any attention as im still learning Wiki Tree.

Comments

99.9% of the time every source I've ever found yields a bit of extra information.  I would say 100% of the time but I have found that with Texas Death records the same information is listed in different sources.  But I would say the more the better.  Every single profile represents a life and is worthy of a 1000 page book in my thinking.

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Thanks Vincent Think im getting the message that more is better than less. Just love the Quck response from fellow wiki treers

 

Healey-268 Susan

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I've spent over a £1,000 (British pounds) on purchasing these documents over the last few years and thought I could use them.

I am confused as a recent question I asked - basically I have to get confirmation from the issuing authority and country for permission to add a certificate re: data protection as they own the copyright to the image.  So I've had to remove over 100+ certificates that I've purchased from all over the world.  These date from 1837 to 1901.

Then I had to remove 550+ images of newspaper clippings, parish records etc. Again some of these I've had to purchase and they date back to 1580 - but for each one I require permission to use. 

What I've now done is just transcribe them.

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Yes Trish, you can cite records but when considering whether or not to post images of them, you'll need to see if their use is restricted by either copyright law or usage agreements from the place you got them from.

Transcriptions of public records are probably fine. But use caution if transcribing from published works. For example, many profiles of early New England immigrants include ver batum transcriptions extracted from Anderson's Great Migration series. That series is copyrighted. We can cite and quote from it but not post full transcriptions of a given immigrant's entry. We're still cleaning those up.

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Hi Jillaine Smith

I'm referring to birth, marriage, death certificates - then parish re baptism, marriage, burial.

Newspapers etc - family notices, classified adverts.

Also one member 'we have the original book' wrote a medical book so presume we can quote this as it's his copyright - he died in 1928 and the book has been passed down the generations eg to his son, who died, passed to his son who died and passed to me.  Presume I now hold the copyright to his book.

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Trish, there's no one blanket rule about certificates. Depends on how we obtained them. If I purchased a death certificate from a town clerk's office and that office had no restrictions on copying or subsequent use, then I could post an image of it here. Most local governments don't have such restrictions but a few do.

If I downloaded that same death certificate from Ancestry.com, via my paid subscription, I am bound to the usage agreement I signed when subscribing which said that I can use downloaded images for my own personal use and they cannot be placed into  another commercial web site. Wikitree is -- while free -- a commercial web site. Usage agreements vary across sites and can even change over time on a given website.

I have found Judy Russell an amazing resource for understanding the legalities of genealogy research. See her blog at thelegalgenealogist.com

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Some I have purchased from the GRO (Britain), Scotland, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Ireland, Zimbabwe and also the USA.

Yes we own the certificate but even our 'own' birth, marriage certificates are legal documents and owned by the government hence copyright.

I am certainly not going to write to each of these countries either by email or letter to see if they will let me use the image (Zimbabwe I've been waiting 28 months already just to find and locate another certificate).  100+ letters etc.  It would take a long drawn out process to find out yes/no.

Again 1000+ parish documents from various countries.  550+ newspaper clippings most of which are purely one line eg "Mr Smith of Apple Cottage age 64 died on the 4th inst."

Personally all the work involved would take months and possibly years.

Many kind thanks Jillaine Smith.

Answer 1

Hi Susan...I'll use multiple marriage or baptism sources if they contain different reference ID or digital reference numbers.  Also, if the rite was performed in two or more venues (which seems to be common with Banns of marriage and some Christenings).  Can too much information be bad?  Best Wishes, Fred

Comments

I think the accepted standard is that we should try and find 3 sources for each fact.  That is not always possible but I would think that more is better.

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Thanks Dale Grateful for your attention. Will  certainlykeep in mind what you say. Sometimes when ones doing Family research one feels very much alone.

Answer 2

Hi Susan - Only one is "required" however, I believe the "more the better".

Keep in mind that if your only source is an Ancestry Link (or paid site) -- this is not really a source but a "repository".  As many do not have subscription accounts at Ancestry (or the like paid sites), this information is not "viewable" even with the link used. and therefore you cannot even see "what family" is involved.

