Charles Francis Webb (1827 - 1910)

Born 3 Apr 1827 in Charing Cross, London, Middlesex, England, United Kingdom

Husband of Eliza (Phillips) Webb — married 28 Apr 1856 in St Mary's Church, Kooringa, South Australia, Australia

Husband of Elizabeth (Warne) Webb — married 11 Apr 1904 in Res of the bride, Kadina, South Australia, Australia

Descendants

Died 23 Oct 1910 at age 83 in Caroline Street, Moonta, South Australia, Australia

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Biography

Charles Francis "Tommy" Webb was born on April 3, 1827 in Charing Cross, London, Middlesex, England, United Kingdom, son of William Webb and Sarah Hayes.

By all accounts, Charles arrived in South Australia on 18/3/1845 on the Whaler John Pirie which had sailed from Trial Bay. On board were 4 crew members of the Elizabeth Rebecca which had sunk at Trial bay, near Sceales Bay on Eyre Peninsula.^[1] Whether he was one of those 4 or else a member of the John Pirie crew, the author of the article below cannot be certain. Trial Bay was one of the main locations for prisoners arriving from England.^[2]

Charles married Eliza Phillips (born about 1834 in Forfarshire, Scotland) on April 28, 1856 in St Mary's Church, Kooringa, South Australia.^[3] Their known children were:

1. Sarah Webb (1857–1937)
2. Eliza Webb (1857–<1910)
3. Harriett Teresa Webb (1859–1897)
4. Charles William Webb (1860–1938)
5. Ellen Frances Webb (1862–1896)
6. John Webb (1868–1895)

For some time he lived at Kooringa, Black Rock, Parnaroo and possibly Adelaide, and in 1871 he moved to Moonta. ^{[citation needed]}

Following Eliza's death in 1902 Charles married Elizabeth Harris (nee Warne) (born about 1830) on April 11, 1904 at the residence of the bride in Kadina, South Australia. Elizabeth was the recent widow of James Harris, also of Moonta.^[4]

Charles died on October 23, 1910 in Caroline Street, Moonta, South Australia, Australia and he was buried at Moonta Cemetery on October 25th.^[5] Charles's estate passed probate on 9 November 1910 in South Australia, Australia.^[6]

A similar version of the below story can be found at the Yorke's Peninsula Advertiser (SA : 1878 - 1922), Friday 28 October 1910, page 2 ^[7]

Charles arrived in SA on 18/3/1845 on the Whaler John Pirie which had sailed from Trial Bay. On board were 4 crew members of the Elizabeth Rebecca which had sunk at Trial bay, near Sceales Bay on Eyre Peninsula. Whether he was one of those 4 or else a member of the John Pirie crew, I cannot be certain.

For some time he lived at Kooringa, Black Rock, Parnaroo and possibly Adelaide, and in 1871 he moved to Moonta.

He was always known to the people of Moonta as 'Tommy' or 'Thomas', Charles being considered a bit toffy. He died at home in Caroline Street at Moonta of Heart Failure. His funeral service was conducted by the Revd. Father Hourigan. His obituary notice in the People's Weekly on Saturday October 24th, 1910 gives a great insight into his life and reads as follows.

WEBB - On 23rd October at Caroline Street Moonta, Charles Francis Webb in his 84th year.

We have this week to chronicle the somewhat unexpected death of a very old and highly respected townsman, Mr Thomas Francis Webb who passed away at his residence, Caroline Street on Sunday evening in the 84th year of his age. Bronchitis which laid him aside for a brief period was the immediate cause of his demise. Mr Webb was a man of great experience, and a chat with him was interesting at any time.

He was born at Charing Cross, London, England on April 3rd 1827 and came to SA on the 18th March 1845. He lived under the reign of 5 different sovereigns being 3 years of age when George the IV died and 10 years old at the death of William the IV. He had the pleasure of seeing Queen Victoria before she was crowned and was in the park when Wm Oxford fired at Her Majesty and the bullet went through her carriage; while he also saw King Edward VII when he was about a week old. He also claimed to have ridden in the first train in London.

Mr Webb was twice married, the first ceremony taking place on April 28, 1856 at Kooringa to Miss Eliza Phillips who was then 21 yrs of age. She died in February 1902. On the 11th of April 1904, he married the widow of the late Mr James Harris who predeceased him only 9 weeks.

