Rose
Freville
formerly [surname unknown] aka Frevile
Born about in Isleham, Cambridgeshire, England
Daughter of [father unknown] and [mother unknown]
[sibling(s) unknown]
Wife of
Robert Freville
— married
1501 [location unknown]
Descendants 
Mother of
Thomasine (Freville) Burgoyne and George Freville MP
Died
at about age 49
in Little Shelford, Cambridgeshire, England
Profile last modified
| Created 31 Jan 2011
This page has been accessed 279 times.
The Birth Date is a rough estimate. See the text for details.
Contents |
Biography
Rose's last name at birth is uncertain.[1] See Research Notes (below).
Rose Freville of Shelford, Cambs. (b. est. 1480 - d. aft. 20 Apr 1529)
Marriage
Rose married Robert Freville (Frevile) of Shelford, Camb. (b. c. 1479; will 07 Apr 1521).[1] They are the parents of the following children, all named in their father's Will:[2]
- John (d. 1552)[3]
- George of Isleham and Little Shelford, Cambs. (b. c. 1502 - d. 1579)[3][4][5][6]
- Nicholas, named in Rose's Will[1]
- Thomazin[7]
- m. Christopher Burgoyne (d. c. 1561)[7]
- 4 more daughters,[8] named in Rose's Will as
Will
Rose's Will was dated 20 Apr 1529. Besides her children, it names:[1]
- Thomas Hutton, who was husband of Rose's daughter Anne
- John and Rose Hutton, probably children of Thomas and Anne
- her son[-in-law] William Walpole
- Rose Walpole, probably William's daughter
- Robert Freville, probably a grandson, son of her son John
- Rose and George Burgoyn, probably grandchildren, children of Thomazin and her husband Christopher Burgoyne
- her sister Swette and John Swette
- her sister Thirlowe
- John Ewell
- Rose Flaxman
- Rose Orgar
Her executors were Thomas Hutton, Christopher Burgoyne, George Freville, John Freville and William Walpole. The overseer of the Will was Philip Paris.
Research Notes
Family Origins
Summary
In the past two hypotheses, both dating from at least the 19th century, possibly earlier, have been put forward: a Hasleden origin, and a Peyton origin. The Hasleden supposition appears to be based on a misidentification of a Robert Frreville who married a Hasleden. No reliable source has been found for a Peyton origin.
Rose has previously been shown on WikiTree as daughter of Thomas Peyton and Margaret Francis, with the relationship marked uncertain. There was a warning in the main biography that the relationship was speculative. She has been detached.
Hasleden
An 1848 work on the Freville Family cites John Layer's 1632 Cambridge Monumental Inscriptions as recording a Robert Freville's marriage to Beatrice, daughter Anthony Hasleden:[9][10] we know, though, from his Will, that the wife of Robert Freville, husband of the Rose of this profile, was called Rose, not Beatrice.[2]
Bindoff, the author of the History of Parliament entry for Rose's son George Freville, tentatively suggested as a possibility that her father was Anthony Holden.[4] This may have been based on surmise that the Beatrice who married Robert Freville was really called Rose.
The Will of Anthony Hasleden (proved in 1527) makes no mention of Rose or her husband or their children.[1]
Gary Boyd Roberts' Royal Descents of 600 Immigrants to the American Colonies or the United States states that a 1996 article in NEXUS has disproved a Hasleden origin for Rose.[11]
A 2005 discussion in soc.genealogy.medieval gives strong evidence that, while there is some good documentary evidence (set out in the discussion) that Anthony Hasleden had a daughter called Beatrice, it was a different Robert Freville who married Beatrice - a grandson of Rose. A 1547 entry in the Patent Rolls (well after the death of Rose's husband) refers to this Robert and Beatrice in terms which show they were both alive then. Beatrice was likely to be a child born after Anthony's death (a codicil to his will refers to his wife being pregnant).[9]
Peyton
Thomas Peyton-947 and Margaret Francis were named, with no sourcing, as parents in Robert Edmond Chester Waters' 1878 Genealogical Memoirs of the Extinct Family of Chester of Chicheley.[8] (There was a succession of Thomas Peytons, father and son, across several generations.)
