Harry Frederick Scriven (1887 - 1945)

Born 10 Jan 1887 in Petersburg, NY

Ancestors

Husband of Ethel May (Card) Scriven — married 7 Sep 1919 (to 1921) in North Adams, MA

Problems/Questions Profile manager: Bob Scrivens [send private message]

Biography

(Note: Because of their close birthdays, this Harry Scriven, my grand uncle, and Harry Scriven/Scrivins are easily confused. So, some details about each are included here. This other Harry will be referred to as "The New York Harry" and my ancestor as "the North Adams Harry." Also, on FamilySearch there are listed Harry F (Petersburgh, 1-10-1887), Harry W. (b. 1928, Chemung), Harry S (1886, Grafton), Harry W. (1928, Elmira) Scriven and more.)

Harry Scriven was one of four brothers born to my great grandparents, Frederick Scriven and his wife Martha Fletcher . He was my grandfather Clarence's brother, the "traveling salesman."

Uncle Hank's Description

According to my uncle Hank Scriven, the most identifying characteristic about Harry Scrivens was his habit of wearing straw hats. He was a "flamboyant salesman" for the Syracuse Rug Company of New York. Hank said Harry could "sell blubber to Eskimos" and "Every time he sold a rug, he bought a new hat. He said they only cost a buck, but insisted his cost more since they had to match his 'snazzy' suits--and Harry was the cat's meow, just ask anyone who ever saw him."

Hank included a clipped article from the North Adams Transcript, telling how Harry discovered a new suit was missing from his closet when he lived in Clarksburg, a small village north of North Adams. He played detective and discovered the suit in a pawn shop on Center St, which was downtown. He went to the police, went back to the pawn shop, and worked out a deal to repurchase the suit for a nominal fee, since the police assured Harry that litigation would cost him more. [Harry sounds like he liked the figure he cut in public, and the way he dressed was a big part of that, so the hats, the suits, and his cars were all part of his public persona.]

Harry was an inch taller than the other two brothers, and "many who knew him said that he was the handsomest of all his brothers." His wife was "wild about Harry as most women were who knew him." Hank called him the "Errol Flynn of his day."

Harry loved cars and "he was happiest when driving one." Pictures show his cars in the Willow-Dell, a short street off Union St. in N. Adams, right next to the river. "The flood of 1938 washed away most of the charm of the Willow-Dell," Hank wrote.

"It was fascinating for us younger Scrivens children to sit up at night and listen to Uncle Harry's tales of the road. He covered most of the New England states and part of New York selling carpeting to the wealthy who apparently found him as fascinating as we children. We looked forward to his dropping in . . . mostly in the wee hours of the morning, his ruddy face aglow with excitement." Later, he got a job for Clarence, my grandfather, working for the Syracuse Rug Co.

According to a North Adams Transcript Article, dated Monday, July 22, 1914, Harry and his wife lived in Troy, NY. He lived in Berlin, NY, at the time of his mother Martha's death, 1927. (Although there was a City Directory for North Adams in 1925 that said he was a salesman who lived on 57 Union St. The same source for 1928 has him living on 150 Eagle St. and in 1930 on 5 Magnolia Terance, same city.) An Obituary in the Troy Times lists Harry's wife as a survivor of her mother, Mrs. Rila Martin Cox, who lived in Cohoes, NY; at that time, Harry and wife lived in Watervliet, NY. (Her sister was Mrs. Fred Keller of Syracuse, NY) Another article in the Waterville Times newspaper said Harry and wife were visiting their mother, Mrs. Lottie Reed. (This is confusing because the NY Harry is listed as living in Watervliet on his WW I draft card and the 1915 NYS Census--so, aside from the North Adams Transcript article, these facts may not be for North Adams Harry but NY Harry.)

Harry's middle name

Harry's middle name may have been Frederick (after his father's); there is a draft registration card record listed in Williamstown in 1917 that has him living in Petersburgh, NY, but working for a Thomas Steele in Williamstown, MA; and then again for WW II for a Harry Frederick Scriven in New York, but living in MA. (on Ancestry.com) In another place, it looked like the middle name might be Zebulon. On Harry's Social Security record, 12 Mar 1976, his name is also listed as HARRY FREDERICK SCRIVEN.

