Remove PPP & Parents Elizabeth (Bold) Chase [closed]

Question

She's not part of a project & her parents are not cited and need to be removed. She's currently a descendant of Robert de Vere. She prob. needs to have her LNAB changed to Unknown not Bold.

Her father has some incorrect information which I've corrected - the real Sir Richard Bold was a Lancashire knight who was Lord of the Manor of Bold near Warrington. He has no connection to the manor of Hundrich near Chesham, Buckinghamshire - I think that was put in to make the connection work. It is a fantasy that he had a da. who married a copyhold farmer; it makes much more sense the real Elizabeth Bold married a Byrom, another established Lancashire family.

Comments

If the letter is correct . Then Matthew and Elizabeth's children were born between 1601 and 1617

( the registers are as far as I can see not digitised but  baptisms are in the IGI P020801, )

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looks like this Elizabeth wasn't born 1400s. Do you want me to change her birth year to about 1580 so folks don't need a pre-1500 badge to edit her profile? Same for her husband? (Children's birth years would need to be changed too, but they're not pre-1500.)

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Oo-er.

The Visitation book is from a manuscript collected by Peter le Neve, apparently a copy of the 1634 visitation, with many additions by later hands, printed in italics.  No italics here, so Matthew had 3 sons married by 1634 and the eldest had a kid.  The date against his name would mean that he was the informant, so obviously living.

Our Matthew has 8 kids with the same names, but dates a century earlier.

So he's a Conflation.  The Matthew with the descendants isn't the same Matthew that the wife and the other kids belong to.  The descendants must have dates that fit lower down.  The wife and the extra kids have been given made-up dates to fit.

Elizabeth Bowchiew's been mentioned before.

(And now I'm thinking Richard Bowle d 1626 actually is Elizabeth's father)

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Though actually he might not be a conflation, because there's nothing to say that the descendant lines were actually descended from an earlier Matthew living around 1520.  Perhaps they start with the next generation and need snipping off.

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https://books.google.com/books?id=gJstAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA9

Assuming Somerby's extract is to be trusted, Matthew's son Thomas is actually his grandfather.  This is why two John Chases marry two Alice Hardings.

 

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As Helen pointed out, the baptisms in the book are in P020801.

The book refers to a bigger Chase pedigree by Somerby.  Don't know if it's been published.  He was commissioned to hunt for missing millions.

But there's a hole.  Dunno if Somerby or the book is responsible.  Having established that Aquila son of Richard (uncle not grandson of Matthew) was baptized 1580, it then waves hands and shouts loudly and says Aquila had 2 sons Thomas and Aquila, the immigrants, with no evidence at all.

WikiTree is now in a muddle.  The immigrant Aquila b 1618 has been deparented, but his ex-father Aquila b 1580 is still claiming to be his father.

And then there are 3 other immigrant lines.

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oy. my head's spinning!

how do we go about fixing this?

to get back to Elizabeth & Michael... should we make [[Bold-64]] and [[Chase-16]] the ones from the 1634 Visitation & change the children's birth years? (son Richard m Mary Roberts in visitation & according to WikiTree)

does it matter that they're all Chace (not Chase) in the Visitation?

https://archive.org/stream/visitationofcoun5859byuphil#page/24/mode/1up/search/bold

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Chase-198 is the Thomas at the top in the Visitation and the PR.  Dunno where the 1520 dob comes from - too early for the PR.

Richard Chase-197 has the same dob, like they were twins.  But as you say Matthew's son Richard married Roberts, with completely different dates.  If Isabel's dates are fixed, she isn't theirs.

Matthew is the son of Chase-322, but who are his existing parents?  He's got whole lines of ancestry that are 3 generations adrift.

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I agree, this is all very confusing! 

Re: Bold-64 & Chase-16, I think it makes sense to change these profiles to have the right dates and connect the children to different parents. I think this was an error reading one of the pedigrees since they shared the same first names.

Chase-197 also has the wrong dates and his daughter probably wasn't Isabel Baldwin. Also, was he actually knighted? Plausible enough with their coat of arms but I'm still curious what these two generations did to lift themselves up the social ladder.

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Becoming the ancestor of an immigrant is often worth a posthumous knighthood.

They come from the same place as Sir Richard Bold and Lady Elizabeth Bowchiew the Earl's daughter.

Answer 1

Looks like this has been completed.

Comments

yup - the wrong parents have been disconnected, but I think there's still work to be done for this profile.