Am I barking up the wrong tree?

+13 votes
372 views
Hey there,

Something doesn't quite feel right with my research for this guy, as there are so many disconnects and uncertainties. But at the same time a lot of it would be very coincidental if it wasn't. I know Hartley and Ward are fairly popular names but...

If someone can help me unravel this mess, that would be amazing.

Thanks, and sorry to bother you again.
WikiTree profile: Joseph Hartley
in Genealogy Help by Day Garwood G2G6 Mach 2 (25.6k points)

3 Answers

+7 votes
 
Best answer

I don't think you are muddled.  Charles, the sibling: definitely mother's maiden name Ward 

The birth date on Joseph Wards  baptism entry (son of Hannah Ward, spinster) may have been mistranscribed. I think it reads 18 June 1843 not 18 August 1842.  (the bottom bit of the 3 is easy to miss but don't think the month looks like August).

 https://www.ancestry.co.uk/sharing/26148035?h=305746&utm_campaign=bandido-webparts&utm_source=post-share-modal&utm_medium=copy-url

In the comments section of the profile  another member has already suggested a birth registration which also ties in with this date

edit typo.

by Helen Ford G2G6 Pilot (474k points)
selected by Day Garwood

I agree with Helen that it looks like 18 June 1843, not 18 August 1842.

edited to add a missing word

Hi,

June 1843 would make more sense with the estimated year of 1844 on the censuses. Again, just goes to show how misleading transcriptions can be sometimes. Thanks for this info.

As for the birth registration, a birth in Brighouse would usually be registered in the Halifax district, not Dewsbury. But again, who knows. He's full of mystery, after all. Maybe I'll get that certificate at some point and see what it has to say. It could well be that he was born in Dewsbury, baptised in Brighouse and just used Brighouse on the Census.

Again, massive thanks for your help.
Just remember -- place of registration does not always equal actual place of birth.

And place of birth in subsequent census returns can differ depending on who is giving the information, and how the person writing it down determines what is said/meant. Especially when place names changed in the intervening 10 years.

Fair point. I think the only way to be sure is to get the certificates, as even now there are two possibilities:

*Joseph Ward June quarter of 1843 Dewsbury

*Joseph Hartley September quarter of 1843 Halifax

For a mid June birthdate, both are possible.

Could there even be a possibility that she

registered it as Ward in Dewsbury and then went to Halifax to reregister it as Hartley?
Just found a death index for Joseph Ward June quarter of 1844 Dewsbury age 1.
So seems the Joseph Hartley one is looking most likely at the moment. Still the interesting anomaly that Hartley is listed as the surname and not Ward.
Could it be that his birth wasn't registered at all?
Cheers.
It is always possible the birth was not registered.
+6 votes

I am wondering why his last name at birth would be listed on the profile as Ward and not Hartley.

FamilySearch lists both names of Ward and Hartley.

Joseph Ward, England Births and Christening

Joseph Hartley Christening16 January 1842

Knottingley, Yorkshire, England, United Kingdom

by David Selman G2G Astronaut (1.3m points)
If he was born to an unwed mother, his LNAB would be hers, not that of the father.
Hi David,

The Joseph Hartley baptised in Knottingley is a different person (different date, location, and father).

Thanks for finding the Joseph Ward entry though, couldn't find that myself on FS for some reason.

Cheers.
+8 votes

I've had only a quick look, but I think you've got it right. It seems likely that Joseph was born to Hannah Ward before she married William Hartley. 

If you look at the GRO birth index for Joseph's [half?] brother, Hanson Hartley (what a helpfully distinctive name!), his mother's maiden name was given as Ward. 

If Joseph was illegitimate, normally you would expect to see a blank space on the GRO index where the mother's maiden name should be. There was a registration for a Joseph Hartley in the Halifax district (would be correct for a birth in Brighouse) in 1843 (no mother's maiden name). This could be a red herring though. Or perhaps William Hartley was his father and the couple already had plans to marry?

You've got Joseph's date of birth from his baptism so there ought to have been a birth registration in the September quarter of 1842, but sometimes people didn't do it, for whatever reason.

As for people lying and getting things muddled on the census and other sources, in my experience it's very common so unless there's something that's a real red flag, it might not be anything to worry about. Some of my ancestors claimed to be widows on the census but actually they were just estranged from their husbands... Others didn't know where they were born and gave different birthplaces on different censuses.

by Katie Fuller G2G6 Mach 4 (42.5k points)
Hi Katie,

Very helpful. It seems the 1842 birthdate is actually 1843, so your registration may well be the one. Maybe that's another certificate I should look at getting.

Interestingly enough I think that birth registration is the source I originally used until I found all these anomalies.

Just thought, another (half) brother could perhaps be a clue: Abel. On William Hartley and Hannah Ward's marriage, Hannah's father is listed as Abel Ward.

Thanks so much. You guys are amazing.
No problem, you’re welcome. Glad to have helped a little bit!

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