Adeline "Adeliza" Abitot formerly Lancaster and then Perverel? Did she exist?

Question

Adeline "Adeliza" (Lancaster) (Abitot) Perverel (abt. 1045 - 1120)

Back in 2015, questions about the Abitot name and a note that both parents are shown born after her, have been ignored ... She popped up again for me recently, and I was hoping to get some help with figuring out if she even existed?

Somebody surely knows something about this line? 

Thank you.

 

Comments

You may need to contact someone at WikiTree who is certified to research people prior to 1500.

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Thanks Frank, I've added the Pre-1500 category.

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Some more info of possible interest - http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/gen-medieval/2007-04/1175637073

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/gen-medieval/2005-12/1134418550

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/gen-medieval/2000-12/0977859838

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/gen-medieval/2002-03/1016424258

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Thank you James ... a lot to read through.

Answer 1

Name:	Adelina de Lancaster
Gender:	Female
Birth Date:	1045
Birth Place:	Lancaster, England
Death Date:	1119
Death Place:	Nottingham, England
Death Age:	74
Father:	Roger van Montgomery
Mother:	Mabilia van Alençon
Spouse:	William Peveral
Children:	Adelise Peveral

 Netherlands, GenealogieOnline Trees Index, 1000-2015 

Answer 2

Father - Roger

Name:	Roger van Montgomery
Gender:	Male
Birth Date:	1005
Birth Place:	Normandië (Frankrijk)
Death Date:	27 jul 1094
Death Place:	Shrewsbury, England
Death Age:	89
Father:	Roger de Montgomery
Mother:	Joceline de Ponteaudemer
Spouse:	Mabilia van Alençon
Children:	Arnulf van Montgomery  Robert van Montgomery  Adelina de Lancaster  Roger van Montgomery  Mathilde van Montgomery

Answer 3

Mother

Name:	Mabilia van Alençon
Gender:	Female
Birth Date:	Abt 1010
Birth Place:	Beksme, Alençon, Frankrijk
Death Date:	5 dec 1082
Death Place:	Bures, Suffolk, England
Death Age:	72
Father:	Willem van Alençon
Mother:	Hildeburg van Beaumont
Spouse:	Roger van Montgomery
Children:	Arnulf van Montgomery  Robert van Montgomery  Adelina de Lancaster  Roger van Montgomery  Mathilde van Montgomery

The dates on the parents shown here are different to those on the profiles, and would therefore need to be researched more by someone qualified.

These are purely records found on another site.

 

 

Comments

Thank you Wendy, but this info is from an Ancestry.com Tree that has no sources... The little I looked (dau. Adelise Perveral), doesn't jive with what we do have on WikiTree that is sourced

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It's interesting to go back in the 500-1000 years ago because the world was so different back then. I don't know that human nature was different in those earlier days.

My Washburn line coincides with yours during the 1600's although I am uncertain of my accuracy on the way back to the 1200's.

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My Washburn line coincides with yours during the 1600's

where does the line tie in ... what family?

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It connects at Elizabeth Mitchell's husband who you have as John Washburn, Jr. born Nov 26, 1620. My line descends through their son, Jonathan Washburn b about 1658 who married Mary Vaughan. .

Answer 4

I think she's a conflation of the wives of William Peverels sr and jr.

But her sister is also Will jr's wife, so I suppose Will sr could have her all to himself.

Comments

the only one I'm somewhat certain of is the dau. Adelise m. Vernon de Reviers ... b. c. 1069, (hubby c. 1070), which fits for Adeline supposedly b. c. 1045. siblings shown all start 4 centuries later.

Her father is more likely Roger de [[Montgomery-133]], b. 1022, there's a spot open in the lineup bet. 1044-1048

I think the Abitot name came in a confusion with Adelisa d'Abitot, wife of Urse ... she lived in the same period.

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I think Peverel sr's wife is just Adeline Unknown, no dates, no parents.

CP says her daughter Adelise was living 1156 although her husband Richard de Redvers died 1107, which helps to guess dates.

MedLands has the wrong CP ref for Peverels, it's Volume 4, appx I, p.761ff.

Everything else about Adeline comes from confusion with Peverel jr's obscure 2nd wife, who called herself Avicia de Lancastria in one undated charter concerning the church of Bolsover.  Nothing is known about her either.

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Adeline the wife of William Peverel I or Snr, is mentioned a couple of times in Keats-Rohan, 2 volume Domesday People/Descendants, but no parents or 'surname' are ever given.

She calls Avicia or Avice, the second wife of William Peverel II, and then of Richard de Morville, the daughter of Willelm de Lancastria filius Gilberti also called William Taillebois.  The source for this seems to be J.Green 'Ranulf II and Lancashire' in Earldom of Chester and its charters, ed. Thackeray, but this is fairly recent and may not be easily accessible.

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MedLands has William de Morville calling his mother Avice of Lancaster, and a Pipe Roll entry 1169/70 calling her William's daughter.  She's this one

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Lancaster-265

Cawley figures she can't be Gundred's daughter and has to resort to the unknown previous wife.

Question is, whether Peverel jr's 2nd wife, calling herself Avice of Lancaster, is the same Avice of Lancaster.  WikiTree has them 67 years apart.  If she is the same, we know who her father is, but if not, she could be anybody.  CP says presumably a daughter of Roger the Poitevin, but Cawley calls that speculation.

 

 

 

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Footnote 1 here (or Planche's book) looks like a source of confusion

https://archive.org/stream/victoriahistoryo01farruoft#page/n390/

There wasn't any "Adeline of Lancaster".

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Planche doesn't have any information

https://archive.org/stream/conquerorhiscomp02planuoft#page/269/

His "Adeline de Lancaster" is the wife of Peverel senior, and from the name he's given her, by confusion with Avice, he guesses that she could be a daughter of Roger of Poitou or a baron of Kendal.

(But if Roger's daughter were the wife of Peverel senior - as she is on WikiTree - it would mean that when Roger was supporting Curthose against Henry in 1101-2, he was already a great-grandfather on the Redvers front.)  

 

 

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I think Peverel sr's wife is just Adeline Unknown, no dates, no parents.

Since we all agree on this, I created Adeline Unknown, here: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Unknown-396163

We do have charter from the priory of St James, showing her death date: Adelyne uxis ei” (immediately after that of “Willi Peverell fundatoris”, he died 28 Jan 1114.

The guess by Cawley of 1075/80, for the birth of the dau. Adelise is likely more correct than the current 1069.