Joan (Marreis) Boteler (abt. 1205 - abt. 1225)

Born about 1205 in England [uncertain]

Ancestors

Wife of Theobald (Botiller) Butler — married about 1220 in England [uncertain]

Descendants

Died about 1225 at about age 20 in England [uncertain]

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Biography

Brooks (1932)^[1] noted that about August 1226, in a letter to the king^[2][3], Geoffrey de Marisco, Justiciar of Ireland, stated that Theobald 'Walter' had married his daughter and had a son by her. Brooks suggested that the daughter of Geoffrey probably married Theobald Walter around 1222 and was thus most likely the daughter of Geoffrey's first wife, whose name is unknown (not Eva de Bermingham who was his second wife).

Children:

• Theobald le Boteler (born about 1223)^[4]

Joan was deceased by 04 Sep 1225 as on that date the King requested that Theobald marry Rohese, heiress of Croxden and Foundress of Grace Dieu Monastery, co Leicester, only daughter and heir of Nicholas de Verdon, of Alton, Staffordshire.^[4]

The Ormond Pedigree

In 1379, James le Botiller, earl of Ormond, claimed the lands of a Stephen de Marreys, knight, on the basis of his descendancy from Joan Marreys.^[5]

"Sir James le Botiller, earl of Ormonde, of full age, is his kinsman and heir, as follows:—William de Marreys, knight, his ancestor, to whom the said lands descended by hereditary right and who was seised of them in fee when he died, had issue a son John and a daughter Joan. On William’s death the lands descended to the said John as his son and heir, and on John’s death to Herbert de Marreys as his son and heir, and on Herbert’s death to the said Stephen as his son and heir. Stephen died without heir of his body, so that the right of inheritance reverted to the right heirs of the aforesaid Joan. She was married to Theobald le Botiller, generally called the second, and had issue a son called Theobald le Botiller the third, to whom her right of inheritance descended. From Theobald the third it descended to Theobald the fourth as his son and heir, and from Theobald the fourth to Theobald the fifth as his son and heir. On the death of Theobald the fifth without heir of his body the right of inheritance descended to Edmund le Botiller as his brother and heir, and from Edmund to James le Botiller, father of the above-mentioned earl of Ormonde, as his son and heir. So that the said earl is kinsman and next heir of Stephen. All other persons now living of Stephen’s race and kindred (nacione et parentela) are bastards born out of wedlock".

Similar pedigrees were recorded in 5 Richard II [1381]^[6] and 3 Henry IV [1401-1401].^[7] In these instances the father of Joan Marreys was not noted but she was stated to be the sister of John Marreys and the mother of Theobald le Boteller. See also IPM of John Tryvet, knight, 18 March, 22 Richard II [1398/1399].^[8]

In summary the pedigree from the Ormond claim is:

I William de Marisco (the father of John and Joan)

II Joan de Marisco (Marreys) married Theobald (II) le Botiller

III Theobald le Botiller (III)

IV Theobald le Botiller (IV)

V Edmund le Botiller

VI James le Botiller

VII James le Botiller

VIII James le Botiller

The issue with the above pedigree is that John de Marreys (or de Marisco) the son of William de Marreys was born about 1254 and died around 1290. Theobald le Botiller, son of Joan was born around 1223, died in 1248, and he already had a son Theobald born around 1242, suggesting that the latest Joan could have been born was around 1208, making her at least 46 years older than her alleged brother, John. The dates simply do not fit.

Brooks^[1] also concluded that based on the dates the le Botiller descent from William de Marisco father of John de Marisco must be rejected.

Presumably there was some truth in the le Boteller claim but it missed out two generations and the link to the line of Stephen de Marisco was through a William de Marisco, the brother of Geoffrey de Marisco, Justiciar of Ireland.

Sources

1. ↑ ^{1.0 1.1} The Family of Marisco (Concluded). By Eric St. John Brooks. The Journal of the Royal Society of Antiquaries of Ireland; Seventh Series, Vol. 2, No. 1 (Jun. 30, 1932), pp.50-74. JSTOR.
2. ↑ Royal and other historical letters illustrative of the reign of Henry III : from the originals in the Public Record Office. 1862. p 290 Internet Archive.
3. ↑ Calendar of Documents, relating to Ireland, preserved by Her Majesty's Public Record Office, London. 1171-1251. 1875, p 218, Item 1443 Internet Archive.
4. ↑ ^{4.0 4.1} The Complete Peerage. Vol. II II Bass to Canning, 1912, p 448 Internet Archive.
5. ↑ M. C. B. Dawes, A. C. Wood and D. H. Gifford, 'Inquisitions Post Mortem, Richard II, File 3', in Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem: Volume 15, Richard II (London, 1970), pp. 20-30. British History Online http://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/vol15/pp20-30 [accessed 30 September 2019]. Item 74.
6. ↑ M. C. B. Dawes, A. C. Wood and D. H. Gifford, 'Inquisitions Post Mortem, Richard II, File 19', in Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem: Volume 15, Richard II (London, 1970), pp. 202-217. British History Online http://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/vol15/pp202-217 [accessed 30 September 2019]. Item 525.
7. ↑ Wrottesley, G (1905) Pedigrees from the Plea Rolls Collected from the Pleadings in the Various Courts of Law, A.D. 1200 to 1500, from the Original Rolls in the Public Record Office. p 226. Internet Archive
8. ↑ M. C. B. Dawes, H. C. Johnson, M. M. Condon, C. A. Cook and H. E. Jones, 'Inquisitions Post Mortem, Richard II, File 106', in Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem, Volume 17, Richard II (London, 1988), pp. 460-477. British History Online http://www.british-history.ac.uk/inquis-post-mortem/vol17/pp460-477 [accessed 27 September 2019].