Help in searching past my "brick wall".

Question

I need to approach this in  a different way.  Please, someone with experience in genealogy research, assist me in finding the best method of tracing my family beyond my great grandparents.  I know from late 19th century censuses that all of the parents of my great grandparents were born in Ireland.  I also know that my great grandfather was born in New York and died in Connecticut.  His wife was born either in New York or in Ireland and is buried with her husband.  The 1880 census and the 1900 census conflict on her place of birth.  Their first daughter was born, died and was buried in Calvary Cemetery in New York.  Unfortunately she is the sole occupant of the grave and the listed owner has a different first name than her father.  At this point I'm at a dead end.  Any ideas on my next steps?  Many thanks for any information that will help.

Comments

What year was your great grandfather born in New York and what year did he die in CT? What is first name and his surname?  What is the first name and maiden name of his wife? Do you have the year and or the location where they married?

His birth in New York, do you have the county and or the city? Do you have the county and or city in CT where he was buried? Can you name the cemetery where he is buried?

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William Robert Barry (Barry-1390) was my great grandfather.  He was born 20 May 1844 and married to Honora Sullivan (Sullivan 5501) (born 02 August 1845) and he died in Derby CT on 16 May 1891 predeceasing his wife who died in Derby on 14 July 1907.  They and a number of their children are buried in Mount St Peter's Cemetery, Derby CT.  Between US Federal Census records from 1880 and 1900 and information in the family bible I can piece together most of the family from them onward; however, othere than the notation that their parents were born in Ireland I cannot find any further information on their parents' names or their respective dates and where they might be buried.  Thanks for any help.

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Do you know whether his parents were married in Ireland or New York state?  

If William Robert Barry was born in New York his parents would be living there too. Maybe they lived in Tyre Twp, Seneca County, New York.

I'm running out of thoughts, but maybe others at WikiTree will be able to offer insight on how to sort out the puzzle.

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Thank you for your help, Frank.  I am really looking for the best method to "break down the wall" rather than specific information on my ancestors.  I have, to date, telephoned Calvary Cemetery in New York to inquire about my great aunt Ellen Barry (b 1867, d 1875).  The person answering the phone was very helpful in that she gave me the information on the grave location and that "Nellie" Barry was the sole occupant of the grave whose owner is listed as John Barry.  I had originally hoped to find that she was buried in a family plot and that perhaps her grandparents or other family member could be traced from there but it seems it is another dead end.  Her family relocated to Derby Connecticut where most of them are now buried.  The reason I believe it is her grave is that Nellie Barry was buried two days after Ellen died, in April 1875.  Apparently her name is also engraved on the family monument in Mount St. Peter's Cemetery, Derby CT.  Most of that information tallies with records in the family bible except I don't know who "John Barry", the grave owner might be.

Answer 1

This census record looks like a good fit for William Barry.  Parents are Robert and Ellen Barry.  The record doesn't list the birthplace.  But the original does.  I would try to see if you can find any of them in CT. 

"New York State Census, 1855," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K67C-948 : 19 November 2014), William Barry in household of Robert Barry, E.D. 2, Ward 12, New York City, New York, New York, United States; count clerk offices, New York; FHL microfilm 1,018,659.

 

Comments

Unfortunately, William and Ellen are nowhere to be found.  But the dates for Honora and young Robert are a perfect match, down to the month. 

1870 census: 

VIEW

 

Name:	Honora Barry
Age in 1870:	24
Birth Year:	abt 1846
Birthplace:	Ireland
Home in 1870:	New York Ward 12 District 5, New York, New York
Race:	White
Gender:	Female
Post Office:	New York City
Value of real estate:	View image
Household Members:	Name Age Dinnis Sullivan 55 Honora Sullivan 50 Honora Barry 24 Robert Barry 7/12

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This seems the best fit so far.  William's first children were named Ellen and Robert.  The ages fit and perhaps I can make some headway from there.  Thank you very much for your help.

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Honora was William Robert Barry's wife.  She was born Sullivan and married in 1866.  If the Robert Barry listed here is actually William then it's possible they lived with her family for a while.  I'll have to dig deeper.  Again, thanks for the help.

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I think the Robert Barry here would be Honora's child--seven months of age,

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Yes.  That was my thinking also.  Roberts profile lists his birth date as Oct, 1896.  And the census includes his birth month as Oct.  William may be off working or went back to Ireland for more kin.  But where is Ellen?  Unless her data is uncertain.

You're welcome and good luck!

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Also, while researching this I found his will on Ancestry (I think).  But he refers to his wife as Anna.  Are the names interchangeable?  I don't recall it offering clues to any relationships.  He refers to his children as "leaving it to his wife to do right by them".  He seemed a well-spoken gentlemen.  It belongs to William Barry of Derby.  He signed it on the day before his death (May 15, 1891).  As if he knew he was dying.    

The link is below if you're able.  To make certain it is him.  I have no horse in this race.  Just responding to the post.  Let me know if you want me to upload.  

http://interactive.ancestry.com/9049/007629627_00318?pid=293518

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I'm fairly certain of Ellen Barry's dates of birth and death and she would have been three years old in 1870.  If this is the same Honora Sullivan Barry as my great grandmother it might be possible that on the day of the census she was visiting her parents with Robert.  Based on the 1855 New York census entries, William's family seemed to own a boarding house so perhaps he and Ellen were with them on the day.  I can't open the 1870 census without joining ancestry.com so I can only speculate based on what I see here.  I also found a Catherine Sullivan in the 1855 New York Census who is listed with her two children, Eugene and Honora, the daughter eleven years at the time.  They had been in New York for six years and came from Ireland.  I cannot confirm which of these Honoras if either is my relative.

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Also, you may have noticed that the 1855 census for the Barry's was taken in the same ward in New York City (ward 12?). as the Sullivan's 1870 census.  That proximity may mean something.  Would you like me to upload the 1870 census to Honora's profile?  You can always remove it if we are mistaken.  Or shall I just transcribe the info with the source?

Did you get a chance to read the comment above about William Berry's will?

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Thank you, Mary.  That is interesting.  Regarding the reference to Anna, I don't recognise it as a version of Honora but they did have a daughter, Anna, born in 1874.  I cannot see the will via your link as I'm not a member of Ancestry.com but if you have more details I'd be interested.  Thanks again.

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Could Honora have gone by the nickname Anna, or possibly a middle name, to differentiate her from her mother with the same name?

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That is possible if that was her family (Dinnis and Honora Sullivan).  If she was Catherine Sullivan's daughter it is less likely.

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K67X-P8J

Please see my comment above in reference to a nickname.

Thank you for your help.

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I will attempt to upload the will to William's profile so all can view it.  If it's not to large.  His wishes are listed on just one page.  But I think there are several other papers attached to the file (not sure).  I don't know how to isolate the page.  I will try to upload now.  

If I don't succeed...I will email you the file if you want to private message me an email address.

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Much appreciated.  Many thanks, Mary.  I shall pm my e-mail to you in case it's needed.

Answer 2

My advice is to turn Frank loose with his sledge hammer and pick axe, known to all of us as his uncanny (to me) ability to knock down the brick walls we present him with.  Once he gets you started, past where you are now stuck, you may be able to trace further back.

Comments

Thank you form your reply.  Who is Frank?

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Frank Gill.  You already have communicated with him.  It looks like you have some other leads.  Good luck on your search.