Sorting out the two Alpin profiles

Date: [unknown] [unknown]
Location: [unknown]

This page is part of the Scotland Project and is being used to track changes recommended on a profile that appears to have combined two different people of the same name, through a series of 28 merges to get to the current profile for Alpin Dungal (MacEchdach) of Scotland (abt.0778-0834). So, who were they?

Contents 1 Name Considerations 2 Data 3 Notes 3.1 Alpin#1, Brother of Eochaid, Eochaid's Son 3.2 Alpin#2, Father of Kenneth I 4 Profile History 5 Recommendations 6 Sources

Name Considerations

Alpin, as the name is best known today may also be represented as Elphin and/or Aelfwine. They are all variants of the same name.

Data

• Prefix: None
• Proper First Name: Alpin
• Preferred Name: Alpin
• Other Nicknames: Pictish Thane of Fortrenn Refers to another person and should be removed
• Middle Name: Dungal - refers to a different person, not associated with Alpin and should be removed.^[1]
• LNAB: MacEchdach
• CLN: of Scotland
• Other Last Name: mac Echdach Refers to the same name and should be removed
• Date of Birth: 778 - Appears to be an incorrect assumption but needs further investigation
• Place of Birth: Fordoun, Kincardineshire, Scotland
• Date of Death: 20 Jul 0834 also given as 20 Jul 836
• Place of Death: Galloway, Dumfries-shire, Scotland
• Father: Eochaid (MacÁeda Find) mac Áeda Find (abt.0750-) - Disputed and should be detached
• Mother: Fergussa Unuisticc Pict (abt.0755-abt.0803) Her name is also given as Urgusia and is disputed, therefore should also be detached
• Spouse: Unuistic (Picts) of Scotland (0782-)
• Children: Cinaed (MacAlpin) of Scotland (abt.0810-0858), Domnall MacAlpin I (abt.0812-0862), Unknown (Alpin) Mac Alpin (abt.0813-), and Mailmara (MacAlpin) NicAlpin (0842-)

Notes

1. There are references to several individuals named Alpin.^[2][3]
2. There were two Alpins, sons of Eochaid. First, the father of Kenneth, may have reigned before Kenneth in Dalriata. Second, the brother of Eochaid, Eochaid's son, reigned in Pictland from 726 to 728, and may have reigned nominally in Dalriata before 741.^[4]

• Alpin, son of Ferat - mentioned in the preface pg. cxxiii^[5]
• Alpin, son of Oengus - Skene, preface pg. cxxiii, Table of Kings^[5]
• Alpin, son of Wroid - Skene, preface pg. cxxiv^[6]
• Alpin, son of Aoedh - Skene, preface pg. cxxviii^[7]
• Alpin, son of Eochal and father of Kenneth - Skene, preface pg. cxxviii^[7] Note: Eochal is likely a variant spelling of Eochaid.

Alpin#1, Brother of Eochaid, Eochaid's Son

1. Alpin was the brother of the Eochaid, Eochaid's son, who acquired Dalriata, also in 726. The only evidence of this relationship is the fact that Fland names "Alpin, Eochaid's son," (Eochaid the Poisonous) as the king who reigned after Dungal and before Muiredach^[1] ~ Theory: This Alpin would be an uncle of Alpin, father of Kenneth.
2. Drust and Alpin reigned together for five years.^[8]
3. The son of Echach, King of Scots, by a Pictish princess, became king of Picts in 726 with the ejection of Drust, which his brother Eochaid, became king of Dalriata by the ejection of Dungal.^[9]
4. Fland's first "Alpin, Eochaid's son," to whom the Duan gives a 4-years' reign, was the earlier Alpin, brother of the Eochaid who was father of Aed Find.^[10]

