John Talbot (abt. 1426 - 1453)

Born about 1426 in England [uncertain]

Ancestors

Husband of Joan (Cheddar) Talbot — married about 1443 (to 17 Jul 1453) in England

Descendants

Died 17 Jul 1453 at about age 27 in Castillon, France

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Biography

John was the 4th son of John Talbot, 1st Earl of Shrewsbury, by his second wife Margaret Beauchamp.^[1][2].

He was also the great great grandson of Warin Lisle who held the Manor and Lordship of Kinston L’Isle, which manor was granted to John by his parents John Talbot and Margaret Beauchamp. The Lordship had become extinct with Elizabeth Berkeley 4th Baroness Lisle, his grandmother at her death in 1422

In consideration of this and his preeminent position, the King granted that he and his heirs should be Lords and Barons of l'Isle, and barons and peers of the kingdom, with seats in parliament and councils.^[3] See research Note 1

26 Jul 1444 He was created Baron Lisle by Henry VI. By Prioress and of the said date by authority of parliament.^[4]

30 Oct 1451 Creation of John Talbot, lord of Lisle as viscount of Lisle. ^[5]

Family

The history of the family disputes for the possession of the Castle and Barony of Berkeley, which arose early in the 15th century has been called the longest law-suit on record, On the death of the 10th Lord Berkeley in 1417, the Earl and Countess of Warwick claimed the Berkeley inheritance, as well as that of de Lisle, starting a ruinous struggle between the families. As a part of this ongoing conflict Lord Lisle, surprised and broke into Berkeley Castle, and seized Lord Berkeley and his four sons, whom he kept prisoners eleven weeks, and compelled to sign various deeds and bonds. ^[6] See research note 3

1443 He married Joan Chedder aged 18, the widow of Richard Stafford and daughter of Thomas Chedder and Isabel, youngest daughter and coheir of Robert Scobhull.^[7][8]

They had at least 3 children (See research note 5)

1. Thomas Talbot
2. Elizabeth Talbot
3. Margaret Talbot

He was noted in the will of his father John Talbot Earl of Shrewsbury, 1 Sep 1452 and proved on 18 Jan 1453/54^[9].

Career

1444- justice and commissioner in Salop and other counties, being distinguished from half-brother as "John Talbot of Lisle, Knight." ^[8]

1444 became a member of the Guild of Merchant Taylors of the Fraternity of St. John the Baptist in the City of London. ^[10]

1444/5 summoned to Parliament by writs directed Johanni Talbot de Lysle, militi. ^[11]

23 Aug 1450 keeper of Fulbrook park and manor, Warwickshire, for life, and in the same year he was sent to suppress a rising in Wales. ^[8]

Nov. 1451 associated with father, Earl of Shrewsbury, in custody of the castle of Portchester and survey of Portsmouth. ^[8][12]

July 1452: a commissioner of oyer and terminer touching treasons, rebellions, lollardies etc in eleven Western counties. ^[8]

30 January 1452/3 summoned to Parliament by writ directed Johanni Talbot vicecomiti de Lisle militi. ^[8]

Jan 1452/3: bound himself to serve in Guienne under the Earl of Shrewsbury with 80 horsemen (including himself, 2 bannerets, and 4 knights), all duly harnessed and arrayed, and 800 soldiers on foot. ^[8]

1 Feb 1452/3: present in Star Chamber to hear protest by Ralph, Lord Cromwell, concerning accusations of treason. ^{[citation needed]}

6 March 1452/3: attended Parliament at Reading and soon after crossed into Guienne. ^[8]

Death

On 17 October 1452, his father the Earl of Shrewsbury landed near Bordeaux with a force of 3,000 men and took the city a few days later, followed by most of western Gascony By early 1453 Charles VII of France responded. The Battle of Castillon followed on 17 July 1453. Historians regard this decisive French victory as marking the end of the Hundred Years' War. John Talbot, Earl of Shrewsbury, led his army in an attack on a fortified French encampment without waiting for reinforcements and ultimately lost the battle and his own life. His son John Talbot 1st Viscount Lisle who arrived with 3000 reinforcements was also killed.^[13]

The will of John Talbot (the younger), dated March 1452/3, was made at 'Warwick's ynne' in the parish of St Sepulchre outside Newgate, when he was going to Europe in the King's service. He left all his goods to his mother whom he made executrix; the will was proved 18 January 1453/4. His widow died 15 July 1464. ^[8]