I made a little "template" like this: Sometimes it is one source and in that case you can copy a <ref name="BMD"> in place of the beginning <ref>

Name -<ref>Source</ref>
parents -<ref>Source</ref>
Birth -<ref>Source</ref>
Marriage Spouse Name-<ref>Source</ref>
Death -<ref>Source</ref>

Comments

Thanks Sandy, know that with tricky peofiles there will only be one SourceThanks for Quick response Just love this site

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Just a side comment on "citing" from Ancestry or other paid services.  Right now Family Search which is typically my "free" go to site for citing is being extremely buggy so sometimes I can find what I need easier on Ancestry. Since I am trying to get all of my very extensive tree transferred to WikiTree (with the intention of making the profiles prettier, more complete and cited with all free sources eventually) as quickly as possible, if the source I can access the easiest is Ancestry right now, I will cite it from there.

My thought process here is that at least someone looking at the profile will KNOW there is a source out there even if they can't view the current citation. It gives them something to look for as opposed to leaving it uncited and them not knowing if a source exists. It also makes it easier for me to go back when time permits and know exactly what I am looking for on Family Search particularly if the name or dates are a bit off and make it challenging to find the source. I don't in general cite "family trees" though I may mention that certain information has been drawn from that type of source and needs further proper citation because sometimes those are the only sources that aim us in the right direction on where to look...someone's great grandmother remembered something but no one thought to actually document it kind of thing.

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Thanks Sandra. I am thinking that you and i work the same way as I use Family Search and Ancestry also, i also use Family Tree Now which i think is Ancestry. Thanks for your attention on this Issue, with a number of peoples views its been really Helpful to me. Another Brillian site i use is Family Tree Circles they are very helpful at finding Source information. Im feeling alot more confident about what im doing now, Just gotta keep searching  and completing my profiles with No Sources First Id say as im getting the impression that they are most important.Thanks again Sandra.

 

Healey-268

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Susan, yes appears so.  Familiar with all these.  One other FYI -  I have had some really good luck with is the Roots World Connect  Project.  It has been around forever.  You can do an advanced search here and select "Notes, Sources, Descendants" and this will give you a really reduced list, plus an indicator of what/where info is likely found.

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/

I then sometimes include the "individual tree link" under the "See Also" section in the Bio. Joel Hager's Southern West Virginia Research is very good.

Regards

Answer 3

Three of my father's siblings were never mentioned by anyone within the family. A serendipitous web-search found a birth certificate for two, and a death certificate for the other. I created WikiTree profiles for all with only a single document for each to prove they existed. The certificates were identical to the forms used to record the known family menbers, and the parentage was identical.

 

If I have to reject the certificates as proof for the three mystery siblings, then I would have to reject the similar certificates for the seven people I walked the earth with.

Comments

Thanks George get wot youre saying. Learning a little more every time i post a question on G2G

Answer 4

Three of my father's siblings were never mentioned by anyone within the family. A serendipitous websearch found birth certificates for two, and a death certificate for the other. I created WikiTree profiles for all with only a single document for each to prove they existed. The certificates were identical to the forms used to record the known family menbers, and the parentage was identical.

 

If I have to reject the certificates as proof for the three mystery siblings, then I would have to reject the similar certificates for the seven people I walked the earth with.

Comments

Know what youre saying about not being talked about within a family. My fathers side of the family were never mentioned. In fact it was only through researching my family tree that i learned they even existed . The starting point for me was Birth certificates that my mother Gave me. So glad i did it. Guess theres loads of people out there who can relate to our experience aswell. Thanks again Susan

Healey-268

Answer 5

I would only add to the other great answers here that it's not so much the quantity of the sources as the quality of them. I've seen profiles where there were a high number of sources but they were all things like Ancestry family trees, the US/International Marriage Index or -- my least favorite -- the Millennium File. 

If I find more orginal or higher quality sources, I add those and remove the kaka ones above. I am aware that there are some who disagree with me -- including people I highly respect -- who think we should include all sources mentioned or found, even the horrid ones. But doing so, in my mind, *when better sources are known,* conveys approval of them.