Alpin#2, Father of Kenneth I

1. Alpin is named son of Eochaid, and father of Kenneth.^[11][7]
2. Alpin is named son of Urgusia (Mother) and of Eocha-annuine IV (father)^[12] succeeded Dungal in 833.
3. Eocha IV, King of Scots married Urgusia, sister of the Pictish kings Constantin and Ungus II, who's issue, Alpin, did not live long enough to claim the Pictish throne in right of his mother.^[13] His son, Kenneth, however, did.^[14]
   1. His name is derived from his mother, who was a Pictish princess.^[15]
   2. In 836, he set sail from Kintyre to Kyle, and laid waist to the territory between Ayr and Doon.^[15]
4. As set out in the Book of Ballymote, pg. 148-149, cited by Anderson:^[16]
   1. Constantine, son of [Culen], son of Indulf, son of Con- stantine, son of Aed,* son of Kenneth, son of Alpin, son of Eochaid, son of Aed Find, son of Eochaid, son of Domangart, son of Fergus, son of Ere, son of Angus, son of Fergus Ulach, son of Fiachra Tathmael, son of Fedlimid Lamdoit, son of Cince, son of Guaire, son of Cindtai, son of Coirpre Riata, son of Conaire Coem, son of Mug-lama, son of Coirpre Crom-chend, son of Daire Dornmor, son of Conaire Mor, son of Eterscel, son of Eogan, son of Ailill, son of lar, son of Dedad, son of Sin, and so on.
5. Pedigree of the Scottish Kings, appended to version E of the Chronicle of the Kings of Scotland ; Skene's Picts and Scots, pp. 133-134, as cited by Anderson:^[17]
   1. King William the ruddy [was] the son of Henry, the son of David, the son of Malcolm, the son of Duncan, who was the grandson of Malcolm, the son of Kenneth, the son of Malcolm, the son of Donald, the son of Constantine, the son of Kenneth, the son of Alpin, the son of Eochaid, the son of Aed Find, the son of Eochaid, the son of Eochaid, the son of Domangart, the son of Donald Brecc, the son of Eochaid Buide, the son of Aidan, the son of Gabran, the son of Domangart, the son of Fergus, the son of Ere, the son of Eochaid Muin-remor, the son of Angus Fir, the son of Fedlimid Aislingech, the son of Angus Bujdnech, the son of Fedlimid Ruamnach, the son of Sen-chormac, the son of Cruitlinde, the son of Findfece, the son of Achircir, the son of Eochaid Antoit, the son of Fiachra Cathmail, the son of Eochaid Riata, the son of Conaire, the son of Mug-lama, the son of Lugaid, the son of Ellatig, the son of Coirpre Crom-chend, the son of Daire Dorn-mor, the son of Coirpre, the son of Admor, the son of Conaire Mor, the son of Eterscel, the son of Eogan
6. the pedigree in Fordun, Chronica, IV, 8 (i, 151), as cited by Anderson:^[17]
   1. Kenneth was the son of king Alpin, son of Eochaid \Achay\ son of Aed Find, son of Eugenius, son of Findan, son of Eugenius, son of Domangart, son of Donald Brecc, son of Eugenius Buide, son of Aidan, son of Gabran, son of Domangart, son of Fergus, son of Erth."
7. Prose and Verse Chronicles inserted in the Chronicle of Melrose, pp. 16, 223-224, s.a. 843^[18]
   1. Alpin, king of the Scots, died ; and his son Kenneth succeeded him. And of him it is said  : — " Kenneth, Alpin's son, is said to have been the first to reign in Scotland, waging many battles. After expelling the Picts, he reigned for sixteen years ; and he died at Forteviot." He was called the first king, not because he was [the first], but because he first established the Scottish laws, which they call the Laws of Mac-Alpin.
   2. [Alpin] was killed in Galloway, after he had entirely destroyed and devastated it. And then the kingdom of the Scots was transferred to the kingdom of the Picts.
8. Chronicle of the Canons of Huntingdon ; Skene's Picts and Scots, p. 209, as cited by Anderson:^[19]
   1. Alpin, King of the Scots, was conqueror, and he was so exalted with pride because of it that [another] battle was [fought] by [them] on the thirteenth day before the Kalends of August in the same year ; and he was conquered by the Picts, and killed. His son Kenneth [succeeded to his father's kingdom].
9. Distracted by domestic wars and thereby weakened, the Picts were unable to resist Kenneth, son of Alpin, when he acquired their government in 843.^[20]
10. Alpin was killed in 836.^[21] which may be a miscalculation. According to Skene, it is stated in the Chronicle of Huntingdon, that in 834, the Scots encountered the Picts on Easter Day when many Pictish nobles were killed, and Alpin was victorious, and that on the 13th of the Kalends of August in the same year, he was defeated by the Picts and killed.^[22]
11. Chronicle of Dalriata, versions DFI ; Skene's Picts and Scots, pp. 149, 172, 288^[18]

Profile History

• Created as MacEchdach-2 on 25 Feb 2013 with no birth date, and a death date of 834, and name Alpin MacEchdach. Unsourced
• The image of the church was added to the profile
• The biography written by Catherine Evans for WikiTree, was added 8 June 2013. Several unrelated LDS events were added at the same time, as well as a list of the various GEDcom creations/merges, and some unreliable sources. At this same time, the birth date of 778 in Fordoun, Kincardineshire was added, as was the death date of 20 Jul and death location of Galloway, Dumfries-shire. Both are unsourced. The CLN was also changed at this time, to of Scotland. Parent profiles added: (Mac Áeda Find-1) and (Of the Picts-3)
• A Nordic notice was posted on the profile, the LDS information was removed, as was the list of GEDcom contributions, on 1 Feb 2014. A Other Last Name of mac Echdach was added, and the biography written by Catherine Evans was removed.
• The Nordic notice was removed 18 Jun 2015
• GEDcom junk/Ancestry sources removed on 18 Jun 2015, sources added
• Middle Name and Nickname added 5 Aug 2015
• Information on the lineage, from Wikipedia, added 5 Aug 2015
• PPP added to profile 5 Mar 2020
• Research Note section added 1 Apr 2021
• Space page link added for this page on 14 Jun 2022

Recommendations

This is still being researched, in order to clearly sort out the two profiles. This page will be changing rapidly while research is conducted and recommendations are written.

