Reliable source linking Thomas and Edmond Stiles

Question

Has anyone found a reliable source for Thomas Stiles (father of Stiles founders of Windsor, CT) being the son of the Edmond Stiles of the 1619 Visitation of Kent (http://www.theweald.org/B10.asp?bookid=WBK412&v=0&xid=S&xnm=1&pd=1)? I have found this link referred to all over the internet, but I cannot find any primary sources. What I thought may be a promising lead was an LDS IGI record (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.2.1/MM1C-CTK&view=basic). I obtained a copy of the original submission with the submitter's contact information, but it turned out that the submitter did not have any reliable sources for the submission. Thanks for any help.

Answer 1

Shall I presume that you have already read the opening pages and appendices of "the Stiles Family in America", Specifically pages 2-8, and the appendix starting on page 699   https://archive.org/details/stilesfamilyinam00stil

Comments

Yes I have.  I suppose that new information does not surface too often.

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Just to add after some reading of the books and reviewing  the wikitree profiles:

The Edmond Stiles (stiles-1328 and stiles-381) and Mary Berney (Breney-17) currently linked as the parents of Thomas' (stiles-31) correspond to the Edmund Styles and Mary Berney on the chart you cited who are also given on SFA page 706 . According to this book there are only 4 children: I. William (m1. Anne Eversfield; m2. Mary Clarke) ; II. Edmund (m. Catharine Scot); III. Anna (m. Geo. Franklyn); and, IV. Margaret (m. Geo. Needham)

If the dates for Edmond (1524-1550) and Mary (b. 1533) were accurate he died  when his wife was abt age 17. The entry on SFA page 706 indicates Anna and Margaret were twins. I think suggesting a fourth pregnancy might be hard to justify given Mary's supposed age.

With that said I believe the dates for Edmond, husband of Mary Berney, are in error. He should be born of Langley Park, Beckenham, Kent in 1538 as per the pedigree you cited,  as referred to in the history of Beckenham Parish, and as given in the History and Topographical survey of the county of Kent, Vol 1. (not as is given in the current wikitree profile;1524 at Sanborn, Warwickshire)

The Thomas Stiles, whose children emigrated to Connecticut., (viz. stiles-31.) is discussed at SFA Page 22 as Thomas "the carpenter" and wife Maria. Their children are, if I have followed the text well, Henry, Francis, John, Christoper, Thomas, Joan, Elizabeth, *sidebar: I see no proof of the surname for Maria (joan-4), and raise a redflag because SFA on page 22 mentions another Thomas Stiles with a wife Joanne and daughter Joan so I can see a mash-up of people having happened there. This Thomas had children in Millbroke, Bedfordshire, although SFA speculates he was not from there.

Perhaps a better fit might be found with the Style family give in the visitations of Bedfordshire. This family is Style of Steppingley, with Steppingley being abt 3 miles from Millbrook by road. The visitation shows recurring given names of John and Thomas and Joan.. This site http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=42440 mentions that a John Style purchased Watkins Manor in 1562, it then passed to his son Thomas Style, and is last mentioned in 1604. This would make it contemporary to the Thomas Stiles of interest (stiles-31)

I also ran across this site http://pages.123-reg.co.uk/indi1-628805/steppingleyvillageassociation/id4.html that claims "Members of the Styles family emigrated to America in a sister ship to the Mayflower."

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I had found the Bedfordshire Visitation before, but I also could not make those dates match (http://archive.org/stream/visitationsofbed19blay#page/144/).  John, who emigrated to America in 1634, was born in 1559 according to the parish records.   His son, John Jr., was born in 1633.  So, I cannot make that family fite nicely into the Bedfordshire Visitation Style pedigree.  I do agree that the names common to the family are very compelling, however.

The ship the the Stiles family was on, the Christian, sailed the decade after the Mayflower, so I don't know that I would call them sister ships.  I will try to contact somebody on that website to track down some more information.

 

Thank you very much for the thoughts and the links.

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No Problem.

Having had a chance to look at it a little more in depth, I agree that the Bedfordshire visitation Styles are not the Styles you are looking for - however the details of the Styles pedigree do match with another Thomas Styles from "The Stiles Family in America", Page 22, viz. Thomas who had the garden, husband of Joanne. father of Joan who married William Heddye. Assuming the records from Milbrooke parish are for these Styles of Steppingly it does not seem unreasable to me that other Stiles of Milbrooke also resided in Steppingley.

I think pursuing the other Steppingly Village Asscoaiton to find out more about the styles that emigrated will provide a better return on your time investment than sifting through the records of Kent.

As regards to the Mayflower mention, the wikipedia entry for mayflower mentions a second ship named Mayflower (not the famous Mayflower) that made voyages from England to America in 1629, 1630, 1633, 1634, 1639, and was never seen again after departing on it 1641 voyage.  As the Christian of London voyage carrying the Stiles set sail in 1634 I think it is plausible that it was a sister ship to the Mayflower. Just not THE Mayflower.

Best of Luck

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There are certianly some interesting leads here that will give me something to look into.

