Was Isabel Chase the mother of Richard Baldwin?

Question

Richard Baldwin was the father of PGM immigrant Joseph Baldwin.  Wikitree currently shows that Richard's mother was Isabel Chase, with a royal ancestry.  Is there any evidence for this?  If not, this connection should be deleted.

Answer 1

I find her listed repeatedly as the mother of Richard, but have not found any sources.

http://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p39.htm#i1160

Comments

Should it be Isabel Unknown as an Isabel is mentioned in a Will.

---

That makes sense to me, Maggie.

PM, the manager of the royal-titled-noble-commoner website once mentioned his regret that he hadn't documented his sources when he first started, and there are some known errors on that huge website.  In later years, his lineages based on Douglas Richardson's books are quite useful, but of course his undocumented stuff is open to question.

---

Isabel Chase - her name is Isabella Harding, I have searched for Isabella Chase Harding and found Marriage license, Birth Certificate from Netherlands.

Richard Baldwin, aka Thomas Richard Baldwin

Answer 2

Isabel Chase 1545-1594 is the mother of Richard Baldwin 1576-18 FEB 1632.

She was married to Richard Baldwin 1540, who was Richard Baldwin 1576 father.

Richard Baldwin and Isabella, sources I am not able to copy my sources, one of sources shows Isabel Harding Chase 1545, another in England show Richard Baldwin the father as Thomas Richard Baldwin (this information is not for your records, but when searching records looks for this name also).

Comments

Candy, can you give some more details on the sources or links? With an Isabel Harding as a wife, and an Isabel Chase as a mother, we should be very clear about the two.

As things appear on WikiTree today, Richard Baldwin-268 was married to "Isabel Harding" (Harding-353). I think John is asking about Baldwin-268's mother, currently showing another Isabel, Chase-193.

---

Both of the following books have limited review online, so I can't get to the sources page to see if they are of any help.  Maybe someone can access the details?

NEHGS Nexus: The Newsmagazine of the New England Historic Genealogical Society, Issue 4, New England Historic Genealogical Society, 1992

https://books.google.com/books?ei=qOPlVJH0DMqmgwTzmILoBQ&id=oEohAQAAMAAJ&dq=isabel+harding+chase&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=isabel+chase

A Genealogy of the Wives of the American Presidents and Their First Two Generations of Descent, by Craig Hart, McFarland, Nov 4, 2004

https://books.google.com/books?id=cSUTBQAAQBAJ&dq=isabel+harding+chase&q=isabel+harding+chase#v=snippet&q=isabel%20harding%20chase&f=false

 

---

Here is the url address for Candy's source:

genealogieonline.nl/en/stamboom-bremer/I2456.php

There is a note that the author has further information, but no source is cited.

---

Isabel Harding in the U.S. International Marriage Records 1560-1900 Spouse Richard Baldwin marriage 1598, Marriage State: England. I have the actual documents if there is a way to attach them in WikiTree.  Her maiden name was Harding before she became Isabel Chase.

---

Marriage 1598 Isabel Harding would be the wife of Richard Baldwin-268, born 1576, correct?

We're looking for that Isabel's mother-in-law, the wife of Richard Baldwin-269. That Richard died before 1566.

---

Thank you Candy -- from what you wrote, it appears that Richard Baldwin married Isabel (Harding) Chase, and then an imaginary Isabel Chase got added as his mother.  At this point, it seems that both of Richard's parents are uncertain, per this genforum post: http://genforum.genealogy.com/baldwin/messages/6931.html

If you have a scanned copy of Richard's marriage record, it can easily be uploaded to his profile using the "images" tab.

