Trying to find a Grtx3 Grandfather in Glasgow, Scotland

Question

I'm trying to track down an ancestor of mine, George Adam, who is reputed to have lost his fortune in shipping and to have owned a castle (family lore). The only record I have of him is that one George Adam died in 1895 at the age of 64 in the district of Alderston, City of Glasgow. He may be my Great x 3 Grandfather. Another George Adam is recorded as having lived at 11 Alexandria Place, Partick, Glasgow, who married a daughter of William Moir b. 1813, but I don't know if they are one and the same [Source: Moir Genealogy, 1913]. This is a stab in the dark here: I am newly embarking on a family genealogy. My dad and his dad are also named George Adam and come from Glasgow. If I answer this, I can add more profiles. Any help appreciated. -- Chris Adam, Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada. Adam-1498.

Answer 1

Your Dad George Adam,need his birth date and where,His father George also need his birth date and where.I will research it back.

Comments

Wayne, Chris has provided these details in the Wikitree profiles linked to his own entry. Chris' father was born 7 Feb 1916 at Glasgow (Adam-1499) and grandfather George Adam was born c1890 possibly in England (Adam-1500).

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By the information Chris has posted so far, I am guessing that the only document for the details of generations before his own parents on the Adam side of the tree, is his parents' English marriage certificate. That would provide the names of his four grandparents (although earlier English marriage documents would just give details of the bride and groom's father (and not the mother), but wouldn't give any more information about earlier generations. We need the details from the Adam-Moir marriage.

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I think he means Anderston (district) instead of Alderston.

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You might find a connection between your Unknown Moir and that of the English celebrity called Vic Reeves. He has Moir ancestry too.

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Father (Adam-1499), Birth source: 1916, NRS Ref. 562/ 78 in Eastwood District. Birth index for that period does not include mother's maiden name.

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Marriage Source - George Adam/Helen Wilson Mark, 1914 NRS Ref. 501/ 218 Old/West Kilpatrick District.

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Death Source - Helen Wilson Adam (nee Mark), 1975 NRS Ref. 473/ 641 at Stirling District. Cross search surnames Adam and Mark. According to death index mother's maiden name is Gibbon. Aet (this is an abbreviation for Aetat which is turn is a Latin word meaning "age at death" is) 89y. So born c1886.

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Marriage for Mark-Gibbon. No records in Scotland, but found this in England & Wales Marriage Index. Sep Qtr 1883, Barrow-in-Furness, 8e, 1160. Groom - James Morrison Mark. Bride - Isabella Gibbon. Barrow-in-Furness is Cumbrian registration district close to Scottish border.

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Only Moir/Adam marriage in Scotland, where groom's forename is George. Groom- George Adam. Bride - Isabella Moir 1879 NRS Ref. 364/ 5 at Kincardine (Perthshire) District.

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Death for Isabella Adam (nee Moir). Source 1931 NRS Ref. 573/1 301 Paisley (Renfrew) District. Aet 79y. Estimated birth year 1852. Statutory records for Scotland start 1855 with some records from 1854. Need to search OPR collection for births/baptisms.

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George Adam,Born Sept,19 1894,Burgh Glasgow, Father Thomas Wilson

Adam,Mother Lizzie Adam. Find on Scotlands People,it is a paid site.Do you want me to go further back.???

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Thank you, Wayne, for your help. I did not expect such an outpouring of help from my little request. I've been doing this for about 10 days now, I'm so new at this that I'm going to have to take some time to digest all of this new data.

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Yes, Anderston. Input error, the fault of the keyboard, of course.

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Thank you, Andrew, for all your help. I didn't expect so many replies. It will take me some time to digest this info and the methods/sources used. I'm guessing I will have to shell out some dollars to get documents. As a general guide, how much does one have to pay per year?

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Thank you, Wayne. No need to go further back until I have digested all this info and verified it. Wouldn't that cost you money if you did research for me?

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I am a retired Geneology Researcher.I offer my free services to pay back

all of those who helped me in learning the Geneology Research game.They

helped me be what i am today.

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See my comment in your reply to Kathleen. As for verification be careful, there might be a difference between what we have said/found and what your family records say. For example one of the people you have entered died in 1975 and not 1980. There are no other matching records so it has to be right. It would be best to modify the profiles with the dates, places of registration and the source. NRS is an abbreviation for National Records of Scotland. The first three digits eg 564 or the first three digits/two digits eg 456/07 is a registration district (RD) in Scotland, then there is a space separating the last set of digits which is the page. So 436/ 72 means page 72 in a book maintained by RD 436, and 436/2 3 means page 3 in a book maintained by RD 436/2. Any source above with NRS comes from Scotlands People "Advanced People Search - Statutory Records (1855-2017)" but there are many more categories for which to run searches.

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"Vic Reeves" is a stage name. The man's real name is James Roderick Moir.

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Hi Wayne, do you have a Scotlands People subscription or do you just purchase credits each time? I am just asking this so that Chris knows that subscriptions are available and it costs no extra to download a couple of additional files as long as it is within the subscription period. Obviously I am not suggesting that Chris purchase a subscription himself merely that they are available (or used to be) and other people who have purchased them for their own research can be kind enough to look up information that we need beyond searching the Birth, Death and Marriage Indices.

