Macbeatha McFinley (1048 - abt. 1093)

I have mcbetha mcfinley b 1048-1093 as my 26th great grandfather straight lineage through my father's paternal line kevin collins born 1960-David Collins circa. 1362, who married my 18th great grandmother Sara Finley, from her father's paternal line I end with Macbetha. It is very interesting all the history. Could someone help me link him in my tree.

All this of course refers to events 1000 years, a millennium, ago. In addition, if the claims in the reference of Admiral Herald Stout are accurate, it appears that Finley descendants may have eventually married into what were or became royal families in London, meaning the competition for related thrones in Scotland functionally ended, and official vilification ended. The issue is still of interest to Finley descendants, aside from any royalist claims -- rather what are the facts of the family history in an era of democracy. It is logical that evidence justifying historic claims to thrones were destroyed by those who felt their interests challenged by the claims; there is a difference between civil crimes and politically-driven criminalization/vilification, and critics of the Shakespearean descriptions of the MacBeth legacy have been widely and often discredited as largely fictional. Yet some persist, erroneously, in treating Shakespeare's writings as fact. Even current British royal family internet statements have indicated that Shakespeare's account of MacBeth and his legacy are not accurate. Lastly, it is equally necessary to disprove as to prove published claims of historical significance by people holding official titles.

Regarding the traditional descent of Clan Finlay from Macbeth, King of Scotland: That Lulach was King Macbeth's heir makes it reasonable to suppose that Macbeth had no sons to represent his line after Macbeth was defeated and slain in battle. On the other hand, there could have been sons of Macbeth who were simply too young to assert their claim to the throne of Albann. Lulach, of course, did not simply represent Macbeth's line's claim, but also, through Lulach's mother Gruoch, he represented the old line of King Dubh. Assuming that Macbeth had sons who were unable to press a claim to the throne, those sons in turn could have had sons who were unable or unwilling to challenge the reigning monarch, and so on. Under the Gaelic derbhfine system (often known less accurately as "tanistry"), the longer a dynastic branch was unable to make good its claim to rule, the more likely it was to fade into oblivion (assuming that the ascendant branch didn't simply massacre potential challengers and completely eliminate that rival dynastic branch).

That said, as others have noted, there is no contemporary or near contemporary records that Macbeth ever had any sons or descendants. Much later, the traditional clan genealogies of Gaelic MS 1467 traced the chiefs of Clan MacQuarrie and Clan MacKinnon back to a certain Fearchar Og, said to be a son of King Macbeth --

"Do Genealach Clann Guaire . . . Guaire mic Cormaic mic Arbertaig mic Murechach mic Fearchair oig mic Mic Beathaidh mic Finlaeic mic Fearchar fada mic Fearadaig mic Fergusa" (MS 1467)

"Do Genealach Mhic Fingaine . . . Fingainne o fuiled Clann Fingaine mic Cormac mic Airbeartaigh mic Murchertaigh mic Fearchair oig etc." (MS 1467)

Besides Fearchar Og (Farquar the Young/Little), I'm not aware of any other claimed son of Macbeth in pre-1500 Gaelic genealogies.

Now, it is clear that these fragments of traditional pedigrees were not meant to be taken as precise and complete genealogies, but rather they summarised traditional descents by making a descendant the "son" of his real or purported ancestor. We can tell that by the fact that the various clan pedigrees do not agree on the number of generations back to "Cormac mic Airbeartaigh" (traditional ancestor of several Highland clans). The Clan Quarrie pedigree in particular is seen to be a summary pedigree, for it shows Fearchar Og's supposed father Macbeth as a grandson of Fearchar II Fata, King of Dalriada of the Cinel Loairn during the 600s A.D. Macbeth was, or claimed to be, a descendant of Fearchar Fata, but the exact lineage between Macbeth's father Finlaech and Fearchar Fata was either forgotten or was fictitious. Well then, if Finlaech was not literally Fearchar Fata's son, but perhaps his descendants, then Fearchar Og himself may not have been Macbeth's literal son, but could have been a descendant -- IF Macbeth had any descendants at all.

Did Macbeth have sons named Macbeth or Finlay/Finlaech? Could be. Unfortunately we have no records that could help us determine whether or not Clan Finlay's tradition of descent from King Macbeth is authentic.

US Navy Admiral and Navy Cross recipient Herald Stout's 'Clan Finley' lists a bibliography for his claims, including the following; and I have a typewritten document written by an ancestor (of my Finley family), Albert Finley France, that may possibly have quoted the first of the following (i.e. House of Finlay), which I have not yet located. I cannot prove that the Finley family genealogies I have seen have proven historical documentation, but the 2 sources I have were written by US Naval Officers who were not likely to have risked their reputations on unsubstantiated claims. That said, Stout's genealogy is quite extensive, and did have some errors later corrected by other Finley genealogists. None of us would want to perpetuate inaccurate claims.

Sources <references /> Finlay of Castle Toward, George: " House of Finlay. Adams, Frank: "Clans, Septs and Regiments of the Scottish Highlands". Cook, E Thornton: "Their Majesties of Scotland". Pinkerton's History of Scotland, v2, p197.

"Macbeatha McFinley, a younger son of Macbeth, was 1060-1093 Thane of Cromary; married Bethoca, daughter of Andrew McBrad (McBride)."

Sources <references />

• Stout, US Navy Admiral and Navy Cross recipient Herald F.: " The Clan Finley", 2nd edition, revised and corrected, v1 (1956) and v2 (1957-61)

MacBeatha was shown as the husband of Gruoch, who, if he is the son of MacBeth, would have been his mother. Gruoch had only one known son, Lulach. So I have disconnected her.

McFinlay-6 and McFinley-5 appear to represent the same person because: Same DOD and child.