The current profile clearly represents two different men, with the dates and relationships clearly confused. My recommendation is that the existing profile remain as that representing the father of Kenneth, and that a second profile be created for Alpin, brother of Eochaid, who was the father of Aed Find. Unless someone finds something I missed, there's no evidence that Alpin, father of Kenneth... was the son of Aed Find and I propose that the father's profile be detached with a {{Disputed Parents|Father}} tag added to Alpin's profile.

The new profile for Alpin, brother of Eochaid needs to be carefully researched before it is created to ensure there is no further confusion. I recommend that this profile also be brought under Scotland Project for management, to ensure that it doesn't create further issues.

Sources

1. ↑ ^{1.0 1.1} Anderson, Alan Orr; Early sources of Scottish history, A.D. 500 to 1286; (Oliver and Boyd, Edinburgh, London, 1922); pg. 222
2. ↑ Anderson, Alan Orr; Early sources of Scottish history, A.D. 500 to 1286; (Oliver and Boyd, Edinburgh, London, 1922); Introduction, pg. cxxvi
3. ↑ Skene, William Forbes; Chronicles of the Picts, Chronicles of the Scots, and other early memorials of Scottish history; (H. M. General Register House; Edinburgh, 1867); Available online
4. ↑ Anderson, Alan Orr; Early sources of Scottish history, A.D. 500 to 1286; (Oliver and Boyd, Edinburgh, London, 1922); Introduction, pg. cxxxvi
5. ↑ ^{5.0 5.1} Skene, William Forbes; Chronicles of the Picts, Chronicles of the Scots, and other early memorials of Scottish history; (H. M. General Register House; Edinburgh, 1867); Preface, pg. cxxiii; Table of Kings
6. ↑ Skene, William Forbes; Chronicles of the Picts, Chronicles of the Scots, and other early memorials of Scottish history; (H. M. General Register House; Edinburgh, 1867); Preface, pg. cxxiv
7. ↑ ^{7.0 7.1 7.2} Skene, William Forbes; Chronicles of the Picts, Chronicles of the Scots, and other early memorials of Scottish history; (H. M. General Register House; Edinburgh, 1867); Preface, pg. cxxviii
8. ↑ Anderson, Alan Orr; Early sources of Scottish history, A.D. 500 to 1286; (Oliver and Boyd, Edinburgh, London, 1922); Introduction, pg. cxxv
9. ↑ Skene, William Forbes; Chronicles of the Picts, Chronicles of the Scots, and other early memorials of Scottish history; (H. M. General Register House; Edinburgh, 1867); Preface, pg. clxxxvi
10. ↑ Anderson, Allan Orr; Early Sources of Scottish History
11. ↑ Anderson, Alan Orr; Early sources of Scottish history, A.D. 500 to 1286; (Oliver and Boyd, Edinburgh, London, 1922); Introduction, pg. cxviii
12. ↑ Chalmers, George; Caledonia, or a historical and topographical account of North Britain from the most ancient to the present times with a dictionary of places chorographical & philological; ( Paisley : Gardner, 1887); Vol I, pg. 300
13. ↑ Skene, William Forbes; Chronicles of the Picts, Chronicles of the Scots, and other early memorials of Scottish history; (H. M. General Register House; Edinburgh, 1867); Preface, pg. clxviii
14. ↑ Chalmers, George; Caledonia, or a historical and topographical account of North Britain from the most ancient to the present times with a dictionary of places chorographical & philological; ( Paisley : Gardner, 1887); Vol I, pg. 332
15. ↑ ^{15.0 15.1} Chalmers, George; Caledonia, or a historical and topographical account of North Britain from the most ancient to the present times with a dictionary of places chorographical & philological; ( Paisley : Gardner, 1887); Vol I, pg. 302
16. ↑ Anderson, Alan Orr; Early sources of Scottish history, A.D. 500 to 1286; (Oliver and Boyd, Edinburgh, London, 1922); Introduction cliii
17. ↑ ^{17.0 17.1} Anderson, Alan Orr; Early sources of Scottish history, A.D. 500 to 1286; (Oliver and Boyd, Edinburgh, London, 1922); Introduction, pg. clvii
18. ↑ ^{18.0 18.1} Anderson, Alan Orr; Early sources of Scottish history, A.D. 500 to 1286; (Oliver and Boyd, Edinburgh, London, 1922); pg. 270
19. ↑ Anderson, Alan Orr; Early sources of Scottish history, A.D. 500 to 1286; (Oliver and Boyd, Edinburgh, London, 1922); [https://archive.org/details/cu31924028144313/page/270/mode/1up pg. 270-271
20. ↑ Chalmers, George; Caledonia, or a historical and topographical account of North Britain from the most ancient to the present times with a dictionary of places chorographical & philological; ( Paisley : Gardner, 1887); Vol I, pg. 213
21. ↑ Chalmers, George; Caledonia, or a historical and topographical account of North Britain from the most ancient to the present times with a dictionary of places chorographical & philological; ( Paisley : Gardner, 1887);Vol I, pg. 353
22. ↑ Skene, William Forbes; Chronicles of the Picts, Chronicles of the Scots, and other early memorials of Scottish history; (H. M. General Register House; Edinburgh, 1867); Preface, pg. clxxxvii