He lived in Berlin, NY, at the time of his mother Martha's death, 1927. Newspaper articles (including the Troy Times) have him as a resident of Troy and Watervleit, NY.

Two Harrys

As I said earlier, because of their close birthdays, my grand uncle, Harry Scriven and the other Harry Scriven, born in Hoosick Falls, are easily confused. So, some details about each are included here. (My ancestor will be referred to as "the North Adams Harry," the other Harry as "The New York Harry.") There are two sets of records for Harry, one in or near North Adams, Massachusetts, and one in New York State that lists him in a way just different enough to make me wonder if there were really two separate Harrys--or, if it were one man leading a double life. Fortunately, the records clear that up.

Harry from North Adams

The 1900 US Census shows him living in Adams, age 13, with brothers Henry and Clarence. His mother appears In the North Adams Directory for 1907; he is listed living on Tyler St. He works as a "doffer" and his mother as a "spooler"; these were jobs in local cotton mills, probably Arnold's Print Works.

In the 1910 Census, he was 24, living in Grafton with his wife Eudora Phally "Nettie" (age 32) with what appear to be her children from a previous marriage: Clarence, Alfred R, and Norman A Dickerson. He was then working as a mill hand in a cotton mill. (His middle initial appeared then as "S.") Cousin Jack Swift says this woman is related to Eurdora Phinnette Scriven, who was married to his grandfather, William R. Scriven, and then divorced to marry Hiland Main. Later records discovered prove this to be true.

The U.S. World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918, (June 5, 1917) show him as "Harry Frederick" (using his father's name for his middle one), married, and working on a farm (owned by Thomas Steele? --the writing not very legible) in Williamstown, MA. His DOB is clearly written as January 10, 1887. His eyes are listed as light blue and his hair is brown. He was living on Hancock Road in Williamstown, MA.

In The North Adams Transcript of Monday, Sept. 9, 1919, p. 10, Harry Frederick Scriven of 73 Holden St. married Ethel May Card of 72 Main St. "quietly" at 9 a.m. the day before in the Baptist Church. "They were unattended." She was a weaver at The North Adams Rug Co. "Mr. Scriven is also a weaver and is employed in local mills." "Both of the young people," the article concludes, "are well known and have many friends."

In 1920 United States Federal Census , Harry and Ethel lived on River St. in North Adams, MA. While he was 30, she was only 22. He was still working at Arnold Print Works.

In the North Adams City Directory of 1924 and 1928, Harry F. is listed as a salesman living on Marshall St. His brother Clarence and their father, Fred R. are living in the Willow Dell (probably a business address, since Fred is listed as a harness maker). In the 1925 Directory, Harry was now listed as a salesman and living at 57 Union St., N. Adams. In 1930, he is living at 5 Magnolia Ter., N. Adams.

In the 1930 US Census, Harry was 41, living in N. Adams with his wife, Florence (age 35) whose parents are from New York. The occupations are turned around, with her listed as a salesman and his listed as "none." Probably a clerical error by the census taker.

This Harry has a WW II Draft Registration card at age 53 (that would be in 1940), again with the middle name of Frederick, living on 20 Bank St., N. Adams (an apartment building off Main St. in North Adams, from my memory.) He worked for the Wagner Rug Company of Fredenburg, NY, out of Seneca Falls, Schoharie, NY. (This occupation matches my Uncle Hank Scriven's narrative of Harry as a rug salesman.) His signature clearly shows an initial "F" for his middle name. (My uncle Hank listed "Zebulon" for a middle name, which, since it appears nowhere else, is probably inaccurate.)

The New York Harry Scriven

But there is another record in the 1930 US Census where a Harry Scriven (no middle name listed) is 50 (that would mean an 1880 birth date, 7 years before the North Adams Harry's DOB), listed as living in Watervliet, New York, with a woman named Mabel E (38), who is a bookkeeper at a paper mill while he is an accountant at a clothing mill. The Troy Directories of 1902 and 1909 also list him as a bookkeeper on Billings Ave. In the US Census for 1910, this Harry (31) is listed as living in Troy, NY with his wife Florence (28). He is listed as a bookkeeper in a brush factory office. In the 1915 Troy Directory, he is listed as a manager at 208 8th Ave. In the Troy Directory of 1916, he is listed as a salesman, again as manager in 1917. By the 1923 Troy Directory, his residence is 430 Third Ave. There, the name in the record is spelled "Scriben." It says his age was 24 for a first marriage. (All of this makes the New York Harry distinct from the listing in the 1930 Census in N. Adams.

