Orm (Workington) FitzKetel (abt. 1070 - abt. 1130)

Born about 1070 in Cumberland, England

Ancestors

Descendants

Died about 1130 at about age 60 in Seaton Hall, Cumberland, England [uncertain]

Biography

Orm (or Orme) married Gunilda by which he acquired the manor of Seaton, below Derwent. He also acquired the towns of Camberton, Crayksothen, and Flemingby.^[1] He was succeed by his son Gospatrick.

A relatively solid date for Orm is deduced from commentary about Gospatrick, son of Orm, reported to have been old in 1174. As Ragg says, ... imagine Gospatrick was born after 1100, but not too long after.

A charter is often reported to prove that Orm was an adult already in 1094. But modern examination of the 3 copies of that charter has led to doubts that he was ever a signatory at all, and if so, then perhaps not originally in 1094. Copy B, which may be the earliest, had the separate names, both common in this time and place, Orm and Ketel. A later copiest seems to have converted to Orm fitz Ketel.^[2]

Orm had a principal residence near Seaton, in the old fortification now known as Burrow Walls, close to Workington.^[3] Quoting a statement of Bouch, citing Denton and Jackson, Bellhouse writes:

There is no reason to question Denton's statement that Orm son of Ketel (ancestor of the Curwen family) was lord of the manor of Seaton, and the builder of a castle there. Writing in 1610, he adds that, "the walls and ruins of his mansion house are ... seen ... at Seaton to this day" (Accompt, mac. = this Society's Tract Series ii, 1887, p. 34). Denton also states (ibid., p. 36) that Orme's great-grandson Patric, who took the name of de Culwen (later Curwen), "pulled down the mannor house at Seaton, and dwelt thenceforth at Workington."

Apart from his son Gospatrick, Orm also had a younger son named Robert. Ragg proposes a pedigree connecting Robert to the later Salkeld and Thornborough families.^[4] I have seen other researchers provide comments on message boards about other children of Orm, but I don't have the notes of those proposals.

Notes

In Washington's reconstruction Christina is daughter of Ivo de Taillebois by Lucy of Mercia and marries Chetell, d. aft. 1120, son of Eldred of Workington. They are parents of Orm who married Gunhilda/Gunnilda. It is through marriage to Christina, daughter of Ivo 1st Baron of Kendal that the Barony of Kendal is brought into the family, not through Eldred.

However according to one line of argument Orm cannot be born too much after 1075, because he married Gunnilda de Dunbar, whose father died in 1074. Since Christina de Taillebois, could not have been born before 1086, as that was when Ivo's 1st wife Judith of Lens died, I would place Orm as the son of an "Unknown First Wife". It is the only way to make these dates work. It also has the added benefit of explaining why Gilbert (a younger son, if he was a son, which we do not know) became the next apparent lord of Kendal, although there is no evidence he ever was, possibly inheriting it through his mother, rather than Orm (the elder son), who was the son of a prior wife.

But the article described above only presents the connection to Taillbois as a speculation, so of course Wikitree should not build upon the speculation in order to set strong opinions that go against other possibilities!

Furthermore, concerning the Barony of Kendal, one of the strongest authorities on that subject claims that it did not exist until a century or more later, and so building theories based on its inheritance also has no strong foundation. See for example "Barony of Kendal," in Wikipedia.

Sources

1. ↑ Hutchinson, W. (1794). The History of the County of Cumberland, pp. 261. Google Books.
2. ↑ Kathleen Thompson (1990) "Monasteries and settlement in Norman Lancashire: unpublished charters of Roger the Poitevin", Transactions of the Historic Society of Lancashire and Cheshire, Vol. 140, online
3. ↑ Bellhouse (1955) The Roman fort at Burrow Walls, near Workington. TCWAAS [1]
   see also: Wikipedia: Seaton, Cumbria#History.
4. ↑ Ragg (1914) Shap and Rosgill and Some Early Owners, TCWAAS, [2]

• FW Ragg (1914) De Culwen, TCWAAS [3]
• W Jackson (1881) The Curwens of Workington Hall and Kindred Families. TCWAAS, [4]
• W Jackson (1881) The Curwens of Workington Hall and Kindred Families. Part II., [5]
• English Heritage/ Cumbria County Council, Archaeological Assessment Report for Workington, [English Heritage/ Cumbria County Council, Archaeological Assessment Report for Workington, [6]
• Register of St Bees (see especially index entry and the long footnote on p.248)

See Also...

• Christian (Christine) de Ireby De_Ireby-2