There is a Peyton pedigree in Joseph Jackson Howard’s 1868 edition of the 1561 Visitation of Suffolk, with additions of his own. This does not name Rose as a child of Thomas Peyton-947 and Margaret Francis, or of any other of the Thomas Peytons. (Like many 19th century editions of Visitations, it is not possible to tell what was in the original Visitation and what has been added or changed, without clear sourcing, by the editor.)[12] Nor is Rose named as a daughter of theirs in the Peyton pedigree in the Harleian Society edition of the 1575 and 1619 Visitations of Cambridge. (Again this contains information added by the editor.)[13]
The 2005 discussion in soc.genealogy.medieval about Rose Freville includes some other relevant documentation. The issues have also been explored in Eugene A Stratton's 1988 Applied Genealogy, with Stratton concluding that the evidence pointed against Rose being a daughter of Thomas Peyton-947.[14] To sum up what these show:
- Rose's Will gives no information to cast light on her family origins.
- A Robert Peyton, probably Robert Peyton-507 (though there was more than one Robert Peyton), brother of one of the Thomas Peytons, is named in the Will of Rose's husband as one of Rose's "friends and kinsmen" who put their names to a 1513 agreement with him which concerned, or included, arrangements associated with Rose's jointure: this may imply that Robert Peyton was a relative, but it is equally possible that he was just a "friend".[2] Robert Peyton appears to have had a general involvement in Robert Freville's landholdings, so this alone could make it natural for Robert Peyton to be party to the 1513 agreement:
- Robert Freville's 1521 Will mentions Sir Gyles Alyngton, Sir Robert Payton (Paynton in the transcript in Testamenta Vetusta) and Francis Hasilden as having "recovered" lands of his father (who died in 1505) for the use of Robert Freville and his heirs.
- The Will (proved in 1518) of Robert Peyton-507 names Rose's husband Robert Freville as a feoffee (with no indication of family relationship).
- Conceivably the 1513 agreement may be associated with land in relation to which Robert Freville was a feoffee of Robert Peyton (without sight of the agreement, it is hard to be sure exactly what it dealt with). If it is, that could help to explain why Robert Peyton was one of those who was party to the agreement, as this would help to safeguard Rose's interests. - Cayley-55 15:18, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
- Thomas Peyton-947 and Margaret Francis had a son Christopher who died childless and whose Will (proved in 1507) names quite a number of relatives, including his brother Francis. There is no mention of a Rose.
Rose's son George Freville has entries in both the original Dictionary of National Biography (DNB)[5] and the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (ODNB).[15] The original DNB named Rose as Rose Peyton. This was repeated in the first (2004) version of George Freville's entry in the ODNB: but the ODNB entry was revised online in 2008 to remove Peyton as Rose's birth surname: instead it just calls her Rose with no last name, self-evidently in recognition of the uncertainty about her family origin.
Sources
- ↑ 1.0 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4 1.5 1.6 1.7 1.8 "Rose Freville of Little Shelford," 2005 thread in soc.genealogy.medieval Google Group
- ↑ 2.0 2.1 2.2 2.3 Nicholas Harris Nicolas. Testamenta Vetusta, Vol. II, Nichols and Son, 1826, pp. 574-577, Internet Archive (Will of Robert Freville)
- ↑ 3.0 3.1 Pink, W.D. & Beavan, A.B. (1889). The Parliamentary Representation of Lancashire, (county and Borough), 1258-1885, pp. 141. London: Henry Gray. Google Books.
- ↑ 4.0 4.1 Bindoff, S.T. (1982). "Freville, George," in The House of Commons, 1509-1558, 1, pp. 173. Google Books, HOP.
- ↑ 5.0 5.1 Freville, George (DNB00). WikiSource.org. Web.[1]
- ↑ Wikipedia: George Freville
- ↑ 7.0 7.1 Clay, J.W. (1897). "Burgoyne," in Visitations of Cambridgshire 1575 and 1619... with many other descents added thereto, Publications of the Harleian Society, XLI, pp. 25. London. Internet Archive
- ↑ 8.0 8.1 Waters, R.E.C. (1878). "Rose Peyton," in Genealogical Memoirs of the Extinct Family of Chester of Chicheley, 1, p. 203. London: Robson & Sons. Google Books.