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Wayne, thank you for your help. Much appreciated. I see I have a lot of work to do, not only searching but also keeping it organized.

Answer 2

A great site for Scottish research is ScotlandsPeople - it's pay per view on the documents but they have the full image for the censuses (most places only have transcripts for the Scottish censuses), and images for both the official registrations and parish registered for births, deaths, and marriages.

Comments

Thank you, Kathleen, I know of that site. I balked at paying anything after they wanted to charge me 25 lb for a document.

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Chris, you only pay 25 GBP for a document that is outside of the historic period - Deaths (less than 50 years old), Marriages (less than 75 years old), Births (less than 100 years old). To view historic documents is about GBP 1 per view. It is also free to search. I found all the records just by using clever searches that's why I didn't do the males as they only have 1 surname. But women have two if they marry and you can search for a person with multiple surnames.

You will see I found a number of sources for you on your Pomeroy side by adding a public comment on their profile. I did this rather than simply edit the profiles because you are new and may want to have a go at doing some of this yourself. Like Wayne I help people gratis. The genealogy community is very 'giving'.

Answer 3

Chris,  Scotland's People as has already been suggested is the official vital records of Scotland  Civil Registration began 1855.  Prior to that Old Church Records commonly called OPRs for the Kirks are the primary sources.  Realize that you had to pay for your info to be included so there are missing people.  Additionally, there are census records starting 1841.  Birth data was often rounded to within 5 years so don't get too hung up if a birth is off by less than 5 years.  Other than that you are going to need to look at things like cemetery inscriptions, land records, poll taxes and the like.   There are historic societies throughout Scotland that might help with local data.   

GENUKI Scotland has a lot of really useful links  http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/

Hope this helps!

Comments

Thank you, Laura. I am aware of those sites, but I haven't had time to check them out closely.

Answer 4

Here is the SPeople record for the person whom you mentioned died at Anderston.

ADAM

GEORGE

64

1895

644/10 829

Anderston

Legend for above.

Surname, Forenames, Age at Death, RD (NRS code), Page number, RD

The death index indicates he died at 64y which also agrees with your own source. A connection between this person and anyone in your tree published so far has yet to be established.

We can look for this person in the 1891 Census to see whether we can find his wife's name.

Answer 5

Here are the 4 options,

ADAM	GEORGE	1891	M	60	646/1 4/ 10	Plantation	Lanark
ADAM	GEORGE	1891	M	60	188/ 1/ 6	Drumblade	Aberdeen
ADAM	GEORGE	1891	M	58	573/ 64/ 13	Paisley	Renfrew
ADAM	GEORGE	1891	M	60	282/4 21/ 42	St Andrew	Angus

Legend for above

Surname, Forename, Year, Gender, Approx. Age, RD code, Schedule/Household Number, RD, County.

Note two are near Glasgow (Lanarkshire), Records 1 and 3, but given the connection with shipping I'm tipping it's the Paisley one. Plus one of the records I gave you earlier was also registered at Paisley.

So now do a search for people with surname Adam in 1891 Census in Paisley RD. Use identical Schedule/Household number to find people living in the same household.

Comments

There were 441 people with the surname Adam living in Paisley in 1891 (18 pages of records) and I've browsed through them, and the only person who is also living with the same Ref. 573/64/13 is

ADAM, MARGARET, 56, 573/ 64/13 Paisley Renfrew

So without paying for the document, we can tell that the George Adam who was 58 years old living in Paisley had a wife called Margaret who was two years younger.

Now check the Marriage Index to see what Margaret's maiden name was (if the marriage occured after 1855). Using an estimated age at marriage of 25y, in this George's case that would occur in 1858, so you might just get lucky. If he married young then his a record of his bans can be found in the Old Parish Records (as Laura has indicated) section of the Scotlands People website.

In earlier Censuses you might be able to find their children.

We also cannot discount the Planatation, Lanark entry yet.

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There's only 1 entry that matches in the Statutory Marriages period (onwards of 1855) to a Margaret Forrest, but the St. Nicholas RD is in Aberdeen town which is geographically a long way from Paisley, and more likely to relate to the other George Adams of similar age found living in Aberdeen (entry 2 out of the 4 from memory). It's not impossible that someone who was originally from Aberdeen moved to Paisley.

ADAM

GEORGE

FORREST

MARGARET

1855

168/1 1

St Nicholas

As a general rule in Scotland and England marriages tend to occur at the bride's parish church or somewhere else in the town associated with the bride, and if the groom is not also from the same local area, he can travel a significant distance to marry at the bride's church. So it could be that it's the Forrest family that comes from Aberdeen and not necessarily the Adams.

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Whereas there are several options in the Church Registers (1845-1855) but this one at Greenock looks promising,

ADAM

GEORGE

MARGARET STEVENSON FR2476 (FR2476)

25/08/1848

564/3

90 82

Greenock Old or West

Greenock is a town located in the same county as Paisley and also on the River Clyde. It is also heavily associated with shipping and people in the shipping industry.