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Richard Aschenald (abt. 1020)

Richard Aschenald
Born about [location unknown]
Son of [father unknown] and [mother unknown]
[sibling(s) unknown]
[spouse(s) unknown]
Descendants descendants
Died [date unknown] [location unknown]
Problems/Questions Profile manager: Andrew Lancaster private message [send private message]
Profile last modified | Created 19 Sep 2013
This page has been accessed 3,366 times.
Research suggests that this person may never have existed. See the text for details.

Biography

This person probably did not exist.

  • It is difficult to reconcile the first name Richard (A French name) with an English (Anglo-Saxon/Scandinavian) man who lived and died in England before the Norman Conquest of 1066.
  • Alric (or Ailric), Richard's supposed son, is well-studied by modern scholars, who say that Ailric is the earliest traceable member of that family.[1]

The first mention of Richard Aschenald, discovered so far, is in Leland's Itinerary, written centuries later in about 1540 - "The castel, town and landes about Brokenbridg longgid afore the Conquest to one Richard Aschenald. Richard had Ailrik and he had Swane, of whom cam Adam, of Adam cam 2 doughtters, wherof one of them was maried to Galfride Neville, the other to Thomas Burge"[2]

Although Ailric, Swein, Adam and his 2 daughters can be confirmed by primary sources (although the names of the sons-in-law are incorrect), there appear to be no earlier sources that mention Richard Aschenald.

Although it is possible that Aschenald has mutated over the centuries and was originally an Anglo-Saxon name or nickname starting with Æsc... [3]

Sources

  1. ↑ Hugh M. Thomas, "A Yorkshire Thegn and his Descendants after the Conquest", Medieval Prosopography, Vol. 8, No. 2 (Autumn 1987), pp. 1-22. https://www.jstor.org/stable/44947023
  2. ↑ Leland, John. The Itinery of John Leland in or about the years 1535-1543. Parts I to III, edited by Lucy Toulmin Smith. London: George Bell and Sons. 1907. p, 40. Digital Image. Internet Archive https://archive.org/details/itineraryjohnle02lelagoog : viewed 15 January 2017.
  3. ↑ Thanks to Kirk Hess




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Comments: 6

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I don't think it is good to trash competitor sites.

I also don't agree with disconnection from Alaric. Just because we don't have the sources that the 1540 source cites, it doesn't mean it was fraudulent. At this point, it's the best info we have, and perhaps the best we will ever get from that time.

It should be sufficient to label him as the "uncertain" father of Alaric, as has been done.

posted by Steve Selbrede
Very basic problem: Richard is not an Anglo-Saxon name. Secondary problem: we have no strong source, but to justify something so surprising we need a strong source don't we?
posted by Andrew Lancaster
If we have no source then this profile should not be connected to real people. That's the policy and it is the only sensible policy. The information given about this person is impossible and strange, probably just a typical fraud like we find all the time in old books. The burden of proof has to be on anyone arguing to keep it connected.
posted by Andrew Lancaster
Fair enough. That is why the pages of all geni sites are clogged up with meaningless records.
posted by Clive Kenyon
I don't like the idea of deleting profiles just because there is uncertainty in the record. I think it is better to leave the profile, add "uncertain" to Alaric's parentage, and leave a note in the profile to explain the reasons for the controversy.

I adopted this profile awhile ago, so I don't know the details of how it was created.

posted by Steve Selbrede
Other than Leland there is nothing to support this person having ever existed.

Leland only gives his source as that Ashchenald was documented as being a land owner around the Pontefract area pre-Conquest. This is not born out by records of PASE and the Open Domesday Project. Nor is he mentioned in local historical records other than the links back to Leland.

Unless someone can come up with corroboration of his existence I would suggest deleting this person from the records.

posted by Clive Kenyon

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Categories: Uncertain Existence