This is the reponse that I received from the Steppingley website:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <indra.bimba@talk21.com>
Date: Jul 10, 2013 6:02 AM
Subject: Re: Steppingley History
To: "indi@steppingley-village.co.uk" <indi@steppingley-village.co.uk>, "sam@steppingley-village.co.uk" <sam@steppingley-village.co.uk>
 

Hello 

 

Thanks for your enquiry, Tina Cook, who wrote that page on Steppingley History died a few years ago and we don't have access to her resource materials. If you are interested in researching this further, there may be some information online on the Bedford Archive Office website.

 

http://www.bedfordshire.gov.uk/CommunityAndLiving/ArchivesAndRecordOffice/SearchOurCatalogues.aspx

 

Regards

Indi Jackson

 

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If I might suggest this starting with asking for a scan/copy/photo/transcription of AU47/7/8

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I was sent copies of documents AU47/7/8 (http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/28139944/person/12003584498/media/1?pgnum=1&pg=0&pgpl=pid|pgNum) and FN913 (http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/28139944/person/12003584520/media/2?pgnum=1&pg=32814&pgpl=pid|pgNum).  Niether is extremely interesting, though FN913 suggests a link between the Kent and Bedfordshire families.

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Robert - 

Thanks for all you're doing on the Stiles and for starting this g2g. Your one name project's sources were helpful as I looked into this question. 

Let me start by answering the question and saying I have note been able to find a reliable source and would further conclude that the sources I can find suggest Thomas was not a son of Edmond Style by Mary Berney. 

As WikiTree stands today, Thomas Stiles would have children (like Francis Stiles-26) who appear to be Gateway Ancestors, as they show Magna Carta and royal lines through Thomas' mother, Mary Berney-17. Given that Francis Stiles doesn't appear in any of our research, we would classify him as a "Questionable" Gateway (see [[Category:Questionable_Gateway_Ancestors]] for our sub-project, where we review Questionables).

As a bit of background, I started reviewing this Magna Carta and royal line with Margery Despenser-26 and then through her Wentworth issue. Mary Berney-17's grandmother was Margaret Wentworth-21. Margery Despenser-26 and Sir Roger Wentworth are well known, covered by Cokayne's Complete Peerage, Douglas Richardson's trio of Royal Ancestry series, etc. Margery Despenser-26 is a known ancestor of at least a dozen or so well researchrd Gateways and is somewhat popular as a result. 

In Royal Ancestry, by Richardson, Vol. 3, p 406, he shows a profile of John Berney-16, Esq. (Mary Berney-17's father), who married (1st) Margaret Reade and (2nd) Alice Ferrer. In this he mentions Mary as the wife of William Dennis, Esq. (This is a change from Richardson's earlier work, where he had shown her as married to Robert Jenney. Richardson has changed the Mary who married Robert Jenney to her aunt.) 

John Berney-16 left a will dated 22 Jul 1553. In this will, Mary is mentioned and would appear to still be unmarried. (http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/b/o/l/Andrew-N-BOLS/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0110.html) 

I have also seen the marriage record of a Mary, daughter of John Berney, Esq. who m. Edmond Style born 27 Mar 1538 on Mary's profile. And sources like Stiles Family in America p 706 that show her having issue.

So, in relation to this line, my first question would be do you think you have the correct Mary?   

Moving on to Thomas:

Well sourced reference for Edward does not show him having a son Thomas:

http://www.archive.org/stream/stilesfamilyinam00stil#page/704/mode/2up

Neither does Edward's pedigree:

http://theweald.org/d10.asp?bookid=WBK412

Then, as has been pointed out on Thomas' profile and what I think you guys were discussing early in this post regarding what Styles Family in America has to say about Thomas origins, basically "not much is known about Thomas... he was a carpenter in Milbrook, Bedfordshire."

Some other notes regarding dates: Given the father Edmond was born 1538 (per his marriage record), then Thomas' profile says he was born 1550(?). Mary lived to age 98? Born when her father was 18 in 1828? When did she and Edmond get married? Edmond lived to age 12, yet had mulitple children? 

I don't think there is sufficient proof at this point to have Thomas connected to Edmund and Mary and I would still have questions about Edmund and Mary.

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PM, I also have not found any better sources since this posting was made. I have removed Stiles-31 as a son of Style-18 and Berney-17 until a better source is found.

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A fellow researcher shared an article with me that cites "The Records of the Worshipful Company of Carpenters: Vol. VI, Court Book, 1573-1594" as evidence of an Edmond Stiell being the father of a Thomas Stiell at the right general time and in the right general area (http://www.hinmanfamily.com/rr6.htm).  I found a transcription of the original records published in 1939 by Phillimore, London and verified that the article is accurate.  Of course, there is not enough information included in the record to conclude without a doubt that this is the same Thomas and Edmond, but may be useful for cross-referencing other records.

Here is a transcription of the record of interest:
"Gilbert Thomplinson ys admitted to have as his Apprentice Thomas Stiell of the age of xxiiij years the sone of Edmond Stiell deceased of Samborn in the countie of Warwik Husbandman for the tearme of seaven years begyninge at the feaste daie of the Nativitie of St John Baptiste next ensueng the date hereof"

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I am also researching the same connection.  I have not been able to find anything that you have not already mentioned.  Have you found any new info?