Research Notes

1. Sir Nicholas Harris Nicolas contended that the The most important allegations in this patent have been proved to be false, for neither Warine de l'Isle nor his immediate ancestors were peers of the realm by the tenure of that manor, which was not held by them in capite of the Crown, but of Robert de Insula, by knight's service: nor was ever the paternal grandfather or great grandfather of Warine de l'Isle a baron; nor was Sir John Talbot seized of the manor of Kingston l'Isle at the time of his creation, nor did he ever possess it. It is also material to state that as Sir John Talbot died before his mother he never was one of the coheirs of Warine, the last Lord l'Isle.
2. The 1444 charter in effect created a new Barony with a new limitation, but was intended to bestow the old Barony created by the writ of 1357, as it contained a clause granting the precedence held by 'the said Warine or any other person heretofore having the aforesaid Barony'. ^[8]
3. 1444 Sir John Talbot was created by charter Lord and Baron of Lisle with remainder to his heirs being lords of the manor of Kingston Lisle; the charter falsely asserting that the grantee's ancestor, Warin de Lisle, and his ancestors, by reason of possessing the manor of Kingston Lisle, had from time whereof the memory of man was not to the contrary the name and dignity of Baron Lisle, with seat in Parliament, etc^[14]
4. 1451 John [Talbot] earl of Shrewsbury, Margaret his wife and John Talbot, Lord Lisle, their son; and James Lord Berkeley, William Berkeley, knight, James Berkeley, Maurice Berkeley and Thomas Berkeley esquires. : James, William, James, Maurice and Thomas have demised to John, Margaret and John the castle of [Berkeley] ... for a term of two years, saving to James, and six people serving him, reasonable living and easements"^[15].
5. Cokagne suggests another daughter Eleanor Talbot married by 28 Hen.VI (1449/50) to Sir Thomas Botiller. She died a widow and sp 30 ]une 1468 (Inq. p. m., 8 Edw. IV, no. 39), her heir being her brother Thomas. Time-line does not fit. See Eleanor Talbot. ^[16]

Sources

1. ↑ Visitation of Shropshire Taken in the Year 1623. Edited by Grazebrook G and Rylands JP 1889. Part II. The Publications of the Harleian Society Vol 29. Talbot Pedigree p451.
2. ↑ Visitation of the County of Worcester 1569. Publications of the Harleian Society. Vol. XXVII. 1888. Talbot Pedigree pp131-136.
3. ↑ Report of Proceedings on the Claim to the Barony of L'Isle ...With Notes, and an Appendix Containing the Cases of Abergavenny, Botetourt and Berkeley ...By Great Britain. Parliament. House of Lords, Sir Nicholas Harris Nicolas · 1829 Page 10.
4. ↑ Calendar of the charter rolls preserved in the Public Record Office Prepared under the superintendence of the Deputy Keeper of the Records. v. 6 (1427-1516) Page 50
5. ↑ Calendar of the charter rolls preserved in the Public Record Office Prepared under the superintendence of the Deputy Keeper of the Records. v. 6 (1427-1516) Page 114
6. ↑ Transactions - Bristol and Gloucestershire Archaeological Society by Bristol and Gloucestershire Archaeological Society Publication date 1876 [https://archive.org/details/transactionsbris03bris/transactionsbris03bris/page/n340/mode/1up Page 305ff
7. ↑ Visitation of the County of Gloucester 1623. Maclean and Heane (Eds). Publications of the Harleian Society Vol XXI. 1885. Newton Pedigree, p115.
8. ↑ ^{8.0 8.1 8.2 8.3 8.4 8.5 8.6 8.7 8.8 8.9} The accounts of the Talbot household at Blakemere in the County of Shropshire, 1394-1425 Ross, Barbara, 1928 or 1929- 2005Page 153
9. ↑ Vane G H F (1904) Will of John Talbot, First Earl of Shrewsbury, 1452. Transactions of the Shropshire Archaeological and Natural History Society. 3rd Series, Vol IV, 1904, p371-378.
10. ↑ "Appendix G: To Memorial XXXII," in Memorials of the Guild of Merchant Taylors of the Fraternity of St. John the Baptist in the City of London, ed. C M Clode (London: Harrison, 1875), 617-650. British History Online, accessed October 10, 2023, http://www.british-history.ac.uk/no-series/taylors-guild-london/pp617-650.
11. ↑ The Complete Peerage (Edition 1, Volume 4) by [Cokayne, George Edward], 1825-1911. [from old catalog] Publication date 1893 Page 114
12. ↑ Wikipedia contributors, "List of governors of Portsmouth," Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_governors_of_Portsmouth&oldid=1144487104 (accessed October 10, 2023).
13. ↑ Wikipedia contributors, "Battle of Castillon," Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Battle_of_Castillon&oldid=1170378407 (accessed October 9, 2023).
14. ↑ The complete peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom, extant, extinct, or dormant by Cokayne, George E. (George Edward), 1825-1911 Publication date 1910 Page 728
15. ↑ Talbot and Berkeley. 1451. BCM/A/1/1/82. Berkeley Castle Muniments GC4274. [1].
16. ↑ The complete peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom, extant, extinct, or dormant, Vol. 8 Page 59 Note c)

See also

• Wikipedia contributors, "Viscount Lisle," Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Viscount_Lisle&oldid=1171247825 (accessed October 9, 2023).
• Wikipedia contributors, "John Talbot, 1st Viscount Lisle," Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=John_Talbot,_1st_Viscount_Lisle&oldid=1130767735 (accessed October 9, 2023).
• Royal Ancestry by Douglas Richardson Vol. V, page 122-123
• Parochial and family history of the parishes of St. Mabyn and Michaelstow in the county of Cornwall by Maclean, John, Sir, 1811-1895. Internet Archive
• Proceedings of the Somersetshire Archaeological and Natural History Society by Somersetshire Archaeological and Natural History Society Publication date 1849 Page 48 ff
• Magna Carta Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 2nd Edition, 2011 By Douglas Richardson Page 172