He leaves one son (Mr Charles Webb of Moonta) and one daughter (Mrs Samuel Bawden of Glanville). The funeral on Tuesday afternoon was attended by many who knew and respected the old gentleman in this neighbourhood. The service was conducted by the Rev. Father Hourigan while the funeral arrangements were in the hands of Mr E Major Jun.

Sources

1. ↑ “TO SOUTH AUSTRALIAN WE ARE BOUND-PASSENGERS 1841-1845 by Diane Cummings,” 2023. (https://bound-for-south-australia.collections.slsa.sa.gov.au/SAShips1844-1845.htm), Direct link to image (https://bound-for-south-australia.collections.slsa.sa.gov.au/1845JohnPirie.gif).
2. ↑ Wikipedia. 2023. "Trial Bay Gaol." Wikimedia Foundation. Last modified July 20, 2023. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_Bay_Gaol.
3. ↑ Marriage: "Australia, Marriage Index, 1788-1950"
   South Australia-Marriages 1842-1916; Page number: 111; Volume Number: 26
   Ancestry Record 1780 #5457194 (accessed 20 October 2023)
   Charles Webb marriage to Eliza Phillips on 28 Apr 1856 in Kooringa, South Australia.
4. ↑ Marriage: "Australia, Marriage Index, 1788-1950"
   South Australia-Marriages 1842-1916; Page number: 261; Volume Number: 219
   Ancestry Record 1780 #5457207 (accessed 20 October 2023)
   Charles Francis Webb marriage to Elizabeth Harris on 11 Apr 1904 in Res of Mrs E Harris Moonta, South Australia.
5. ↑ Memorial: Find a Grave (has image)
   Find A Grave: Memorial #148429177 (accessed 20 October 2023)
   Memorial page for Charles Francis “Tommy” Webb (3 Apr 1827-23 Oct 1910), citing Moonta Cemetery, Moonta, District Council of Copper Coast, South Australia, Australia (plot: West 16 Plot 760e); Maintained by Doug Hooper (contributor 47401292).
6. ↑ Probate: "Australia, South Australia, Will and Probate Records"
   citing Will, South Australia, Australia, Probate and Administration Books, Supreme Court of South Australia, Adelaide; FHL microfilm 104180352
   FamilySearch Record: QR9G-68T2 (accessed 20 October 2023)
   FamilySearch Image: 3Q9M-CSGR-8S1S-Q Image number 00157
   Charles Francis Webb probate on 9 Nov 1910 in South Australia, Australia.
7. ↑ "Local and General" Yorke's Peninsula Advertiser (SA : 1878 - 1922) 28 October 1910: 2. Web. 21 Oct 2023 bottom right (http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article216742581).

Research Notes

The presumed christening record of 19 Apr 1833 in London belonged to a child born on 3 Mar 1830, not 3 Apr 1827. The image with the DOB can be found here at no charge. Ancestry Sharing Link Unless he recounted his birthdate incorrectly (the right day, but wrong month & year), so it hasn't been included in this profile.

• Baptism: "England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975", Original data: England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975. Salt Lake City, Utah: FamilySearch, 2013; FHL Film Number: 481065, Ancestry Record 9841 #67448410 (accessed 20 October 2023), Charles Webb baptism on 19 Apr 1833 (born 30 Mar 1830), son of William Webb & Sarah, in Saint Benet Pauls Wharf, London, London, England.

The story about his arrival is missing a bit of information, as the ship was merely travelling from Trial Bay (the home of Trial Bay Gaol) and not from England. It was reported that the "John Pirie" rescued the crew of the "Elizabeth Rebecca", not passengers. So, he must have been working on the ship. It's unclear when he left England. It may be beneficial to search convict lists.

There's no evidence his parents were really named William & Sarah. There are no baptism records for a child named Charles Francis Webb or Francis Charles Webb with parents named William & Sarah on Findmypast, FamilySearch or Ancestry, and his death record didn't include his parent's names (at least the index doesn't). There are also no family stories mentioning their names found on any of the above-mentioned websites. It seems to be solely based on the baptism record, which isn't a clear match.