Looking for help regarding Charles Henry Payne born around 1885, possibly in Canada.

Question

Hi,

I’m researching my great grandfather Charles Henry Payne. He was born around 1885 and died not long after 1923. He married Lilian Alice Wood in Mar 1921 in Oxford when he was 35.

His father is listed as George Payne deceased on the marriage certificate. He was said to have been a rigger in the dockyard.

I have reason to believe he served in the Royal Canadian Mounted Police due to the only photo of him he’s wearing his uniform.

Other than this i’ve drawn a blank.

Any advice gratefully received.

Paul.

Comments

I found a Charles H. Payne

Death  1935 Pictou, Pictou, Nova Scotia

Not much else - record is on familysearch.org

Answer 1

Marriage 1920

Name:	Charles H Payne
Registration Date:	Jan 1920 [Feb 1920]  [Mar 1920]
Registration Quarter:	Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district:	Oxford
Inferred County:	Oxfordshire
Spouse:	Lilian A Wood
Volume Number:	3a
Page Number:	1940 Source Citation General Register Office; United Kingdom; Volume: 3a; Page: 1940

Comments

I found 273 Charles Henry Payne’s born about 1885 on Ancestry alone.

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I have a copy of their marriage certifcate only just added the date to his profile.

I have feeling he was born in Canada but his parents weren’t.

I have messaged the RCMP in case they could find a record of him serving but haven’t had a reply back as yet.

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Charles Payne

 in the 1891 England Census

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Name:	Charles Payne
Gender:	Male
Age:	10
Relationship:	Son
Birth Year:	1881
Father:	George Payne
Mother:	Maria Payne
Birth Place:	Portsmouth, Hampshire, England
Civil Parish:	Portsea
Ecclesiastical parish:	St Luke
Residence Place:	Portsea, Hampshire, England
Registration district:	Portsea Island
Sub registration district:	Landport
ED, Institution or Vessel:	20
Neighbors:

Piece:	869
Folio:	6
Household Members:	Name Age George Payne 48 Maria Payne 41 Albert Payne 16 Charles Payne 10 Daisy Payne 6 George Payne 4 Rosie Payne 3 Arthur Payne 1

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Charles H Payne

 in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007

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Name:	Charles H Payne
Death Age:	43
Birth Date:	abt 1881
Registration Date:	Jul 1924 [Aug 1924]  [Sep 1924]
Registration Quarter:	Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district:	Portsmouth
Inferred County:	Hampshire
Volume:	2b
Page:	480

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Charles Payne

 in the UK, Military Deserters, 1812-1927

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Name:	Charles Payne
Age:	19
Birth Year:	Abt 1880
Birth Place:	Portsea, Hampshire
Desertion Date:	8 May 1899
Desertion Place:	Grange
Publication Date:	16 May 1899
Regimental Number:	8216
Military Corps:	3rd Hants Regt

Answer 2

I found a Charles Payne (age 8) in the home of George Payne (age 39) in the 1891 Canadian Census.  I couldn't find any other Charles around the proper agein teh database in the home of a George Payne https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?app=Census1891&op=img&id=30953_148159-00546

Comments

Thanks for that. I did find a couple of passenger lists on Ancestry there were possibles as well. It’s a bit like a needle in a haystack at the moment.

Answer 3

Also if you haven't seen you can contact the Library Archives of Canada regarding RCMP member pre-1920 https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/genealogy-and-archival-research

Comments

Thanks for that, i’ve sent them an email. Think it’s a different one to the one I sent a message to before.

Answer 4

In trying to get more information, I went down the rabbit hole, and managed to pull out a death notice for Lilian Payne; is this Charles' wife?

PAYNE - Mr. Payne and Family of the late LILIAN PAYNE, wish to thank all relatives, friends, neighbours, doctors and staff of O1 Ward. Broadgreen Hospital, family doctor, Rev Cyril Dunsby, directors and staff Robert Myles, for beautiful floral tributes and expressions of sympathy during their recent sad bereavement, and special thanks to Mrs. Carter for her love and kindness during the last years. - 19 Frances Way, Liverpool 16.

- Liverpool Echo, Liverpool, England, 8 Feb 1961, page 3.

Comments

I’m not 100% certain but I believe she died in Islington. Henry himself died when my grandmother and her sister were quite young so not long after 1923.

Answer 5

I do not agree that his uniform is Royal Canadian Mounted Police.  Even in the 1800's when they were called North West Mounted Police they wore a scarlet jacket so they would be distinguishable from military personnel.  About 1900 when they became known as Royal Canadian Mounted Police they wore red jackets and still do as their dress uniform.  My guess is that his uniform is British military, possibly Navy.

Comments

I agree.  It looks like British military but definitely not RCMP.

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Yeah it’s only a guess based on a black and white photo we have of him. I’ve asked my mum if she can find the original as I think it’s probably clearer to see what sort of uniform it is.

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Yeah so i've had a reply back from RCMP and they don't have any records for him so looks like you're correct.

I'm guessing it's possible the age was wrong on the marriage certificate and he was in fact born in 1881, which would match the Charles born in Portsea.

I couldn't help notice that the person in that census had a sister Daisy, my grandmother was called Daisy. Also on his death cert it listed Nellie as the sister who reported the death. My Great Aunt Violet's middle name was Nellie.