- ↑ 9.0 9.1 "Beatrix: daughter of Anthony Hasilden & wife of Robert Freville", 2005 thread in soc.genealogy.medieval
- ↑ A W Franks. The Genealogical History of the Freville Family, Cambridge Antiquarian Society Quarto Series, Vol. XIV, 1848, cited in the 2005 discussion
- ↑ Gary Boyd Roberts. '’Royal Descents of 600 Immigrants to the American Colonies or the United States'’, Genealogical Publishing Company, 2004, p. 539, Ancestry.co.uk
- ↑ Joseph Jackson Howard (ed.). The Visitation of Suffolk made by William Hervey… 1561 with additions…, Vol. II, 1868, pp. 118-120, Google Books
- ↑ John W Clay (ed.). The Visitation of Cambridge made in the year Ao. 1579 continued and enlarged with the Visitation of the same County made by Henry St George in Ao. 1619, with many other descents added thereto, Harleian Society, 1897, p. 4, Internet Archive
- ↑ Eugene Aubrey Stratton. Applied Genealogy, Ancestry Incorporated, 1988, pp. 70-72
- ↑ Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, entry by J H Baker for 'Freville, George (d. 1579)', print and online 2004, revised online 2008, subscription, or access via a library, required
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[Do you know Rose's family name?] | F > Freville > Rose (Unknown) Freville
Categories: Estimated Birth Date
I have removed the suggestion that Clay's 1897 edition of the Cambridge Visitations (with additions of his own) suggests that Rose was daughter of Thomas Peyton. This seems to be a misreading of the Burgoyne pedigree on page 25. The relevant part of it is the mention of Rose's daughter Thomasine who married Christopher Burgoyne: her father is named as "Rob. Frevile of Shelford"; unless my ageing eyes have missed something, there appears no mention of who Thomasine's mother was. An earlier Burgoyne is shown as marrying a daughter of a Thomas Payton, with no first name given for her.
edited by Michael Cayley
So my reply as follows: Nicholas Harris Nicolas. Testamenta Vetusta, Vol. II, Nichols and Son, 1826, pp. 574-577, Internet Archive (Will of Robert Freville)
Commentary
According to what is said in Robert Freville’s will Sir Robert Peyton is either a friend or a kinsman or both to Rose Freville. This being the will of Robert Freville husband of Rose Freville proved and dated 2 May 1521. Hence a more authentic document. A kinsman could be someone related to someone else via marriage. Hence no blood line connection per say. Or could be a blood cousin of Sir Robert Payton. This leaves only the possibility that Rose is Thomas Peyton’s daughter.
Circumstantial observation here. There is evidence in my own family line of first cousins and second cousins bloodline related meaning very similar DNA. It has been known as inbred. Christopher Burgoyne’s great grandmother was Joan de Peyton. In the visitations of Cambridgeshire 1575 and 1619 John Burgoyne b. 1392 of Dry Drayton with 4 sons married a daughter of Thomas Peyton of Cambridgeshire. Rose Freville’s daughter Thomasine Freville marries Christopher Burgoyne a close descendant of a Peyton. Another circumstantial evidence is Rose Freville’s daughter Thomasine’s first name. The female form of the name Thomas as in Thomasine’s maternal grandfather’s name Thomas Peyton. Other circumstantial evidence is that the Freville’s , the Burgoyne’s and the Peyton’s are all from Cambridgeshire, England. In fact these families live no more than 25 miles at most from each other important fact in 1500.
William Haselden (d. 1480) was succeeded by his son John (fn. 88) (d. 1504), whose son and heir Francis (fn. 89) died in 1522. The succession of Francis's daughter Frances and her husband Sir Robert Peyton (fn. 90) was challenged by Francis's brother Anthony Haselden (d. 1527), and, after Anthony's minor son William (fn. 91) died without issue in 1537, by the heirs male, William and Richard Haselden, London tradesmen and sons of John Haselden's brother Richard. Sir Robert Peyton won the ensuing lawsuits in the 1540s (fn. 92) and died in 1550. (fn. 93) When Frances, who had held the Morden manors in survivorship, died in 1582, (fn. 94) her son and heir Robert Peyton at once sold them to Thomas Mead, justice of the common pleas. Mead died in 1585, leaving them for life to his widow Joan. (fn. 95) Taken from Pages 97-110 A History of the County of Cambridge and the Isle of Ely: Volume 8. Originally published by Victoria County History, London, 1982.
Long story short two Haseldens fought in court over an estate. Sir Robert Peyton happens to be married to one of the person’s fighting it out in court. So Anthony Haselden did not have that property coming to him via Rose Peyton Freville because if she was Anthony’s daughter the fight was not between Rose supposedly Haselden but between Elizabeth Haselden Anthony’s heir and Francis his niece. One of the few things I could find on Anthony Haselden. But none of it indicates his connection to Rose.
Anthony Haselden is also mentioned in the Visitations of Cambridgeshire, 1575 and 1619. No wife is mentioned but an only daughter Elizabeth as his heir is mentioned with no mention of Rose. He is also from the Cambridgeshire in that same time period. The only circumstantial evidence.
