Using Wrottesley (1905) as a source of pedigrees

Question

Wrottesley's Pedigrees from the Plea Rolls should be used with caution. I have found a number of undocumented people in trees supplied from this source, and at least one tree that was patently impossible when studied in depth.

Answer 1

The freespace page for this source says 'no errata' so perhaps you could add a note there of what you found https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Pedigrees_From_The_Plea_Rolls

Comments

That just means I didn't know the freespace page existed, as I'm sure would be the case for many others. All errors are documented on the profiles as found, if I find the time I'll transfer it to that page. Suffice to say I regard it as a highly unreliable source at this stage.

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For Alan Copeldike, Page 33: I couldn't find this reference on this page.
https://archive.org/details/pedigreesfromple00wrotrich/page/32/mode/2up?view=theater
 

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Too quick for me, I just amended the freespace page. That one was an error in the Visitations of Lincolnshire (1562-4).

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Rob, I don't think they are errata necessarily, it is just that Pedigrees from the Plea Rolls is a very limited source.  It is as its' name suggests, just simple pedigrees and a very brief transcription of the actual case.  Probably best used as a lead to other sources, or to confirm previous research.  On that basis I think it can be a very useful resource.

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I agree John. When I have compared it to the original plea rolls on AALT, I have found it to be reasonably accurate (see below).

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Agreed. Of course I think we all also agree that all sources should be used with caution but this is a pretty good one.

Using legal cases is in itself sometimes a bit tricky. People have been known to lie when large estates were up for grabs. But if we are careful...

Answer 2

Free space profiles often live in the dark if nothing references them.  On person-profiles where a free space profile contributes either something useful or something problematic, it's good to provide a link in the person profile so that the reader is aware of additional information at the free-space profile.

Answer 3

I looked at the original and Wrottesley looks pretty accurate compared with it. One mistake about Lucy. She's actually married to Ralph.

In Wrottesley:
Seward
Ralph
William & Lucy
Symon
John
Thomas                       William
https://archive.org/details/pedigreesfromple00wrotrich/page/76/mode/2up?view=theater

And the original:
William son of John de Spaldyng versus John Dunsel of Peynton, a messuage (etc) which Christian daughter of Adlard gave to William the son of Ralph the son of Seward de Spaldyng in free marriage.
William the son of Ralph & Lucy
Simon the son of William, the son of Ralph & Lucy
John the son of Simon
Thomas the son of John the son of Simon
William the son of John and the brother and heir of Thomas
Thomas (written between lines) who died without heirs
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/E3/CP40no388/aCP40no388fronts/IMG_5140.htm

So the original shows how Simon and Thomas are derived, and that Thomas died without heirs. However, Lucy is shown with the wrong husband.
 

Comments

Thanks, that provides me with useful data. 1. The originals are available to read online, and 2. Another error to fix.

Unfortunately I can't read that script, which I assume is in Latin.

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There's another way to read that. Thomas, who was kicking 40 in 1357, may not have yet produced any heirs, and his holdings as the eldest son would pass to the younger brother upon his demise.

The land-related court cases in 1375 and 1379 could easily have been instigated by sons born after that date.

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Thomas, the son of John, had died without heirs by the time of this lawsuit. 

There was another Thomas Spaldyng, the son of Richard, who was married to Emma. In Feet of Fines:

1375 William, son of Thomas de Spaldyng, and Emma, his wife
http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/fines/abstracts/CP_25_1_142_138.shtml#4
 

And in Common Pleas:
1349 Thomas de Spaldyng, son of Richard de Spaldyng; Emma, his wife

https://waalt.uh.edu/index.php/CP40/358

Some of the Common Pleas rolls have been indexed. Here:
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/Indices/CP40Indices/CP40_Indices.html