---

John the site you posted was 4 years ago. Genealogy.com will not let us update our data anyone has posted. I have web pages that are on the Internet that I posted through Genealogy.com and I have new updated information I would like to replace with what is on Internet, as of September 2013, when Ancestry.com bought Genealogy.com it is has stopped allowing anyone who was a member to update their web pages. Yesterday I tried to log in and they gave me a new log in, but I cannot figure out how to get a password. The message you are referring to is not my message, but I would not accept it as a source of fact, rather use trusted sources like from the National Archives, Federal Records, facts anyone can look up, and you will have a solid record.

---

Hi Candy, the question here regards the PARENTS of Richard Baldwin who married Isabel (Harding) Chase.  The forum page that I linked to gives two different sets of possible parents.  As far as I can tell, there is no evidence for the parentage of this Richard Baldwin, so I will go ahead and detach his parents.  If any evidence for his parents appears, then it will be easy to add them back.

---

I am a beginner to this site, so I emailed someone all the pedigrees and documents I had. Tell me how to get to his profile and I will gladly attach what documents I have. He is not part of my genealogy tree, I only researched this to answer the question, and I will be deleting the information, once this is settled. Richard Baldwin 1524-1530 died as a child, just for your notes. Richard Baldwin 1503-1553 married Lady Ellen (Apuke) Pooke 1507-1585. Richard Baldwin 1503-1553 parents are John S. Baldwin & Agnes Dormer.

---

Yes, we know she was married to Richard II Baldwin. We're trying to learn who the mother of Richard III Baldwin is.

Answer 3

According to "The Batchelor-Williams Families and Related Lines" (page 72) by Lyle Keith Richards (1976) Isabel Chase (wife of Richard Baldwin b.~1540) was indeed the mother of Richard Baldwin b. 1576, husband of Isabel Harding.  

Chronologically it is certainly more believable than having a 73-year old (Richard Baldwin, b.~1503) father, and a 66-year old (Ellen Apuke, b. 1510) mother.

Is there any evidence to discredit Mr. Richards' publication?

Note also that Ellen's will was dated 1566 (see Charles Candee Baldwin's "The Baldwin Genealogy from 1500 to 1881", page 20 [22]), so it is not likely that she was the mother of the Richard Baldwin born 1576 (husband of Isabel Harding).

Comments

Perhaps a better question to ask is: Is there any evidence to SUPPORT Mr. Richards' contention? I'm not saying that there isn't any evidence, but many secondary sources contain groundless claims reaching for imaginary noble ancestry. For that reason I'm inclined to be skeptical, but perhaps Mr. Richards has done his homework.

---

So true, John.   A Google search of this author seems to indicate he's a credible source, though it would be great to know where he got his info.

---

Pages 31 - 35 of "The Baldwin Genealogy, from 1500 - 1881.", which can be found at https://ia801407.us.archive.org/29/items/baldwingenealogy00bald/baldwingenealogy00bald.pdf contain a transcription of Richard Baldwin's will. It mentions his wife's sister Joan Chase, and does not mention any sons or daughters. Unless the transcription is a fabrication, Richard Baldwin (1540) and Isabel Chase could not have been the parents of Richard Baldwin (1576) who married Isabel Harding.
 

---

How do we know that this Richard Baldwin - of Dun-Dridge, Aston Clinton, County Bucks, who's wife in the will is named Christian [Tuckfield - see p. 35 of that publication] - is the same as Richard Baldwin of Cholesbury, County Bucks, who's wife is Isabel Chase?

---

Can anyone point to where I might find a copy (or images) of "The Batchelor-Williams Families and Related Lines" by Lyle Keith Richards? A search of worldcat.org doesn't show the book existing anywhere. worldcat.org indicates the Fort Worth library has some of his papers in its archive, but going to the FtW library website, I couldn't find anything.

In CC Baldwin's 1889 "Baldwin Genealogy Supplement", there is a will of Richard Baldwin transcribed on pages 990 - 991 (22 - 23 of the pdf file). It was dated Dec 23, 1630. It mentions sons Timothy, Nathaniel, and Joseph, and wife Isabell. Unfortunately, there isn't a hint as to Isabell's maiden name.