The entry for Harry himself in that census had him listed as 61. His wife is May Scriven, probably short for Mabel E. listed above, and 45 years old. They all lived in Colonie Town, Albany, NY, which is not far from where my son lives today.

In the US Census of 1940, there are both a Harry Scriven and a Harry Scriven, Jr. listed.

Making Sense of the Two Draft Cards

The New York Harry also has his own WW I Draft Registration Card, BUT listing Florence as his wife (the same name as North Adams Harry in the 1930 US Census in N. Adams above! ); this card is signed simply as "Harry Scriven" with no middle initial as the Massachusetts one above. This Draft Registration is also stamped "DUPLICATE." This card also lists his DOB as Sept 11 (the last "1" could be a "0"), 1877 (but the year is crossed off and changed). This is important because it is different from the DOB for the North Adams Harry, but still not the earlier one that shows up in most NY records (1879 or 1880). At first, this led me to wonder if one Harry had registered in two different places. But two different state draft cards listing the same wife? Unlikely. The easiest answer is that there were two different Harry's, each with a different wife named Florence, and the rest of the records seem to bear that out.

His wife in another listing is "May" Scriven, and 45 years old. They all lived in Colonie Town, Albany, NY, which is not far from where my son lives today. No Children are listed.

Also, in the US Census of 1940, there are both a Harry Scriven and a Harry Scriven, Jr. listed. Harry Jr., 12 years old, was listed as living with his mother, Marion (May?) Scriven (listed as head of household), age 42 in Horseheads Town, Chemung Co, NY( this is west of Binghamton, south of the Finger Lakes, just north of Elmira, and near the northern Pennsylvanian boarder.) This is probably NOT my relative Harry's family either, since the 1930 US Census listed Harry Jr. (same d.o.b.) as "Harry W." and says his father (no name given) is from Pennyslvania, which would make sense geographically. So the New York Harry is also a separate person from the one who originally came to Pennsylvania.

At 61, the 1940 US Census shows the New York Harry is still an accountant, living in Colonie, NY, with his wife, May (probably the shortened form for Mabel, above). So this marriage lasted at least 30 years according to the US Censuses from New York.

Crossing the State Line

There are references in the North Adams Transcript Personals of Harry Scriven of the Albany Business College coming to town in 1898 and 1899 to spend some time with family and friends. He is with a Lewis Scriven from Hoosac Falls for another 1899 visit where his residence is listed in S. Cambridge, NY (a small town just over the NY line, north of Troy.) Earlier in 1886, he went to Johnsonville, NY with a Jennie Scriven and Miss Della Bennett. (Note that Lewis Scriven is listed as NY Harry's father in the NY Harry's profile.)

These dates are pretty early, with North Adams Harry being barely a teenager with his 1887 DOB. If he were older, as in the New York listing, his visits would make more sense for a man born around 1880.

To sum up, we have two Harry's both in Massachusetts and New York for the middle of their adult lives. The one in Massachusetts is my grandfather's brother, while the other NY one looks as though his father's name was Lewis. It would be nice to link the second to a line in the Rensselaer Co. area to finally clear up the potential of mixing them up.

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Sources

Hank Scriven's book of Scrivens

Harry F. Scriven in City Directory for North Adams, MA, 1925.

NORTH ADAMS TRANSCRIPT, North Adams, MA 25 Nov 1927 Obituary of Martha Fletcher Scriven; Hank Scriven's book on the Scrivens

1930 US Census [1]

1940 US Census for New York

U.S., World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918; U.S., World War II Draft Registration Cards, 1942.

Harry Frederick Scriven, SSN: 016079342, U.S., Social Security Applications and Claims Index, 1936-2007.

Acknowledgments

Thanks to Bob Scrivens for starting this profile. Click the Changes tab for the details of contributions by Bob and others.