So where did English historian PhD level expert Dr. Bindoff in his reference that Rose could be the daughter of Anthony Haselden get his notion. Because it would seem history has left very little information about this person Anthony Haselden. Yes, the fact that Anthony Haselden is from the Cambridgeshire area would make it a possibility. The fact is that Rose is also from the area. But the fact that her daughter has a name of Thomasine female form of her grandfather’s name Thomas Peyton and the fact her daughter Thomasine marries Christopher Burgoyne whose great grandmother was a Peyton is a greater weight of circumstantial evidence. The fact another historical document Robert Freville’s will implies a blood line connection to Sir Robert Peyton gives Rose Freville a greater possibility of being Thomas Peyton’s daughter.
So we go up to 1982 stating that Rose Freville is Thomas Peyton’s daughter. A single expert implies some doubt without documentary support. So all the people that came before and who in say 1550 or 1620 were misled or wrong. The people who lived in those times and passed on this history of Roses connection as daughter of Thomas Peyton were what I call the scientists the Johnny’s on the spot. A person who is witness to an event or whose knows persons personally for long periods of time who were witnesses to an event have a greater advantage in that specific circumstance in comparison to the expert PhD who was not witness to the event. And that is goes double for historical events. I have shot down and received confirmation from multiple experts in the field with PhD’s that the highly honored PhD that I shot down was absolutely and totally wrong and I little me Johnny on the spot was correct. I shot him down in his area of expertise with confirmation from other PhD experts in the field. Former Joint Chief of Staff highest ranking officer in the United States military and Secretary of State for the United States of America Collin Powell taught me that one should never trust a single expert especially when doubt about his or her PhD expertise in the field opinion might be possibly wrong. So unless better evidence can be given to us that Rose is not a daughter of Thomas Peyton or is a daughter for sure of Anthony Haselden then Rose should be considered to be the daughter of Thomas Peyton. If the authorities and families involved would allow. Bone samples taken from the graves of Thomas Peyton or his known for sure wife and from the grave of Rose Freville could be taken for DNA analysis. These samples of bone are very tiny samples. The definitive answer then would be given. Provided the science would indicated the samples are of good enough quality we would know for sure if Rose was Thomas Peyton’s daughter.
Source Citation London, England: Oxford University Press; Volume: Vol 07; Page: 711
Source Information Ancestry.com. Dictionary of National Biography, Volumes 1-22 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2010. This collection was indexed by Ancestry World Archives Project contributors.
Original data: Stephen, Sir Leslie, ed. Dictionary of National Biography, 1921–1922. Volumes 1–22. London, England: Oxford University Press, 1921–1922. Dictionary of National Biography, 1921–1922, Oxford University Press, London, England.
This source quotes Rose, wife of Robert Freville, is Rose Peyton.
edited by [Living McKinney]
Pedigrees of some of the Emperor Charlemagne's descendants (Vol. II) Statement of Responsibility: Marcellus Donald R. von Redlich and Aileen Lewers Langston Authors: Redlich, Marcellus Donald Alexander von, 1893-1946 (Main Author) Langston, Aileen Lewers, 1898-1971 (Added Author) Buck, J. Orton (James Orton), 1913- (Added Author) Order of the Crown of Charlemagne in the United States of America (Added Author) Charlemagne, Emperor, 742-814 (Subject) Format: Books/Monographs Language: English Publication: Baltimore, Maryland : Genealogical Publishing Co. Inc., 1972
In this published book Rose Peyton is shown to be the daughter of Thomas de Peyton born 17 February 1417 in Peyton Hall, Dry Drayton, Chambridgeshire, England. At the same time she is also shown to be a descendant of Charlemagne, Holy Roman Emperor. In a quote from conversation on the British Internet taken from a comment on btinternet: quote "be paid to the use of the said Rose my wife for term of her life natural, without impeachment of waste in that jointure of the said Rose according to an Indenture between me the said Robert [Freville] on that one part and the Sir Robert Payton, knight, and other friends, and kinsmen of the said Rose my said wife on the that other part, the date whereof be the XXVII day of April the Vth year of the reign of King Henry the VIIIth" [1513] Sir Robert Peyton was Rose's grand uncle the uncle of Thomas de Peyton. This is a quote from possibly a will of Robert Freville.
In another published source:
Genealogical memoirs of the extinct family of Chester of Chicheley their ancestors and descendants. Volume 1 page 203 writen by Waters, R.E.C., Robert Edmond Chester in (1878) and published in London by Robson & Sons.
One reads at top of page that Rose Peyton is the daughter of Thomas Peyton.
So Rose Peyton is the daughter of Thomas Peyton born 14 February 1417 and died 30 July 1484.
- The sender, Owen McKinney
As Bree Ogle said in her 2018 comment below, the last name at birth ought to be changed to Unknown.
edited by Michael Cayley